Athena calling to me?

[BrandonHamiltonn]

For about the past (4) months, i have been having headaches, bad headaches, seen doctors, NO cause. Just randomly in the day, almost every day. (Before i was pagan (was christian))

"Metis gave birth to Athena and nurtured her inside Zeus until Zeus complained of headaches and called for Hephaestus to split open his head with his smithing tools. Athena burst forth from his forehead fully armed with weapons given by her mother. She famously wields the thunderbult and the Ageis, which she and Zeus share exclusively."

Also, before i was pagan (and still now) I see a lot of things involving Athena, (without trying to)

Now that i am pagan, and try to pray to athena (i really dont know what im doing so i do it the way i did when i was christian only to athena)
the headaches arent as severe and not as often..

Could she be calling to me?

Is there a way and how should i embrace this?

[DiscordianKitten]

You could have someone cleave your skull open with an axe.

[BrandonHamiltonn]

You could have someone cleave your skull open with an axe.
^^
Sureeee

[DiscordianKitten]

Heh. Sorry. I couldn't resist. That particular legend is one of my favourite. I especially love the bit where the goddess of wisdom and war (or, as I like to think of her, the embodiment of a strong, intelligent woman) gave the most manly man god of all manly men gods a splitting headache.

To answer your question a bit more seriously though, I would say yes, Athena is calling to you, but I doubt she's actually giving you headaches. There's a difference between "doctors unable to find the medical cause" and "there is no medical cause". Also, let's face it, to be really true to the legend you would have to cut your head open.

As for how to embrace her, I'll leave this one for people who have relationships with gods and goddesses to answer.

[Agaliha]

I have no idea what the headaches are about. Since you said you went to the DR, I won't advise you to look into migraines or anything like that.

Have you tried talking with Athene and asking her yourself?
You could ask her for a (or some) signs to confirm your hunch.
Or you can worship her anyway and worry about the details of the relationship later, in time it'll build anyway.
Libations are a classic Hellenic offering. Wine, olive oil (seems fitting for her), water, etc. You can start there. An altar to her would be nice too.

You can find details on libations and offerings Hellenic style here:
Libations (http://sites.google.com/site/spondelibation/home/reconstruction-of-hellenic-polytheistic-practices/liturgical-resources/libation)
Offerings (http://sites.google.com/site/spondelibation/home/reconstruction-of-hellenic-polytheistic-practices/liturgical-resources/offerings)
Etc.

For info about Athene and what she may like:
http://neosalexandria.org/the-pantheon/athena -- lists epithets and has links to other sites
http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Athena.html
Etc.

[Æon Flux]

I suppose I would call it cognitive bias and a bit far fetched, but do disregard the skeptic in the corner, most people do. :toofless:

[petrus4]

I initially got in touch with Kali and Ma Durga (of whom Kali is one aspect) during the period when I was heavily playing World of Warcraft. There are a couple of player vs player battlegrounds in the game, and during them I'd go into a somewhat altered/semi-conscious state, and would find myself being a lot more effective in the game than usual.

I don't work with the Olympic pantheon myself, but AFAIK, Athena is a warrior Goddess, with similar energy to Ma Durga. So quite honestly, I'd probably get a nice, violent multiplayer FPS such as Call of Duty or something similar, and play that. She may start talking to you on an unconscious level while you do that, or she may consider that an offering and be happy with it on that basis.

[Agaliha]

I don't work with the Olympic pantheon myself, but AFAIK, Athena is a warrior Goddess, with similar energy to Ma Durga. So quite honestly, I'd probably get a nice, violent multiplayer FPS such as Call of Duty or something similar, and play that. She may start talking to you on an unconscious level while you do that, or she may consider that an offering and be happy with it on that basis.

Hmm. I'd personally associate those more with Ares than Athene. Athene was more about strategy and the mechanics behind the war, rather than being in the thick of it, shooting things up and such. Athene was associated with war, but more so to protect the city and the people. Less messy and more logical. Ares is about the violent, in the midst of it, getting bloody, type of war. I could see her more as a cop or lawyer, than a solider. She upholds law and order and things like that. She seems quite different than Durga or Kali, when you look at myth and personality.

