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SarahFair
October 16th, 2010, 08:30 PM
Being a Celtic holiday when did christains take over it and claim its a day to celebrate their devil?

lightdragon
October 16th, 2010, 10:12 PM
Being a Celtic holiday when did christains take over it and claim its a day to celebrate their devil?

http://www.neopagan.net/Halloween-Origins.html

Sesen
October 18th, 2010, 01:33 AM
http://www.neopagan.net/Halloween-Origins.html


Bologna...Halloween is an invention of the devil and candy manufacturers engaged in a deeply satanic conspiracy to spread cavities among our youth. The conspiracy began with dark sacrafices offered by the Olmec civilization to the devil in his role as Lord of the Cocoa Bean. Today devilish sweets have overrun western civilization and Halloween is the devils night when she sends forth her demonic children to fill the bellies of costumed Cinderellas and Mark Twains. Chocolate is a sinful pleasure. Indulge at your own risk.

SarahFair
October 18th, 2010, 09:21 AM
Bologna...Halloween is an invention of the devil and candy manufacturers engaged in a deeply satanic conspiracy to spread cavities among our youth. The conspiracy began with dark sacrafices offered by the Olmec civilization to the devil in his role as Lord of the Cocoa Bean. Today devilish sweets have overrun western civilization and Halloween is the devils night when she sends forth her demonic children to fill the bellies of costumed Cinderellas and Mark Twains. Chocolate is a sinful pleasure. Indulge at your own risk.
Please tell me you dont believe this.....

Gaudior
October 18th, 2010, 09:33 AM
Please tell me you dont believe this.....

I think he was just joking :toofless:

DesertLibyan
October 18th, 2010, 10:21 AM
I dont think that Halloween is the sole purpose the christians saying that pagans were worshiping the devil.

This came just from the pure fact that the christians were trying to convert them and they said the horned one was their devil. This kept people from getting interested in paganism although this isnt the case at all.

SarahFair
October 18th, 2010, 10:22 AM
I think he was just joking :toofless:
It sounded much like the line out of Hocus Pocus :)


But everyone here knows that Halloween
was invented by the candy companies.

skilly-nilly
October 18th, 2010, 11:41 AM
Being a Celtic holiday when did christains take over it and claim its a day to celebrate their devil?

Unlike most of the other Pre-Xian Holidays, Samhain is not easily translated into an Xian Holy Day (ie, the Winter Solstice becomes Xmass, The Vernal Equinox becomes Easter) although the Catholic Church tried with All Saints and All Souls Days.

The old traditions involve both Ancestors (all souls) and Heros (all saints) visiting from the Otherworld as well as not-well-intentioned Spirits. From the Church's pov, it's easy to conflate 'not-well-intentioned' with the Devil. The other parts of the tradition; not visiting, not letting anyone cross the threshold, disguising yourself if you had to be out, making tumshie lanterns, turned out to be very hard to eradicate. And once the candy-makers got involved it was destined to be a societal holiday for all time.

Brunhilda
October 21st, 2010, 05:39 PM
I want to add that All Saint's Day is also Reformation Day, a holiday observed by Lutheran and some other Protestant groups. Some Christians observe that instead of Halloween.

kagekarasu
October 21st, 2010, 09:03 PM
I want to add that All Saint's Day is also Reformation Day, a holiday observed by Lutheran and some other Protestant groups. Some Christians observe that instead of Halloween.

Yups. The thing is Halloween is actual dusk of the 31st until dusk of Nov. 1st, making it not just one day. That's how it became called All Hallow's Eve. Then there's All saints day to cover the rest of Halloween and All Soul's Day aka Dia de los Muertos.

I personally celebrate all 3 days^_^

omar
November 2nd, 2010, 02:53 PM
The Catholic Pope changed all the Christian holly days in 354 AD in order to try to get Pagans to observe there holly days. All Hallows Eve,the 31st of Oct. & Nov.1st All Dead Saints Day. To honor the dead saints.

