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DiscordianKitten
September 30th, 2010, 06:19 AM
I really hope this question hasn't been asked yet, because I couldn't find it and i don't want to be a spammer.

I was raised in a very intellectual Christian family - one that would run circles around any atheist intellectual trying to "prove" their beliefs with science. I grew up studying Christian apologetics and learning to respect a Christian who can give a good, intelligent answer to any question of their faith. Even now, i visit my old Church now and then and challenge the pastors, who I must say bear my questions amazingly well and answer with the love and rationality I respect in a Christian. Basically these are the 3 qualities i respect in a Christian and enjoy seeing:

1. The Christian love that comes with a true relationship with God. This one I find to be the rarest. It's when even as a non believer I look at them and know there's something different in their lives that make them something extraordinary.
2. Faithfulness to their beliefs - even when they might not personally like them, i enjoy seeing a Christian who will back God and the Bible up and not try to make these things back up their own beliefs.
3. Good, solid intellect and rationality. They don't have to be clever, they just have to show they really embrace their path with their mind as well as their hearts.

I've noticed there are a lot of Christian witches on this forum, and I must ask this question, without meaning disrespect or any indication that I don't consider you a Christian if you answer negatively - this is your path after all, not mine. I'm merely curious.

Are any of you Biblical Christians - i.e. is the Bible the written basis for your faith and do you believe it is the inspired Word of God?

And no, this is not a steel trap question where i'm going to ask you how you can be witches if the Bible's so against it. The research I've done has indicated the Bible is not against magic, merely certain practices if anything.

If the answer is no, for example if you take the very popular view that the Bible is incomplete and, after all, a work of man not God, then what is the basis for your faith and how do you know when something is from God and when something is not? And also why is your answer no?

If the answer is yes, then what are your beliefs regarding the interpretation of anti-witchcraft passages in the Bible? I believe they are bad interpretations where the blanket name of witchcraft is used for a lot of very specific other practices, but i would like to know if anyone else believes this and if there's any research that you could share with me.

Silverwing
October 1st, 2010, 02:41 PM
While I would not necessarily call myself a Christian Witch, I do strongly believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. This is not to say I take the Bible literally word for word to be true, however - while the word of God is always true, the Bible was physically written by imperfect human authors who used imperfect language. I look more at the spirit of the stories than the literal wording, if that makes sense.

Having been raised Catholic, I was always taught to believe in school that any kind of witchcraft was evil. However, a few months ago I found a wonderful article by Rawna Moon about the translation of the word 'witchcraft' in the King James Bible: http://web.archive.org/web/20060111050454/members.aol.com/RawnaMoon/bible.html
This article is the best I've come across that defends modern witchcraft from falling into the 'evil' category. My understanding of these passages has changed; I now believe that what the Bible actually prohibits is the use of power (magical or otherwise) to twist and abuse others. When these versions of the Bible were written, the best word the authors could come up with was 'witchcraft' to convey the message.

Kalioppee
January 16th, 2011, 03:10 PM
I really hope this question hasn't been asked yet, because I couldn't find it and i don't want to be a spammer.

I was raised in a very intellectual Christian family - one that would run circles around any atheist intellectual trying to "prove" their beliefs with science. I grew up studying Christian apologetics and learning to respect a Christian who can give a good, intelligent answer to any question of their faith. Even now, i visit my old Church now and then and challenge the pastors, who I must say bear my questions amazingly well and answer with the love and rationality I respect in a Christian. Basically these are the 3 qualities i respect in a Christian and enjoy seeing:

1. The Christian love that comes with a true relationship with God. This one I find to be the rarest. It's when even as a non believer I look at them and know there's something different in their lives that make them something extraordinary.
2. Faithfulness to their beliefs - even when they might not personally like them, i enjoy seeing a Christian who will back God and the Bible up and not try to make these things back up their own beliefs.
3. Good, solid intellect and rationality. They don't have to be clever, they just have to show they really embrace their path with their mind as well as their hearts.

I've noticed there are a lot of Christian witches on this forum, and I must ask this question, without meaning disrespect or any indication that I don't consider you a Christian if you answer negatively - this is your path after all, not mine. I'm merely curious.

