Out of the Broom Closet (Re-Visited)

[mol]

Ok. I created a new topic because the transferred thread is just a little tedious to read through...but at least it is there for reference.


Here is the last quote from Niamh


The proverbial closet!
MM, All!
This is a tough one... yes and no? I can discuss my path with various people with whom I am close, but my parents and most family members do not know. I have not made it a point to tell them. However, I am growing less and less "careful" about what I say in front of them. I feel that as time goes by and I express my views more readily (as opposed to just keeping my mouth shut and listening) they'll figure things out on thier own! I think that will be the best way for them to "find out."

As we grow more comfortable in our Path we do choose to be a little more outgoing with it! I have noticed this myself. Earlier i said that I choose not to tell my Mother about my Path, but that doesnt mean I hide it from her. In fact, our whole house is a shrine to Paganism but she still doesnt seem to notice. Or maybe she does and just doesnt say anything.

Blessings.

[ravens eye]

I have not told anyone except my boyfriend and my bestfriend (who was into it too for awhile, but I think she was doing it for the wrong reasons, she thought it was 'cool' and wanted to do a bunch of spells, without really looking into what it was about.....) my family does not know, though I think my dad has an inkling, with all the pagan websites bookmarked, and the books in my room....But besides that I don't tell ppl....It's not something I am ashamed of, It's just not something I feel should be 'out there' just yet.....

-Krissy

[mol]

I said it...Ravens Eye said it...a lot of people have said it in this thread.

I am starting to wonder why? Maybe its fear? I know I say that I dont want to cause 'harm' to my Mother by telling her, but maybe that is a cop out.

Time to dig deeper.

[Lynnaea]

When I was new to the idea of considering myself a witch, I was afraid to tell others. I practiced alone for many years and did my rituals solitary when I could. After meeting others I became braver, first I told my sister. She said, " I know, I have known you for 40 years and I always knew you were a witch". I think she meant that in a nice way :-) Now, my ex-husband always said I was a witch, but not in a nice way.
My 2 daughters were unsure, but they know how eccentric I am and took it well. My parents were the ones I was worried about, they were 70 at the time and attend the Methodist church. My sister gave them my web site to read.
I must say we should give our loved ones more credit.
My parents have been very understanding, and we have had some good theological discussions.

[mol]

Originally posted by Lynnaea

I must say we should give our loved ones more credit.
My parents have been very understanding and we have had some good theological discussions.

Then it is fear, maybe. Because when I think about telling my Mother i just get a weird feeling inside. My mom is Pentecostal. I just have a hard time thinking about telling her. She would believe in all her heart that I am destined for 'Hell.' And I cant have that..

[Scarlet Swan]

I have not told my parents, but they know. I really dont relate to this issue much. How many lets say Christians come right out and tell you they are Christian. None of our friend do, my parents dont, not even the guys who knock on our door from time to time come right out and say it.

Personally I dont think it matters when or if you ever come out of the closet. It is what you do, say, and how you act that matters. We try to make it a point to never discuss politics or religion. Both lines of discussion always seem to be a losing argument. Just live, and LIVE TRUE while you are at it :)

Heh, I figured out how to get those smiley faces :D and stuff.

Scarlet Swan

[Mairwen]

Am posting my original reply ~ not verbatim, but my feelings.

I have a "rant" about the Broom closet on my website. You can find it here: http://pagan.drak.net/feymariblue/broom.html ... Having said that ...

I very strongly feel that if you're in the "broom closet", you're not truly following your beliefs. You're not only "lying" to other people by not being completely truthful, you're also lying to yourself ~ and that's bad "juju" in my book. I've never been in the closet, and never intend to be. I'm even listed by my birthname at WitchVox. On flyers around the local community, I'm listed by my birthname and home telephone number. Do I live in an "open" community? Depends on your viewpoint.

If anyone replies to this, I'd like to know that you viewed my website, as well ~ there's more "broom closet" stuff there.

[Scarlet Swan]

Originally posted by Mairwen

I very strongly feel that if you're in the "broom closet", you're not truly following your beliefs.