Eldritch Cantrip
November 2nd, 2010, 04:37 PM
The traditional explaination is that this is due to the conflation between the devil and a horned deity of hunting and herding originating back in proto-Indo-European religion. The Gaelic festival of Samhain which the Christian establishment co-opted as "All Hallow's Eve" originally marked the transition point between years in the Pagan calendar. Originally Samhain was the day in the old phrase "a year and a day" since a thirteen month lunar year equals 364 days, wheras the solar year amounts to 365 days, the extra day falling between the end of the old year and the begining of the new year was Samhain. As Samhain occurs at the end or "death" of the old year and marks the begining of Winter at the start of the new year, the day was seen as being heavily associated with death. Herds of horned pasture animals would often be slaughtered for meat at this time of year to last through the winter season when crops did not grow, and hunting was largely conducted during the winter as well in order to supplement the food supply. Since many ancient European pagan religions had a horned god (Pan, Faunus, Cernunnos, Herne, etc.) who was associated with horned animals and their herding/hunting, it is thought that Samhain may have become associated with this deity because the killing of animals occurred during the winter when the earth and agricultural crops were dying; thus the pagan horned god came to also sometimes be viewed as a god of death and the underworld, a role similar to that of the devil. Hell itself takes its name from a pre-Christian Pagan designation for one on the realms of the dead in Nordic/Germanic mythology, a region named for Hel or Hella, the daughter of Loki. In pagan mythology, the underworld was not a place of punishment, but merely a ghostly plane of existence. When the Bible was translated into English, the word Hell was used in place of the original Hebrew word Sheol meaning "the grave" in the Old Testament, and in the New Testament Hell was used in place of the word Hades (the Greeks' name for their underworld abode of the souls of the dead).

Faunus
December 22nd, 2010, 11:01 PM
One also has to factor in that Anton LaVey, upon launching Satanism as an organized religion in 1966, made Halloween one of the most important holidays for Satanists to celebrate. When the "Satanic Panic" began taking hold in the 80's, many paranoid Christians really began decrying Halloween as the "Devil's Holiday". From that all kinds of urban legends began to grow regarding Satanists supposedly abducting children on Halloween night, people putting razor blades in candy, etc. - none of which was true.

Now, I'm not saying that's the sole reason, or that Christians weren't already thinking of Halloween as a Satanic holiday before LaVey - I'm just saying to some of them, his pronouncement and the formation of Satanism helped exacerbate that thought.

lightdragon
December 22nd, 2010, 11:32 PM
Now, I'm not saying that's the sole reason, or that Christians weren't already thinking of Halloween as a Satanic holiday before LaVey - I'm just saying to some of them, his pronouncement and the formation of Satanism helped exacerbate that thought.

I kinda disagree that LaVey had anything in the formation of it.

The following link provides halloween decor from the 1940's. and i believe there was some decor going back to either 1910's or 1920's that were popular in Germany. so there was some association with devils at that time.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1940s-vintage-halloween-paper-mache-devil

Faunus
December 23rd, 2010, 12:49 PM
I kinda disagree that LaVey had anything in the formation of it.

The following link provides halloween decor from the 1940's. and i believe there was some decor going back to either 1910's or 1920's that were popular in Germany. so there was some association with devils at that time.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1940s-vintage-halloween-paper-mache-devil


Oh, I agree it goes back further than LaVey - I just meant that his naming Halloween as a Satanic holiday helped contribute to the hysteria about it that really went into overdrive in the 1980's.

lightdragon
December 23rd, 2010, 03:09 PM
Oh, I agree it goes back further than LaVey - I just meant that his naming Halloween as a Satanic holiday helped contribute to the hysteria about it that really went into overdrive in the 1980's.
oh that's possible. But the Satanic panic in the 1980's was mainly made up of some Christian fundies looking to make a buck at it by selling stories to the tabloids and writing books. Also it would be more possible that LaVey was influenced by it. As there was a Devil's night/mischief night in the States as early as the 1930's.

Lady Tara
December 23rd, 2010, 04:50 PM
The Christians have ALWAYS tried to push their devil into anything different, sweetie.

Phoenix Blue
December 23rd, 2010, 05:25 PM
The Christians have ALWAYS tried to push their devil into anything different, sweetie.
Watch the path-bashing comments, please.

Lady Tara
December 23rd, 2010, 09:07 PM
I am sorry about that. Please accept my apology.

perceval23
February 25th, 2011, 05:34 AM
I dont think that Halloween is the sole purpose the christians saying that pagans were worshiping the devil.

This came just from the pure fact that the christians were trying to convert them and they said the horned one was their devil. This kept people from getting interested in paganism although this isnt the case at all.

Actually, the Horned God and Triple Goddess only date back to the 20th Century. Ancient Europeans did not worship a Horned God and Triple Goddess. The only god from ancient times that was viewed as both a Solar and Nature deity, sometimes depicted with antlers in art was... Christ. Solar and Nature gods tended to be separate, before then.

Had to throw that out there, since the term "pure fact" was used for an untrue declaration, much like the declaration that Wiccans worship the Devil is "pure fact". Be careful when it comes to Dogma.

