Deified Mortals, thoughts?

[Agaliha]

Does anyone worship deified mortals?

I know many pantheons have deified mortals in their mythology, I'm not referring to them (such as those listed at Theoi (http://www.theoi.com/greek-mythology/deified-mortals.html)), but rulers/kings/queens/people that were human and later became deified either by their deeds, legend, someone else bestowing it on them, etc. Such as the Roman emperor cults or things like that.

I had no idea there was such thing as a god named Antinous (saw profile on Neos Alexandria when looking for Deity of the Week ideas), until I read he was a lover of (Emperor) Hadrian that was later deified. So, clearly human. This got me curious and lead to this thread.

Here are links about him, if anyone is interested:
http://www.antinopolis.org
http://www.sacredantinous.com/Ministries.html
http://www.neosalexandria.org/antinous.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20080302014453/http://www.adam-carr.net/antinousindex.html

Does anyone include non-mythology deified mortals in their worship and practice? Do you believe mortals can be deified? What are your thoughts on worshiping them? Would the be the same as a god of known mythology, different?

Also, before anyone mentions Jesus, I'm not an expert, but from my understanding he was a god even in human form (according to Christian theology), not a human that someone deified or was deified later on...so I don't think he'd count.

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting topic...

[Woden's Spear]

On mortals and deification:

http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

I am mostly okay with this universal proposal.

[Louisvillian]

I don't worship any myself, though I feel that the notion is possible. Perhaps the gods decide to raise a mortal into their ranks, one that they feel has done immense good in the world (whatever the hell that means). And perhaps when humanity in the Western world had a more thorough line of communication with the gods, this was an act of mutual agreement. So that, say, Roman Senate's decrees deifying the Caesars were honoured by the gods as part of a mutual give-and-take between the gods and their followers.

[Agaliha]

I don't worship any myself, though I feel that the notion is possible. Perhaps the gods decide to raise a mortal into their ranks, one that they feel has done immense good in the world (whatever the hell that means). And perhaps when humanity in the Western world had a more thorough line of communication with the gods, this was an act of mutual agreement. So that, say, Roman Senate's decrees deifying the Caesars were honoured by the gods as part of a mutual give-and-take between the gods and their followers.

Interesting. I didn't think of things like that, that the gods could have been in agreement with things. Though I do wonder how we'd know if the gods were okay with it? I mean, I haven't read all but a blurb about Antinous, but it seems that Hadrian was really upset about his death and deified him, probably out of love and memory...which seems more the motivations of a person, not the gods. But either way, temples were errected for him and people worshipped him as a sort of avatar of various gods. I have a feeling, things were a lot of fluid way back then.

Do you think that these deified mortals are on the same level of gods? That they can be prayed to and answer those prayers and everything else a deity can do? Or is more similar to honoring one's ancestors (or a Saint-like figure) where you honor them, give them respect, but don't expect the same level of interaction that one would from a deity?

I was curious about other deified mortals and remembered some:

Matzu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazu_%28goddess%29), she was said to be a mortal girl (though that might just be part of the legend)

And then legend says Kwan Yin was a mortal and many today see her as a goddess, even though she's a Bodhisattva.

Lord Nityananda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nityananda) & Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaitanya_Mahaprabhu) in Hinduism were real people (lived 1486–1534) that are, in some sects seen as avatars of Vishnu/Krishna.

I'm sure there are others.

[gracesong]

I don't personally worship any deified mortals, but I think they would be viewed in much the same way as many would view a saint in the Catholic faith. However, as Agaliha mentioned, one doesn't really know if the gods approve of the deification of a mortal in any given time in history. Sorry for straying slightly off-topic, but I think the same would go for the claim of some groups, both political and religious, that such-and-such a person is given a divine right to rule or is the embodiment of a certain god. That just gives the powers that be so much more power, allowing the people to revere their leader as a god in human form and letting them do as they wish.

[Agaliha]

Sorry for straying slightly off-topic, but I think the same would go for the claim of some groups, both political and religious, that such-and-such a person is given a divine right to rule or is the embodiment of a certain god. That just gives the powers that be so much more power, allowing the people to revere their leader as a god in human form and letting them do as they wish.

I don't think it's off topic. This was something that crossed my mind as well. It would be easy for someone to name themselves or someone as as a deity and misuse that power. Or use it for good and betterment. It could go both ways...

And I forgot all the pharaohs of Egypt would fit the deified mortal role as well as they were seen as gods. And the Japanese emperor(s) as well, the family lines said to trace back to Amaterasu.

I guess if I were living in those times, it wouldn't seem so strange to me. I couldn't imagine worshiping a human being that was alive still or recently died. Honoring ancestors is one thing, but it seems these deified mortals were seen as gods, given offerings, prayers, temples, statues, etc.

[gracesong]

Yes, it would be normal for me also had I been living in a society that operated off of those principles. Then, you've got the whole idea of, "OK, this person is a god, and we're worshiping and giving them offerings. They're increasing taxes, making saving up enough food for emergencies and basic, day-to-day living nearly impossible. Is this the will of the gods that we should suffer?" Up until rather recently, as in 1911, the Chinese revered their Emperor as the Son of Heaven.
In all of these cases of deified mortals, could we safely say more abuses of power, i.e. tyranny and lack of accountability, have occurred as compared to those cases wherein people adhered to the principles of justice etc?

[Phoenix_Falls]

I don't worship any deified humans. I treat all deified humans as part of the Ancestors/Akhu, meaning that to me, Tutankhamun (as a well known example, although any pharaoh or deified human like Imhotep would work) isn't a god. He's an Ancestor Spirit. Would that I made offerings to him, it would be the same as when I make offerings to my mother's spirit.*




*ETA: these are my personal beliefs and may or may not be shared by any other Kemetic person but it's not an established Kemetic practice (that I know of) to treat deified humans as Akhu.

[Garm]

I don't think it's off topic. This was something that crossed my mind as well. It would be easy for someone to name themselves or someone as as a deity and misuse that power. Or use it for good and betterment. It could go both ways...

And I forgot all the pharaohs of Egypt would fit the deified mortal role as well as they were seen as gods. And the Japanese emperor(s) as well, the family lines said to trace back to Amaterasu.

I guess if I were living in those times, it wouldn't seem so strange to me. I couldn't imagine worshiping a human being that was alive still or recently died. Honoring ancestors is one thing, but it seems these deified mortals were seen as gods, given offerings, prayers, temples, statues, etc.

That's just the state usurping a function that's best left to the private sector

[Tuzi]

It's an interesting notion, and I suppose one of the questions asked should be: how did the original gods come to be, whatever the pantheon, and did time pass between the first generation, and a later generation. If that's answered, then it might be possible to surmise the logic in the gradations. For instance, the Greek pantheon begins, in some cosmologies, with primordial Chaos, and splits into rudimentary forces: Tartarus, Eros, and I believe Gaia, which quickly multiply to Erebos, Aither, Nyx, and others, all being expressions of the physical world [the origin, the land, night, light, darkness, etc. ], or an expression of a prominent non-physical concept, such as love. In those listed, there's only found things relating to the primal environment, things which are apparent. Then with later generations, more developed concepts are embodied: Forethought, Afterthought, Inspiration, Victory, Defeat, Fear; some represented or patroned by titans, others by daimones. It might show the needs of the people at the time, and an appropriate deity being either 'created' or stepping forward, depending on one's opinion, to meet those needs. What's the point in a deity such as Poseidon supplying himself to a people who couldn't properly patron him? There's no sea, neither did they have horses in their earlier days [I believe], so their development might not have been able to facilitate worship.

So, if one goes on the thought that the deities step forward as needed, then perhaps should a need present itself, and a human, in their lifetime, already encapsulated that need, it might make sense for an individual with a preexisting relationship to that civilization to take up that need. It would have a greater impact, be more readily accepted, etc.

Other deified mortals that come to mind are Xango, from the Yoruba [ Santeria, Vodou, etc. ] pantheon, who was royalty and hung himself out of shame [ if memory serves me right... ] and Dionysus, although he was a demigod.

[NefertSatSekhmet]

I don't worship any deified humans. I treat all deified humans as part of the Ancestors/Akhu, meaning that to me, Tutankhamun (as a well known example, although any pharaoh or deified human like Imhotep would work) isn't a god. He's an Ancestor Spirit. Would that I made offerings to him, it would be the same as when I make offerings to my mother's spirit.*




*ETA: these are my personal beliefs and may or may not be shared by any other Kemetic person but it's not an established Kemetic practice (that I know of) to treat deified humans as Akhu.

This is how I treat it as well. I have images of Nefertiti and Tutankhamun on my Akhu shrine. So I do make offerings to them and honour them, but not in the same way as I do the Netjeru.

Being familiar with Catholicism, I also view deified humans pretty much the same way as Saints. You can pray to them and honour them, and such.

[Gaudior]

Interesting! I do believe in deified mortals, though I do not worship them. Ancestors, to me, would count, and even saints from Catholicism, Anglican, and Orthodox Churches (though I know they themselves do not see them in such a way, but I do :P )

[Brunhilda]

I guess it would depend on what panthenon I am honoring. If Bellona succeds in her persistence, I may end up worshipping an Emperor or two. However, I would not worship any of the Christian ones.

[phathead]

Absolutely, in our tradition there are many examples. the most well known would be that of Chango (Shango).The deified 4th Alafin of Oyo.

[Phoenix_Falls]

This is how I treat it as well. I have images of Nefertiti and Tutankhamun on my Akhu shrine. So I do make offerings to them and honour them, but not in the same way as I do the Netjeru.

Being familiar with Catholicism, I also view deified humans pretty much the same way as Saints. You can pray to them and honour them, and such.

that's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of before

[NefertSatSekhmet]

that's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of before

To me, its pretty much the same thing. Saints are deified humans, just not quite on the same level as God/Jesus. So I view other Deified Humans are sort of like special Akhu, not quite at the Level of Gods, but more powerful than personal Akhu.