Athene is also associated with crafts (weaving, pottery, etc), wisdom, logic, civic duty, protection, law and order, healing (epithet: Paeonia) and things of that nature. All of those things have many devotional ideas attached to them.

[Tobias]

For about the past (4) months, i have been having headaches, bad headaches, seen doctors, NO cause. Just randomly in the day, almost every day. (Before i was pagan (was christian))

"Metis gave birth to Athena and nurtured her inside Zeus until Zeus complained of headaches and called for Hephaestus to split open his head with his smithing tools. Athena burst forth from his forehead fully armed with weapons given by her mother. She famously wields the thunderbult and the Ageis, which she and Zeus share exclusively."

Also, before i was pagan (and still now) I see a lot of things involving Athena, (without trying to)

Now that i am pagan, and try to pray to athena (i really dont know what im doing so i do it the way i did when i was christian only to athena)
the headaches arent as severe and not as often..

Could she be calling to me?

Is there a way and how should i embrace this?

I take it that for some reason, you have gone from being a Christian to a pagan in the past 4 months?

As a Christian, I encountered Athena several years ago. She identified herself, and then left it to me to figure out what to do about it. I considered trying to stick with the Christian thing and call her the Voice of Wisdom from the book of proverbs, but chose instead to acknowledge her for who she said she was. I'm glad I did. :thumbsup:

I'm still working on my theology to explain my experiences, but i don't see that nearly as important as accepting the experiences for what they are. I usually see myself as following the Christian God, but sometimes I find it helpful to identify Him as Zeus. Especially when I'm dealing with other gods that Christianity just doesn't make any room for. lol

I know Athena mostly in her role as bringer of wisdom, but she has advised me on battle strategies more than once. Once I used her name in a stupid argument I was having with someone else, and quickly found that she did not like that and refused to back me up! I apologized to her, and then she showed me a way to gracefully remove myself out of the battle which I had started. In fact, I think she has advised me to make peace as many times as she has helped me with battle strategies to conquer my enemies.

Anyway, I do find it interesting how you have come to the idea that it is Athena who is trying to contact you. It makes me smile to think that it would be headaches that lead you here. Not because it is foolish or impossible, but just because of the creativity of it all! So while it could be coincidence and wild imagination; I wouldn't dismiss this as something They wouldn't do. It all depends on if it is a true spiritual leading you are following, or not. It most certainly is something within the scope of what is possible.

[Twinkle]

It sounds to me like you may be suffering from Burning Bush Syndrome....a rather Christian notion that the Gods actually care enough to be calling you in the forms of headaches. You have headaches with no cause (which really is ridiculous, a headache is a symptom)....and make a leap that a myth about Athena means she's calling you to do her bidding...or something.

[Erebos]

For about the past (4) months, i have been having headaches, bad headaches, seen doctors, NO cause. Just randomly in the day, almost every day. (Before i was pagan (was christian))

"Metis gave birth to Athena and nurtured her inside Zeus until Zeus complained of headaches and called for Hephaestus to split open his head with his smithing tools. Athena burst forth from his forehead fully armed with weapons given by her mother. She famously wields the thunderbult and the Ageis, which she and Zeus share exclusively."

Also, before i was pagan (and still now) I see a lot of things involving Athena, (without trying to)

Now that i am pagan, and try to pray to athena (i really dont know what im doing so i do it the way i did when i was christian only to athena)
the headaches arent as severe and not as often..

Could she be calling to me?

Is there a way and how should i embrace this?

Getting headaches isn't good. Are you stressed, or maybe allergic to something without realizing it? I know you said you've seen a doctor, but I wouldn't rule out a cause, whether physical or emotional.

It could possibly a psychosomatic reaction to the myth of Athena's birth, and maybe your unconscious mind is trying to relate to her and it is manifesting through physical symptoms. It wouldn't hurt to pursue cultivating a relationship with Athena, by continuing to pray to her, and giving her offerings (like libations of olive oil), and see how that works out. If you are drawn to her, by all means go with it.

[Tobias]

It sounds to me like you may be suffering from Burning Bush Syndrome....a rather Christian notion that the Gods actually care enough to be calling you in the forms of headaches. You have headaches with no cause (which really is ridiculous, a headache is a symptom)....and make a leap that a myth about Athena means she's calling you to do her bidding...or something.


How do you justify stating that this is a "rather Christian notion"?

Do you claim that very few pagans over the centuries have felt called by a specific deity? And that it has mostly been Christians that have felt the call into service by their God?

My grandfather saw three bars in the sky come together to form a cross. He took it as a sign, and became a minister. I'm sure there are other numerous examples of similar callings in Christianity. Are you saying there are no such callings in any of the pagan religions? I'm sure many people here on this forum would disagree.

Not to mention, the actual burning bush incident happened to an Israelite, not a Christian! So while it may be a story in the Christian Bible, it is not really a Christian experience. No Christian expects to hear God talking to them from a burning bush!

Your reference to a "Burning bush syndrome" has confused me every time you've used it, so do please tell! :thumbsup:

[Gaudior]

Thinking about it, I think that Twinkle is just trying to show the OP that it is probably just a headache, and not to jump automatically to the assertion that it is Athena. It could just be a headache...but you could still try to communicate with Athena I suppose.

[Twinkle]

*shrugs*.

Myths were never literal texts...and so to make a leap that one is being called by Athena *because they have a headache* makes me raise an eyebrow. I'm actually being rather restrained in my response, as my gut reaction is to suggest a full medical and psychological workup.


The mundane should always be ruled out before one assumes they are being called by the Divine. Sometimes a headache is a headache, and not the call of Athena.

Go with the mundane before the woo woo.

The Gods have better things to do, I think...then go around striking people with headaches to get us to do their Will. They are Divine, after all.

[Twinkle]

Thinking about it, I think that Twinkle is just trying to show the OP that it is probably just a headache, and not to jump automatically to the assertion that it is Athena. It could just be a headache...but you could still try to communicate with Athena I suppose.


For real. I've had a headache the last three days. ZOMG!! It's Athena calling me!!! What should I do????

Quite frankly, it's a ridiculous notion fpr me to have...and if I seriously thought it was Athena I'd be on my way to the psychiatrist. But maybe that's just me.

At the same time...I'm not saying that we aren't given signs. But even then, introspection and reason must take precedence. We must be careful that what we *want*, may not be what *is*.

Nothing wrong with learning about this Goddess, though. I just really think people need to be sane about this stuff.

[Gaudior]

I agree. Just drink some water, that helps headaches well. It just seems a little off to assume it's automatically Athena.

Vayu, for instance, is a Vedic wind God. It's really windy today. Is He trying to talk to me? I think it's just a windy day, but I could still say a prayer to Vayu. I see no harm in reaching out to Athena if you think you should :)

[Tobias]

Absolutely every sign given to anyone can be rationalized away. Especially if we want to take the position that the Gods are too big, powerful, and far too important to care about us humans. Heck, with that the case, why bother believing in them at all?


On the other end of the spectrum, we have multitudes of thousands of people who claim the Gods are personal to them. They claim that Somebody does care about many of the details of their lives, and are guided by an intelligence far superior to their own. Perhaps all too often the mundane things of life are mistaken for signs from the Divine, but isn't that a small price to pay along the path of discovering who and what it is that is guiding us?

I know some cannot be bothered. Some do not wish to have their plans for their life interfered upon by any god. Or some do wish for the comfort that comes from knowing someone supernatural cares, but feel unconnected themselves and are always wishing for more. Could this be the motivation behind a theology that states that "the gods do not care for me, so I'm certain they don't care for you either"? Behind the notion that those of us who do tell of personal relationships with the gods, are delusional and in need of psychiatric help?

