Why does the 1% of Witches not read witch or folk lore?

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Okay I want to know something. Why is it that the 1% of witches, or Wiccans (I know that some Wiccans call themselves witches), don't read witch lore of folk lore. People many years ago collected this information so that people could read about it and it wouldn't get lost. So why don't they want to read it? I know that the books are dry but wouldn't it help them understand more about the roots of what they do.

Let me know as I did a blog on Witch School International that talked about Witch Balls and how they were popular in the 18th century and how even one web site, e-How, sighted that the practice was 600 years old. I'm going with the 18th century one because it was on a website that was run by glass blowers that make the witch balls so I think that they would know about it more than anyone as it's part of their history.

Let me know what you think and please answer my question.

[Agaliha]

I'm curious where you got 1% from...?

Why don't they read lore? I don't know. I'm assuming it's for a wide range of reasons, including not being interested, not having time or it not apply to their tradition or practice. There's also many modern books that complied old information in more helpful and interesting books, so people may be exposed to older lore without reading older texts.

They might also think these texts are outdated and the truth is some are...I'm talking about the free PDF/Texts on Sacred-Texts, Project Gutenberg, Archive.org, etc. Old herbal lore books, for example, may have incorrect medical assumptions and treatments that by today's standards are best not to follow. Also, some of these older texts are written by people that are biased, skewing history and information. There are texts about witchcraft that are older and talk of devil worship and such. And though it's not about witchcraft, a perfect example of this are the older texts about the Aztecs. Many were written by Catholics, their conquerors and many are incorrect and biased. There's other reasons why older texts aren't always the best, but you get the idea.

I think giving older texts a try is a good idea, but it shouldn't be a requirement or expected of a witch to read and use them.

[U-we-tsi-a-ge-ya]

I'm tossing this out there and praying that nothing too hungry or grumpy bites.....

It could be because they are afraid that should they read it, Their opinion and veiws of their path/craft will be hindered and changed. Basicly they are afraid to. Which I must add,If you want to walk that path you have to be willing to accept it,Rough history and all.

Another reason could be that they just don't care to. I was the same way. I jumped into things without doing a full background check because the history didn't matter to me.(Most of the time I regretted that).

It may just be a matter of time and resources. Alot of people don't have the time to sit down and read and learn about it. Many may not have acess to that materials and resources either. The library closest to me has a section so small that it's only 3 shelves of 'witch/Wiccan friendly' books on history and folk lore.Compare that to the 14 shelves of Muslim/Christian/Jewish books that make up the rest of the section.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I'm curious where you got 1% from...?

Why don't they read lore? I don't know. I'm assuming it's for a wide range of reasons, including not being interested, not having time or it not apply to their tradition or practice. There's also many modern books that complied old information in more helpful and interesting books, so people may be exposed to older lore without reading older texts.

They might also think these texts are outdated and the truth is some are...I'm talking about the free PDF/Texts on Sacred-Texts, Project Gutenberg, Archive.org, etc. Old herbal lore books, for example, may have incorrect medical assumptions and treatments that by today's standards are best not to follow. Also, some of these older texts are written by people that are biased, skewing history and information. There are texts about witchcraft that are older and talk of devil worship and such. And though it's not about witchcraft, a perfect example of this are the older texts about the Aztecs. Many were written by Catholics, their conquerors and many are incorrect and biased. There's other reasons why older texts aren't always the best, but you get the idea.

I think giving older texts a try is a good idea, but it shouldn't be a requirement or expected of a witch to read and use them.

Because the 1% seem to be answering with stupid answers like the following: The people that sell witch balls are only calling them witch balls to sell them, or it's superstition, or where did you even get your information from, or the best one what's old school witchcraft?

Old school witchcraft was before Gardner when witches didn't care about the rede and didn't have one. Or the one that really made me think that they don't actually read anything about witch lore or folk lore is as follows: Laughing at me but going silent when I suggested that they read witch lore and folk lore that doesn't come from a new age book.

They'll read the fluffy books but they won't read history of their craft or the lore and folk practices that surrounds it. They really need to go to the Witchcraft Museum in England or watch videos that others posted that went there. That will really show them what they really did back then.

I personally like the poppet dolls with pins myself but that's only me.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I'm tossing this out there and praying that nothing too hungry or grumpy bites.....

It could be because they are afraid that should they read it, Their opinion and veiws of their path/craft will be hindered and changed. Basicly they are afraid to. Which I must add,If you want to walk that path you have to be willing to accept it,Rough history and all.

Another reason could be that they just don't care to. I was the same way. I jumped into things without doing a full background check because the history didn't matter to me.(Most of the time I regretted that).

It may just be a matter of time and resources. Alot of people don't have the time to sit down and read and learn about it. Many may not have acess to that materials and resources either. The library closest to me has a section so small that it's only 3 shelves of 'witch/Wiccan friendly' books on history and folk lore.Compare that to the 14 shelves of Muslim/Christian/Jewish books that make up the rest of the section.

That's the impression that I got as well. You spend hours doing actual research from the people that know the full history of a certain item only to be laughed at. If your going to be a witch read the full history so that you know what it's all about. Now I'm not asking people to practice it the way that the old timers did but at least understand it so that you can give a good answer or correct someone that's wrong.

[)O( ~ Khara~ )O(]

I'm sorry but I don't think your numbers are correct. Where are you getting that percentage from? Who exactly was interviewed that said they didn't read their own histories?

I am rabid for any information I can get and read constantly. I haunt old bookstores, swap meets, garage sales, flea markets and so forth always looking for anything I can find on the occult whether is is directly related to my path or not.

I personally don't know many who don't do the same.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I'm sorry but I don't think your numbers are correct. Where are you getting that percentage from? Who exactly was interviewed that said they didn't read their own histories?

I am rabid for any information I can get and read constantly. I haunt old bookstores, swap meets, garage sales, flea markets and so forth always looking for anything I can find on the occult whether is is directly related to my path or not.

I personally don't know many who don't do the same.

It's the same thing when you say only 1% of Christians actually hate Wicca and witchcraft. It's a way of not including those with brains. Also when you have people that laugh at you because you believe that many years ago people used something and the people that used something have been dead and gone for a long time then it makes you really stop and think about why they are laughing at you. To openly mock someone who knows what their talking about is wrong and it shows that you haven't read the history of witchcraft and the practices of the cunning folk.

The guy who opened his mouth and asked where I got my info from. He quoted wikipedia, which I don't like because anyone can write whatever they want. I tried to show him where I got the information but he once again showed that he hadn't read anything and thus didn't know what he was talking about. I don't mean to come along as rude but when you've been reading about something, and it's from real sources (like those glassblowers that have been doing something like this and it's a family business, meaning that the family has been doing it for a very long time) then I really annoys you.

While I'll agree that there are witches out there that do read the history of the craft, like you do, there are those that don't. And those that don't, and not because they don't have the money because you can read some of them as e-books, make the rest of us look bad. Next time I'll write a blog about Thailand spirit houses to really see if they really have read folk lore or witch lore and also to separate the smart witches that really understand what their talking about from those that don't.

Oh the Ozarks use witch balls as well.

[U-we-tsi-a-ge-ya]

That's the impression that I got as well. You spend hours doing actual research from the people that know the full history of a certain item only to be laughed at. If your going to be a witch read the full history so that you know what it's all about. Now I'm not asking people to practice it the way that the old timers did but at least understand it so that you can give a good answer or correct someone that's wrong.

Well Put My friend :) Knowledge is power and you never know,that knowledge may come in real handy one day.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Well Put My friend :) Knowledge is power and you never know,that knowledge may come in real handy one day.

Thanks. I sent my money out for 'A Grimoire for Modern Cunning Folk' and 'The Call of the Horned Piper.' I should be getting them at the beginning of the week, next week, I'm really excited.:thumbsup:

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I tend to think that part of the problem lies in the nature of the subject. There was no universal one size fits all practice so it's logical that no singular book could address all from one perspective.

To use Witchballs as an example. Where glass blowers were to be found one might be expected to see the rounded shaped balls. Many times that sort of green colored glass you get from the old methods. Occasionally the capped ones where the blower was a practioner of sorts themselves and placed the items within then sealed the globe with a glass plug.

Yet in other areas the witchball was actually ceramic or pottery styled in nature. Those small medicine jar type things with thier corks wedged in. Some molded by hand from clay, some actually carved from tree's. Things that could be seen in plainseight yet perform their function without raising concern or speculation.

Yet that still avoids the more folkish form that was made from small gords.

