Occultism encompasses even paganism.

[Gladeflower]

I opened a thread not long ago where I wanted to hear how people related the word ›occult‹ with ›wicca‹

I just wanted to mention something here down below, and I really want as many opinions that I can possibly get.

The academic literature I find about modern religious identity in my school library at least, put ›new age‹, ›wicca‹ and ›satanism‹ under the occult term.
But the chapter introducing with this definition is named ›Western Esotericism in Swedish youth-culture‹
And this book even encourages it all, its not that it wants to throw dirt on the paths with labeling it ›occult‹, like it would be a taboo or anything.
So it seems for this author like the hierarchy with umbrella terms goes


Esotericism
Occultism
then path specific paths like wicca and satanism


But the point is, I really need to organize these words for myself to my upcoming essay.
And I got a hunch earlier that these words relate to each other quite different in USA.
I want to know how you organize them, and how you thing the main stream organize them.
And what possible outlandish problems could there be if I did label wicca as the occult, is there any political correct thing going on here?

And also things like Harry potter and Gandalf is ›occult‹ to, according to both my professors and other muggles here

Thank you all, I really love MW and the good communication which we have here. And I will come with more weird questions in the next 6months when I will work on my essay.

[Serpent]

Typically, when I hear the word "occult" it often refers to western esoteric schools of ritual magic. It's from these schools that much we had in the beginning of modern neo-pagan faiths, and in the start of whole neo-pagan religious movement in terms of ritual structure and some parts of theology had it's origins. I say this because the western esoteric schools have typically been the ones to preserve the mysteries and teachings of the older pagan faiths in which much of these faiths had their starts within. And it's these schools that influenced the early movers and shakers of a few neo-pagan religions, and the neo-pagan religious movement. Now, neo-pagan faiths have come a long way since those starting times, what with the rise of reconstruction movements and the more wider emergence of studies on cunning-folk traditions, the elusive "family traditions", and the organic evolving and adapting to modern ideas that the old faiths have undergone to make them much more palatable.

What the mainstream likes to label in the "occult" section are those things that are out of touch with the status quo/social norms. Neo-pagan faiths are often that which are considered to out of touch with the established status quo, weither that is decided by more abrahamic or atheist-humanist-materialistic values is often determined by the communities social norms and status quo.

But when we look at the heart of the issue though, the word Occult simply means "hidden, obscured". When you say someone is occulted, it quite literally meant they were hidden from view or out of notice. When taken to apply to more metaphysical matters, the occult banner can be extended to any and all traditions that have mysteries to their teachings, or ideas about interacting with the unseen world and the forces therein. With that in mind, frankly any religion can be considered "occult". It has, it being the word occult, changed though over the years into the mainstream definition mainlly due to the perceptions put forth by specific religious teachings that used the word occult to define itself in this binary relationship, with the specific teachings being the right and true, and the teachings presented as "occult" as those teachings being false and unsafe. At least that has been the case within western minds regarding the Occult for some time now.

[mouseytalons]

I opened a thread not long ago where I wanted to hear how people related the word ›occult‹ with ›wicca‹

I just wanted to mention something here down below, and I really want as many opinions that I can possibly get.

The academic literature I find about modern religious identity in my school library at least, put ›new age‹, ›wicca‹ and ›satanism‹ under the occult term.
But the chapter introducing with this definition is named ›Western Esotericism in Swedish youth-culture‹
And this book even encourages it all, its not that it wants to throw dirt on the paths with labeling it ›occult‹, like it would be a taboo or anything.
So it seems for this author like the hierarchy with umbrella terms goes


Esotericism
Occultism
then path specific paths like wicca and satanism

But the point is, I really need to organize these words for myself to my upcoming essay.
And I got a hunch earlier that these words relate to each other quite different in USA.
I want to know how you organize them, and how you thing the main stream organize them.
And what possible outlandish problems could there be if I did label wicca as the occult, is there any political correct thing going on here?

And also things like Harry potter and Gandalf is ›occult‹ to, according to both my professors and other muggles here

Thank you all, I really love MW and the good communication which we have here. And I will come with more weird questions in the next 6months when I will work on my essay.

The dictionary definitons can be found, here are the links, as the information is quite extensive.
Esotericism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoctericism
Occultism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occultim#Occultism
The Half-Price bookstore that I shop at puts anything that isn't Christian in the Occult section. Everything from Judaism, to Islam, to wicca to astrology, tarot, to Native (earth based) Religions.
I tend to use Occultism as a general term, as it makes it easier for me to find what I am looking for.
Most of my path specific stuff can generally be found in the philosophy section.
I hope this helps as my attention span is shot at the moment.

[Gladeflower]

The Half-Price bookstore that I shop at puts anything that isn't Christian in the Occult section. Everything from Judaism, to Islam, to wicca to astrology, tarot, to Native (earth based) Religions.

This is interesting and useful.

Btw, your links are broken. But wikipedia aint a accepted source for a work in any institution.
I have searched the whole internet on the subject al ready anyway. Academic books or studies would be best.
I want some fresh definitions and thoughts by pagans them self, that I can use.
And I have to overlook myself aswell.
Maybe you understand where this is going ^^

[Proteus]

In terms of academic institutions I think you could use the terms interchangeably and still be understood. Occult has generally more negative connotations than esoteric though.

[Twinkle]

In terms of academic institutions I think you could use the terms interchangeably and still be understood. Occult has generally more negative connotations than esoteric though.


True enough. I would like to think that most of us know that the word simply means "hidden"

[Gladeflower]

True enough. I would like to think that most of us know that the word simply means "hidden"

Maybe I wont rant much more on this particular subject.
Okey, fair enough, I can make myself understood, but what I'm writing about is about constructing identity in the modern society.

You know that top 10 ways to annoy a pagan list that I(and others) posted here on MW
number 4 on that list: Fascinating. I'm a sociologist; may I study you as a phenomena?
Its more or less that roll Im taking now ^^

And I would want a community like this to post something at least, about how they separate these words, or dont separate. It tells much.
I am not only asking this board, but other boards as well, and common people.
If I find any pattern, and anyone cares. I could post them here

[Twinkle]

Maybe I wont rant much more on this particular subject.
Okey, fair enough, I can make myself understood, but what I'm writing about is about constructing identity in the modern society.

You know that top 10 ways to annoy a pagan list that I(and others) posted here on MW
number 4 on that list: Fascinating. I'm a sociologist; may I study you as a phenomena?
Its more or less that roll Im taking now ^^

And I would want a community like this to post something at least, about how they separate these words, or dont separate. It tells much.


I just don't care enough to separate anything for anyone. My religion frowns on occultism, and therefore I have nothing to do with it.

That being said, I don't have issues with other occultists, and if I want to know what they do, I simply ask them.

As Pagans, we are not mainstream. Bookstores don't know where to put books because the majority of people working at the Barnes and Noble ...and the patrons...aren't occultists.
Besides, it's easier to find everything in the New Age section. :P

I think there are bigger battles to fight. Like...religious freedom.

[IanCorrigan]

This is an interesting topic to me. I have always self-defined as an 'occultist' in addition to being a witch or druid or pagan. The relationship between "the occult" and Paganism is still being worked out, and makes a cool case-study.

The academic literature I find about modern religious identity in my school library at least, put ›new age‹, ›wicca‹ and ›satanism‹ under the occult term.
• Esotericism
• Occultism
• then path specific paths like wicca and satanism


To be clear, the first two words have no clear or distinct separation in English usage. They are both mainly propaganda terms with lettle actual content. One sect or another will try to claim they can give the 'true' definition of one or the other, but that's just doctrinalizing.

"Esotericism" is certainly the more respectable of the terms, in the US. The term has a place in the mainstream study of religions, and 'esoteric buddhism' is a recognized group of sects. The term means "for the few", and refers to specialized techniques or interpretations shared by specific sects.

"Occult" is all Hollywood :) "The occult" is a term mainly used to frighten parents and citizens with images of satanic baby-eaters at worst, and psychic rip-off artists at least. Back when I began my studies in the 1970s, bookstores had 'astrology and the occult' sections. Now they have 'New Age' sections, because 'occult' has become so tarnished.

Of course 'occult' means 'hidden. It refers to knowing the hidden abilities of yourself and of natural things, so that one can produce effects at will. Divination works by the hidden power of signs, herbal healing by the hidden power of plants. Stones, colors, wind, moon, the 'occult' arts teach how to use those hidden things. Some religions approve of that, some (even some Pagan religions) disapprove. Because a disapproving religion ran Europefor 1000 years, we have a bad notion of 'occultism' - Hinduism has no such dislike, for instance.

There's no doubt that Neopagan Witchcraft, and magick of the Golden Dawn, Aliester Crowley sort would have been referred to part of 'the occult' back in the 1970s. These days, in the US, our books tend to get filed in the New Age section, or even in the 'magical arts' section of more progressive pop bookstores.

Paganism has made a great effort to move into the 'religion' category in the US. Public Pagan worship groups in dozens of cities present a Pagan path that may never contain spells, or conjurings, or even divination. Pagans still have more interest in 'occult' spiritual arts than more mainstream religions, but you don't have to do any specific magical or occult practices to be a Pagan.

And also things like Harry potter and Gandalf is ›occult‹ to, according to both my professors and other muggles here

A pretty broad reading of 'occult' - mere fantasy hardly applies.

Love to see your essay...
Ian

[RubyFire]

is called occult. Like someone else said the word means hidden, but in the USA occult=Satanism, bad, unChristian, evil, dangerous, threatening to life, a danger to children, etc.

To me, eh.......probably means some 'old' religion, or someone who wants the patina of old because to them old=authentic.









*applies to Fundamentalist Christians