A connection between YHWH and Athtar?

[ninurta2008]

Just curious if there are any. As I understand it, Athtar is just too obscure as it is, and to make things worse, outside of what I read about him in the Baal Epic, a few inscriptions, and the Deir Alla inscription, I know next to nothing about him other than his relation to Ishtar.

Though could their be a connection between YHWH and Athtar? I ask this because the question popped into my head after reading the Deir Alla inscription. I know the Athtar in Deir Alla is feminine while the canaanite/phoenician ones are masculine. Though I'm just curious because of what the Deir Alla inscription is about.

The Deir Alla inscription is about Balaam the son of Beor's vision where Shegar-wa-Athtar (I question the translation, as I wonder if this is supposed to be 2 deities, as if read literally, it means "shegar and Athtar") tells Balaam moreless that instead of a good omen for his city, it would have problems. This seems to be the same story found in Numbers regarding Balaam, yet Shegar-wa-Athtar is replaced by YHWH.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ra0QmH4np4kC&pg=PA103&dq=%22Aramaic+texts+from+Deir+%27Alla%22&lr=&as_brr=3&client=firefox-a&cd=3#v=onepage&q=%22Aramaic%20texts%20from%20Deir%20%27Alla%22&f=false

Then again, that wouldn't be the only canaanite god he seems to have so much in common with. There is also Hadad, which is so similar, the biggest difference being YHWH hates the title Baal.

[OpenHands]

Well, here's what I know and what I've read. I'm not familiar with the inscription you linked to so perhaps I'm missing context.

You're right, Athtar played a minor role in the Ugaritic texts so we don't know much about him. In del Olmo Lete's book, Canaanite Religion it's suggested that he could have connections to artificial irrigation, which would explain why he couldn't fill Hadad's role in the Ba'al Epic since irrigation wasn't practical for the people of that region at the time. His other tentative assocation with the planet Venus comes from his (equally uncertain) connections to Ishtar and Athtart. Neither of those assocations cross over to the ancient Israelite conception of Elohim AFAIK.

Mark Smith wrote a book you're probably familiar with that explores the subject of which Canaanite gods may have contributed attributes to Elohim called The Early History of God. I checked and Athtar was not mentioned as having any influence. Interestingly though, Smith did note that like Elohim, Canaanite gods sometimes were given female metaphors. One of his examples was "Athtar the mother" and it got me thinking about the Athtar you noted in Deir Alla. It could just be coincidence though.

Interesting question either way, thanks for posting this. :)

[ninurta2008]

I wasn't referring to the Elohim/Elohim, just YHWH. As it relates to the story of Balaam. I have no clue what the context of the Deir 'Alla inscription is, and is why I was curious. The two are so similar, if not the same story.

You're welcome!

[OpenHands]

I wasn't referring to the Elohim/Elohim, just YHWH. As it relates to the story of Balaam. I have no clue what the context of the Deir 'Alla inscription is, and is why I was curious. The two are so similar, if not the same story.

You're welcome!

Just out of curiosity, what difference do you see between the names other than the personal/epithetical nature of them? I stopped using YHWH in discussion after speaking some a couple of Jewish folks who explained how it's an unspeakable name, etc and took their cue by using epithets like Elohim and Adonai. I'm no expert in ancient Isrealite or modern Jewish religion though and I realize that scholars lean heavily towards using YHWH.

Is there additional information about the difference between the names that I'm missing?

[PaganSpirit]

Elohim basically just means Deity or deities in Hebrew. YHWH is the personal name of the Hebrew god. At one time in history, before the Torah was written down and everything, it is possible that these two could have been separate gods of a pantheon, but it's really all speculation. Either way, Elohim and YHWH are generally considered to be the same entity, just different titles.

[OpenHands]

Elohim basically just means Deity or deities in Hebrew. YHWH is the personal name of the Hebrew god. At one time in history, before the Torah was written down and everything, it is possible that these two could have been separate gods of a pantheon, but it's really all speculation. Either way, Elohim and YHWH are generally considered to be the same entity, just different titles.

That's what I thought I had read, but I wasn't entirely sure. Thank you!

[ninurta2008]

Elohim basically just means Deity or deities in Hebrew. YHWH is the personal name of the Hebrew god. At one time in history, before the Torah was written down and everything, it is possible that these two could have been separate gods of a pantheon, but it's really all speculation. Either way, Elohim and YHWH are generally considered to be the same entity, just different titles.
well that all depends, "Yhwh" is the hebrew version of "YW" which too is an epithet. i just distinguish because I thought YHWH is the name in that particular story, irrespective of whether or not the name YHWH us thought to be bad to say or not.

It's fine to type though.

They're not though the same thing outside hebrew theology, and I have my doubts about that being the case even within the Tanakh, but thats different. I just seperate the two so much that its hard to recombine them. So nevermind I said not to..