We tend to agree with what you said. While trying to be tactful I may have missed my own point :D

However, we teach individualism, doing what is right for you. For us, coming out is not an issue while for others it is a BIG issue. Decide for yourself, but think about this;

I think Mairwen's traditional "Lesser of two evils" code(?) would be a very good approach for others concerning this issue :

Which does more harm to YOU? How the thought of telling others makes you feel about yourself (and them), or how the thought of NOT telling others makes you feel about your beliefs.

Until you decide for YOURSELF, just live and learn. What will happen always happens in time.

Scarlet Swan

[Lady Tana]

I guess you could say that I was 'out of the closet'... but that is only because I never was in the closet... When I made the realization that I was most comfortable being a 'Witch' and following that path I saw no reason for hiding it from anyone.. and, sad to say, I probably should have not been so 'open'. It did create some (stupid) problems for me with some uninformed people.. (family members included) and I was shunned by some for a while.. (my grandfather is a Christian Minister) but when they realized that I really wasnt any different then before and that I wasnt going to eat any small children or 'corrupt their morals' then everything was ok again...

One of my friends told me that it was easier to tell her parents that she was gay than to tell them she was Pagan..

and thats my 2 cents worth on that subject ... :)

[Lynnaea]

I am glad we are out with my family, we don't have to hide the stuff on the alter when they visit, but not everyone is in my situation. I'm lucky to have open minded parents.

I agree there are some people you can never, ever tell. They are just too caught up in their own small view of Deity to ever think someone of another path can be spiritual. (I know a lady that thinks anyone that is not her flavor of a Christian is a pagan and doomed to hell, including Jews, Moslems, Catholics, and most others.) I was taught that these sleeping souls should not be disturbed. We do believe after all, to HARM NONE, elderly parents might truely be harmed with their added worry for our "souls".

On the other hand, some people are ready for a little expanding of their spiritual views. You just have to trust your instincts about it. I certainly would never say, without knowing all the people personally, that staying in the broom closet is not following your beliefs.

We are also out with our best friends, and my husband is out with his boss. We told them primarily for the same reason, we have different religious holidays than they do and don't want to keep making up excuses for not being somewhere else or have them visit. To all others, it is not any of their business, I do not discuss religion with strangers, co-workers, or "known by sight" neighbors.

[mol]

Originally posted by Mairwen

I very strongly feel that if you're in the "broom closet", you're not truly following your beliefs. You're not only "lying" to other people by not being completely truthful, you're also lying to yourself ~ and that's bad "juju" in my book. I've never been in the closet, and never intend to be. I'm even listed by my birthname at WitchVox. On flyers around the local community, I'm listed by my birthname and home telephone number. Do I live in an "open" community? Depends on your viewpoint.

I disagree. And upon disagreeing I have verified that I am correct (for my Path anyway.) The strongest rule of my Path is actually borrowed from Wicca. "As it harms none.." So, with that in mind...there is no way around the fact that it would hurt my Mother to tell her. And I know my Mom...it would hurt her until the day She passed on...which in turn would hurt me. Deeply.

So, does it really make a difference to my Path if she knows or not. NO! And I dont think myself lying because I dont hide anything...I just dont put it on a billboard! Do you think our ancestors went around the village and towns announcing..."I am Witch!!"

*to the side* "Someone start the fire..."

[mol]

Originally posted by eaglewolf
Just had to step in here and smile, so...

:D



What are you smiling about? :)

[Mairwen]

Well, I don't profess we all start wearing sandwichboards with some icon of some sort of our particular faiths on them, either.

[Mairwen]

However, we teach individualism, doing what is right for you.

We teach individualism, too. If we didn't, we'd be classified as a cult. *shudder* :eek:


I think Mairwen's traditional "Lesser of two evils" code(?) would be a very good approach for others concerning this issue :

*blush*

[Lady Tana]

Originally posted by mol
Originally posted by eaglewolf
Just had to step in here and smile, so...

:D



What are you smiling about? :)

Mayhaps he was smiling about the 'lighting the fire' part of your post...

I was. ;)

[eaglewolf]

:D

[Mairwen]

:D And he talks about me and my :D?!

[eaglewolf]

Originally posted by Mairwen
:D And he talks about me and my :D?!

