Religion vs Faith

[Malkosha]

I need some help in defining the concept of religion vs. faith.

I use as an example, Christianity defined as a faith that is comprised of religions like Catholic, Protestant etc, including newer religions like Mormon and Jehovah’s Witnesses.

In a similar way, Paganism is a faith that contains the Wicca religion along with Witchcraft and Druidism.

What has brought this on is a discussion about the newness of Wicca. The discussion is based on the “tried and true” vs. the “new-fangled” debate, which really comes down to the “My Daddy is bigger than your Daddy” argument. My understanding of it is that Wicca is a religion that is based on the Pagan faith or belief. Therefore it doesn’t matter how old Wicca is because its foundation is based on Paganism, which may be the oldest faith of them all.

Since I’m still learning about many things, and it’s a challenge to sift through all the information looking for truth, do I have this one right?

Thank You!

[Stacy]

Well, IMO, religion is made by the people and has its own rules and guideliness and teachings..

Faith on the other hand is a personal belief structure, something you find as divination and sacred..

That's the way I distinguish between those two.. For example, I don't consider myself Wiccan or Pagan or member of any official religion, but I do value rules of Nature and find it as my personal divination. I do believe that everyone has the powers within themselves that resmeble the powers of God/esses.. And so on.. So my belief has many common things with Pagan religion, but I don't consider myself its follower..

And again, IMO, it doesn't metter how "young" a religion might be if you find it acceptable..

Hope this helped a bit..

:sunny:

[Storm]

I think you mean divinity.
As opposed to divination which is peering into the futuring, divining the truth of a situation, etc..tarot.crystal balls, ruins among many other things.

[Malkosha]

Hmm .. wonder if there is a relation between the words divinity and divination with the root being divine.

I believe I get what you’re saying about faith. I think I tend towards building structure with anything I do, which can be a double-edged sword. Structure seems to provide a stable base from which to base a belief but it can also trap a person into being close-minded and unwilling to see beyond the structure. In that case the structure becomes more important than the original belief.

Something I need to think about methinks ;)

[Mithrea]

You might try doing a search in the Theology and Philosophy Forum :) There are lots of threads that cover subjects that might help you sort it out :)

[Raevyn]

Originally posted by Malkosha
In a similar way, Paganism is a faith that contains the Wicca religion along with Witchcraft and Druidism.

Paganism is a group of religions and paths such as those you mentioned along with many others. Some of them draw on ancient religions, some of them don't.


Therefore it doesn’t matter how old Wicca is because its foundation is based on Paganism, which may be the oldest faith of them all.

Actually, it doesn't matter at all really, does it? Why worry about who's religion is oldest and why? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but why argue about it or try to find reasons for which is valid? All are valid. Some are older, some are newer. Wicca happens to be a religion that often draws on more modern beliefs and practices unlike reconstructionist religions for instance.

That said, religion involves God, and perhaps a system of beliefs. Religion usually requires faith in a deity. Faith, however, doesn't require God or a system of beliefs - you can have faith in a person, object, relationship, etc.

[Mad Moya]

Actually, if you want to get technical, I got all these from dictionary.com:

Pantheism -

A doctrine identifying the Deity with the universe and its phenomena.
Belief in and worship of all gods.

Polytheism -

The worship of or belief in more than one god.

Paganism -

One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.
A hedonist.
A Neo-Pagan.

Neo-pagan -

Any of various religious movements arising chiefly in the United Kingdom and the United States in the late 20th century that combine worship of pagan nature deities, particularly of the earth, with benign witchcraft.

Of all those definitions, I think many of the folks here are Pantheists (first definition) and/or Neo-pagans. The word pagan though, has a derogatory meaning to me, and I don't like using it. Of course in my case, I'm a recovering Catholic, which really means I'm an atheist, so none of the above apply! LOL

Have fun, MM

[Sgeir]

Don't forget:

Panentheism
" The universe is God's body, but God's awareness or personality is greater than the sum of all the parts of the universe."
(Source (http://websyte.com/alan/pan.htm))

[Malkosha]

Thanks!