Are any of you Biblical Christians - i.e. is the Bible the written basis for your faith and do you believe it is the inspired Word of God?

And no, this is not a steel trap question where i'm going to ask you how you can be witches if the Bible's so against it. The research I've done has indicated the Bible is not against magic, merely certain practices if anything.

If the answer is no, for example if you take the very popular view that the Bible is incomplete and, after all, a work of man not God, then what is the basis for your faith and how do you know when something is from God and when something is not? And also why is your answer no?

If the answer is yes, then what are your beliefs regarding the interpretation of anti-witchcraft passages in the Bible? I believe they are bad interpretations where the blanket name of witchcraft is used for a lot of very specific other practices, but i would like to know if anyone else believes this and if there's any research that you could share with me.

DK

But I must tell you.. I am not one of those who can quote passages left and right, I can only tell you what I remember and do my best to look it up to quote it.

I do believe that the Bible is inspired word of God but it was written by humans, and it has been interpreted way out of context now. Example I now am studying the Eastern Orthodox and they use the KJV for English speaking people but suggest that you get their KJV study bible because it has notes as to the Orthodox way of interpretation and they are still after I believe 15 years working on a bible in the English version.

As for witchcraft - I look at the things that Jesus did and what he said.

Jesus talks about faith and belief, and able to move mountains. I believe in this and am working to attain this in my life, that type of faith and belief.

John 14:12 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. Some other things he did was change water to wine, John 2:4.
He Walked on water, he did many healing of the sick described in the bible. In Acts 1:15-26 Lots are thrown to pick a new apostle. What is throwing lots? It is a choice by chance.
There is talk about gifts which include many things that we work with in witchcraft. So it is from these areas that I draw from.

I am not sure if this is what you are looking for but I believe I answered this well for myself.

Kal

perceval23
January 18th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Well, let's look at the term "witch", and keep it in context. It didn't mean "Pagans". "Witch" is a relatively recent term Neo-Pagans have taken for themselves. They did this, at first, based on the theories of Margaret Murray, who argued that there was an underground "witch cult" that had survived for centuries. It turned out her conclusions were off the mark by quite a bit, since she only looked at the witch trials and various practices kept by families and groups. She should have looked into where those family and group practices came from, which were various Mystery traditons within Christianity.

Neo-Pagan practices draw heavily from Wicca and Thelema. Wicca and Thelema draw heavily from the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (Thelema's founder, Crowley, was a member of that group). The Golden Dawn, in turn, is based in Christian Freemasonry, which is based in Christian Alchemy. Alchemy combined Celtic Christianity, Jewish Kabbalah, Islamic Sufism, and Hermetic and Gnostic concepts and traditions. You'll find these influences in pretty much everything in modern Neo-Paganism.

So, "witch" didn't mean in the Bible what it means to Neo-Pagans. There was plenty of magic in the Bible. Take the building of the Temple in Jerusalem, for example (a big thing in Alchemy based traditions). In the presentation of Jesus at the Temple, it was the prophetess St. Anna who explained the importance of this baby. It seems intent and how you did something was what defined things. Calling upon God for help or guidance, then your intent happening, was good.

It also must be stressed that while Christianity's roots are in Judaism, it's not Jewish, and hasn't been since it spread beyond the Jewish people. As soon as it was no longer about one ethnicity and culture, it became more Universalist, and it's development reflected that. It's more European, and reflects the various ancient European cultures that developed it. And, depending on the culture...

In Celtic tradition, for example, there was a lot of magic in the Mythology. St. Patrick escaped the High King's armies pretty much the same way Amergin dealt with the Tuatha De Danann. He eventually proved himself by winning a contest of magic with the Druids. There's the feats of St. Brigid. There's how the Fair Folk and their Otherworld were vital to the Celtic system, as seen in the original version of the Holy Grail myth, with the Grail kept in the Fairyland of Avalon, protected by a sacred Sisterhood of Fae.

Oh, and something should be said about the Apocrypha and what are called the Gnostic Gospels. Those aren't part of the official Canon, but are considered useful. In other words, they're not what you have to follow in Christianity, but you're free to study and learn from them.