German Folk Magic

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I'm part German, thus I'm part Penn Dutch, and I'm interested in learning about German Folk Magic. If anyone doesn't know who the Penn Dutch are they are Germans that came over with William Penn in the 1600's and practice a blend of Christianity and folk magic. That's as far as I know about German folk magic.

Someone told me that this path might be ideal to talk to people that might know about German Folk Magic, hex signs, and such. If anyone can help me then that would be great.

[Lilac Moon]

Here is a three part article or summary of Pow Wow practices and history. Good luck on your search. I'll be watching this thread to see what turns up and your way.

http://newworldwitchery.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/blog-post-14-%E2%80%93-an-introduction-to-pow-wow-part-i/

http://newworldwitchery.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/blog-post-15-%E2%80%93-an-introduction-to-pow-wow-part-ii/

http://newworldwitchery.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/blog-post-16-an-introduction-to-pow-wow-part-iii/

[herbal_legends]

I'm currently attempting to research German Folk Magic as well. I'm a native German and know nothing about it (my family in Germany are serious Lutherans). If I do find anything, I'll return to this thread to provide an update. :thumbsup:

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Thanks, both of you. It's hard to do research when there's hardly nothing out there or the people with the knowledge are tight lipped.

[wyrd_dottir]

Unfortunately I am no expert in this area at all. But a search of amazon yielded the following texts. Since I haven't read them I cannot give any sort of personal recommendations or insights on them, but perhaps they may be useful in your explorations.


Hex Signs: Pennsylvania Dutch Barn Symbols & Their Meaning (http://www.amazon.com/Hex-Signs-Pennsylvania-Symbols-Meaning/dp/0811727998/ref=sr_1_14?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285606745&sr=8-14) by Don Yoder & Thomas Graves
Hex and Spellwork: The Magical Practices of the Pennsylvania Dutch (http://www.amazon.com/Hex-Spellwork-Magical-Practices-Pennsylvania/dp/1578631823/ref=sr_1_22?s=STORE&ie=UTF8&qid=1285606888&sr=8-22)by Karl Herr
Folk-Lore of the Pennsylvania Germans (http://www.amazon.com/Folk-Lore-Pennsylvania-Germans-Forgotten-Books/dp/1605060410/ref=pd_sim_b_1) by W. Hoffman

Additionally, among the Asatru community there is a specific group of practitioners that come from a Pennyslvania Dutch background, but who worship as pagans. They occassionally will post on yahoogroups NorthEastAsatru Mailing List (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NortheastAsatru). You might try subscribing and searching through the archives for their posts. The list doesn't really talk about PD traditions much, so you want to find that particular group and contact them directly for insights.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I'm actually having my brother, though I asked him kindly, order the book "Hex and Spellcraft' by Karl Herr. It's great that another person has recommended the book. I'm going to get the others in due time. Also thanks for the recommendation. Sometimes it's really hard to find any information on what you really want to find out.

[LadyDryad]

I practice a mixture of Christianity and folk magic, but don't really have any specific books on the combination of the two. A lot of knowledge has been passed down in my family, so it's not recorded anywhere.

Have you tried putting "German folk magic" into Google and seeing what comes up?

[Sekhmet Soul30]

No, but thanks for the suggestion. I'm writing it down and will google it.

[LadyDryad]

If you have any specific questions, you can ask me...I might know the answers, depending on what it is.

[herbal_legends]

Okay so this whole time when i read Pow Wow I was thinking of native american Pow Wows....but I realize that the Penn Dutch Pow Wow is separate from the Native American one.

Anyways I got this off of Wiki so I'm sure you have read this already but I thought I would add it here:




Origin of the name and practices

Its name comes from the book Pow-wows, or, The Long Lost Friend, written by John George Hohman and first published in German as Der Lange Verborgene Freund in 1820. Despite the appropriation of "pow-wow", taken from an Algonquian word for a gathering of medicine men, the collection is actually a very traditional collection of European magic spells, recipes, and folk remedies of a type familiar to students of folklore. The formulas mix prayers, magic words, and simple rituals to cure simple domestic ailments and rural troubles.

Hexwork

The tradition is also called hex or hex work, or Speilwerk in Pennsylvania Dutch; its adepts are hexenmeisters. The tradition of Hex signs painted on Pennsylvania barns in some areas originally relates to this tradition, as the symbols were pentagrams thought to have talismanic properties; though many current hex signs are made simply for decoration.

Also important to the pow-wow practitioner were the Kyle Amberman th Books of Moses]], books brought to the United States from Germany which contain cabalistic ceremonial magic supposedly known by Moses and used by him to obtain magical powers and command over spirits. Actually, Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses were apparently compiled by Johann Scheible in 19th century Germany.

Another characteristic practice of pow-wow magic is the Himmelsbrief or "heaven's letter" and Teufelsbrief, a "devil's letter," which presumably is meant to bestow a curse.

Significantly, the Long Lost Friend assures its owner that:
Whoever carries this book with him, is safe from all his enemies, visible or invisible; and whoever has this book with him cannot die without the holy corpse of Jesus Christ, nor drowned in any water, nor burn up in any fire, nor can any unjust sentence be passed upon him. So help me.

A 1988 film, "Apprentice to Murder," stars Donald Sutherland as "Pow-Wow" doctor John Reese, and Chad Lowe as his young apprentice Lucas Haas. Reese practices the folk magic rituals in a small Pennsylvanian town which the residents believe has fallen under a curse. The film makes use of the "Pow Wows or the Long Lost Friend" cited above.

[herbal_legends]

If you go to Amazon and type in Hex Craft you can get a decent list of books

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Hex+Craft&x=0&y=0

[MonSno_LeeDra]

What I find sad in this whole thread is the very fact "Germany" didn't exist as a country at the time the German speaking immagrants came to the US. It was a German confederation of states or less. So to find the "Germanic" influence one has to find out which are they came from. I know for me many came from Baden and Bavaria which today includes parts of Southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wggerman/map/germanconf.htm

http://www.progenealogists.com/germany/images/1700gerem.jpg

http://www.progenealogists.com/germany/images/1700GerAm.jpg

http://www.progenealogists.com/germany/germaps.htm

[Tiberias]

Well, yes and no. Germany was not a nation state in the 1600's, you are correct. But that doesn't mean that there was no vaguely geographic and cultural entity that could be (and was) called Germany at that point in time. The differences between, say, Bremen and Mecklenburg were largely political.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Yeah but to trace folk practices you have to know where they came from and to do that you need to know how "Germany" arose from the Holy Roman Empire, Hapsburg Empire, German confederation of states, etc and what areas were what. And there were more than just political difference between many of the various states and princedoms. Heck there is even a significant difference between High German (Northern Germany) and Low German (Southern Germany)

[herbal_legends]

Well, yes and no. Germany was not a nation state in the 1600's, you are correct. But that doesn't mean that there was no vaguely geographic and cultural entity that could be (and was) called Germany at that point in time. The differences between, say, Bremen and Mecklenburg were largely political.

I agree.

And when I describe something as "German" I mean anything that involved people of Germanic origin (people who spoke German, etc.).

As much as some hate to admit it....they're all Germans...just in different "countries". My grandfather was technically an Austrian and my Grandmother came from the German speaking part of Czechoslovakia before Hitler occupied that area and made it Germany....but they call themselves GERMAN. The borders changed so much it's too much energy to focus on it. lol

[~Elise~]

Anything by Don Yoder is excellent. There is actually an email list of powwow people that I used to belong to. I'll send you a link when I go find it. might be a few days, however.

[LadyDryad]

I agree.

And when I describe something as "German" I mean anything that involved people of Germanic origin (people who spoke German, etc.).

As much as some hate to admit it....they're all Germans...just in different "countries". My grandfather was technically an Austrian and my Grandmother came from the German speaking part of Czechoslovakia before Hitler occupied that area and made it Germany....but they call themselves GERMAN. The borders changed so much it's too much energy to focus on it. lol

I agree as well.

There are lots of Germans in Europe that aren't part of "Germany," but that doesn't make them any less German. Their origins are the same (for a lot of them), and just because they are now located somewhere outside the country doesn't mean they aren't Germans anymore. People can't change their ancestry and background.

Ok...that made a lot more sense in my head than it does now that I've typed it out...hope it's understandable!

[MonSno_LeeDra]

But it's not about Germans persay it's about Penn Dutch with Germanic influnences. To discover that one has to know where they came from and what folk traditions they brough with them. Where they Dunkers for instance which was different than other groups. Where they Prussians, which was still different in the folk traditions they brough over.

To do otherwise is equal to saying there all Americans and there is no difference in folk traditions between the South, the Mid Atlantic, the Northern States of the Plains and Western States. Even to narrow it down one can not say the folk traditions of the Blue ridge line is the same as the Smokies or the coastal plains of the deeper south.

[herbal_legends]

But it's not about Germans persay it's about Penn Dutch with Germanic influnences. To discover that one has to know where they came from and what folk traditions they brough with them. Where they Dunkers for instance which was different than other groups. Where they Prussians, which was still different in the folk traditions they brough over.

To do otherwise is equal to saying there all Americans and there is no difference in folk traditions between the South, the Mid Atlantic, the Northern States of the Plains and Western States. Even to narrow it down one can not say the folk traditions of the Blue ridge line is the same as the Smokies or the coastal plains of the deeper south.

I see where you're getting at but how deep into the past do you really need to go? For instance, Hex signs were derived from the Old World, brought from Germany and Switzerland by German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania (i.e. Pennsylvania Dutch or Deutsch)

What I can get out of what I've read is that it's just a mix of the typical German/Swiss traditions brought to America and made their own. I think it is highly unlikely to narrow it down to a certain location. It's a mesh of different family traditions unified into what we now see it today. Unless we're historians, I don't see the use in really finding out who was the first person to ever do folk magic in Germany.

To dive any deeper would probably require us to read old German texts which are not easily accessible. Most things were passed from generation to generation and we may not really have the nitty gritty details unless we have been lucky enough to receive these details from our relatives...and even then it's unique to each family.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

But it's so much more that you can deduce or understand the hows and whys of their practices. Many times the area one settled in was similiar to the area they left. The family groups that move together often tied together for many generations.

Yes it is difficult I admit that.

My man line is of Scots - Irish descent. I know one group came from the highlands and settled in the Virginia frontier which was very similar to the area's they left. Yet I know another part settled in the piedmont section of Virginia and were from the lowlands of Scotland and held different traditions and practices. Those same highland Scots were influenced by the Native peoples they encountered and incorporated many of thier practices. Yet knowning where, when and sometimes why makes it easier to see what was brought, what was aquired and what was changed to match the area.

But I am a genealogist and historian so those are things that stand out to me.

[LadyDryad]

What I can get out of what I've read is that it's just a mix of the typical German/Swiss traditions brought to America and made their own. I think it is highly unlikely to narrow it down to a certain location. It's a mesh of different family traditions unified into what we now see it today. Unless we're historians, I don't see the use in really finding out who was the first person to ever do folk magic in Germany.

To dive any deeper would probably require us to read old German texts which are not easily accessible. Most things were passed from generation to generation and we may not really have the nitty gritty details unless we have been lucky enough to receive these details from our relatives...and even then it's unique to each family.


This.

In my family there are lots of things that have been passed down. I'm sure they're not 100% unique to our family, but definitely not the same as what has been passed down in lots of other families.

I would love to get my hands on some of those old German texts though, just for informational reading.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

It's great to see this thread take off. I'm enjoying everyone's take on the Germans and some of your posts about the Pennsylvania Dutch. However one thing is very clear, we can thank William Penn for saving those that were different.