The loss of Christianity

[Tobias]

Things have changed for me this week. For the longest time now, I have been splitting the difference between Paganism and Christianity. But with a revelation about my God on Monday night, I can no longer call myself a Christian. He who I thought was the Christian God, apparently was a union between Apollon and Zeus. And several others from time to time, as the situation required. My link to Christianity has always been the belief that I'm following a God who can *best* be described as the Christian God, which apparently is not the case. Not anymore.

It's been a quiet week, a good one really. I'm just taking my time to absorb this. I've grown tired of juggling two wildly different religions, trying to figure out how Gods who supposedly hate each other are working together in just *my* case! It's a comfort to know, and something I have felt for some time now, that the Olympian Gods chose me way back when, and simply put up with the fact that I was Christian -- and worked with me accordingly. At least, sometimes I knew this. The rest of the time I was struggling with alternative theories that never seemed to pan out.

It feels very strange to not be Christian anymore. I do not know what the future holds. I can't imagine how the people I know will react. I'm not even sure how to tell some of the pagan acquaintances I have that know me as Christian. But it is peaceful, very peaceful! Knowing the truth is always better than not. And I haven't had to tell anyone yet, besides my wife, who took it quite well (I think maybe she could see it coming? lol)

Anyway, about now I'm wishing I would have been nicer to some of the pagans I've met over the years. I never expected to end up on this side of the fence!

[john.a]

But with a revelation about my God on Monday night, I can no longer call myself a Christian. He who I thought was the Christian God, apparently was a union between Apollon and Zeus... My link to Christianity has always been the belief that I'm following a God who can *best* be described as the Christian God, which apparently is not the case. Not anymore.

What do you mean by the "Christian God?"

[Tobias]

What do you mean by the "Christian God?"

Much of the time Christians pay lip service to a God who they expect no response from. I felt that I had encountered the real Being behind the stories and the myths. Or at least, the God who responds and is there when Christians look for more (Charismatics, at least.)

He was the God that was there for me when I prayed, and also when I didn't. Christianity was the medium through which I knew Him, so I couldn't identify Him as anyone else. But now that's changed.

[Solya]

I can relate. I struggled for many years trying to connect my Catholic upbringing and ideas with some of the deeper and more profound experiences I had with particularly Egyptian and Norse deities. My belief is that these deities have always chosen to work with me and kept me close to their hearts no matter what life I chose for myself at the time.

I went through the whole process of Catholicism, even including confirmation at the age of 11, with very firm hands guiding me. I have never doubted that I was cared for and loved by whatever higher power was present in my life. My link to the Catholic faith still exists in the sense that I love the rituals, the stories and the mysticism. I believe that this will never fully go away, because it is the religion of my ancestors and the religion I committed to as a child. I can see the good in it and I still love to return to a church every once in a while just to recollect my thoughts and feelings.

However, my path has blossomed from its Catholic roots into something new. The connection I felt as a child to deities outside of Christianity has transformed into a true calling. They have been with me all my life, but only came to me when I asked for a response that I could never be able to doubt. They came to me when I was lost and hurt and took my hand to guide me.

It is absolutely wonderful to hear someone else describe what I felt all those years ago. I tried so hard to unite two things that were different in my mind that I could not comprehend the fact that they were one and the same in my heart. The calling you receive will never change, but it will take on whatever form is most welcome to you at the time. To have the veil lift from those insecurities of juggling two faiths is probably the most profound experience we can ever have.

[Meadhbh]

Welcome to the club. Really though its always good to find out what truth works for you. Some times its what you think it'll be other times its not. But whatever it turns out to be getting there always prooves to be an interesting if not a bumpy ride.

[Chicory_Witch]

Congratulations on finding YOUR truth. It's a beautiful feeling. :)

[Tobias]

Funny. Now that I've posted this, I'm having second thoughts.

I think I'm putting too much weight into this one experience. Perhaps my conclusions are skewed by what I *want* to happen? It would be really nice to not have to be split between Christianity and Paganism. But this isn't about me choosing my path, I'm discovering it.



Things have definitely changed. Apollon has revealed himself to me as the elusive God of Healing that I've never been able to grasp a hold of in Christianity. Perhaps he protests to me asking for his assistance with healings -- in the Name of Jesus? lol

...something I probably ought to set right with him before yaking about it here on the forums anymore.

[Twinkle]

Funny. Now that I've posted this, I'm having second thoughts.

I think I'm putting too much weight into this one experience. Perhaps my conclusions are skewed by what I *want* to happen? It would be really nice to not have to be split between Christianity and Paganism. But this isn't about me choosing my path, I'm discovering it.



Things have definitely changed. Apollon has revealed himself to me as the elusive God of Healing that I've never been able to grasp a hold of in Christianity. Perhaps he protests to me asking for his assistance with healings -- in the Name of Jesus? lol

...something I probably ought to set right with him before yaking about it here on the forums anymore.

Oh, you know...there's nothing wrong with talking about it. I think sometimes it helps, because people outside of your experience can give you insight that you've never thought of before.

Don't get me wrong, contemplation is always a wonderful thing, and I do agree that sometimes it's best to get the stuff straight in your head before talking about it - but sometimes it's appropriate to speak about it as well.

In regard to the loss of Christianity, sometimes discovering that you are no longer Christian can be devastating.

I remember mourning the loss of the Church, and *my* Jesus. It broke my heart to realize that Christianity was not something that I could believe in and follow. That realization was hard for me, but necessary.

Wherever you're at with it, I'd be happy to support you in your discovery of path. I've found that the transition from what you've always thought, to what you think now, can sometimes be painful.

[Solya]

Remember that it is not a loss in the strictest sense of the word. :) It is painful because you realise that you're being put on a whole new path, but both your memories and your past ties to the other path make it impossible for you to really lose all of that.

You feel a calling and a revelation from one form of deity. That does not make your prayers to another form of deity invalid, nor does it mean that the two don't interact at certain given times. I feel that you need to give yourself the time and space to experience that revelation and that calling. Only Apollon can give you the firm guiding hand. Take the chance to discover what you've been given.

[Toriach]

Tobias,

Something for you to consider. What if the divisions you are currently struggling with are totally false, because they are largely arbitrary and human made. What if there is only one creator, on "God" and everyone perceives this being through different lenses?

It's not unlike if I'm staring at your feet, and another person is looking at your face we are seeing different parts of you, but there is still just one Tobias.

I remember the early days of my explorations and how much I longed for clarity, but I think you will find that you will reach a point that worrying about what is what, will start to get in the way of your having a dynamic relationship with the myriad beings and forces extant in our Multiverse. And part of me suspects that you have reached that point already.

As I said just something for you to consider.

Good luck.

Toriach

[Tobias]

Perhaps a more positive way to look at this, rather than thinking about how I might have lost Christianity, is how I think I've finally gained paganism. I have never felt comfortable calling myself a pagan, as long as my God has been identified as the Christian God. I have tried unsuccessfully to relabel Him as Zeus, or another version of a Supreme God, but have each time realized that the *best* description of Him has remained Christian. Perhaps He has been known by various people by various names, but for me and the large majority of people on the planet, we know Him as the God Christians worship.

Perhaps I've been holding myself to too high of a personal standard of mystical integrity (that was a mouthful! ;) ), but I haven't allowed myself the freedom to label myself a pagan. "Zeus" only fit my God at sometimes, while "Christian God" worked universally across the board. Now I understand why "Zeus" didn't work all the time... sometimes it wasn't Zeus at all!

Without getting too in-depth, it looks like I now have a complete pagan means of describing my spirituality, without having to take people to Christianity to describe the most important aspect of it, namely my God. What it does to my Christianity I don't fully know yet, but it must certainly give paganism a thumbs up! :thumbsup:

[Galen]

Perhaps a more positive way to look at this, rather than thinking about how I might have lost Christianity, is how I think I've finally gained paganism. I have never felt comfortable calling myself a pagan, as long as my God has been identified as the Christian God. I have tried unsuccessfully to relabel Him as Zeus, or another version of a Supreme God, but have each time realized that the *best* description of Him has remained Christian. Perhaps He has been known by various people by various names, but for me and the large majority of people on the planet, we know Him as the God Christians worship.

Perhaps I've been holding myself to too high of a personal standard of mystical integrity (that was a mouthful! ;) ), but I haven't allowed myself the freedom to label myself a pagan. "Zeus" only fit my God at sometimes, while "Christian God" worked universally across the board. Now I understand why "Zeus" didn't work all the time... sometimes it wasn't Zeus at all!

Without getting too in-depth, it looks like I now have a complete pagan means of describing my spirituality, without having to take people to Christianity to describe the most important aspect of it, namely my God. What it does to my Christianity I don't fully know yet, but it must certainly give paganism a thumbs up! :thumbsup:

Find what works for you.

Labels are not important.

[sparrowspirit]

labels are totally not important. I second Galen's post.

but umm, I wish you luck in your search. and take comfort in knowing that things are finally looking okay.

[Twinkle]

Meh. Labels are only unimportant if you're not using them to define yourself or your path.

Labels have meaning. Words mean stuff. If you (the general you) feel a label is unimportant, then don't use one.

If one is going to be trying to define oneself as "Pagan", or "Christian", then those words have meaning - even broad terms like the ones I just mentioned.

So yes...one should be careful in using a label, but I wouldn't say that aren't important. They most certainly are.

[David19]

Congrats on finding your path, I hope it works out for you, and I agree with the others when they said, find what works for you, maybe you are being called to the Hellenic Gods, or just Apollo and Zeus, or maybe Jesus is also calling to you, don't worry so much about labels right away, just go with your feelings and see where it leads.

Good luck :).

[Tobias]

Thanks everybody for the support. :thumbsup:


As far as labels go, I have been doing my thing under the "Christian" label for quite a long time, realizing just how odd a duck I am and not really fitting in. Not that I expect to find that many others who are just like myself; but there is a certain danger in being too unique. Crazy imaginations quickly lead a person into a place where nobody else can follow. Charismatic cult leaders manage to drag a few followers down in there with them; others just isolate themselves from society and keep pursuing their personal "truth" that nobody else cares to listen to.

You wouldn't believe how comforting it is to know that others have gone down this same road before me! While exploring the mystical, I fully expected to confirm the religious theories and doctrines I had been taught. But the road kept leading me elsewhere. I pressed on, knowing that spiritual reality is better than anybody's armchair theories. Everything seemed to isolate me more and more though. Especially when you absolutely can't talk to Christians about relationships you have with pagan gods, and pagans really don't care to hear too much about how your patron god is Jehovah.

Less isolation = good! :thumbsup:

[Lupabitch]

Why even put it in terms of "loss" and "gain"? That assigns unnecessary value judgements to things that are equally valid and valuable.

[David19]

Why even put it in terms of "loss" and "gain"? That assigns unnecessary value judgements to things that are equally valid and valuable.

Great point :thumbsup:.

[of black birds]

Thanks everybody for the support. :thumbsup:


Especially when you absolutely can't talk to Christians about relationships you have with pagan gods, and pagans really don't care to hear too much about how your patron god is Jehovah.

Less isolation = good! :thumbsup:

My mom is super rad, I wish you could meet her and see that some will relate. She's Christian but is totally open to talking about different gods like Aphrodite, Odin, the Orishas, etc.

Good luck on your path and your self-discovery. :weirdsmil

[dandalion]

Tobias

It sounds like we are kind of on the same journey about two years ago I started to remove layers of Christianity unintentionally. When I finally started to understand what was happening to me and that I have changed courses on a spiritual sense I ran with it. I have so far enjoyed my journey and realized a while back that I do not claim to be Christian anymore. This came as a surprise one day when some 'uber' Christian did something to get them in the news and I was like "silly Christians" I guess what I mean by my rambling is: do not think too hard about it, loosen up and enjoy where your heart takes you.

[Tobias]

Well, it's been decided. Apollon has been telling me that it's time to let go of Christianity, and live as a pagan. I've come out on a message board from my community, where I use my real name and some people know me personally. I'm not sure where this is going to lead!


Funny story though: As I was trying to decide what to do, and felt Apollon leading me towards being pagan, I started fishing for a "second opinion." I was looking around to some of the other Gods whom I trust, and have helped me out on occasion in my life, but none of them were offering anything. It felt almost like I was doing something wrong by questioning Apollo's leading, but hey, I haven't known Him as Apollon for very many days yet so far!

So anyway, Hermes finally steps forward and offers a reply. He says: "I think you should Go For It!!" (Reminding me at the same time of how much fun I have had in the past following him.) :) Then he put everything in perspective, and showed me just how ridiculous I was being... I was trying to poll my Gods to see if I'm really a Pagan or not!

[Twinkle]

LOL. The Messenger came through for you.

I came to Hellenismos through my gnosis of Hermes. He's wonderful, and it's amazing to me how once you know of him, he always seems to come through when you need it. :)

Congratulations to you Tobias. I'm glad you've found your way.

[David19]

Glad you found your way.