I Need Help!!!

[Elaine]

Another discussion with my husband....he's telling me that what I'm believing in is too contradictory and that, basically, I'm wrong...he's trying to understand...but I'm having a hard time explaining....!!!! PLEASE HELP!!!

ps....if you get someone on here being rude that's him...sorry if he does find this website...I'm trying to keep him from finding out what it is......but he really is trying to understand...but I'm having a hard time explaining how it IS possible to believe both!! HELP and thanks

[Laiste]

Merry Meet Elaine,

Sorry your having difficulty with your husband. The problem is he probably will never truly understand if he does not believe as you do. Maybe you can come to an agreement and settle for acceptance without true understanding. We all have the right to our own beliefs and whatever they are they should at least be accepted if not totally understood. My husband and my family have come to accept the fact that I am Wiccan (I was raised Episcopalian)but they certainly do not truly understand. I hope this works out ok for you.

Blessed Be,
Laiste

[Emerald Sky]

<<<<<<<<<<<Elaine>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <-- That's a hug for you. I'm sorry you're having a tough time with your husband. :rolleyes: I hope things get better for you two.

[Fawn]

That's sad--its your life and choice right?
Is it going to take anything away from him?
Set him down have him discuss what he is truly frightened of with your belief system--is it fear of cleebrating holidays with him? Is it fear of being shunned if other people find out? Fear of how his parents/family will react?
These are all very basic and valid fears you are entitled to your beliefs and he is entitled to his fears or lack of understanding---can't you both just be mature and agree to disagree and leave it at that?
Yes I am married but I don't kowtow to my husband with my beliefs--he either accepted them or not--I made that "HIS" problem not mine--he accepted and supports mine and I respect his--he's "looking"
We discuss both of our beliefs-I could not imagine not doing so--he is after all and first of all my best friend.
And just because I see the world as "grey" does not mean I expect him to also nor does he expect me to view it as "yellow".

[Elaine]

reading that over, I wasn't very clear in what I was trying to say! he is more than willing to let me believe what I want to...he just wants to try to understand where I'm coming from...he is having the problem that many pagans even have a problem with...I am trying to incorporate Christianity and Wicca and he doesn't think it's possible...I have been on pagan websites where the author says that it's not possible and even one said that you would never try to consider yourself as I do if you want anyone to take you seriously! You must remember that I am still fairly new to all of this and when I try to explain my point of view I have a hard time doing it for some reason! (it proves to me that i don't know as much as I like to think I do!!):) I don't think either of us expect him to completely understand...ever...he just wants to know about it, and for some reason...I can't explain...I don't know why....ok with that, I think I'm gonna go study...(I really need to if I can't even explain what I believe in.....how embarrassing is that!!) thanks for all of your support....Chryssi gave me a wonderful website about christian-wicca...if anyone else knows of any...or can offer any help whatsoever...please let me know!! thanks again for your support!! *HUGS*

[MystyPines]

Just curious? How do you incorporate christianity into wicca? You mean to celebrate the holidays with your husband in sharing similar traditions such as Ostara/Easter with eggs that represent rebirth or Yule/Christmas with birth of the Sun or birth of the Son?

[Mairwen]

There are such things as ChristianWitches ~ and ChristianMystics ~ and so forth; I've even run across some Druidic groups which seem Christianized. But how they do "their thing", I have no idea. Is it wrong or implausible? Who am I to say ~ but I'd have to say no!

[Silver Venus]

Originally posted by MystyPines
celebrate the holidays with your husband in sharing similar traditions such as Ostara/Easter with eggs that represent rebirth or Yule/Christmas with birth of the Sun or birth of the Son?



Id say thats spot on!!

Elaine Im so sorry to hear about your problems ~ Im in the same boat with my boyfriend and I know how hard it can be ~ and can never explain it all either ~ i dont think anyone can really because wicca is what is personal to you!
But what I do say and you may like ~ is its just nature :sunny: I worship nature! So do you and so does he ~ In all its forms, you try to bring peace to your world and the world, and so did Jesus :)

Maybe plan to do a ritual with him so that he can feel and become more involved ~ maybe one for Midsummer! For the sun!
Whatever my boyfriend gets funny about magic and paganism I always show him or tell him or do something with him and then tell him ~ thats magic! :sunny: and its brilliant when it happens togther :heartthro

[Kaylara]

Well, it may be good to let your husband come here and ask questions... I think that you can be a pagan/christian. How you personally believe maybe hard to explain to someone else, as they don't look at the world the same way you do. My advice is to write down what you feel are the most prominent tenets in your own beliefs. I think that you will find that most of those tenets are common themes in both Christianity and Paganism.

Hope this helps...

Kaylara

[Elaine]

to answer your question MystyPines...I have not actually celebrated a wiccan holiday yet....When they come around...for example, Ostara....I sat by myself for awhile and meditated ...but as I am still studying I have not had an actual ritual of any kind yet....all I have done is a self-dedication...otherwise...I do meditations and say a little prayer every morning before I go to sleep...but that's it...I want to gain as much knowlege as possible and make sure I am ready before I do that!!

It helps to know that others know how I feel...cuz even today all this was on my mind....I tried to cheer myself up by planting some flowers in my garden...but I did not get to finish...it started raining!! it just feels like I'm missing something or forgetting something....I just have this pit in my stomach that I can't get rid of....I started crying out of nowhere at home while watching tv....luckily my dog was there and jumped in my lap and started licking my face to cheer me up (what would we do without animals??!!) :)

unfortunately Silver Venus my husband would not be open to doing anything like that with me....not to make you all hate him but he thinks we're all freaks!! he found this website that was talking about animal sacrifice and every one he came across had the word witch and then he looked up the word witch in the dictionary....oh geez!!! I just don't know how to talk to him!!

I will ask my husband if he would be willing to come on here and act adult and ask some questions....if he won't be nice and act adult, I won't tell him what the website is!!

Thanks for your help Chryssi....I appreciate you being there for me to email....I will if I need to! Feeling this way I didn't realize that this was how you felt when you e-mailed me....that makes me feel better!!

thanks to everyone...and thanks again to Mol for having this wonderful site..full of wonderful supportive people!! I don't know what I'd do without all of you...*HUGS FOR ALL*

[Lavender]

Elaine,

Don't worry about us. If your hubby does come on the site & is a bit offensive, we'll understand. Sometimes, it's a defense mechanism people have when they're uncomfortable with a situation. We will answer his questions & he will come to see that we're just ordinary people & not freaks.

Take care of yourself & don't burn yourself out.

[Elaine]

I'm trying not to burn myself out....but I still can't get rid of this pit in my stomach....I feel like I'm acting childish about all this, but I just don't know what to do....I guess it would be easier if I had time right now to straighten out my thoughts....I have not brought it up to him yet...(coming on here) but I will...and I'll let you all know in advance if I can! :) thanks for being understanding and not trying to bash him....I really love him and he loves me...he's a really good guy...he just falls under the subject of being afraid of what he knows nothing about....thanks for being here for me everyone....

[idusty88]

I've known several pagan/wiccans who also worshipped Christ and his teachings. I never thought of the two as being at odds.
If you have trouble talking to your husband about the subject, try writing a letter to him. That will give you a chance to choose exactly what to say without interruptions or pressure. Organize your thoughts in outline form and don't be afraid to go through a couple of drafts to get it right; then if he still doesn't understand, you will have to chalk it up to his obtuseness and not your failure to convey your meaning.
Good Luck!

[Dria El]

I have some articles I got off of a list I'm on. Maybe they'll help you. Here's one...


Christian Witch
by Aurora Starr

Christian Witch
(my personal decisions and path)
First of all you should know that when I came out as a Christian witch I was mocked and cast away by both Christians and Pagans! It is not an easy life.

You should also know that my path, my values, my beliefs they are constantly changing! So what I believe today may have evolved into something new by tomorrow! Keep that in mind.

Also, if you are thinking about combining these two religions as I have done, you should know that you are free to choose what you believe. You do not necessarily have to believe as I do. That is why when asked about my religion I always say "Pagan," because I am very eclectic and borrow from many different religions.

I celebrate both Christian holidays and the Pagan sabbats. I believe that the one true way to live is simple; abide the rede, the three fold law, keep close to the workings of Karma and the universal mother Earth, and every decision you make, make it with a pure heart. That is my faith in a nutshell!

I do believe in the Christian God. As of currently I am working out a few concepts or theories on this particular sanction of my belief system. Here are those concepts or ideas.

Concept One: There is only one God. This is the supreme power of all things. It is both male and female, all races, all religions, or it is none. This theory is based simply on this, If God is God off all people and things how can he be a white man? How could he be a black woman? He is the God of all races so he must be all races or none in my opinion.

Concept Two: There is only one God, but there are many different faces of God. Much like the Hindu, this concept is based on the fact the God has many faces and each face is God/dess of a particular thing. There is still only one supreme being but several ways to relate to that being.

Concept Three: There is a multitude of Gods and Goddesses. In Genesis in the bible it is said that God made man in his own image. If so then why are women and men anatomically different? Are we not both in the image of God? Also on this one I will refer to the ten Commandments. God says, "Ye shall have no other God above me." Does this not lead us to believe that there are other gods? And if there are other gods then there must be female deities as well, don't you think? So I kind of take this concept as my belief right now. For me, it is kind of like in Greek Mythology, Zeus was the head honcho. He was always prayed to first, respected the most, feared the most, but after that the people were free to worship the other Gods. Maybe that is what God meant by that commandment.

Another aspect that people say is a sin and in the bible is Homosexuality. First of all I do not believe this to be in the bible. I believe God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra (please excuse my spelling) because the city was wicked. They were wicked because they raped! It never says they were wicked because they were gay, that is just how it seems to be interrupted by most people.

I also believe in Satan, something Pagans do not usually believe in. I won't go as far to say that I believe there is an actual entity called Satan, but I know there is definitely a darker force out there. There is something where no good comes from. I'm not sure why I believe this so strongly, maybe it is just because I was raised in Christianity? I'm not sure, but today I know that I believe it very much.

Another major belief that I hold very near to my heart is this, It is NOT okay to harass or bash someone for their religious beliefs! This is absolutely uncalled for. You never put someone down because they disagree with you! Freedom of religion, means every religion. It applies to everyone! If a Christian tells you Jesus loves you, don't start a fight just say thank you. Now on the other hand, if a Christian tells you that you are satanic and going to hell, and they just will not leave you alone, that is harassment. Do not take it laying down! Don't go down to their level, but go through the proper channels so you do not have to deal with that anymore!

This is not an easy decision to make. I have spent the last six or so years bouncing back in forth between Christianity and Paganism. For me, I feel like this is the answer. I have finally found some peace! I wish you all well on your spiritual journey and blessed be!

http://www.angelfire.com/ar2/Aurora/

[Dria El]

Here's another one for you...

Christian Magic??
by Harold Curtis II

All is silent as a robed procession makes their way forward. The smell of incense wafts through the aisles and those celebrants assembled for the ritual. Two figures with Hysop branches sprinkle holy water before them, on the celebrants and even the priest whose vestments shine brightly. The procession splits in opposite direction to take their appointed places in the sanctuary. The priest begans to speak, making gestures over a goblet, a gold plate and the celebrants respond in the appropriate places. In turn the priest approaches each celebrant, or they approach him, and they receive a small wafer and a small ounce container of wine. The above is a communion ritual from the Christian tradition, although the form of the ritual can vary from church to church the essence is the same from one variation on the tradition to the other.

Traditionally Christians will tell you there is nothing magikal about the Christian tradition. If this is the case, however, then it begs the question why is Christian worship services pretty much consistent in structure and nature to what can be considered magikal ceremonies? To understand why this question must be asked, let us look at some of the components which are present in the Christian rituals. Terms such as Adoration, Invocation and others are very magikal in nature. The implication of these terms is we are creating an environment in which we can interact or commune with God. This is accomplished through various means. The use of incense, chanting, music, meditation or other suitable focal tools which make us receptive to the influence of the divine. There is purification, homage, respect, awe and mystery- all of which are also present in the pagan rituals and ceremonies.

Communion services aside, let us look at some of the other ceremonies which take place. Baby dedications are quite common, where the parent or guardians of the child bring the child into the community of celebrants to be blessed and placed under the protection of the church, with a distinct emphasis for the soul of the child. The implication of this ritual is that the child is somehow out of the protection of the divine until this dedication takes place. Without this ritual, the child will not only be forfeit of the blessings of God but be forfeit of any meaningful guidance the religious community has to offer. It is also a formal declaration on the part of the parents that they will bring their child up in the tenets of the religious community. Such an act relies upon social control and pressure to insure conformity from the parents. The pagan community is not without this element as well and similar rituals, again the outward forms are sometimes different but the essence is the same.

Prayer has always been considered magikal in nature, akin to spell weaving but again the Christian community attempts to make a distinction between one and the other, and while by definition the line is drawn the function and essence of the act remains the same. Prayer in the Christian tradition, as it does in it's pagan counter-parts, serves a variety of functions ranging from protection, healing to receiving wisdom or knowledge. The old child's prayer many say at bedtime is magikal in nature. "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep, should I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."

The child's prayer is very magikal in nature. The first aspect is it is only repeated at select times of the day, the interval just prior to sleep which indicates a special need for that particular period, a dangerous period which requires special intervention. The next aspect is in saying this prayer, we are insured protection which we would normally not have. The old belief of the devil being unable to touch you if you said your prayers at night is a very old theme in the Christian tradition. An interesting examination of the child's prayer is the concept that we are the keepers of our souls, we are not owned but free to place it in whose hands we wish. Not saying one's prayer before sleep places it in jeopardy not by the actions of God or the devil, but by ourself. Hence we have the concept of Karma introduced, our actions have consequences which touch our souls.

Church services in general are very magikal in nature, for at select times certain events occur. There is a balance of music, prayer, offering etc.... Even in the most spontaneous of traditions within Christianity, there is structure. Switching from music, to prayer, to offering, to invocation, to homily and back again is an act of building energy, spiritual energy in a place which has been hallowed and represents the world of eternity. Spiritual energy which is somehow taken into to us to make us stronger and wiser human beings. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a magikal ceremony/ritual!!

The roots of the Christian tradition is steeped in magikal roots. Jewish priests had ceremonies to be performed on certain days, under certain conditions. To not hold the ceremony or ritual on these days or when these conditions were not met means there is no power, no energy to work with. Even when ritual was met, being confronted with the divine did not always adhere to the confines of the ritual. Jewish priests had a rope tied to them with a bell, so if they entered the holy of holies and were found unacceptable the other priests could drag out the dead body.

Christians will tell you the source of their power is from God, and therefore not magikal. Pagan's will tell you the same thing, although they will say it is magikal and it is a gift from the divine. We are using a part of ourself which was created by the divine, who incidentally inhabits all of us. I have often heard Christian clergy talking about "Letting God work through them...", "letting the power of God flow through them." They talk in terms of a very tangible experience, of an energy which they can feel in a sensory way, as a physical energy. The implication being they are giving up control of their life to that of a higher power. This is characteristic of an ecstatic state, where through whatever means(Dance, music, meditation) one gives oneself over to the divine inspiration. The music, dance etc... are used as tools to overcome the conscious barriers we create, cutting us off from divine contact. Again we have not only shown the dynamics of a Christian church service, but the dynamics of a Pagan gathering.

Women's involvement in the Christian church has always been a precarious one, and in much of the tradition women have been painted in an unfavorable light, with a few exceptions to the rule. This concept is a twist on the Shamanic or tribal magic which makes a distinction between women's power and men's power. In a tradition which is traditionally dominated by males, it is easy to see why women's mysteries are resisted so much. The very act of preparing for life( a woman's time of the month) is seen as a period of being unclean. Shamanic and Pagan cultures view this event differently, for it is at this period a woman's power is the strongest.

Like it or not, the Christian tradition is a magikal one. The use of ritual, meditation, symbols, inspiration, healings, communion, blessing, prayer, exorcism, estatic states, prophets, miracles etc... make it so. It is a tradition of mystery.

Pagan or Christian, the essence is the same. Definitions and semantics are the only difference. The goal of each is the same, to bring the divine and mortal worlds together as one. The only differences are the ones which come when a variety of people from different backgrounds and different life experience come together in an effort to make sense of the world in which they live, and desire to be active in making it a better place.

[Catey]

Ok Let me see if I can explain this so it will make some sense to you. First Wicca is a British Isles RELIGION. I am not Wiccan yet I am very much a witch. And an accepted one with all the trimmings for those who need them. The reason I have the trimmings was so I would be able to teach. Not just my way but many ways. The ways the people who came to me needed and wanted. Enough about that for now. One way to explain being both is like this..................You say I am Christian or Jewish or Baptist or any other organized religion but I am Witch.......It is my craft...It is what I do.....the more you read and study you will find the beliefs of most religions are not all that different then your craft beliefs. I am talking the religion not the way people practice but the true beliefs. In fact most religious practices came from the craft. To explain the question of ............Well, but there is only one G-d is simple to those I practice with. We also believe in One G-d. But this G-d or force or what ever you choose to call it has many many aspects. Both masculine and feminine. Kind of what the Catholics have done with the Saints. If I am going to war then I call on that aspect to help me...The Morrigan Etc etc. At this point in my life I usually only work with and call on Hecate for to me she is the feminine side of Deity. She is All that was ...All that is and All that ever will be. But you see my beliefs are not so different then those of organized religions. Different from those who practice them but not from the true beliefs. Oh and yes I very much do believe in the duality of Deity and do always work with the Masculine side .

Sorry to run on and on it is hard to type this kind of stuff lol I am very verbal but pretty bad at this :-)

Oh and a good book for him to read would be hmmmmmmmm is it Calling down the Moon by Adler? My mind just went blank

May the Lord and Lady always smile on you
Catey

[idusty88]

Originally posted by Catey
Ok Let me see if I can explain this so it will make some sense to you. First Wicca is a British Isles RELIGION.
I have run into this misconception a couple of times before. I can only assume that it is born out of being exposed only to Alexandrian type literature.
Some people use the term wicca in a generic sense and some use it in a specific sense. Either way it is not a first or foremost or only British Isles religion, now or in the past. You might say most wiccan practices have European roots or more accurately Celtic roots and the Celts did have one of their last strongholds in England and Ireland, but this would be ignoring the other various pockets where these practices lived on.

[Catey]

OOps I remembered LOLOLOL
It is Drawing down the Moon
Sorry touch of memory loss :-)

Catey

[Catey]

And it is Murry not Adler lol I think I am a bit out of focus LOLOLOL

Just thought I would correct that.

[Elaine]

I'm so upset that I didn't read those articles sooner!!! :) Those are simply wonderful...those are so much help...I'm gonna print those out and show them to my husband!!! I got busy with work...and the articles were long so I skipped over them until I had more time....I'm so sorry I did that....thanks so much for those!!

Catey- your information was also very helpful...thanks:)

*hugs* to all for caring enough to help me out!!! thanks:)

[gunner]

very interesting! some very well thought out essays here, i'm enjoying this