Blood Pact + Marriage: HELP please

[FAIRYBELL]

Hi everyone,

My name is Moonunicorn and Im posting this for my sister, in her own words, as shes ill at the moment, and can't post anything (she checked this forum out earlier) .
I do hope that those of you who are more experienced will help her out, as she needs serious advice.We call her Fairybell.



Fairybell: I'm new so please bear with me, I really need some advice, If its not too cheeky of me, I have three questions that I hope someone out here will be able to advise me on, so I hope you don't mind my asking for help despite being a newbie.

Background information:
My boyfriend is a pagan and occasionally dabbles in a spot of spell casting, (Im an atheist by the way, but I ve been learning about his path and joined him a few times), and he has proposed to me, I adore him totally, and I have said I will marry him. Im seriously thinking of following his path which I feel is right for me, now that Ive decided to stay with him.

After I agreed to marry him, we both said that we would never want to leave each other, and then a minute later he asked me to seal a pact with him, which I think is a sort of blood pact? - He wants to take some of my blood from my left index finger/forefinger, with a knife, so we can seal a pact.

I want to be with him in every way possible and I want him to be with me in every way too (I know I probably sound disgustingly soppy, but I can't help it ).


1.So can anyone tell me what the signifcance is of sharing blood, will it make us even more closer sharing our souls/ lifeforce/thoughts, being mentally closer ?or like binding our hearts ?

2.I know this might sound naive, but I have to ask, its a question that was hinted at but not answered by my fiance, or the books I ve read. (maybe its a taboo question ?...)

If I choose to do this for both of us,will either of us be able to control the other for better or worse? will either of us be able to know what the other is truly thinking ? (he and I are already on the this level, we somehow seem to know what the other is thinking)

2.Why does it have to be from the left forefinger ?
He absolutely insists that the blood is to be taken from that finger and nowhere else, but I can't see what difference it makes (you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but blood is the same to me no matter what finger its from), but he disagrees with me. He said a pact can only work this way, I think its like a pact he made when he became a pagan.



I would really appreciate your thoughts, I don't have much time to decide whether to do it or not.I've done some reading on it, (different sites and books say different things, but am quite confused about the whole thing, (being new to paganism and the different paths and beliefs).


Thank you in advance to everyone.Im sorry its a long post, and so many questions but this is a serious decision, and I owe it to him and myself to be honest about this, and understand the implications so we will both be happy.

fairybell

[Sequoia]

Well, I don't understand the significance of the left finger either, but hon, in my experience, almost any blood magick or workings with blood are very bad. . . It can establish a bond, yes that's true, but there are other ways to do that, and from what I have experienced these bonds aren't always the kind you want.

People have used blood for things for a long time, I mean, even that idea of "blood brothers". In a way, I suppose using blood to make some sort of marriage pact would be your own personal choice, but for me. . . that wouldn't be right. To me it would be like binding yourself to that person for all time, for good and bad, no matter if you wanted to leave or not.

Also, I have never heard of anything using blood for a marriage-type thing. It really makes me uneasy to hear of that. Something sounds fishey to me.

[FAIRYBELL]

hi Puma Hime

Hmmm.......you said somethings fishy...is my sis in trouble?


they are gonna get married properly, legally, but he also wants her to seal this blood pact with him,

I know they are deeply in love, but you've got a point..(is is evil magic? i know there is good-light, grey and black magic)

I'll wait till my sis gets better so she can reply

Thanks
Moonunicorn

[Sequoia]

something you've got to remember, is that for about 90% of magick, there isn't really "good and evil", nor is black bad or white good nessicarily. It's all about intentions and uses.

A lot of the time, however, I've noticed that blood-magick can have many negative energies attached. I'm sorry that I can't really tell you why right now- I'm not sure myself. But they simply have always given me a horrible feeling, and every time I've seen blood magick used, there were "catches" and problems inherent.

Also, something that bothers me a bit. I may be picking up on this wrong, but you said he's more of a dabbler in spells and such? First off. . . when you're dealing with something as significant as blood, and the energies of life and such. . . you really need to be careful. You need to know what you're doing, exactly, because it is extremely easy to screw it up. Also. . . my question, why does he want to do a blood pact? What is his exact reason for it? Because he wants their bond to be stronger? He wants it to last forever? He wants her tied to him, no matter what? Love is one thing, love is a wonderful one thing, but everybody needs a little space, and should they fall out of love, or should things just change (and not all change is bad, change can be very good), such a bond could really be a bad thing. It could trap them together, keep them from growing with eachother. It's a very inflexible sort of bond, and for the most part, those I've seen have nasty connotations. When you're in love, deep love, bonds will form naturally. These are good things. Making up a blood pact. . . this just sounds wrong to me. Almost like asking someone to sign away their soul. "well, I love you honey, but I want you to swear on your eternal soul that we'll always be together, and oh, let me have a little piece of it to be sure."

There was a time I was very deeply in love with someone, and he asked for similar sorts of things. . . I am still recovering from it. By all means, I really wish her the very happiest. But in the far end of things, if someday they did end up parting paths, such a bond could be horrible. It's really up to her, and him, and maybe they have reasons I don't know about. But in general, I would say, that really doesn't sound like a good thing to me. If he loves her, he should understand. If she feels odd about it, enough to ask about it, my advice to her would be to say no. That it isn't worth it. If he loves her, he should understand, or at least be willing to say "allright."

Instead of a blood pact, perhaps they could write a very meaningful and affirming spell or such together - one that doesn't involve binding eachother, but rather, affirming the love and ties they already have.

[Rick]

Don't know about the left forefinger, but there's an old myth that a vein runs from the left ring finger directly to the heart, so that may be the significance there...

I, as well, don't know of any ritual use of combining blood for a marriage or handfasting. I only know of using this rite for the 'binding of brothers' (or sisters, I reckon... please, no 'sexist' hate mail :) ), or when oathing to join a group, or maybe dedicating one's self to a deity... & it's permanent, life long, no turning back. And while I think I understand the fiance's intentions here to oath to his mate 'forever', & maybe he means it to represent some sort of sacrifice... well, Puma's right about unforseen consequences. I'd not enter into this lightly (actually... personally, I'd not enter into it at all, but maybe that's just me)...

Good luck, & please keep us posted

[Etain]

I would have to agree with almost everyone else here. The idea of a blood pact to "proove" one's love sounds like a bit much to me. Of all the pagans I know who have married, I know none who have made a blood pact to bind themselves to eachother. Love is something that should be felt and understood by both parties. If their love is true they should know that, and it should be enough to bind them. Congratulations on the engagement though. BB
Etain

[Sequoia]

You know, I think I'm going to send this on over to Magick and Rituals for you. You may be able to find more info there.

[Morrighana]

I have to agree with everyone else here. While I don't think either of you would be able to control the other...but the whole story just doesn't sit well with me.

I think the one thing that really bothers me is that you mentioned thinking he had taken a similar blood oath when he became a Pagan. Now, there are NO Pagan traditions I am familiar with that require this sort of initiatory pact, so I'm assuming that he joined a group of some sort...and any group that requires a blood pact like that would not see me applying for membership. Consider this: He is blood bonded with someone else in the same way that he wants you to be bonded to him. He wants you to be bonded to him for life, but he's already bonded to someone else for life. If you share your blood with him, and he with you, you will be taking part of that previous pact in to yourself, even though you do not know the person(s) with whom it was taken. THAT scares me. No matter how much you love and trust him, I am almost certain that you do not love and trust this mystery person. That would be my biggest argument for not going through with it.

Good luck, and congrats on the engagement!

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Like eveyone elese - this is not something I would consider doing. And my advise to you is to think long and hard before going through with this - no matter how much you "adore" him.

[materra]

No, Blood Rites are not a tradition for marrage. It was a tradition for oaths until Aids came along. But my concern is how long has your sister known this guy? Has he met all the family etc. I have concerns that this is about control of your sister. Not that I believe the pact/ritual would or could control her....just that this has the feel of a controlling person. I would encourage him meeting everyone in the family, having a longer engagement, and especially meeting all of his family. Very telling is how they treat each other, and how his father treats his mother. Only after some observation would I consider the marrage. And without any blood rites if only for health reasons. Infection and such.

[finnbheara3]

I know I am very naive...its something I deal with every day....but somehow I see the overall intentions of this particular man's desire for a blood pact as more of a "romantic gesture" than a sinister plot. I base that on his being a dabbler, rather than an adept, and I say that giving him, a complete stranger to me, the benefit of the doubt. HOWEVER, such a powerful and personal pact as this can only lead to trouble as I see it, and would advise strongly against it!!

Blessings!
Finn

[Phoenix Blue]

Two words: Bad News.

Three more: Run away. Quickly.

If it isn't a sinister motive, the guy's a plain-and-simple fruitcake. And no matter how good his intentions may be, a fruitcake is still. . . well, fruity.

[Ahautenites]

I agree with what everyone else said. That way leads to the potential for manipulation (spiritual, magickal and otherwise) as well as being something akin to spiritual incest. I mean, blood to blood is supposed to make us closer, like blood relations (sisters, brothers.... family, in other words). To ask to bind yourself to your lover/love like that is just a little skeevy.

[Ball-Bhreac Ròn]

hmm...I'm not so sure that he's intentionally trying to manipulate your sister, as other people have said, but that maybe he's ignorant to the power that a blood pact could hold.It may have just seemed like the right thing to do, and he may have had good intentions - I'm in no way saying it was the right thing, but he might have thought that it would bring them closer together. You, or your sister, or somebody needs to explain the implications and troubles associated with blood pacts.
That's just my 2c. I may be wrong, but this is what I think could have happened. :)

[mecca]

i just wanted to say that upon reading this thread i have changed my mind about blood pacts.

When you're in love, deep love, bonds will form naturally.

"well, I love you honey, but I want you to swear on your eternal soul that we'll always be together, and oh, let me have a little piece of it to be sure."


these two quotes by puma hime got me thinking... you dont need to solidify your bond w/ someone this way. if you are truly in love the bonds will be so strong anyway.

its kinda like when you are good friends with someone and you can spend x amount of time together barely saying anything but knowing that you are both perfectly comfortable. you just dont need to solidify your comfort w/ words.

hope that made sense!

[Rick]

Mecca, methinks you are wise beyond your years (I peeked at your profile ;) )! :D And you bring up a great point... of the extremely small number of people that I would even consider making a blood oath with, I realize that it's absolutely unnecessary to do so... you're right, that level of bond is either there, or it's not... a blood oath isn't going to make something be there that isn't already...

[Danustouch]

I think that in moonunicorns case, the blood bond thing is a very bad idea. I just sense that there is an obsessive neediness behind his motive for this bloodbond thing.

I also think that in this day and age, bloodbonds in general are a bad idea. So many diseases... blech.

However, when I was a child, I watched one too many grizzly adams movies, and in one episode, he became "Blood Brothers" with Nacoma. After watching this, I decided it would be "neat" to become blood sisters with my best friend at the time. We did it. And when her mother found out, man was she livid. But..at that time, NOBODY knew about AIDS yet. She was livid, because she thought that athsma could be transferred through blood :rolleyes: However, the "Blood Sister" bond has lasted our whole lives. Although we've both moved far from our roots, and although we live halfway across the country from eachother..a bond remains. She knows she can call me in the dead of night, and I would be there..and vice versa. I don't think the blood created the bond. I think that the blood bond was a visible symbol of what we already felt. It wasn't a magickal oath sealer..as much as it was a ritual proclaiming our bond to eachother, in a physical way..if that makes sense. Why do Jews perform Circumcisions? Or Christians Baptisms. Or Gardenarians, Initiations with a Scourge? A physical symbol, of a spiritual choice. It is a ritual symbol, like any other ritual symbol. The magick isn't in the symbol itsself, its in the heart of those using it.

Obviosly, in this day and age, I don't advocate bloodbonds. And frankly, I can't imagine sharing a bloodbond with anyone in my life now. Because honestly, at this point in my life, I don't feel that any of my friendships or relationships warrant it. I've come to the point in my life, where I admit that it is extremely rare to find an "everlasting" bond with ANYONE. And that often times, even when we are DEEPLY in love, things can change. People can drift apart..so the blood bond then, would be no more solid than any oath, vow, or contract.

When I did the bloodbond with my childhood friend, it was a moment in time, not something planned, or forced, or coerced. It was a moment of innocense, and fantasy, eternal optimism, and naievetee that was unique to "childhood"...to those bonds we form when we are children. I don't HAVE that absolute optimism anymore...so I would never do a bloodbond again. I don't regret doing it. It's something she and I laugh at when we talk. It's a special memory that we share..but we both realize that it wasn't the blood that made our bond. It was our hearts.

Again, i'd like to repeat. I don't advocate them in this day and age, AT ALL. However, I also don't regret the fact that I did so, as a child.

[Carickah]

Well, I, like Danustouch, have had a "blood brother" bond, although we did not tie ourselves together for any real length of time, "like they do in the movies", it was also in my youth and quite possibly right after I saw that same episode of Grizzly Adams. I think that the advise given ahead of me is sound advise and would definately say there is much caution to be taken here.

My advise is for Fairybell and her fiance to talk over just why he thinks such a rite is necessary and that she openly discuss her concerns with him over this. She should be strong in this and firm in her resolve. If all he is looking for is some kind of outward commitment, perhaps there is a better alternative out there.

While I have not done so myself, I have witnessed a rite where two lovers pricked their fingers and bled on two seperate clothes which were then burned in the same cauldron with appropriate passages being recited by each as the two clothes were consumed. After all was ash, the poured the ash onto a single plate and together blew the ashes into the lake. (careful not to face into the wind here, though...) Perhaps they could create their own similarly fulfilling rite(the act of creating the rite together, regardless of any actual blood drawn or not can also be a demonstration of their commitment).

But above all, Fairybell, please, look to the intent. Not just what he says with his words, but with his actions and his heart. Be safe and may you find your happiness with whatever you decide.

Carickah

[Amethyst Rose]

Many people said that they know of no such blood ritual for handfastings and no pagans that have done it, etc., etc., I, however have a different story.
A guy I knew in B.C. was a 3rd degree Alexandrian (I believe) and he presided over a handfasting in which blood letting was customary. From hearing him speak about it, he's done it before and didn't think it was very odd that it was done.
HOWEVER....I don't advocate it :) The reason I know about it was because he was telling a story on how the blood letting went wrong and both the bride and groom ended up in the ER.
As to manipulation and what not...I got the feeling that there weren't any sinister intents....more like motive due to ignorance.

[msilvercat]

[i]I'm not so sure that he's intentionally trying to manipulate your sister, as other people have said, but that maybe he's ignorant to the power that a blood pact could hold.[/B]

I have to agree with this. Based upon your original post, this is a guy who "dabbles" when it occurs to him, but is not really clear about what energies he might be raising or what effects they may have in the world. The intention might be innocent, but the results could be much more serious.

The only blood magic that I have ever heard of (at least among those I trust) has been about Coven initiation. And in that case the blood oath that is taken is very carefully worded to avoid any possibility of surrendering free-will.

Be careful with anything as powerful as blood, the ultimate life force. I would only trust that kind of magic to a priest or priestess whose training I really knew and trusted.

Silvercat

[dragonsword]

Just picked up on this one. This is bad news and DON'T DO IT . It has all the hallmarks of High Ceremonial stuff that this guy has read and maybe mis-interpreted. Whatever.....if he is genuine ask him to explain EXACTLY what the significance of this blood/ritual is all about that in HIS opinion

[mol]

Originally posted by dragonsword

Whatever.....if he is genuine ask him to explain EXACTLY what the significance of this blood/ritual is all about that in HIS opinion

This is very good advice. But dont just take his opinion on the subject. Make him explain what the ritual is for, maybe even a copy of the ritual on paper for you to read would be nice. The, go forth and verify it.

Your friend needs some more info. While the act of a Blood Bond for a marriage is feasible (as this should be a life long+ union anyway) there are some sinister things that could be done without your friend even knowing whats going on.

Get the FULL scoop.

[WendingWanderer]

I have heard of blood during marriage for a few Native American tribes, though I don't know if it's really true or just something they put in a book.

Regardless, if the guy is a "dabbler", he could be opening them for something neither of them is prepared to deal with.

If the guy is experienced, it sounds as if he is a "controller", the kind you find on every street who wants to have control over his woman - to be in charge of the relationship, rather than to be an equal.

Either way, I'd stay away from bloodletting, and I'd have a few second thoughts about the man.