David19
February 14th, 2010, 08:50 PM
I just found this article on Gus DiZerega's blog, and found it really interesting, and thought he made a lot of good points (though I don't agree with all of them).
From here (http://blog.beliefnet.com/apagansblog/2010/02/universal-polytheism.html#more):
This is a small essay that tries to show how polytheism is universal in all theistic religious traditions. I pick Christianity to make my case, but I think Islam or Judaism would also 'work.' In the process those who wonder why I sometimes defend Christianity and sometimes criticize it will see why that is so.
For thousands of years people lived in a world populated by many spiritual forces, and did not think of them as all being subordinate to or in revolt against some central divine king. Today many scholars see their awareness as a first primitive step towards more sophisticated spiritual understandings, culminating in monotheism. To them, we Pagans seem a kind of romantic throwback or evolutionary degeneration. Even liberal and tolerant scholars of religion and theologians who are often friendly to non-Western Pagans often have a hard time taking NeoPagans seriously. After all, modern Westerners should know better. (Happily this dismissive attitude is improving, but is still prominent.)
I want to present an argument that this common attitude is wrong.
Anyone knowledgeable of Western history knows hundreds of years of religious war and well over a thousand years of religious persecution characterized Europe dominated by Biblical monotheism. Most of the killing was Christian killing Christian after they had eliminated competing faiths, and here is a puzzle I want to explore. Why so much killing when everyone initially started out agreeing on a single text? (Even parts of the initial text were eventually rejected by some, such as Luther's rejection of the Epistle of James.)
I think this puzzle is solved when looked at from a Pagan perspective. From this vantage point, when taken inclusively Christianity is a polytheistic religion. It is only monotheistic when we consider a single church or doctrine as sanding for the religion as a whole.
The Catholic God has little in common with the Southern Baptist one beyond a claim to universal domination. That is what "God Almighty" means. More then one such Baptist has said the Catholics are serving the Devil. Many Pentecostals say the Pope is the "Whore of Babylon" described in Revelations. Many nonPentecostals say Pentecostals channel demons when speaking in tongues. More than one Catholic has said the Baptists are going to Hell. All are sincere. All have sincerely different conceptions of their God and what He desires from them.
The God of some Missouri Synod Lutherans does not want His devotees praying with non Christians, not even in Jesus' name. Many such Lutherans filed charges against a Lutheran pastor who prayed at an interfaith event after 9-11, because his act could be interpreted as granting legitimacy to other beliefs. The national second vice president of the Missouri Synod argued "to participate with pagans in an interfaith service and, additionally, to give the impression that there might be more than one god, is an extremely serious offense against the God of the Bible."
Other Christian denominations, Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox alike, were not so bothered. Their God was more accommodating and perhaps more secure. The Lutheran God seems quite different in important respects from the God these other denominations honor.
For some Christians God is "the God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours." Such were the views of Jonathan Edwards, America's most famous Calvinist theologian.
There's more to it than that, but, personally, I really did like this blog post, and, in a way, I think it makes some sense, I also like reading Pagan or Polytheistic views of other religions, including of the Monotheistic Religions. I know there are some people who say "a Pagan or Polytheist can't believe in a Monotheist deity", but, that only works if you 1) accept that there's only one God, and 2) deny that the incredibly vast spiritual and mystical expereinces reported by Christians, Jews and Muslims (especially Jews who've been around for thousands of years) are somehow "invalid", which, if you do feel that way, then, IMO, that's no better than a Christian Fundamentalist, who feels their way "is the only way" and spits on the experiences of others.
It reminds me of a program my Mum worked on ages ago now, which was set in Israel, it was about weddings, and it featured a man, who may have been from a Reform Jewish background or an Ultra-Orthodox background, who was going to marry a woman from a different sect of Judaism (again, she was either Reform or Ultra-Orthodox, I can't remember which one was from which background), and, basically, the father of the groom wouldn't attend (actually, come to think of it, the man was the Ultra-Orthodox one) 'cause his son was getting marred in a Reform ceremony and the Ultra-Orthodox, despite being the minority in Israel, do wield quite a bit of influence (although, that doesn't stop Israel from being a very open society, and being more accepting of LGBT people than most other countries, including the U.S.), the guy said, unstandably upset at his father, that he doesn't worship the same God as them, which might be true.
The only parts I don't agree with Gus on are his views of the Aztec Gods:
To me the Aztecs are a clear example of a culture connected to demonic energies masquerading as divine
That's just 'cause he doesn't understand the role sacrifice played in the Aztec cosmology (and, I've seen some other Pagans who view the Aztecs in a similar way, who seem to think, any culture that practiced or practiced human sacrifice wasn't "valid" or a "true religion", which is just, frankly, racism, IMO).
That said, I did like the rest of the article, but, what are your thoughts?, do you think there is more than one God in Christianity, or other Monotheistic religions, like Islam or Judaism?, do you think it makes sense from a Polytheistic viewpoint?.
Anyway, I'd really like your views, 'cause I enjoyed the article.
From here (http://blog.beliefnet.com/apagansblog/2010/02/universal-polytheism.html#more):
This is a small essay that tries to show how polytheism is universal in all theistic religious traditions. I pick Christianity to make my case, but I think Islam or Judaism would also 'work.' In the process those who wonder why I sometimes defend Christianity and sometimes criticize it will see why that is so.
For thousands of years people lived in a world populated by many spiritual forces, and did not think of them as all being subordinate to or in revolt against some central divine king. Today many scholars see their awareness as a first primitive step towards more sophisticated spiritual understandings, culminating in monotheism. To them, we Pagans seem a kind of romantic throwback or evolutionary degeneration. Even liberal and tolerant scholars of religion and theologians who are often friendly to non-Western Pagans often have a hard time taking NeoPagans seriously. After all, modern Westerners should know better. (Happily this dismissive attitude is improving, but is still prominent.)
I want to present an argument that this common attitude is wrong.
Anyone knowledgeable of Western history knows hundreds of years of religious war and well over a thousand years of religious persecution characterized Europe dominated by Biblical monotheism. Most of the killing was Christian killing Christian after they had eliminated competing faiths, and here is a puzzle I want to explore. Why so much killing when everyone initially started out agreeing on a single text? (Even parts of the initial text were eventually rejected by some, such as Luther's rejection of the Epistle of James.)
I think this puzzle is solved when looked at from a Pagan perspective. From this vantage point, when taken inclusively Christianity is a polytheistic religion. It is only monotheistic when we consider a single church or doctrine as sanding for the religion as a whole.
The Catholic God has little in common with the Southern Baptist one beyond a claim to universal domination. That is what "God Almighty" means. More then one such Baptist has said the Catholics are serving the Devil. Many Pentecostals say the Pope is the "Whore of Babylon" described in Revelations. Many nonPentecostals say Pentecostals channel demons when speaking in tongues. More than one Catholic has said the Baptists are going to Hell. All are sincere. All have sincerely different conceptions of their God and what He desires from them.
The God of some Missouri Synod Lutherans does not want His devotees praying with non Christians, not even in Jesus' name. Many such Lutherans filed charges against a Lutheran pastor who prayed at an interfaith event after 9-11, because his act could be interpreted as granting legitimacy to other beliefs. The national second vice president of the Missouri Synod argued "to participate with pagans in an interfaith service and, additionally, to give the impression that there might be more than one god, is an extremely serious offense against the God of the Bible."
Other Christian denominations, Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox alike, were not so bothered. Their God was more accommodating and perhaps more secure. The Lutheran God seems quite different in important respects from the God these other denominations honor.
For some Christians God is "the God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours." Such were the views of Jonathan Edwards, America's most famous Calvinist theologian.
There's more to it than that, but, personally, I really did like this blog post, and, in a way, I think it makes some sense, I also like reading Pagan or Polytheistic views of other religions, including of the Monotheistic Religions. I know there are some people who say "a Pagan or Polytheist can't believe in a Monotheist deity", but, that only works if you 1) accept that there's only one God, and 2) deny that the incredibly vast spiritual and mystical expereinces reported by Christians, Jews and Muslims (especially Jews who've been around for thousands of years) are somehow "invalid", which, if you do feel that way, then, IMO, that's no better than a Christian Fundamentalist, who feels their way "is the only way" and spits on the experiences of others.
It reminds me of a program my Mum worked on ages ago now, which was set in Israel, it was about weddings, and it featured a man, who may have been from a Reform Jewish background or an Ultra-Orthodox background, who was going to marry a woman from a different sect of Judaism (again, she was either Reform or Ultra-Orthodox, I can't remember which one was from which background), and, basically, the father of the groom wouldn't attend (actually, come to think of it, the man was the Ultra-Orthodox one) 'cause his son was getting marred in a Reform ceremony and the Ultra-Orthodox, despite being the minority in Israel, do wield quite a bit of influence (although, that doesn't stop Israel from being a very open society, and being more accepting of LGBT people than most other countries, including the U.S.), the guy said, unstandably upset at his father, that he doesn't worship the same God as them, which might be true.
The only parts I don't agree with Gus on are his views of the Aztec Gods:
To me the Aztecs are a clear example of a culture connected to demonic energies masquerading as divine
That's just 'cause he doesn't understand the role sacrifice played in the Aztec cosmology (and, I've seen some other Pagans who view the Aztecs in a similar way, who seem to think, any culture that practiced or practiced human sacrifice wasn't "valid" or a "true religion", which is just, frankly, racism, IMO).
That said, I did like the rest of the article, but, what are your thoughts?, do you think there is more than one God in Christianity, or other Monotheistic religions, like Islam or Judaism?, do you think it makes sense from a Polytheistic viewpoint?.
Anyway, I'd really like your views, 'cause I enjoyed the article.