Breastfeeding rooms hidden in health care law

[Caitlin.ann]

(CNN) -- With her 5-week-old daughter crying in a bathroom at Nordstrom, and not knowing how to get the baby to latch on to her breast, Garima Nahar found herself surrounded by other women. Some offered tips, but one woman told the new mother to cover up or turn the other way.

"I had to kind of hide my tears and just be brave in front of her, because, you know what, 'I have a crying baby and I don't want to deal with you right now,' " said Nahar, a software manager in Chicago, Illinois.

(...)

Nursing mothers will now get additional support, thanks to page 1239 of the health care bill that President Obama recently signed into law. It requires employers to provide "a place, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from co-workers and the public, which may be used by an employee to express breast milk." Only companies with less than 50 employees can claim it's an undue hardship.

Link (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/04/09/breast.feeding.society/)

[Vampiel]

The woman that told her to cover up is obviously a sexist bigot.

[Kraheera]

I agree Vamp. A lot of women are extremely uncomfortable/queasy with the idea of breastfeeding, and I think it's because we've had this "formula bottle feeding" stereotype fora few decades.

Most women these days didn't grow up thinking about breasts as anything other than sexual objects. It gets frustrating when your own species says shit to you simply for you trying to feed your baby.

>> I think it's a good thing babies take two arms... otherwise I'd have smacked her.

[Ariste]

I agree Vamp. A lot of women are extremely uncomfortable/queasy with the idea of breastfeeding, and I think it's because we've had this "formula bottle feeding" stereotype fora few decades.

Most women these days didn't grow up thinking about breasts as anything other than sexual objects. It gets frustrating when your own species says shit to you simply for you trying to feed your baby.

>> I think it's a good thing babies take two arms... otherwise I'd have smacked her.

Lol agreed. I had to feed kit in walmart once and someone started giving me shit about it even though I was covered. My husband jumped right to my rescue though I thought he was going to knock the woman out lol.

[Pagan Warrior]

I wonder how much this is really going to help. For example, the company I work for is in a secured facility and family is NOT permitted beyond the guard gate. And honestly (women can correct me here if you want) but how many mother's really take their infants to work??? As a soon-to-be dad with a woman who will be breastfeeding, I think it's great to be considerate of this need ... however I feel this is nothing more than a marketing ploy to help push through a healthcare bill.

Having said that, how about we (as Americans) get the hell over this stigma of a woman's breasts? I think a mother breastfeeding is a beautiful, natural, and wonderful thing and is NOTHING to be ashamed of or be taunted over. I'm less in favor of a bill that will make it even more of a taboo and more in favor of getting over this idea that a woman shouldn't be allowed to feed her child.

[Kraheera]

I wonder how much this is really going to help. For example, the company I work for is in a secured facility and family is NOT permitted beyond the guard gate. And honestly (women can correct me here if you want) but how many mother's really take their infants to work??? As a soon-to-be dad with a woman who will be breastfeeding, I think it's great to be considerate of this need ... however I feel this is nothing more than a marketing ploy to help push through a healthcare bill.



When they are speaking about workplace breastfeeding room, they mean so that a working mother can go to a room to PUMP in peace. Not necessarily that you will be breastfeeding in those rooms.

The requirements are that it be a room that can provide privacy, an outlet for electrical pumps, and that the workplace have a refridgerator available for storage of said milk.

This is a GOOD thing, as many work places do not provide these things, and so women choose to not breastfeed because they have no feasible way of pumping at work.

[daphnerose]

I breastfed all three of my boys. My MIL used to have the nerve to imply that I was being lazy to breastfeed them. Because back in the day when SHE was raising her kids she had to boil the bottles and scrub them with toothbrushes and etc etc. It was quite comical. I find it hard to believe a woman would think ill of someone breastfeedig their own child, especially in a ladys sitting room. What a twit! Its crazy the way we are so uptight about something that is a natural thing!
I think its great that there are going to be places provided for women to that. I did get uncomfortable about having to *flop it out* in public to feed my child, but it never stopped me.
daphne

[Kraheera]

I breastfed all three of my boys. My MIL used to have the nerve to imply that I was being lazy to breastfeed them. Because back in the day when SHE was raising her kids she had to boil the bottles and scrub them with toothbrushes and etc etc. It was quite comical. I find it hard to believe a woman would think ill of someone breastfeedig their own child, especially in a ladys sitting room. What a twit! Its crazy the way we are so uptight about something that is a natural thing!
I think its great that there are going to be places provided for women to that. I did get uncomfortable about having to *flop it out* in public to feed my child, but it never stopped me.
daphne


*giggle*

Flop it out. Oh so true. *more giggling while tugging out the breastfeeding mom card* I soooo want to get some surgery to fix what breastfeeding did to me someday.

Ahem. Moving on.

[aponi]

Someone actually had the audacity to tell me that "breastfeeding is barbaric because we have formula nowadays."
So I simply asked them if they think sex is barbaric as well seeing as how we have artificial insemination these days...

The nerve of some people. [And the stupidity].

[aluokaloo]

this is good, the sooner we get people used to it, the sooner most people will hopefully stop being immature a-holes about it.

[aluokaloo]

I wonder how much this is really going to help. For example, the company I work for is in a secured facility and family is NOT permitted beyond the guard gate. And honestly (women can correct me here if you want) but how many mother's really take their infants to work??? As a soon-to-be dad with a woman who will be breastfeeding, I think it's great to be considerate of this need ... however I feel this is nothing more than a marketing ploy to help push through a healthcare bill.

Having said that, how about we (as Americans) get the hell over this stigma of a woman's breasts? I think a mother breastfeeding is a beautiful, natural, and wonderful thing and is NOTHING to be ashamed of or be taunted over. I'm less in favor of a bill that will make it even more of a taboo and more in favor of getting over this idea that a woman shouldn't be allowed to feed her child.


man that bolded part was beautiful, your lady is very lucky to have you.:uhhuhuh:

[Cindlady2]

5 kids.... breast feed them all.... my oldest is 34. That said, I have seen and experienced many things and attitudes over the years. Slowly, very slowly it's gotten better. More and more people are accepting it. Sure, If your "showing off" your breast... not good, but most woman try to be discreet. Hopefully, in another generation, it will be as excepted as anyone else who wants to eat!

One very good thing I had going for me was my dad's mother! I was breastfeeding at her house one day and she came in the room and we started to talk about it. Turned out she was a Wet Nurse! (Someone who breast feeds other peoples babies.) Boy, was that an eye opener!!! The controversy has been going on since about the 1920's! And during the depression they were really pushing bottle feeding at a time when often people had a hard time feeding their families. Many babies starved because mothers would try to "stretch" the formula out by adding more water. A problem that still happens among the poor today.

And yes, I do think that the more we "sexualized" woman's breast, the harder it is to except that they are really there to feed offspring!

[brymble]

Many babies starved because mothers would try to "stretch" the formula out by adding more water. A problem that still happens among the poor today.


Lower-income women need more and better access to accurate information about breastfeeding, because often they are not getting from their doctors. I was really pressured to formula-feed, not because it was "better" or even as good, but because WIC formula is free. I was told to breastfeed I'd have to rent a pump and buy bras, nursing clothes, pads, cushions, stools, lanolin and all kinds of ridiculous accessories, and that I couldn't "afford" breastfeeding.

Let's think about the horrible implications of that statement. Just take the formula because it's free, and you can't afford to breastfeed.

:wtf:

I wonder what kind of training goes into becoming a lactation consultant?:hmmmmm:

[Kraheera]

Breast pumps, quality ones anyways, ARE expensive. I wish WIC would put money into THOSE, instead of just formula. But yes, overall breastfeeding is MUCH less expensive than formula feeding. All the bottles, the formula... gah. I have only bought formula for 3 months, and I HATE it... damn drying up issues!

Fortunately MY lactation consultant was a wonderful woman. She gave us information on where to find pumps for sale or rent.

[tapestry]

Just to play devil's advocate here, I wonder if these rooms will actually send us backward. They certainly will not help with acceptance. Only regular exposure (pun intended) will help inure people enough to make it more commonly accepted I think.

I don't want to go to some room. I want to nurse where I am, this is the convenient part of nursing. I don't have to go make a bottle, I can just "flop it out" and keep right on talking, eating, grocery shopping (thank you sling), etc. I don't want to stop what I'm doing and go to some room and sit for half an hour.

I'm sorry, I don't like it. It's putting women who breastfeed apart, yet again. I think places for families and children in the workplace is wonderful, but segregation by law is bull no matter how you word it, and while this law does not say that it will be required to go there, the public backlash will almost certainly be "there's a room for that now, why don't you go in there". And then I have to be snarky to some bi***-in-a-snit and nobody wants to see that.