[Gaudior]

It's not that the Devas don't care, it's just about jumping to conclusions. The sun is shining through my window. Is Surya trying to tell me something? Oh, well I'll wave to Him anyway *waves* :)

The point is, some things really are just mundane. That doesn't mean Athena may not be interested, just that this may not have actually been a sign from her. Has Athena given any other signs, such as in dreams, or when you are in meditation?

[Twinkle]

Hellenismos doesn't require belief. *winks*

The thing of it is, Tobias...if you want to think that a headache means Athena is knocking...so be it. I have just as much right to point out that a headache is sometimes just a headache.

The Gods don't need worship, they need *nothing* from mortals because they are Divine. We are not, and need to think like mortals, imnsho.

A relationship with the Gods is forged through worship. A relationship of reciprocity thus develops. Sure, any sign can be rationalized away, but the opposite is true, as well, anything (like a fricking headache) can be construed as some sort of Divine awakening.

That's why I said that reason and introspection are key. A sign is only a sign when it holds up against everything else.

I know that's probably not what you want to hear, but it is my perspective. Your mileage may vary.

I am also suspect of people that feel the need to spout their conversations with God(s) all over the internet. At least in terms of my religion, we don't have, and have never had "prophets", because all of us have the potential to live in the light of the Gods, provided that we live ethically, with piety, and so on.

Personal gnosis is what it is, and anything that helps us with our understanding of the Divine is simply ours...and doesn't need to be shouted from the rooftop.

I know we disagree on this, but that's OK. I respect the fact that you believe differently.

[Erebos]

I've had a headache the last three days. ZOMG!! It's Athena calling me!!! What should I do????

Is that really necessary? This isn't one of Tim's forums, mocking newbies who don't share your perspective isn't really acceptable behaviour.

[Twinkle]

I made sure I was mocking myself. I really have had a headache the last three days. By making myself an example, I was hoping to show that jumping to that conclusion looks ridiculous...especially coming from me.

[*GrumpButt*]

Have you had any brain scans done? Or seen an eye Dr? Eyestrain causes headaches. Or you could be dehydrated.

[Tobias]

Hellenismos doesn't require belief. *winks*

The thing of it is, Tobias...if you want to think that a headache means Athena is knocking...so be it. I have just as much right to point out that a headache is sometimes just a headache.

The Gods don't need worship, they need *nothing* from mortals because they are Divine. We are not, and need to think like mortals, imnsho.

A relationship with the Gods is forged through worship. A relationship of reciprocity thus develops. Sure, any sign can be rationalized away, but the opposite is true, as well, anything (like a fricking headache) can be construed as some sort of Divine awakening.

That's why I said that reason and introspection are key. A sign is only a sign when it holds up against everything else.

I know that's probably not what you want to hear, but it is my perspective. Your mileage may vary.

I am also suspect of people that feel the need to spout their conversations with God(s) all over the internet. At least in terms of my religion, we don't have, and have never had "prophets", because all of us have the potential to live in the light of the Gods, provided that we live ethically, with piety, and so on.

Personal gnosis is what it is, and anything that helps us with our understanding of the Divine is simply ours...and doesn't need to be shouted from the rooftop.

I know we disagree on this, but that's OK. I respect the fact that you believe differently.


Well, despite what differences we may have, I think we both agree that reason should prevail, right? :)

Did I not qualify my posts with enough statements to the fact that this may be nothing more than a headache and some wild imagination? I figured that angle was covered by enough other people, many who left no room for the possibility of anything else. Signs are signs, and usually it's only the person receiving them that can tell the difference between them and ordinary everyday occurrences. I don't see a problem with allowing someone to come onto a "spiritual sanctuary" and ask for advice on a possible sign. Seriously, what's wrong with one or two of the dozen or so posters actually entertaining the possibility that the guy isn't crazy or sick? By actually answering the question, allowing for the possibility that it is a sign, he/she may have realized that it is nothing more than a headache!


We all look for reasons to explain why everybody else is not just like ourselves. For me the axiom "Know Thyself" in part means accepting the fact that there are beings claiming to be gods who interfere with my life. Some people try to project onto me their theology or their world view, and I have spent many wasted hours trying to force my reality into their particular opinion. It's much like trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. So I have learned to accept that my situation is not the same as everybody else's. All things considered, this is the only reasonable explanation I can come to.

Perhaps the reason for this is because I have spent so much effort in trying to reach them. Or perhaps it is due to my attitude of allowing Them to be who they wish to be, without forcing the experience into an already pre-determined religious belief of what I think must happen. At any rate, I do believe I've had notable success; which I feel is worth sharing to others who are attempting the same themselves. What is the point of keeping it all to myself?

While some people may rely upon their experiences as a catalyst to further their social status, I hope that is not what you think I'm doing here. If I were, I wouldn't ever bring up the Christian aspect! Most certainly not in every post! lol

History is understood by studying history. Language by studying language. And those who seek after spiritual experiences, are not going to find them by reading dry books on theology and the origins of ancient cultures! We trade our stories and insight on our personal experiences, which help guide others who also desire to do the same. Spiritual experience is the main diet of my personal path, so yeah, I talk about what's important to me. In fact, I wish people would realize just how important it is to share your personal spiritual experience, and would do so more often. I hate the way it is "unacceptable" to talk about such things... like it's really so much more fun to talk about the random things education has programmed into our heads, or all the weird things happening in the news!

[mercurialmaven]

History is understood by studying history. Language by studying language. And those who seek after spiritual experiences, are not going to find them by reading dry books on theology and the origins of ancient cultures! We trade our stories and insight on our personal experiences, which help guide others who also desire to do the same. Spiritual experience is the main diet of my personal path, so yeah, I talk about what's important to me. In fact, I wish people would realize just how important it is to share your personal spiritual experience, and would do so more often. I hate the way it is "unacceptable" to talk about such things... like it's really so much more fun to talk about the random things education has programmed into our heads, or all the weird things happening in the news!

Hot damn! I think I just had a hallelujah moment in this thread. *waves church fan and dances down the aisle* Preach!

[Twinkle]

Intent is everything. I said I was "suspect" because the internet is shady at best, and no one can be absolutely sure of intent by those who want to share their "experiences" everywhere on the internet. I remember reading blog after blog of what the Gods "had revealed" to them...and while it was entertaining to read...it was also creating the impression that these people were "special" or "chosen" because the Gods were speaking to them on a regular basis and telling them what to do or say....when the reality of it is these people were living in their mom's basement eating cheese puffs while posting about these *amazing*experiences with Deity. In other words...vice ridden people duping others who are starving for spiritual guidance. It's reprehensible.

There became a fan base and a huge following of these people because the Gods "chose" them...and it ultimately became more about these "people" than it did honoring the Gods. That is also deplorable.

I don't discount the UPG. I just don't put a whole helluva lot of value on it.

I've often talked about how I view Deity - some of it is gnosis...but gnosis absolutely has to be weighed with what we know to be true...and that means research, reading, philosophy, and so on. Not as exciting I'm sure...but not all of us feel that we have to have a mystical experience to practice, as I said...the Gods shine their light on "all" of us. All we have to do is look outside, breathe in the air, feel the wind on our cheek. That enough tells me all I have to know about Deity. They are the very air that I breathe.

A religion based on nothing but feeling and emotion, is not balanced. Being well read and educated is equally important. Put too much focus on the experience over the practice, and one can easily buy into their own press.



It just doesn't have the same importance that it would to you,Tobias.

[BrandonHamiltonn]

For real. I've had a headache the last three days. ZOMG!! It's Athena calling me!!! What should I do????

Quite frankly, it's a ridiculous notion fpr me to have...and if I seriously thought it was Athena I'd be on my way to the psychiatrist. But maybe that's just me.

At the same time...I'm not saying that we aren't given signs. But even then, introspection and reason must take precedence. We must be careful that what we *want*, may not be what *is*.

Nothing wrong with learning about this Goddess, though. I just really think people need to be sane about this stuff.

I dont think 4 months later is a automatic assumption

[BrandonHamiltonn]

Have you had any brain scans done? Or seen an eye Dr? Eyestrain causes headaches. Or you could be dehydrated.

Yes

MRI, then a CT scan a month later,
Have been to eye doctor, 20/20 without correction
And no i drink plenty of water

[RoseKitten]

I had bad migraines when I was in HS, for years. Never once did I believe it was a "sign from the gods" about who I should be connecting to. The doctors (yes, I went to many) never did figure out why I was having them.

Just because they can't find the problem, doesn't make it divine in nature.

If you look hard enough, you can find signs for whatever you want. At the end of the day, nobody but YOU can tell you if you've connected with what you consider divine or not.

[Agaliha]

To the OP: I think if you want to and feel some sort of connection to Athene, look into it. Explore it. Give her offerings, say some hymns or prayers, set up a small shrine or whatever else. You can worship her and built a relationship with her without any earth-shattering sign or whatever else. ;)

[DiscordianKitten]

To the OP

The headaches are probably medical, but you associated them, and a range of other things, with Athena, therefore she is calling to you or, at least, you're calling to her in your heart.

A spiritual experience can often be found to have a reasonable explanation. This doesn't make them any less real.

[Tobias]

A religion based on nothing but feeling and emotion, is not balanced. Being well read and educated is equally important. Put too much focus on the experience over the practice, and one can easily buy into their own press.



Believe it or not, I actually agree with you here. In fact, when it comes to my foundations in Charismatic Christianity, I am very well read and can support a vast majority of my upg with biblical precedence.

I find it very frustrating that I can't do the same with Hellenism. I experience the Olympian gods, but cannot support the validity of these experiences with anything more than a vague reference to mythology or something else equally unsubstantial. Splitting headaches and feeling the desire to crack your head open to let Athena out is just about as good as most anything I've got too!

Every time I try to get more of a foothold in *true* Hellenism, I fail. I've tried reading the history of ancient Greece, and then yippie, I learn history. I read a synopsis about the gods, and I wonder where the writer got his or her information. And pretty much without fail, if I try to repeat anything I feel I've learned from my studies, someone is bound to come along and bite my head off for misrepresenting the "truth" about the religion!

Which is why I don't really care anymore. My foundations are Christian; where I took the time to learn how to listen to my God and work within a system of magick and follow the principles for responsible mysticism. Perhaps it's not the type of Christianity anybody here has ever encountered. But it works for me. Adapting just a few of the basic principles, and I have found an easy connection with pagan gods.

If you'll notice, I am very honest and upfront about where I'm coming from. I do not pretend to be some sort of pagan sage, or a prophet of the Olympian gods. I do not know why these other gods care to talk to me. Nor do I claim that they are the same Olympian gods that true Hellenist follow. I am not a Hellenist, so making that determination is something I leave up to those I talk to. I have even theorized that there may be many gods and goddesses that go by each of the names of the Twelve, as many different cities each had their own form of worship to each god, and at one point it was determined that they would all receive the same name. The Athena I know may be from some remote town that had a temple to her where they called her by another name. Then someone came through and identified her as "Athena" in an effort to unify the Greek speaking people, and she has gone by that name ever since. So I can't say if she's the same Athena that anybody else knows; or whether there's a super duper all powerful Athena beyond human reach that is different and separate from her. All I know is that she told me her name is Athena and pointed me to the Athena mythology to inform me about her nature.

Sometimes, setting my own quandaries aside, I will talk to an inquisitive person about a certain god without bringing up all my personal baggage. In these cases I believe the true identity of said god is not that important, and that the basic principles of connecting with a god are best conveyed without bringing up the question of identity. Many neo-pagans encounter various gods from various pantheons, so I can pretty much assume that at a minimum my encounters compare to this phenomenon.

And you know, this is just the freakin internet. We are free to say pretty much whatever we please. Right? :toofless: