A word on censorship..

[mol]

I got an email that opened my eyes about something. I want everyone in this community to know about the policy of censorship here.

THERE WILL BE NONE.

The only time anything close to censorship will be used is:

a. Someone is BASHING another Path. Disagreements and arguments are fine...but when we start to actually ridicule another Path..this cannot happen here. All are welcome. So come and disagree. Come and argue. But dont come and ridicule.

b. Someone is BASHING another Community member. Again, arguments and disagreements occur, but throwing insults at another person...this also cannot happen here.

Thats it. So, take that as you will. This is not a place where total agreement is possible and that is fine. This is a place where debates could get quite heated...and that is fine...because in the end...we are all here for one thing. To learn and to enjoy.

So go to it.

Blessings.

[Twig]

Nuff Said!

[Polaris]

MM
wot do you mean?wot about swear words?
MP
Polaris
ps-poetry forum.(hint)

[Rosabelle]

mol- is there messenger any more on mysticwicks? sorry for putting it in this message but i thought it wasnt worth me putting up a new thread. :)
Rosabelle

[mol]

Originally posted by Rosabelle
mol- is there messenger any more on mysticwicks? sorry for putting it in this message but i thought it wasnt worth me putting up a new thread. :)
Rosabelle

There is no messenger right now.

And about cussing or swearing...no that will not be censored. We are all, well most of us, adults. I dont feel that swearing is cause for censorship unless someone is getting really out of hand and offending someone else. And then we would just ask that person to stop. Not censor.

[Semele]

Censorship belongs in the hands of parents!

uh...well anyway take it or leave it.
Semele

[Myst]

I don't think I've ever seen it said better :)

[Mairwen]

HEAR! HEAR!!

[loopy]

Originally posted by Mairwen
HEAR! HEAR!!

I echo that sentiment.

[Illuminatus]

hey Mol I have a question on a call one of your ref's who I think made a bad call... I'm not naming names but she edited one of my posts in the Gods & Goddessess thread...

Anyway she edited several of my posts and closed the thread because I implied that the Judeo-Christian god Yaweh was "Bad Ass"...

Now what rule did I break again? Except the ever-present "Nobody likes you except when you say what we all WANTED to say but didn't have the gall"...

- Ill

[slvr_phoenix]

What about censorship of sexually-based topics and/or graphics? I mean not MW should be turned into a porn server, but what about discussions about using sex magick or the use of full-frontal adult humor and things like that?

[Yvonne Belisle]

Many of our members are younger and if a parent sees what they feel constitutes porn on a site that is for families Mol could be in for legal harrassement. I don't want to see that happen this place is too special and Mol is great I think the ball has been put in our court to keep it that way volunterily.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
hey Mol I have a question on a call one of your ref's who I think made a bad call... I'm not naming names but she edited one of my posts in the Gods & Goddessess thread...

Well, fyi, because of people like you, I'm no longer a "ref", and the call I made was well within moderator guidelines. I'm still not sure I even want to be a member of this board. Whatever. Seems like people don't know what "respect" means or how to follow rules these days.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
Many of our members are younger and if a parent sees what they feel constitutes porn on a site that is for families Mol could be in for legal harrassement. I don't want to see that happen this place is too special and Mol is great I think the ball has been put in our court to keep it that way volunterily.

I agree, Yvonne. As a mother, I don't want my children to be able to access "family" things on the internet ~ not Disney family watered-down stuff, but REAL things. Pornography and foul language, however, don't fit into this category. If I found either one of my boys viewing anything with fowl language, I'd go haywire. I mean, they're children. Give them a chance to BE children and to grow up when they're ready.

[MystyPines]

Has there been pornography on MW? I have not seen it.

:cool:

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Mairwen
Well, fyi, because of people like you, I'm no longer a "ref", and the call I made was well within moderator guidelines. I'm still not sure I even want to be a member of this board. Whatever. Seems like people don't know what "respect" means or how to follow rules these days.

...or enforce them.

[amberlaine]

Illuminatus:

I understand your concern. Something similar happened to me months ago, and I was banned for it. However, at that time, there were no "community rules". After the rules were established, I appealed for the reinstatement of my account (since I didn't violate any of the currently existing rules) and as you can see, got my accoutn back.

So my advice is, if you think you're being treated unfairly, appeal to a "higher power", privately. MOderators here are on human, and they *do* make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes are infuriating, but responding to them here will only fuel the fire. Take it up with Mol via email or PM, explain what happened, and maybe the moderator in question will be admonished not to delete posts *Again* in the future.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Illuminatus


...or enforce them.

Was this last word necessary? To keep this an open and workable community, *cooperation* from *everyone* is necessary. The community does not want censorship, agreed? The rules of this community have been posted, everyone knows the basic ground rules of operation here. To keep it working as it has been everyone who agrees to these rules by becoming a member has the *responsibility* in turn to abide by them. If a poster has a problem with the rules take it up with those who made them in an appropriate thread.........

Maggie

[Myst]

Originally posted by Maggie
If a poster has a problem with the rules take it up with those who made them in an appropriate thread.........


Or PM the moderator or a site administrator to discuss it.

[slvr_phoenix]

Don't get me wrong. I don't argue for pornography. I think it should be kept away from this site too, as should swear words. (Though I do think that perhaps an adults section where kids aren't allowed to go would be nice to have so that adult topics can be discussed freely.)

My point isn't that we should have nudity or that we should break the rules.

My point is the simple fact that if there are rules (or self-regulated policies not in writing but upheld by the community) against specific forms of expression, this IS a form of censorship.

As mol specifically started this thread with:
I want everyone in this community to know about the policy of censorship here.

THERE WILL BE NONE.I just would like a clarification. Is there or isn't there censorship? Could I indeed post a very graphic picture of things kids shouldn't see? Or would I be moderated against and/or banned? Is MW truely free of all censorship, or are we just kidding ourselves?

I'm not speaking out for one way or the other. I just want to know the honest truth on which way the MW community and it's owners stand so that I know which route to adhere to.

[mol]

Originally posted by MystyPines
Has there been pornography on MW? I have not seen it.

:cool:

There have been a couple of occasions. But it has been dealt with.

[mol]

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix

I'm not speaking out for one way or the other. I just want to know the honest truth on which way the MW community and it's owners stand so that I know which route to adhere to.

Honestly.

Have a look at the rules and decide for yourself.

If you believe it to be censorship...then fine. If you believe it to be a uniformed way of looking at how we should respect each other and this community...also fine.

I look at it as the latter.

[mol]

Originally posted by Willow Raven


Or PM the moderator or a site administrator to discuss it.

Not OR. This is the way any problem should be handled with moderations and rules.

[slvr_phoenix]

Originally posted by mol


Honestly.

Have a look at the rules and decide for yourself.

If you believe it to be censorship...then fine. If you believe it to be a uniformed way of looking at how we should respect each other and this community...also fine.

I look at it as the latter.
Well (if I remember correctly) the rules for signing up were different to the rules posted in the rules thread. Which was something I'd always meant to ask about. Heh heh. Has that changed?

And honestly, I have absolutely no problems with censorship in a privately-owned business anyway. I mean it's your money, so it's your rules. :)

I just want to know the full extent of the rules. And if there is a rule which prohibits any form of expression (which either way I guess there is since we're not allowed to bash one another) then there is censorship.

Censorship isn't a bad thing when used in a good way. A complete and total freedom of speach doesn't have a place everywhere on this Earth. I know that in my home my kids will never be allowed a complete and total freedom to say whatever they like without fear of punishment. ;)

So it's cool with me if there is censorship here. I just think we should be honest with ourselves and admit that for very good reasons there are things we're just not allowed to say and do here. Censorship isn't some evil thing to be avoided at all costs. It's a tool. And like any tool, it can be used for good, or it can be abused for bad. MW uses it for good.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Maggie
Was this last word necessary? To keep this an open and workable community, *cooperation* from *everyone* is necessary. The community does not want censorship, agreed?

It was. Was YOUR last word necessary? You had nothing to say on this topic while it was in discussion, except to pop in to critisize me. You berate me and call for unity with the same breath, does this strike anyone else as slightly hypocritical?

When a moderator has a problem with my posts, they AIM or PM me, and I fix it for them, minimum fuss, usually with a 10 minute turnaround. When mods go and outright edit my posts without consent in public view, I deal with it in like form - posting in public threads. Moderators set the precedent for communication, do not critizise me for following it.

- Illuminatus

[amberlaine]

When mods go and outright edit my posts without consent in public view, I deal with it in like form - posting in public threads. Moderators set the precedent for communication, do not critizise me for following it.

*nods*

I have to agree with you, there.

Look, Mol can run this community however he sees fit. And if its not ok to start a thread about suspect moderation habits or other gripes against th way things work, then this stomps out any chance of *discussion* about these things. Maybe Illuminatus is the nly one who feels this way--or maybe not. If he PMs a moderator and isn't allowed to post about t\his reaction to a moderation, or to a rule, etc, he doesn't know if there is any community support for his feelings or not. And I suspect that this is something of a problem. There is a *lot* of talk these days about how this is "our community", but when it comes right down to it--if you're not a Mod, you don't have much a say in how things work. And that's fine if that's how it is---but lets be up front about that, at least. OTherwise, Illuminatus, and AMberlaine, and anyone else with a gripe about a moderator or any other BS should be able to discuss these problems in public to get a feel for the community reaction. Sometimes, we individuals *do indeed* have our heads up our arses, and perhaps we won't ralize it unless we have the opinions of our peers. Only public discussion can illuminate that for us. (and it might prove embarassing for us, but hey, we asked for it).

At this moment in time, I don't have any outstanding issues with the administration of the board. All my grievances are water under the bridge. However, I do understand wehre Illuminatus is coming from, and I have to support his feelings. Perhaps part of the problem is that community members dont know what is within a moderator's duty and what is not. If we know up front whether or not its ok for mods to edit or delete our posts, then we can make the informed decision to post or not post on this board. But its extremely infuriating to write out a detailed, well thought out post only to have a moderator (who happens to disagree with your point of view) edit or delete your Voice, especially if you didn't know such a thing was supported on this site.

[Illuminatus]

... we should have a Personal Attack Forum. That would solve so many problems!!

[Yvonne Belisle]

With the way I am reading the last few threads and I may be reading them wrong I get the feeling that people are taking the words of moderators who are not in moderator mode as moderation when they are just being members. We are asked to state that we are in moderator mode when we are posting as moderators. I think that if people are going to take everything we say as official comments just because we are moderators that they need to realize we have the right to post our opinions just like everyone else. This doesn't mean that an opinion is then backed by Mystic Wicks. I have seen quite a bit of this misunderstanding occuring since I came back and I am wondering if that is the root of some of the problems I am seeing.

[MystyPines]

Illuminatus,

I don't think that the Personal Attack Forum is one that you would want to be in.....he he he :eek: Did little ole quiet me say that :D :T Only kidding [grin]

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by MystyPines
Illuminatus,

I don't think that the Personal Attack Forum is one that you would want to be in.....he he he :eek: Did little ole quiet me say that :D :T Only kidding [grin]

Hee hee you're right, I would take the worst of it. But, the best part is, that ALL personal attacks on MW would go there. So if you don't want to read people attacking you, just don't read the forum!!! it's the perfect solution!!!

And yvonne, you are mistaken, these issues are about moderators who are VERY MUCH in moderator mode, not when they are "off duty". Hell, there are so many mods I can't keep track of them any more.

- Ill

[MystyPines]

he he he, Illimunatus, I only said that above because I usually don't get very political and I am pretty quiet on the threads, and I do see that in the past you have gotten some flack from others :) But I find your posts very interesting ;) [smile]

[slvr_phoenix]

Well Illuminatus, if you weren't all such naughty persons then there wouldn't need to be so many mods.

;) Just kidding.

Honestly, I think the sudden increase in moderators is due in combination of some mods getting a life (and thus not having enough time to mod as frequently anymore) and because mol is trying desperately to spark up activity in the communities to keep all us members happy. :)

While I may be a mod, I'm still pretty new and also not very sure of all of the misc. problems going on. I think a lot of it is that people's worlds have just been flipped around lately. (Which all considered is an understandable occurance.) So I think that we should try to be more understanding of screw-ups and people being a little nuts or going a little too far at the moment.

I'm sure things will settle down in the future.

[Myst]

Originally posted by mol


Not OR. This is the way any problem should be handled with moderations and rules.

Well I know but I was *trying* to be nice. You went and ruined that didn't ya :razz: :D

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by MystyPines
he he he, Illimunatus, I only said that above because I usually don't get very political and I am pretty quiet on the threads, and I do see that in the past you have gotten some flack from others :) But I find your posts very interesting ;) [smile]

Hee hee yes, I voice that NAUGHTY, SARCASTIC thought everyone is thinking and WANTS TO SAY SO BADLY but doesn't to spare somebody's feelings. You wouldn't believe how many PM's I get that read "thanks for saying that, I wanted to so badly but I couldn't!!!"

Besides, most pagans are relativists... can't have light and happy sunshine without dark cold frost etc... I figure I fill out the bottom range of voices. It's a poor orchestra that filters out all the low tones.

[threenorns]

Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
Many of our members are younger and if a parent sees what they feel constitutes porn on a site that is for families Mol could be in for legal harrassement. I don't want to see that happen this place is too special and Mol is great I think the ball has been put in our court to keep it that way volunterily.


i don't agree: this site is CLEARLY geared towards adults. nowhere does it imply that young minds won't be exposed to alternative ideas, bad language, or even [gasp in shock, if you must] nudity or [whispering] "S - E - X".

i AM a parent -- i have one young adult (nearly 21) and three teens (17, 15, and 12). the only one i monitor online heavily is the 15 yr-old, and that's because there are special circumstances. with the other three, my "censorship" consists of "if it bothers you, go 'Home'" -- on our computer, that's Google.com.

there are too many ways for parents to limit what their kids are seeing online, so any parent who takes issue with their child seeing something online has to realize that they're not doing the best job of monitoring their kid's online behaviour.

legally, there's nothing anyone can do to harass mol, because nowhere does it say that this is a "kid-friendly" site.

[Mairwen]

Uh, dude. I beg to differ here, please. All through this site, if you look, it is stated over and over that this is a "family-oriented" site. Please look again. Yes, if someone wanted to really press the issue, there are ways that Mol could get into legal trouble over pornography and foul language.

[Fawn]

Yes, Mol could and I am sorry for being such 'touchy' person when I was last here.
I will watch my vocab and stick with the issues in the thread.

[Margie]

Can I just say that Mol is trying to open the door for us here and we shouldn't take advantage of that arguing over what's acceptable, what we can and can't post and pushing the limits of what's socially acceptable.

Walking around in your neighborhood you have every right to do and say whatever you want...but you don't go around yelling profanities just because you can. (I don't know about Illuminatus...kidding :) )You use your discression and occasionally when you're trying to get a certain point across you might throw in a swear word just for emphasis. That's your perrogative and Mol is just giving you that choice to use your discression here. You don't go around putting nude pictures on light poles all over your city do you? It's not necessary and maybe if you want to look at those things and share that type of information you should go to those type of websites and share with others like you. It's just not necessary here. This site is for other resources and we shouldn't take advantage of our free speech just cause we can...


Just my opinion, don't rip me up for this. :)

[Myst]

There are several sites on the web for sex, and this isn't one.

It is a family oriented site, and we have members here as young as 12.

And further, in the statement you agree with when you register here you will see "By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.". You agreed to it when you came here, and so does everyone who comes here now. It is against the rules you agreed with when you joined to post sexually-orientated material. Period.