I hit the search button and found quite of bit of info on pantheism, which of course led to other topics etc. I’m having a great time just doing the research! There is know doubt that I subscribe to the pantheist idea … I just didn’t know that there was a “word” that defines what I believe. Actually I'm finding that I don’t know many things and if nothing else my life has become quite interesting for the learning.

I don’t think your being rude at all Raevyn and in fact make a good point about validation to others. What I was really doing is seeking validation for myself and projecting it through my debates at home. Kind of strange in a way but that comes in the job description for being human. It’s amazing what you can learn about yourself at times when you least expect it ;)

[Sequoia]

:)

To me, Faith is something much more personal, something you have sought after, searched your soul for. It's that thing that you belive, deeply inside. It doesn't nessicarily have to have anything to do with a god or where the universe came from. Heck, to me, faith is a big mixture of those strongest feelings that give you guidence to your life. Faith is, to me, much more personal.

Religion seems to be a much more structured thing. Ceremonies, histories, rules, etc. Established clergy. Things like that.

I am more of a faith person, myself *smiles*

I use the term Pagan for myself more because of what people usually take it to mean, not it's actual definition. When I say "pagan", most people assume earth-worship/one's-own-path/wicca. Which isn't terribly accurate for me, but hey, for "they layman" it's close. And I will not describe myself as "new age" or "wiccan" or "alternative" . . . *chuckles*

This is a really fascinating subject! I think I'll send it on over to Theology and Philosophy for you. :)

[Blueowl]

I personally do not like being labeled at all...although the nature of the beast..we all fall into some kind of category. I believe in the soul and the rest just falls into place that is where my faith comes from, if you can't believe in yourself first how can you possibly believe in anything else in life and be objective about it?...it is amazing what you learn about yourself when you are seeking information on LIFE! what is even more amazing is how many people put themselves into a situation where they realy don't follow the pack but allow themselves to be labeled as sucha nd not stand up for what they really believe in. That is a wish I have for every human being...that one day we won't hesitate to not follow everyone else's lead, but create your own adn know someone isn't going to hold it against you somehow.

[Raevyn]

First, I must say I love Puma Hime's explanation.

Second, to add to it - you can have faith in someone or something, whereas I think religion is the culmination of faith with practices and beliefs, etc.

[mol]

Originally posted by Malkosha

I need some help in defining the concept of religion vs. faith.

I use as an example, Christianity defined as a faith that is comprised of religions like Catholic, Protestant etc, including newer religions like Mormon and Jehovah’s Witnesses.

In a similar way, Paganism is a faith that contains the Wicca religion along with Witchcraft and Druidism.


Faith is something personal, which has been noted by several other members already here. In fact, I feel your question has been answered quite well...so I will slant a little and give you a different view to think about.

I would call Chrisitianity a "faith-based" religion because you are believing without the evidence of something tangible to back it up. Now, in the same breath I have known Christians that walk their Path without Faith. These people seem to hold the same ideas that I do.

To me...to have..."faith", denotes a hint of doubt. (Note to the faithful here...I am not discounting you ;) Your Faith has as much validity as my Knowing.) Anyway, as I was saying. Some Christians I have known also hold to the 'I Know' principle.

The first step I made in my Path was to drop everything I had known...including Faith. Faith in God. Faith in a Goddess. Faith in a religion.

The next step I took was to look inside myself and Realize what I Know. What I had tangible evidence of inside of myself. Some say that is a misnomer. "Come on! You are describing Faith! The evidence you are speaking of can't be touched or seen!" Possibly they are same, I guess...like someone else said here in this thread, its just a label after all. What I am trying to say is what you believe and have Faith in...I Know to Be True.

:)

[Blueowl]

That is an excellent way of putting it Mol...I like how you think!!! Well said my friend!!!!:D :thumbsup: :thumbsup: