Pain and ASC derived from it in ritual context

[Lilrodrigues]

I've never had any contact with Pain in a ritualistic set, not unless you consider activation of sigils a ritual, which i do not, not necessarily and certainly not in the way i do it. I also never had the experience of reading on the subject extensively, merely a reference or two, with the exception of shamanic account.

So my questions are the following, if you ever used pain in a ritualistic context, how do you do it? Is that process reserved for a specific part of the ritual (energy build up, preparation for invocation et cetera) or do you use it throughout the ritual? Is it a solitary or group thing? How do people react? What can you expect?


Thanks for your time.

[[V]]

death posture is always fun.

[EntwinedScylla]

There's an entire branch developing in the Neopagan movement dubbed "Sado-shamanism" or "The Ordeal Path" (depending on who you're talking to). Most of that holds to the Safe/Sane/Consentual proactices of the BDSM community, or at the very least "NPD" (No permanant damage).

My own Trad tests warrior/guardian types for specific initiations by scourging. It's essentially a test to determine who can hold the proverbial line, despite whatever may be going on externally.

[Toki Wartooth]

I recently used it for the first time...only pain wasn't really the goal or anything; it's just a "side effect" of what we did. 3 out of 6 of us decided we wanted to use our own blood to put on our bindrunes...the staining makes it very personal, so that our energy definitely (and in more than one way) is transferred onto the runes. Plus, our "entity" there -- our bindrune -- has some of us in them, as we have our bindrunes with us in our lives somewhere, for whatever amount of time.

The pain was just in the finger pricks. It wasn't a big deal, at least to those of us who did it. At least one person in there was obviously very uncomfortable with having any needles whatsoever in her.

[Lupabitch]

I've used BDSM in magic extensively, particularly using pain to initiate an ASC while under the protection of a top. I don't have a single specific way of doing so; it's usually situational both with the person I'm with and the purpose. The method and timing of the pain is also situational, and often has less to do with the exact magic than it does with the flow of the scene overall. Generally I've only done this with one partner at a time, and never solitary--the interaction with another person(s) is crucial for me.

if you want to find out more, head to http://www.kinkmagic.com; there are some essays and links, as well as info on the book I cowrote.

[Newbieoffractals]

Personally, pain creeps me out. Artemis does seem to like blood sacrifices when I've offered them to her, but it's not that hard to get blood without pain. A needle prick, or a little movement with a razor blade on your finger tip isn't painful, and will produce the needed blood. However, like all strong emotions, I could see it as being deeply spiritual. When my fingers are bleeding from playing an instrument for hours and wearing off my callouses, I do feel a deep satisfaction, despite the pain. When I run for a while till my legs are in severe pain, I feel the same way. Though, I don't enjoy pain in it of itself, I could see how a person could use it in a ritual. I personally don't think it would be right for me, but I do see how it might be useful, provided one uses logic and reason for it. Trying to kill yourself in the name of your religion isn't generally a good idea, and screams cult to me, at least in the modern era. But, NPD and SSC stuff is the limit that I'd think a modern religion could use. (And yes, I do know various other religions in the past did do some pretty scary pain stuff. But, I don't think that that is a good idea in the modern era, to risk one's own life.)

[green aventurine]

I also never had the experience of reading on the subject extensively, merely a reference or two, with the exception of shamanic account.

I'm guessing you've come across Kaldera's stuff but I thought I'd mention it anyway in case.

So my questions are the following, if you ever used pain in a ritualistic context, how do you do it? Is that process reserved for a specific part of the ritual (energy build up, preparation for invocation et cetera) or do you use it throughout the ritual? Is it a solitary or group thing? How do people react? What can you expect?



Can't help you personally, it's not really my thing. Interesting thread though.

[[V]]

Learning to use pain in a ritual requires you to develop a different perspective on pain. The pain endured by preforming the Death Posture for example can be quite excruciating.

That pain that you feel can be viewed as pure energy. This energy can be redirected and transformed into an entirely different feeling.
Its not a matter of effort, but a matter of perspective. Once you really internalize this, you will be able to slide a sewing needle through your hand and watch calmly.

The 'energy' you once experienced as pain will present itself as a feeling of pure 'being'. If being able to endure massive amounts of pain sounds like a pretty sweet deal, then I recommend perusing this. Approach pain not with the intent to endure it, but the intent to change your perspective on it. Eventually you'll find a way to tolerate/enjoy it.

[EntwinedScylla]

I'm one of those people who feels an over-arching sense of wholeness if I've been working my fingers to the bone digging in the garden, hauling rocks for landscaping, or putting up drywall. While I'm not "into" pain, as such, I am very into and very concerned with the "aliveness" of my body. And ensuring that I don't deny a vital part of my existence simply because of an unfavorable mental response. Ensuring I do not neglect a much-needed part of myself simply because it asks something uncomfortable of me.

Pain, parasites, infection, exhaustion, exertion, hunting/gathering, dancing, screaming, singing... are all intimate parts of what the human experience was for the majority of our existence. Our technology has become advanced, but our bodies still remember (and I think long for) some of those experiences.

Pain, just like sheer exhaustion from activity, "makes room". In ritual the experience of pain can drive out other sensations, push the mind into a very different state, "make room" for an experience to happen, and make room for the power that's "out there" to get into our bodies and lives to begin working toward positive change. Pain was formerly a very nautral, healthy, part of our existence. One we have ran screaming from since the industrial revolution.

I think that, at least once in every person's life, they need to be taken to the very edge of pain that they can tolerate. Be it through an accidental, or carefully guided, experience. It teaches you what you actually -can- take, and puts a stubbed toe or common cold in stark perspective. In the same vein I think each person needs to do at least one day of hard labor. Break rocks, haul water, muck out a paddock, weed a garden, harvest your own food (according to what their body is actually -able- to do).

Many people would be shocked at how -different- (bigger, more open, more capable) they feel after being down even that small slice of an Ordeal Path.

[Lilrodrigues]

That would be ideal. I wouldn't mind at all to trade one day of office work with one day of hard labour :)

I'm not interacting much in my own thread because i simply have nowhere to go from, but i'm finding your replies very nice and thanks for the references lupabitch.