I wasn't talking about the :D I was talking about the fact that you kept using :biggrin: ... that went out with the old board! :)

~ew

[Mairwen]

Blonde, you know! :D

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
I don't tell people a lot about my beliefs,not everybody anyhow.I can generally tell people I believe in an "Earth based spirituality" and they're satisfied.I wear a silver pentagram around my neck.Sometimes when people ask me about it and I don't want to get into the whole thing I'll just tell 'em it's a silver star and I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan!
Peace and Love
Rain BrightStar

[Semele]

Sometimes when people ask me about it and I don't want to get into the whole thing I'll just tell 'em it's a silver star and I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan!
Peace and Love
Rain BrightStar [/B][/QUOTE]

In some circles it would be more dangerous to say that then to admit you have a dead rat in your pocket. Sports fans are brutal!!!
Semele

[sunflowerchild_20]

Unfortunately, even if I wanted to be out of the broomcloset, I couldn't be without losing the support of my friends and family. My parents are those Crazy Roman Catholic types, you know the ones, "Jesus is coming" or "Jesus saves". And my friends view Wiccans to be crazy vamire suckers. They've had some bad experiances, to say the least. My husband, however, is already Wiccan, and I'm planning to tell him soon. I know he'll be very happy.

[mol]

Originally posted by sunflowerchild_20
Unfortunately, even if I wanted to be out of the broomcloset, I couldn't be without losing the support of my friends and family. My parents are those Crazy Roman Catholic types, you know the ones, "Jesus is coming" or "Jesus saves". And my friends view Wiccans to be crazy vamire suckers. They've had some bad experiances, to say the least. My husband, however, is already Wiccan, and I'm planning to tell him soon. I know he'll be very happy.


Welcome to the Community, we are glad to have you...hope to see you here often.

[mol]

Originally posted by BrightStar
Hi all!
I don't tell people a lot about my beliefs,not everybody anyhow.I can generally tell people I believe in an "Earth based spirituality" and they're satisfied.I wear a silver pentagram around my neck.Sometimes when people ask me about it and I don't want to get into the whole thing I'll just tell 'em it's a silver star and I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan!
Peace and Love
Rain BrightStar

Cowboys Bite! Booooooooooooooooooooo!

;)

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
Hee hee.I met Roger Staubach as a child,what can I say?But really,here in oklahoma nobody bugs you too much if you say you're a football fan.But tell a Pentecostal or a Southern Baptist you're a Witch and you could find yourself being witnessed to.Some days I'm just not ready for that!
Peace and Love
Rain BrightStar

[Lynnaea]

An Earth based spirituality is a good way of explaining it. My hubby and I don't discuss religion to casual aquaintances; however, when a Jehovah's Witness came calling one day and directly asked him what religion we followed, he told him we follow an Earth religion. The guy said he had never heard of an Earth religion and wanted to know what it is. So my husband told him it is similar in some ways to the Native American religions and that we believed the Earth is a concious entity. I never saw a Jehovah's Witness leave so fast, he said, "well, it's been nice meeting you" and backed out quickly. So far we haven't been burned, so I guess all is cool.

[Phoenix Myst]

I know from experience that I have to be careful of what is said around certain family members. Most of them are from a serious relious background and so only my brother at present knows that I practice. He tells me that it is a bunch of garbage only stronger words were used so now I"m still not sure if I should go on and tell others in the family. One thing I do have to commend my brother on though is that he did decide to ask a few questions about why and what the craft is about so I've done the best I could with answering what I could and sending him to people I know can answer the other questions as well. This has seemed to gap some of the void that is there and perhaps in time it will be the turning point of things to come.

Has anyone noticed that you say witch or pagan and still the devil worship thing pops up with good friends who seem to say they know you best?

Myst

[Earth Walker]

:) Although I still get preached to from time to time,
everything is cool with most family & friends.
My broom is for sweeping only. :D
Modern conveniences...my vacuum is battery
powered...thank Goddess for the Energizer Bunny!
:bigredgri


Her Light will guide our paths. :sunny:

[Mairwen]

I was at class last night and one of the participants said something about flying off in her combustible broom. I was like, Huh? until I realized she was talking about her car. :D

[bluecat]

:cool:

[MammaStar]

I too, am not completely out of the broom closet. I don't intend to be until I move out of the place I am sharing with my Father and Step-Monster now (no that's not a mis-spelling). I am an adult, with a child, however, I have the luck to have a very kind father who likes to help their children when they hit upon hard times, and I think he wouldn't care one way or the other (i have a sneaky suspicion he knows). It's the person he's married to, who would be my problem.
Fear is a very strong emotion. It drives people to do a lot of crazy things. And I think lately the world is getting nuttier. Just read what's going on in the government these days. We have every weekend in the neighbor hood, gaggles of people walking through and knocking on doors. So to me, to worship and be happy and to protect my son, I stay in the closest.
It may not be right, but for me it's right, right now.

Just my little contribution. :D

[Lilu]

Most of them are from a serious relious background
And pagan paths aren't a serious religious background? ;) Sorry, couldn't help myself.


I think a lot of it comes down to respect. I respect your freedom to practice what you believe in. I may or may not agree with it, but I respect your RIGHT to believe it. And I expect no less from anyone, regardless of whether they are Christian, atheist or some other religion. And just because someone is christian doesn't mean that we should take special consideration in telling them. Would they, knowing you were a pagan, take special consideration shouting out all that "Jesus will save you" stuff? No.

I tell anyone who asks, what my beliefs are. I don't shout it from the rooftops, but I am not hiding them either.

But basically I don't think it's fair that anyone should have to hide their religion out of fear for what someone will think/say/feel about it.

I think we have all earned the right to say "I walk this path, and I choose to do it!"

But that's just my opinion - it's certainly not the authority on the matter :D - on one hand I don't think we should be forced to stay in the broomcloset out of fear for what others will say/think/do, but on the second hand I completely respect your choice to do so if you want to.

:sunny:
Bright Blessings
Lilu

[bluecat]

bumpity-bumpt to the top

[Celtic_Angel]

You know who I had to tell? Myself. I had to come out and admitt to myself that I will never be the perfect Catholic that I was bound and determined to become. I'm still Catholic and that isn't going to change, but some of my beliefs don't tie in with traditional catholic beliefs. I've been in denial over this for years! Sometimes I still cry over the fact that I will not be the pious, God fearing, narrow minded, evangalizing, Catholic that was my goal to become. So, it wasn't a broom closet that I had to come out of, but it was a closet none-the-less.

[Celtic_Angel]

You know who I had to tell? Myself. I had to come out and admitt to myself that I will never be the perfect Catholic that I was bound and determined to become. I'm still Catholic and that isn't going to change, but some of my beliefs don't tie in with traditional catholic beliefs. I've been in denial over this for years! Sometimes I still cry over the fact that I will not be the pious, God fearing, narrow minded, evangalizing, Catholic that was my goal to become. So, it wasn't a broom closet that I had to come out of, but it was a closet none-the-less. I was ashamed with myself and at times I still am. "Never underestimate the power of denial."-American Beauty

[bluecat]

bump

[loopy]

Originally posted by Celtic_Angel
You know who I had to tell? Myself. I had to come out and admitt to myself that I will never be the perfect Catholic that I was bound and determined to become. I'm still Catholic and that isn't going to change, but some of my beliefs don't tie in with traditional catholic beliefs. I've been in denial over this for years! Sometimes I still cry over the fact that I will not be the pious, God fearing, narrow minded, evangalizing, Catholic that was my goal to become. So, it wasn't a broom closet that I had to come out of, but it was a closet none-the-less. I was ashamed with myself and at times I still am. "Never underestimate the power of denial."-American Beauty

Aw, don't feel ashamed at all. :) It took a whole lot of courage to even admit to yourself that the whole of Catholocism isn't for you. It doesn't make you a bad person, or less than others who are strictly Catholic. On the contrary, it makes you an honest, true-to-yourself person who will able to go through life knowing that they didn't restrict themselves by refusing to admit their feelings. In the long run, it'll probably make you feel happier and more complete, and you'll probably spend much less money on therapy than any person who lies to themselves daily, whether it be about religion or anything else. :D (And, had you not realized it, you might not have gotten the oppurtunity to meet all of us loverly people here at mysticwicks! ;) )

[Methanespirit]

It has been generally found that people react to their pre-conceived notions of labels about religions and personal beliefs. When anyone states that they believe in witchcraft, this automatically brings up ideas that were popular in the Middle Ages, evil omens of black cats, old hags levitating -riding on brooms in the full-moonlight, large cauldrons of sinister steaming brew, performing destructive spells with vials of vaporizing potients, and similiar concepts. That knowing such popular ideas are automatic with most people, perhaps it is best to be diplomatic about one's personal tenets. Stating that you are interested in nature and greatly revere such (even to the point of making a religion of it) , is more publically acceptable than proclaiming that one is an Astrologer, or even a witch. How many of you remember the old Proctor and Gamble's (late 19th century) logo of a "witch-type" face in the crescent Moon? This logo appeared on all of their products. It was only recently discontinued because the modern purchasing public was afriad of it, or they didn't like it's (pagan) implications.

[widukind]

Hi All!

Sorry you can't tell your mom, Mol. I had a hard time telling my mother and father, too, since my mom was raised very Christian and my father has become weary of anything concerning philosophy or religion, so it wasn't easy.

But on the other hand, I don't exactly agree with you, either, Mairwen. I feel Mol is right when he says you can't just tell anyone as it can hurt them more than it helps you when you do.

The way my parents actually found out was through a school newspaper, in which I had written an article about Wiccans. In this article I took away some of the ignorance towards modern day witches, while referring to Wiccans as 'we', since I had written the article in my 'Wiccan days'. They had then stumbled upon the article and found out.

My mom then refused to let me buy any books about Wicca or any other kind of Paganism. She felt they would jinx the house or something. My dad felt I could spend the money on something better. :rolleyes:
The situation then worsened when a Wiccan girl in our school tried to kill herself by taking fourty (!) anti-depressiva pills and clearing hear throat with three pints of martini. They told me, "That's what you get with bad influences like witch sects".

So pardon me if I don't tell them ever again I'm now more interested in Druidry and wish to pursue it as my Spiritual Path. They:

a) would not understand 'how I can believe in such nonsense'
b) would not let me buy any books on the subject
c) have told me to my face they think I'm the type of person that's highly suscpetible to sects' tactics to acquire new members.
d) would give me more of a hassle than they themselves would think it's worth, and I will not have my parents decrease the respect I have for them themselves by acting biased towards my religious views. :(

This was quite a long one, huh? :D

Brightest Blessings !

Widukind

[widukind]

I didn't chose this name (Widukind) because I am ashamed of my real name. I am not by far. To anyone who wants to know,
my real names are Pieter Joris Jan Bryon. I live in Balen, Belgium. But just like anyone else, I don't go and proclaim this to everyone. I chose the name Widukind because I wanted a name with a meaning that appeals to me, and not such Christian names as my real first names are. I don't have a problem with Christianity, only with the fact I was forced into it. Widukind happens to mean 'child of the forest' and that's a name I can live with.

Anyways, concerning names, I personally feel given names are worth the least of all names. Higher on the ladder are chosen names, because you have a bond with those, but the best - in my respect - are earned names. One day, in my own community, I will have one of those, and I hope it won't be too easy to get, too. :D

Anyway, another piece of my mind !

Brightest Blessings !

Widukind

[Celtic_Angel]

Originally posted by loopy


Aw, don't feel ashamed at all. :) It took a whole lot of courage to even admit to yourself that the whole of Catholocism isn't for you. It doesn't make you a bad person, or less than others who are strictly Catholic. On the contrary, it makes you an honest, true-to-yourself person who will able to go through life knowing that they didn't restrict themselves by refusing to admit their feelings. In the long run, it'll probably make you feel happier and more complete, and you'll probably spend much less money on therapy than any person who lies to themselves daily, whether it be about religion or anything else. :D (And, had you not realized it, you might not have gotten the oppurtunity to meet all of us loverly people here at mysticwicks! ;) )

Thank you Loopy! :D It hasn't been easy knowing that God obviously had a different plan than mine. :rolleyes: I tried so hard to rebel agianst that and it never seemed to quite work out for me. Since I have come mostly to terms with what I won't become, I feel closer to God and closer to myself. :) When it comes to being here at MW, that was because I was humoring a couple of friends of mine. I had no real interest in this community and knew that I would never become an active member. :rolleyes: Shows you what I know!!! :p I love this place! :D

[Dria El]

Originally posted by BrightStar
Hi all!
I don't tell people a lot about my beliefs,not everybody anyhow.I can generally tell people I believe in an "Earth based spirituality" and they're satisfied.I wear a silver pentagram around my neck.Sometimes when people ask me about it and I don't want to get into the whole thing I'll just tell 'em it's a silver star and I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan!
Peace and Love
Rain BrightStar

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! cowboys BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Dria El]

Originally posted by sunflowerchild_20
Unfortunately, even if I wanted to be out of the broomcloset, I couldn't be without losing the support of my friends and family. My parents are those Crazy Roman Catholic types, you know the ones, "Jesus is coming" or "Jesus saves". And my friends view Wiccans to be crazy vamire suckers. They've had some bad experiances, to say the least. My husband, however, is already Wiccan, and I'm planning to tell him soon. I know he'll be very happy.


Welcome sunflowerchild!!! Glad to see you made it to the boards!!!

[Yvonne Belisle]

bump

[Sequoia]

I'm "out of the closet." I figure it's my choice and if anyone wants to know I really don't care. ^^; it doesn't matter to me if they know. See, if they were people I wanted to know in the first place, they would be open-minded.. . . and if they just go "O.O! YOU'RE WHAT?!?!!?" and freak out and leave early on, well I know I would've had bad experiences with them! hehe

but I don't try to be blatent about it either. I mean, there's not many people running around going "I'M A CHRISTIAN! I'M A CHRISTIAN!! I'M A GOSH DANGED FERVERENT CHRISTIAN!!!" LOL I don't go around "Hi, I'm Beth, I'm Pagan." any more than anyone else goes "Hi, I'm Joe Smith, I'm Catholic/Jewish/Muslim/Buddist/etc" you know? And sometimes I know to keep my mouth shut. . .ex: my grandma gets panick attacks, and I was going to her birthday party. I have no CLUE how she'd react if she saw me wearing a pentacle, so out of respect to her I took it off. another ex: I had forgotton my wallet at home, and a woman on the bus was kindly enough to give me bus fare to and from school. I was very thankful. And then she said "here, it's a gift to you from Jesus." . . . and that kinda knocked me off kilter for a moment, but I smiled and nodded happily and thankfully. See, although I'm not christian anymore, and sometimes I feel smothered by some fanatical's whole auras (I dono, maybe it's just me LOL), I still am not going to go "eeeww Jesus? I don't belive in that guy!!! jeeze!! what's your problem?" I mean, this lady was kind enough to do this for me, and if she wishes to do so in the name of her god, I have no problem with it, personally. Then again, I consider the christian god (or gods lol depending on what sect you ask. . . ) to be just as valid as any, so basically for me it's just one more god not angry with me ^^;; positive thing, ne?

Basically, I think it just takes respect all along.

er. . . where was I?

-_-; here I am a mod, and I'm rambling off-topic-ish. . .

~~*MOD MODE*~~
Puma Hime! Knock it off!!

. . . yes, me :D

[Yvonne Belisle]

Actually Puma that example of the bus fare is a perfect example of practicing what you preach. The Term Christian Charity is due to people following the example that Christ set in his life. Now if only more of them followed it perhaps there would be less hostility between various religous groups.

[Milly]

Thats for me anyway. My family knows and so does my two closet friends but as for the wider community a big 'no'.
I live in Christian town and the preist at my school is always going on about how evil it is to do witchcraft and numerous other things. I don't say anything to anyone because they don't ask and what would happen if i did. The school priest would probable start throwing holy water over my head and the people well lets just say they call other people witches to upset them. I know of a group that went to my school left before i came and people were always telling them there'd burn in hell, not exactly my idea of fun.
Am i lying to myself about who i am? No i don't believe i am, just because i don't pronounce to the world what my believes are doesn't make one less wiccan or pagan IMHO.

:heartthroMilly:heartthro

[Sequoia]

exactly, Milly. Exactly.

LMAO I love your signature.

[Milly]

Thanks puma :thumbsup: