Cleansing suggestions when incense/sage and candles Can't be used?

[Kaylee]

Hi everyone, it's been awhile since I posted but I had a question regarding cleansing.

A few weeks ago two of my friends, Michaela and Mel, and I tried to help another friend, Tex, with her fish. Tex has extremely bad luck with fish and has had whole tanks of fish die within days. I don't know much about how she cares for her fish but we did our best to give her suggestions and let her borrow the meds we had on hand.

A few days later some of my fish started acting strangely. Since then, two of those fish have died from this illness (I was never able to figure out what it was), one has recovered, and the fourth died from an unrelated accident. All of this happened in about a week. I now have a fifth fish who has what is usually a fatal disease, although I am attempting to cure it.

Mel has lost a guppy and one of her other fish started acting strangely last night (attacking the others in the tank) and is now quarantined. And Michaela has lost 8 or 10 fish to unknown diseases (danios and guppies, so small and kept in schools), has a fish that is bullying the others much more than usual, and has another sick fish that is not responding to treatments.

Before three weeks ago, we hadn't had any trouble with any of our fish. We are experienced fish care-takers and haven't changed any of our methods at all. Cleaning, diets, filters, etc. have stayed the same. Michaela has suggested that Tex, who originally had the sick fish, might have some sort of bad mojo and we should consider a cleansing to see if we somehow attracted her bad luck/mojo.

I figure a cleansing can't hurt, the only problem is what and/or how. I live in the dorms so I can't burn any candles or sage like I would to do a cleansing at home. And they live in an apartment where candles aren't allowed but they will be checking to see if incense would be allowed so they could possibly use sage. I do have sea salt on hand that could be used, but none of my ritual supplies like a broom that might be helpful since there's not a lot of magic I can do with the dorm rules.

So, any ideas on what we could use to cleanse and how to go about doing so? Also, should we cleanse ourselves or the dorm and apartment? I was staying at the apartment when the problems started but I've since moved back to dorms and the problems are persisting. Even getting worse.

Does it sound like Michaela's idea could be right? Tex has since gotten two new fish and it sounds like they are doing okay, whereas, about the same time ours started dying. Michaela and I, the two who have lost the most fish, had the most contact with her and helped her with the fish that ended up dying. Mel just happened to be there.

It's also slightly difficult when it comes to rituals and whatnot because, while Mel and I are pagan, Michaela is Christian. She's open to a cleansing, since it was her idea that it might be bad mojo, but I don't know how much she would actually be comfortable doing.

Thanks for any ideas/input!

[HetHert]

A few ideas:

You could use salt and water and sprig of rosemary. Mix a little salt in some spring or water from a fresh source (charged if you want to go a step further). Take the sprig of rosemary and walk around the room shaking the water from the rosemary sprig.

You could simply meditate and chant the room clean.

You can shake noise makers and dance the room clean.

You could use a besom to clear away the negativity.

You could use hematite and/or quartz in the quadrants of the room to cleanse it.

You can mix all these or do one or a combo.


I prefer to follow up a cleansing with a blessing to encourage the energies I desire to fill the void rather than anything else so you might consider that as well.

Good Luck

[lightdragon]

also you could use sea salt from an aquarium store. if it says for marine use don't use use it. otherwise chant some protection ritual and sprinkle the salt in the aquarium. it's also healthy for the fish.

you could add quartz in the tank as well. usually tumbled pieces.also red jasper.

create a protection symbol and place it underneath the tank.

[wyrd_dottir]

I'm rather allergy sensitive so I have a difficult time with using items like incense, sage or candles.

What I've found to be very effective are:

1) take water, ask whoever you believe in to bless it, then use it to draw what you consider to be protective and cleansing symbols/sigils of your faith. (Some might opt to use pentacles here, bindrunes here, although I personally find bindrunes are usually most effective for protective not cleansing uses, etc.)

2) you can also smudge with sound, rattles can work great for this. if you don't have a rattle, sticking some loose chain in an empty coffee can, or soup can and rattling it around the perimeter of the area and throughout it can also be greatly effective.

3) You can call upon your ancestors and ask for their assistance, this will only work if you have an ongoing relationship with them.

4) A Hammer Hallowing (or for the non-Asatru something like the lesser banishing pentacle ) (http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Lesser-Banishing-Ritual-of-the-Pentagram)

[Godgifu]

This thread is on a similar topic:
http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=234955

Basically, other suggestions include floor washes, sweepings, sprays or sprinklings.

[Kaylee]

Thanks for all of the ideas/suggestions and the link. I'm going to show the girls the different suggestions and see what they want to try. I'm thinking, just to cover all our bases we should cleanse ourselves, my dorm and their apartment and protect the fish.

I especially like the suggestions for the fish tank (I do have aquarium salt on hand, already). It makes a lot of sense to protect them specifically since they're the ones being hurt, I don't know why we didn't think of it. I have drawn a healing rune on the sickest fish's tank and it seems to be helping a little but every time she starts to get better she gets worse again, hopefully some of these things will help.

[Devo]

I'm gonna probably be chastised for this but here goes-

What is going on with the fish? What are they symptoms, etc. Is it possible that a potential 'mundane' explanation could have been overlooked. When it comes to fixing issues like this, I try to hit all bases at once- that way, the metaphysical and the mundane are covered. Since most everyone else has given good ideas for metaphysical aspects, I'm curious about the more mundane aspects.

-Devo

[lightdragon]

I'm gonna probably be chastised for this but here goes-

What is going on with the fish? What are they symptoms, etc. Is it possible that a potential 'mundane' explanation could have been overlooked. When it comes to fixing issues like this, I try to hit all bases at once- that way, the metaphysical and the mundane are covered. Since most everyone else has given good ideas for metaphysical aspects, I'm curious about the more mundane aspects.

-Devo

this explains they tried to do all the mundane things.


Before three weeks ago, we hadn't had any trouble with any of our fish. We are experienced fish care-takers and haven't changed any of our methods at all. Cleaning, diets, filters, etc. have stayed the same

however they didn't go into details. like did they check for amonia, ph levels, put in parasite removals, copper removals,etc.

[Devo]

this explains they tried to do all the mundane things.

however they didn't go into details. like did they check for amonia, ph levels, put in parasite removals, copper removals,etc.

I saw the reference to mundane (as in, I didn't change anything, and have been doing this for a while)- but it wasn't in depth enough for me. Things can change within an aquarium- at random from time to time, hence why I was asking for more clarification.

-Devo

[Kaylee]

I'm fairly certain we've covered the mundane problems. I've tested the water parameters (except for ammonia) in all of my tanks, many times since the started, and the levels are all where they should be. I've run out of my ammonia testing kit and don't have a car to get to the nearest pet store (45 minutes away) for a few more weeks. But I'm always open to suggestions. I have aquarium salt, Quick Cure, and "Parasite Clear" tablets on hand.


I haven't had close contact with my friends' fish in the past few weeks so I don't know what their symptoms have been leading up to the deaths...

My goldfish's only symptoms (the first ones to get ill) were clamped fins and decreased activity, as it progressed the first one infected started refusing to eat. As soon as I noticed they were acting odd I started daily partial water changes instead of the weekly I had been doing. I added aquarium salt once which seemed to help for a day or so but then she started acting sick again so I bought a parasite treatment (they had white feces instead of the normal brownish or green depending on whether they had eaten peas or pellets or flakes last, leading me to suspect parasites). I didn't add any more salt to the tank when I did water changes because there was also an Otoclinus in the tank and he shouldn't have salt anyway. Unfortunately the one that became ill first didn't make it, but the other two goldfish who began acting ill later started to get better. I did a second treatment with the parasite tablets 48 hours later as directed on the packaging since they weren't completely better and soon after both of them began acting normally again. The Oto died after showing what I believe were swim bladder symptoms. He was 'cleaning' near the top of the water line but instead of having his body hanging below him it would float to the side. These symptoms only lasted two days though before he died which is much quicker than swim bladder usually takes to kill and didn't allow the pea treatment enough time to have an effect. The second goldfish died after coming out of the cave he was in while I was cleaning the gravel of the tank, I didn't see him come over because of the angle I was at in relation to the decorations and he got sucked into the tube. He ended up with a cut on his side and a punctured swim bladder. He died four hours later. The third goldfish is acting normally now and is back to full health.

I had a Betta die two days before the first goldfish. She had been acting perfectly normal but I had only gotten her a week before. She wasn't showing any symptoms and then I got home from classes to find her dead. I checked over her body and couldn't find any physical causes either. All of these deaths occurred over the course of about one week. The Betta died on a Friday, the first goldfish died two days later on Sunday, the Oto died last Wednesday, and the second goldfish just died Saturday.

Currently I have a Betta that I have had for three weeks who is ill. She was originally introduced to a female sorority tank but was fighting too much with the other girls so I put her in a .5 gallon fish bowl temporarily, doing 100% water changes every few days and she seemed fine, was perfectly healthy for the few weeks she was in it. On Sunday I was able to get to a store to buy a 2.5 gallon tank with filter and heater so I cleaned it (just hot water, no soap) and set it up. I used the bag method to adjust her to the difference in temperature. The next morning I noticed her eyes were cloudy and she was clamping her fins a lot. She was also hiding behind the filter so I shut it off in case the flow was disturbing her. I left her alone for the day (she is still eating fine) in case she was just stressed but yesterday I noticed she looks as though she has dropsy. I did a full change of the tank, rinsing it out again really well with as hot of water as I could stand and added Quick Cure before putting her back in. She relaxed slightly after that and her eyes started clearing a little, she was also more active for a few hours than she has been in the new tank. But again today, she is staying in one place, her eyes haven't gotten and better, she has relaxed anymore, and she is still pine-coned. I added more quick cure but it doesn't seem to be doing much. From what I know of dropsy, there's not a whole lot that can be done, it's nearly always fatal, so I'm trying to treat it as if it is some other illness that I have a chance of curing. The only parasite tablets I have are 1 tablet per 10 gallons of tank so I can't use them in the 2.5 gallon, thus I have to use the Quick Cure and hope that if it is a parasite, the malachite green can eliminate it.

I am continuing to treat symptoms as they crop up in the fish and attempting to fix underlying causes once I figure out what they are. I would like to use a combination of the metaphysical and mundane because it just seems odd that all of our fish would start getting sick and/or hurt with different things at the same time after months of none of us having any of them getting ill for more than a day or two. It's always been apparent what was wrong, whether it was simply an extra water change that was needed or a few days of peas to deal with bloat or swim bladder issues. The Cichlid had some worms in his tank when I visited a month or so ago but we had that cleared up within days. It's just very odd that it's all happening at once in so many different tanks.

[HetHert]

I'm fairly certain we've covered the mundane problems. I've tested the water parameters (except for ammonia) in all of my tanks, many times since the started, and the levels are all where they should be. I've run out of my ammonia testing kit and don't have a car to get to the nearest pet store (45 minutes away) for a few more weeks. But I'm always open to suggestions. I have aquarium salt, Quick Cure, and "Parasite Clear" tablets on hand.


I haven't had close contact with my friends' fish in the past few weeks so I don't know what their symptoms have been leading up to the deaths...

My goldfish's only symptoms (the first ones to get ill) were clamped fins and decreased activity, as it progressed the first one infected started refusing to eat. As soon as I noticed they were acting odd I started daily partial water changes instead of the weekly I had been doing. I added aquarium salt once which seemed to help for a day or so but then she started acting sick again so I bought a parasite treatment (they had white feces instead of the normal brownish or green depending on whether they had eaten peas or pellets or flakes last, leading me to suspect parasites). I didn't add any more salt to the tank when I did water changes because there was also an Otoclinus in the tank and he shouldn't have salt anyway. Unfortunately the one that became ill first didn't make it, but the other two goldfish who began acting ill later started to get better. I did a second treatment with the parasite tablets 48 hours later as directed on the packaging since they weren't completely better and soon after both of them began acting normally again. The Oto died after showing what I believe were swim bladder symptoms. He was 'cleaning' near the top of the water line but instead of having his body hanging below him it would float to the side. These symptoms only lasted two days though before he died which is much quicker than swim bladder usually takes to kill and didn't allow the pea treatment enough time to have an effect. The second goldfish died after coming out of the cave he was in while I was cleaning the gravel of the tank, I didn't see him come over because of the angle I was at in relation to the decorations and he got sucked into the tube. He ended up with a cut on his side and a punctured swim bladder. He died four hours later. The third goldfish is acting normally now and is back to full health.

I had a Betta die two days before the first goldfish. She had been acting perfectly normal but I had only gotten her a week before. She wasn't showing any symptoms and then I got home from classes to find her dead. I checked over her body and couldn't find any physical causes either. All of these deaths occurred over the course of about one week. The Betta died on a Friday, the first goldfish died two days later on Sunday, the Oto died last Wednesday, and the second goldfish just died Saturday.

Currently I have a Betta that I have had for three weeks who is ill. She was originally introduced to a female sorority tank but was fighting too much with the other girls so I put her in a .5 gallon fish bowl temporarily, doing 100% water changes every few days and she seemed fine, was perfectly healthy for the few weeks she was in it. On Sunday I was able to get to a store to buy a 2.5 gallon tank with filter and heater so I cleaned it (just hot water, no soap) and set it up. I used the bag method to adjust her to the difference in temperature. The next morning I noticed her eyes were cloudy and she was clamping her fins a lot. She was also hiding behind the filter so I shut it off in case the flow was disturbing her. I left her alone for the day (she is still eating fine) in case she was just stressed but yesterday I noticed she looks as though she has dropsy. I did a full change of the tank, rinsing it out again really well with as hot of water as I could stand and added Quick Cure before putting her back in. She relaxed slightly after that and her eyes started clearing a little, she was also more active for a few hours than she has been in the new tank. But again today, she is staying in one place, her eyes haven't gotten and better, she has relaxed anymore, and she is still pine-coned. I added more quick cure but it doesn't seem to be doing much. From what I know of dropsy, there's not a whole lot that can be done, it's nearly always fatal, so I'm trying to treat it as if it is some other illness that I have a chance of curing. The only parasite tablets I have are 1 tablet per 10 gallons of tank so I can't use them in the 2.5 gallon, thus I have to use the Quick Cure and hope that if it is a parasite, the malachite green can eliminate it.

I am continuing to treat symptoms as they crop up in the fish and attempting to fix underlying causes once I figure out what they are. I would like to use a combination of the metaphysical and mundane because it just seems odd that all of our fish would start getting sick and/or hurt with different things at the same time after months of none of us having any of them getting ill for more than a day or two. It's always been apparent what was wrong, whether it was simply an extra water change that was needed or a few days of peas to deal with bloat or swim bladder issues. The Cichlid had some worms in his tank when I visited a month or so ago but we had that cleared up within days. It's just very odd that it's all happening at once in so many different tanks.

Are these fish from the same store?

[Kaylee]

Not all of them. The Goldfish were from the same store but they were bought over the summer. The Bettas were bought from a different store three weeks ago. I got six of them, the one died a week later, and a second is sick now. The Oto was from the same store as the Bettas but I got him about two months ago.

Out of the fish my friends have, the Guppies that died were bought from the same store as my Bettas, on the same day, but the Bettas had just gotten to the store the day before. The Danios that died were bred by a student here at school so I'm not sure where the parents originally came from but my friend has had them for about a year. I can't remember, offhand which other fish have died (of my friends') but the Guppies and Bettas are the only new fish, and were bought at the same time, from the same store.

[HetHert]

Well there goes that theory. ;)

Best of luck to you, your friends and the fish!

[Kaylee]

Thanks. I appreciate any and all suggestions or theories. I'm willing to try anything at this point. :)

[Mab]

You can make a room mist by simmering some herbs in water & adding a bit of alcohol (rubbing alcohol or vodka works well as a preservative to keep the infusion from becoming scummy) & spritzing the room. I use sage, cedar, rosemary, sweet grass & cinnamon - depending on what I'm moved to use at the time.

[Devo]

There is one common denominator with all of your fish- your water. Depending on what is wrong with your fish, changing water can help, and hurt. Esp. if you're not putting in the chemicals to keep it safe. If you changed all of your water in your tank, you will have all of the bacteria eradicated, which means you'd have to let your tank re-situate itself each time you do that. I had a problem where my pH suddenly plummeted (I'm guessing there were changes in our well water), and I had to change all of the water- I spent two months trying to get the aquarium to become established, while changing water to reduce ammonia. It was a disaster. Luckily, my fish are hardy, and they made it through.

So water is the first issue I'd look at. There are tablets and powders you can use to treat Clamp Fin and Dropsy. If I'm not mistaken, both Clamp Fin and Dropsy are bacteria- so treating for parasites won't cure it. You can combat this is powders, and there are anti-bacteria (and anti-parasitic) fish foods that you should use to combat the problem inside and out. I understand that the nearest store is a ways away, but it would be best if you could get to one (or get someone you know to get the stuff for you), or even order it online. Even a WalMart would carry some anti-bacterial stuff. Anything you can get in the water to start treating is definitely worth it.

Just my .02.

-Devo

[Kaylee]

The only tank I've changed the water completely in is the 2.5 gallon since I have the filter shut off and the tank isn't cycled. I treat the water with AquaSafe (town water), but I guess it could have a bacteria in it that's causing the problems... I'll take a look and see what I can find for anti-bacterial meds I may have to go the online route and hope nobody gets worse before it gets here, if I can't get a ride somewhere this weekend.

[Kaylee]

Just an update, I was able to get some anti-bacteria meds and the girl with dropsy hasn't gotten any worse, she may even be improving. And I added anti-bacteria tablets to all of the tanks, not just the sick one, in case it is something in the water. I have Maracyn and Maracyn-2 powder for the one with dropsy and cloudy eye. All of the tanks have healing and protection runes on them and none of them have gotten sick again.

Unfortunately one of the girls in my community tank died yesterday, it looks like the other girls killed her. She was acting normally when I fed them the night before, and nobody has had any new nips taken out of their tails at all in the last week so it seemed like they had sorted out the pecking order of the tank... Apparently not.

[Devo]

Even though they're not all back at 100%, I'm glad to hear that some of your fish seem to be doing better. Please keep us updated :)

-Devo

[Kaylee]

So, most of the fish are back to 100%. The Maracyn combo worked to get rid of the dropsy in the sick fish but only two days after coming off of the meds she began clamping her fins again so I'm doing another round of it. If this doesn't work I'm not sure what I'll do because she's the only fish still sick and I'm not really sure what's wrong with her now. Her only symptom is clamped fins and lethargy. But she still eats just fine and can spread her fins to swim if she wants to. Her tank is generally untouched so she's not startled often or anything that might stress her out. (One of my tanks is on my dresser and the closing of the drawers bothers him some days, I would understand something like this from him)

One of Michaela's fish died of dropsy this past weekend after only being sick for two days, not even long enough for the meds to kick in so it may very well be something in the water. I find it really weird that most of the fish are perfectly fine now, but maybe their bodies have stronger immune systems.

[Devo]

It's really hard to say. Fish can be fickle, and it's hard to pinpoint what exactly could be causing the issue. I've recently had problems with stressed fish, and I found that using bottled water instead of tap water helped to reduce some of the stress. So you might possibly need to do a partial water change, and just used bottled water instead.

Another idea would be to put some water safe in with your fish, to help rebuild their slime coat. That, or an 'anti-stress' liquid. Just some ideas.

Glad to see that most of your fish are doing better though :3

-Devo

[Kaylee]

I actually was just thinking today that I might try some bottled water instead since I'm doing a partial change tomorrow. And I added a bit of water-safe on your suggestion. It's worth a shot. Hopefully Persephone will get better soon. :-)

The Maracyn isn't making any difference this time so I'm going to stop that treatment, no point in using chemicals on her if they aren't helping.

I was planning on putting her in the divided ten gallon I'm getting next week since the filter in the 2.5 she's in tends to bother her (it's a little stronger than what she was used to in the community tank, but her behavior doesn't change when I leave it off so I don't think that's the stress problem, although it can't help so it stays off most of the time). I would put her on the side with the heater and one of the other fish on the side with the filter but if she does have some sort of bacterial infection or parasite causing these problems I don't want to expose my other fish. :-/