All Saints Day and All Souls Day developed in Asia Minor, and therefore had nothing to do with the Irish Samhain. What would they have cared in Asia Minor about some island far to the north? As for the pre-Christian version of Samhain, itself... We don't know much about it, really. All we know about the old Druidic practices is what survived into Celtic Christianity, and that, even the Mythology, came to us through a Celtic Christian filter. For all we actually know, the Festival of the Dead aspect of Samhain may have been a Christian addition, due to it coinciding with All Saints and All Souls.

Not that our modern Halloween has much to do with any of that. The Day of the Dead, practiced in Catholic Latin American cultures, does, but Halloween is mainly about dressing up and going to parties, or the kids trick-or-treating.

Are there some whack jobs claiming to be Christians (or, more accurately, folks who see a buck to be made fleecing whack jobs) railing against Halloween? Sure. These are the same folks who rant about the evil threat of Scooby-Doo cartoons. They are no more representative of Christians than those Neo-Nazis that go on about worshipping Wotan are representatives of Neo-Paganism.

Umbress
February 28th, 2011, 01:20 AM
When did the Devil come into Halloween

When Christians put him there - for what ever reason. My guess is they needed an adversary and said adversary needed his own special day.

{shrug}

perceval23
February 28th, 2011, 03:00 AM
When Christians put him there - for what ever reason. My guess is they needed an adversary and said adversary needed his own special day.

{shrug}

Again, what a few hate filled whack jobs have to say in their efforts to fleece the gullible has nothing to do with Christianity or Christians. And, again, it's like describing those Neo-Nazis that go on about worshipping Wotan as representing Neo-Paganism. Would you think it fair to most Neo-Pagans if a Christian were to say, regarding racist hate crimes, "My guess is Neo-Pagans needed an adversary, so they put Blacks and Jews there..."

There are hate filled fringe groups in every religion.

Louisvillian
November 23rd, 2017, 02:22 AM
Being a Celtic holiday when did christains take over it and claim its a day to celebrate their devil?
There are a couple levels of complexity at play here, and your assumptions are not quite accurate.
First things first, Halloween is not interchangeable with Samhain. They came about in different cultures, for different reasons, and only became intertwined in a few specific cultural areas at a fairly late date.
Samhain is a Celtic festival, specifically Gaelic. Though it has comparative traditions in Wales and Cornwall. Samhain is likely pre-Christian in origin and has significance in Gaelic mythology. It probably commemorated the transformation from Autumn into Winter and the last of the major harvests. It was placed, by custom, around what we define as early November; it probably varied a bit based on astronomical or climatological indicators.
Halloween came about in relation to All Saint's Day, as an evening of celebration the night before All Hallow's. The feast of All Saints originally was placed in early May, by the Pope, as a day of pilgrimage to commemorate the interment of certain Saints' relics in Rome. It wasn't changed to November 1st until almost two centuries later, out of public health concerns because Rome was struck with a really terrible fever epidemic in the summer. It had basically nothing to do with Samhain.

Now, yes, elements of Samhain were grafted onto Halloween. But it's not like them big, bad Christians came to Ireland to steal the folks' holidays and sewed a cross on 'em. These were cultural customs that were basically undisturbed in the Christianization process. Yes, certain mythological elements and the gods were altered significantly; the development of fairy folklore is probably, at least in part, an adjustment of polytheistic gods into lesser spirits that could be accepted by Christian folklore. But by and large, Samhain was not drastically altered. It remained a popular celebration up through the Early Modern Period. Instead, what happened is that because Samhain and Allhallow's were celebrated simultaneously, they exchanged concepts and practices. The same applies to Halloween, which eclipsed both as a popular night for revelry before the start of the solemnity. The overly strong focus on death and mortality in Halloween probably owes far more to All Saint's Day than it does to Samhain. Keep in mind, this was pretty much only in the British Isles, specifically the Gaelic countries. The imports from Samhain are likely the practice of divination, apple-bobbing games, the emphasis on Autumn and the Harvest, and fairy lore. The ubiquity of ghost stories are probably a point where Samhain's fairy folklore crosses paths with Allhallow's emphasis on the dead.

As far as the Devil being placed in relation to Halloween? That's almost certainly an invention of the Protestant Reformation, and its attempt to demonize Catholicism and its macabre sensibilities. It was more of a Protestant dig against Catholics, than it was any kind of a Christian insert against the Celts (who had, keep in mind, converted to Christianity long before the Saxons did).