trying to understand

[tabcat]

I want to ask a question, and I hope the nature of the question isn't offensive..that isn't the intent. First let me give you a little background on where I come from so the question will make a little more sense (I hope). I have come to paganism after spending the better part of six years in a 12 step program. The 12 step program was the beginning of my spiritual path (at least my conscious, active part in it) and I am grateful for the self-discipline, self-acceptance, and tolerance I learned there. I'm particularly grateful that I learned there is a power running the universe that isn't out to get me. Now, getting to my question...Part of what the 12 step program teaches is to relinquish control of all aspects of my life and to turn my life over to the care of a Higher Power, and I've learned to do that pretty well. So, my question is this: Is casting spells, reading tarot cards, and other forms of divination attempts to control life, the future, etc.? Please, this is not meant to offend. I don't understand much, and I'm looking for information.
Thanks

[Demeter]

Well, let's see. If you have a gift, a talent, or a skill, and you use that to make a living (say you know how to type and take dictation, so you can work as a secretary), is that an attempt to "control" your future, or is that just doing what you do to live? I believe that doing spells, reading tarot, or whatever else is just like being able to type and file; they're useful skills that you can use for your own benefit. Or not, if you choose (I hate filing and get somebody else to do it whenever I can - but I still know how). Being able to do a divination won't help you "control" your future - but it just might help you cope, and isn't that a good thing?

[Raevyn]

Originally posted by tabcat
Is casting spells, reading tarot cards, and other forms of divination attempts to control life, the future, etc.?

I really didn't find this in anyway offensive at all.

First, casting spells can take different forms. It can include manipulating energy or trying to control things. It can also be in the form of simple prayers, where instead you rely on Higher Power to help you. So, if you want to give control to a Higher Power, it might be very beneficial for you to get in the habit for praying - even if it's just praying for guidance, etc. That is, if it feels appropriate to you. You do *not* have to cast spells as a Wiccan or as a Pagan at all. If they make you uncomfortable you can still believe the religion and not do the spells.

Divination is also not an attempt to control life. What you do when you read cards is try to see what might happen, or what might be a concern. You might ask, for instance, about a job offer, and the tarot reading might tell you about friends that will help, things to be concerned about, and so on. Also keep in mind that divination centered on the future tends to let you know what *might* happen, and is not set in stone - basically it says "as things are looking now, this is what might happen". You also don't have to participate in divination to be Pagan or Wiccan.

Really, all being Wiccan or Pagan means is that you feel the beliefs in your heart. For instance, if you think of the divine in nature, and mark the cycle of seasons as the turning of the wheel, and believe in being responsible for your actions ("an ye harm none do what thou wilt"), as well as the necessity of polar opposites and their equality (such as men and women being equal), you might say you are Wiccan. You don't have to do spells or read tarot cards.

[tabcat]

Originally posted by Raevyn


Really, all being Wiccan or Pagan means is that you feel the beliefs in your heart. For instance, if you think of the divine in nature, and mark the cycle of seasons as the turning of the wheel, and believe in being responsible for your actions ("an ye harm none do what thou wilt"), as well as the necessity of polar opposites and their equality (such as men and women being equal), you might say you are Wiccan. You don't have to do spells or read tarot cards. [/B]


Based on what you've written, I'm definitely Wiccan! As for the praying, I've been doing that for years. Most of the time my prayers are for clarity if there's a problem, for inspiration when I'm teaching or writing, for the ability to hold another in my heart when I'm angry or hurt, and for the courage to be myself rather than what I think others want. Over the years I've moved from praying to God--the mean bearded fellow of my Presbyterian upbringing to "Hey You" to (in the last six months or so) the Goddess. I also do some visualization, particularly when I've lost an object or I need to complete a task, and I pay pretty close attention to any dream that has the feeling of being a real event. Occasionally, I can shift my dreams, but I'm not really good at that and never end up where I intend. So that's kinda where I am.
Thanks for the replies.

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by tabcat
I want to ask a question, and I hope the nature of the question isn't offensive..that isn't the intent. First let me give you a little background on where I come from so the question will make a little more sense (I hope). I have come to paganism after spending the better part of six years in a 12 step program. The 12 step program was the beginning of my spiritual path (at least my conscious, active part in it) and I am grateful for the self-discipline, self-acceptance, and tolerance I learned there. I'm particularly grateful that I learned there is a power running the universe that isn't out to get me. Now, getting to my question...Part of what the 12 step program teaches is to relinquish control of all aspects of my life and to turn my life over to the care of a Higher Power, and I've learned to do that pretty well. So, my question is this: Is casting spells, reading tarot cards, and other forms of divination attempts to control life, the future, etc.? Please, this is not meant to offend. I don't understand much, and I'm looking for information.
Thanks

Congratulations on your recovery! I also found my true spiritual path in the roots of a 12 step program. It was one of the things that led me here although I didn't know it at the time.

I'm only speaking for myself, but I don't use my gift of divination to influence the future. I use it to obtain a stronger connection with my guides and for insight and guidance into how I should be operating.

As for spells and rituals - I use them as a more focused form of prayer, and it is far more effective than the forms of prayer that I was taught while growing up (although I was raised Catholic and their form of prayer is actually quite similar to pagan ritual). I know and accept that whatever comes to be is for the highest good and that my answer may not come in the specific way that I think I want it to.

I firmly believe that our thoughts and intents do indeed influence our lives, and that this gives us a certain level of influence over what happens to us. I wouldn't use the word "control." We must also take steps in the mundane to make things happen. For instance, if you want protection you can shield your home but you also have to lock the door. I've run across a quote that I'm making my mantra for this year: If you wanna win the lottery, you gotta buy a ticket ;) Which means to me that I must make my best effort toward achieving my goals.

[Artemis84]

You bring up an interesting question.

Yes. I think that magick is a way of controlling your own future. But that is what religion is. We all want closure. We want to be comfortable with things we can't know. Just as prayer is a way of asking for God to help bring a logical order and control to your life, so is magick.