[brymble]

Workplace rooms are mainly for pumping, not nursing. Most women can't bring their babies into work with them. I have heard of stay-at-home dads bringing baby into nurse with mommy on her lunch break, but that's not a common occurrence.


Just to play devil's advocate here, I wonder if these rooms will actually send us backward. They certainly will not help with acceptance. Only regular exposure (pun intended) will help inure people enough to make it more commonly accepted I think.

I don't want to go to some room. I want to nurse where I am, this is the convenient part of nursing. I don't have to go make a bottle, I can just "flop it out" and keep right on talking, eating, grocery shopping (thank you sling), etc. I don't want to stop what I'm doing and go to some room and sit for half an hour.

I'm sorry, I don't like it. It's putting women who breastfeed apart, yet again. I think places for families and children in the workplace is wonderful, but segregation by law is bull no matter how you word it, and while this law does not say that it will be required to go there, the public backlash will almost certainly be "there's a room for that now, why don't you go in there". And then I have to be snarky to some bi***-in-a-snit and nobody wants to see that.

[Ariste]

When I had Tana I was on WIC. They gave me extra food because i was breastfeeding and welfare paid for me to rent a pump from the hospital. Unfortunately I lost both when Tana was about 4 months old because they found out my grandparents had a bank account in my name with thousands of dollars in it. It was set up in such a way that I couldn't touch it without their permission., but that apparently didn't matter

[aluokaloo]

Just to play devil's advocate here, I wonder if these rooms will actually send us backward. They certainly will not help with acceptance. Only regular exposure (pun intended) will help inure people enough to make it more commonly accepted I think.

I don't want to go to some room. I want to nurse where I am, this is the convenient part of nursing. I don't have to go make a bottle, I can just "flop it out" and keep right on talking, eating, grocery shopping (thank you sling), etc. I don't want to stop what I'm doing and go to some room and sit for half an hour.

I'm sorry, I don't like it. It's putting women who breastfeed apart, yet again. I think places for families and children in the workplace is wonderful, but segregation by law is bull no matter how you word it, and while this law does not say that it will be required to go there, the public backlash will almost certainly be "there's a room for that now, why don't you go in there". And then I have to be snarky to some bi***-in-a-snit and nobody wants to see that.

i do see what you are saying. you make very valid points, but don't forget that some people are very body shy as well and it might make them feel more comfortable at the least if no one was around when they breastfed or pumped. :uhhuhuh:

[Pagan Warrior]

[/b]man that bolded part was beautiful, your lady is very lucky to have you.:uhhuhuh:

Thank you :) I'm actually very proud that she'll be breastfeeding, and we've already worked out a plan (if you will) so that I don't feel as left out (as men often do with breastfeeding). We're also going to use cloth diapers instead of the disposable ones, it's cheaper and better for little baby butts :)


5 kids.... breast feed them all.... my oldest is 34. That said, I have seen and experienced many things and attitudes over the years. Slowly, very slowly it's gotten better. More and more people are accepting it. Sure, If your "showing off" your breast... not good, but most woman try to be discreet. Hopefully, in another generation, it will be as excepted as anyone else who wants to eat!

Discretion is good, but a woman should also be able to breastfeed comfortably without the threat of judgment and/or harassment. I know my SO won't take crap from anyone, so I'm not worried about her, but there are women who could very easily be bullied into believing that breastfeeding is unnatural and somehow dirty.


And yes, I do think that the more we "sexualized" woman's breast, the harder it is to except that they are really there to feed offspring!

Okay, I may have a strange perspective on this but I am going to say that both are true. What makes men (in general) attracted to women are the features that imply that the woman is fertile and well equipped to have children. These "attractive features" or "sexual appeal" are built into our coding, much in the same way as the features that make a man more appealing to a woman physically. So, the fact that a woman's breasts are intended to feed babies is exactly why they have sexual appeal ... it's designed to keep our species going.

What really needs to happen is for our society (again ... in general) to remove the stigma from the subject of sex. Stop treating it as if it's some terrible taboo act of repulsion and accept that a man has a penis, a woman has a vagina, sex feels good, and and the process of having sex is intended to help our species reproduce. I believe if we tear that down, the idea of a woman exposing her breast to feed a baby will be no big deal.

Just my 2 cents.

[tapestry]

i do see what you are saying. you make very valid points, but don't forget that some people are very body shy as well and it might make them feel more comfortable at the least if no one was around when they breastfed or pumped. :uhhuhuh:

Oh I agree, some would rather have that place, and therefore it should exist but maybe just not quite yet. I'd rather it be a "here is a comfy place for you if you'd like, but if not, hey babe, flop it out!" :hahugh: I just think that if it exists now (with current bias as it is) that it will become another prison, like the bathroom already is in too many cases.

I do forget that most moms can't take babe to work, though. That's another rule I dislike! :bigredgrin:

[brymble]

I do forget that most moms can't take babe to work, though. That's another rule I dislike! :bigredgrin:

Not all workplaces are appropriate or safe for babies, nor can they be made so. That's not a "rule", that's a practical reality.

[ShadowcatX]

I don't know what I think of this. I'm not a fan of putting pressures on businesses. However, after the last breast feeding thread, I don't like the idea of relegating it to a back room like it is something to be ashamed of either. I think I'd prefer the law to have a room where people can go if they don't want to have to see it. (Still doesn't get me over the pressuring businesses unfairly, but que sera.)

[Kraheera]

I don't know what I think of this. I'm not a fan of putting pressures on businesses. However, after the last breast feeding thread, I don't like the idea of relegating it to a back room like it is something to be ashamed of either. I think I'd prefer the law to have a room where people can go if they don't want to have to see it. (Still doesn't get me over the pressuring businesses unfairly, but que sera.)


Ideally... sure. But in practicality? Nope. I'll give you an example.

Back when I worked in the military, I worked in an office last. That office was a customer service office. There were 8 people working in it, and steady traffic in and out.

Now, I don't know if you understand the mental mechanics of breastfeeding. "Let Down" requires relaxation and either the suckling of an actual baby, or something to make you THINK of a baby. If you do not achieve this "let down", pumping can be quite useless and/or painful.

Now imagine trying to achieve "let down" when people keep walking in and out, asking questions about jobs because hey, you're there. And you can at least answer questions, right? (that's if we completely ignore the awkwardness of asking the breastpumping woman)

Also imagine trying to be discreet. You can be discreet about flashing nipple when there is an actual baby. Not so much with a pump. You are very much "hanging out", and most pumps have clear shields.

In the interests of the mother havign a quick, painless, and EFFICIENT pumping session... a room that is quiet and somewhat private is necessary.

[brymble]

The law only affects businesses with over 50 employees, but it's actually not that hard to accomodate, even for smaller businesses. I could have even done it in my little gift gallery shop I ran for the arts center years ago.

[Cindlady2]

Lower-income women need more and better access to accurate information about breastfeeding, because often they are not getting from their doctors. I was really pressured to formula-feed, not because it was "better" or even as good, but because WIC formula is free. I was told to breastfeed I'd have to rent a pump and buy bras, nursing clothes, pads, cushions, stools, lanolin and all kinds of ridiculous accessories, and that I couldn't "afford" breastfeeding.

Let's think about the horrible implications of that statement. Just take the formula because it's free, and you can't afford to breastfeed.

:wtf:

I wonder what kind of training goes into becoming a lactation consultant?:hmmmmm:
Very true, my daughter was told stuff like that, and I think that's one reason she gave up so soon trying to breast feed. It would be so cheap and so easy for her to give formula.
Also, the hospital gets free samples from the formula companies. When I had my kids those samples stayed at the grandparents house for emergencies.


Breast pumps, quality ones anyways, ARE expensive. I wish WIC would put money into THOSE, instead of just formula. But yes, overall breastfeeding is MUCH less expensive than formula feeding. All the bottles, the formula... gah. I have only bought formula for 3 months, and I HATE it... damn drying up issues!

Fortunately MY lactation consultant was a wonderful woman. She gave us information on where to find pumps for sale or rent.
By the time I had my last one I used maybe 4 bottles and the grandparents each had 2. I never took to a pump, just went straight to squirting it in a bottle, so that cost was out. I had a can of formula for emergencies so that was about it. It only started getting pricey when I weened!


Thank you :)

Discretion is good, but a woman should also be able to breastfeed comfortably without the threat of judgment and/or harassment. I know my SO won't take crap from anyone, so I'm not worried about her, but there are women who could very easily be bullied into believing that breastfeeding is unnatural and somehow dirty.



Okay, I may have a strange perspective on this but I am going to say that both are true. What makes men (in general) attracted to women are the features that imply that the woman is fertile and well equipped to have children. These "attractive features" or "sexual appeal" are built into our coding, much in the same way as the features that make a man more appealing to a woman physically. So, the fact that a woman's breasts are intended to feed babies is exactly why they have sexual appeal ... it's designed to keep our species going.

What really needs to happen is for our society (again ... in general) to remove the stigma from the subject of sex. Stop treating it as if it's some terrible taboo act of repulsion and accept that a man has a penis, a woman has a vagina, sex feels good, and and the process of having sex is intended to help our species reproduce. I believe if we tear that down, the idea of a woman exposing her breast to feed a baby will be no big deal.

Just my 2 cents.
I totally understand... and it's kinda' the point I was trying to make.
Breast are natural, are part of what we as women are. There for a reason.

[Kraheera]

Heh. I could never get my milk to let down without a pump if I didn't have my baby RIGHT tHERE. :weirdsmil

I was never able to figure out how women just squirt into a bottle. Ah well.

[~*Sacred*~]

Heh. I could never get my milk to let down without a pump if I didn't have my baby RIGHT tHERE. :weirdsmil

I was never able to figure out how women just squirt into a bottle. Ah well.
takes practice... lol

[brymble]

We had trouble renting a pump because we don't use credit cards, and the hosipital store was rather nasty about it. They went from being totally helpful and supportive to making insane irrational accusations that we were trying to steal the pump. Well **** that!

I breastfed a voracious 3 1/2 lb preemie (smaller babies have tinier stomachs and thus need to eat more often) for three years with minimal forumla supplementation and only a manual pump! RAWR!

I think we bought two cans in the entire 3 years. We donated the free Enfamil to a food pantry and bought two cans of organic formula for emergencies, since at first with the baby in the hospital for 3 weeks, I was having difficulty letting down even with the hospital pump. Once the baby was home, it was another story. She'd been home maybe an hour, I was in the kitchen doing dishes, and she just murmured in Daddy's arms from the other room and SPLASH! All over my shoes, like a pair of faucets on full blast.

[Kraheera]

I think we bought two cans in the entire 3 years. We donated the free Enfamil to a food pantry and bought two cans of organic formula for emergencies, since at first with the baby in the hospital for 3 weeks, I was having difficulty letting down even with the hospital pump. Once the baby was home, it was another story. She'd been home maybe an hour, I was in the kitchen doing dishes, and she just murmured in Daddy's arms from the other room and SPLASH! All over my shoes, like a pair of faucets on full blast.


Heh, I had something VERY similar happen. I was in the kitchen in just my pajama shirt... baby cried from across the house, but I had the monitor in the kitchen... and the next thing I know, my shirt is plastered to my front. GROSS.

*snickers*

[Cindlady2]

LOL....amazing how that works!
The worse is when your out and find your not as "padded" as you thought!

[aluokaloo]

Oh I agree, some would rather have that place, and therefore it should exist but maybe just not quite yet. I'd rather it be a "here is a comfy place for you if you'd like, but if not, hey babe, flop it out!" :hahugh: I just think that if it exists now (with current bias as it is) that it will become another prison, like the bathroom already is in too many cases.

I do forget that most moms can't take babe to work, though. That's another rule I dislike! :bigredgrin:

why maybe not quite yet? are you saying that we should force body shy people out into the open where they will be uncomfortable, miserable and maybe even too stressed to do it? that's messed up

[tapestry]

why maybe not quite yet? are you saying that we should force body shy people out into the open where they will be uncomfortable, miserable and maybe even too stressed to do it? that's messed up

No, I generally state outright what I mean, I don't beat around the bush much. :)

What I mean is to say precisely what I already said, that to have the room now,while seemingly innocuous, may ultimately contribute to some of the problems associated with the current somewhat common perception of nursing as an act that needs to be hidden. A situation which is (I believe) harmful to both mother and child. Therefore (I feel) that making it a law to require these rooms will actually be ultimately detrimental to the progression of open breastfeeding being more regularly socially commonplace, without restraint, and without negativity being directed at the participants.

I don't recall saying anything about shy people whatsoever. But were I pressed to do so (as I now believe I have been); I would maybe ask them to take one for the team. :hahugh: Or, also, I might add that some of this shyness has perhaps been caused by these perceptions and that in reversing them we stand a chance (however small) of creating a better ideal (and less body consciousness) for the women that are yet to come. By this I mean specifically nursing, not pumping, which as it was already pointed out, is done with usually clear shields and no baby to offer shielding and the need for let down peace and quiet and so forth, that's a whole different duck. :uhhuhuh:

I hope that clears up my position for you. :)