So to focus upon the glass blowers exclusively is nearly as corrupting in perspective as to not research at all. Again one has to look to the area, the time frame and the custom's of the people being considered.

I think the other thing is which history should one read? Granted a great many are slanted towards a Christian perspective but that is logical considering that most writing and such was perserved through the monastaries. The invasion cycles of old Ireland, the Edda's and Saga's of the North, even a large number of the Medeterrian basin stories preserved through being written down by clerics.

Yet even that is failable when one looks to which age. The romanized greek histories change with each generation. The very meaning and usage of word choices equally changing. Like I pointed out elsewhere Medea changed from a sorceress in early accounts to a witch in later ones. Circe having the same things done to her through historical accounts and re-tellings.

Knowledge is seen as power and truth, yet the farther away one moves from the source tales the more untruth one finds. Yet that very untruth arising due to the change and evolution of the words used to record it and the notion of what it actually was.

I think many tend to avoid parts of it simply from the position they have read and do not fully understand the parts they read. After a bit it becomes about more than just reading an older book but about all the colleteral requirements needed to understand the book. Which of course doesn't even trully touch upon the translation and who translated it.

The very notion of the name Pachet associated to Bast is due to a bad translation of an older text.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I tend to think that part of the problem lies in the nature of the subject. There was no universal one size fits all practice so it's logical that no singular book could address all from one perspective.

To use Witchballs as an example. Where glass blowers were to be found one might be expected to see the rounded shaped balls. Many times that sort of green colored glass you get from the old methods. Occasionally the capped ones where the blower was a practioner of sorts themselves and placed the items within then sealed the globe with a glass plug.

Yet in other areas the witchball was actually ceramic or pottery styled in nature. Those small medicine jar type things with thier corks wedged in. Some molded by hand from clay, some actually carved from tree's. Things that could be seen in plainseight yet perform their function without raising concern or speculation.

Yet that still avoids the more folkish form that was made from small gords.

So to focus upon the glass blowers exclusively is nearly as corrupting in perspective as to not research at all. Again one has to look to the area, the time frame and the custom's of the people being considered.

I think the other thing is which history should one read? Granted a great many are slanted towards a Christian perspective but that is logical considering that most writing and such was perserved through the monastaries. The invasion cycles of old Ireland, the Edda's and Saga's of the North, even a large number of the Medeterrian basin stories preserved through being written down by clerics.

Yet even that is failable when one looks to which age. The romanized greek histories change with each generation. The very meaning and usage of word choices equally changing. Like I pointed out elsewhere Medea changed from a sorceress in early accounts to a witch in later ones. Circe having the same things done to her through historical accounts and re-tellings.

Knowledge is seen as power and truth, yet the farther away one moves from the source tales the more untruth one finds. Yet that very untruth arising due to the change and evolution of the words used to record it and the notion of what it actually was.

I think many tend to avoid parts of it simply from the position they have read and do not fully understand the parts they read. After a bit it becomes about more than just reading an older book but about all the colleteral requirements needed to understand the book. Which of course doesn't even trully touch upon the translation and who translated it.

The very notion of the name Pachet associated to Bast is due to a bad translation of an older text.

I mostly focused on the glass blowers because of the fact that I'm tired of getting information that I later on find out is false. However there are other sources that I look to and that includes e-How and a number of other sites. Wikipedia is the worse one, as I've said before, and I'm always warning others to avoid it. I've seen pictures of other witch balls that did include the gored and even the witch bottles. But the round ones seem to be the most popular and the one that you see in most books that talk about Traditional practices. Of course when I get my two books then I'll see if any different pictures were added of the same thing.

I'll let you know how that ends up.

Oh if you go on www.witchball.net they talk about them as well. Of course I also mentioned that they were known as friendship balls and oh they had some stupid comment to make about that and that included the following "If you were really someone's friend why would you give them something like that."

[EavanStar]

I dont necessarily think that its b/c people arent reading, but everyone is interested in different things and are more familar with different topics than yourself. Just b/c I dont know about witchballs doesnt mean im not famiilar at least in part with the history of the path Im on. I may not know all witchballs, but maybe Im well versed in something you have no idea about.

Of course, that guy who refuted the witchballs...he sounds like one of those you just can teach regardless of proof..lol. And that kind is found in every religion. :p

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Off Topic but something you might find interesting.

Until about 20 years ago probally glass balls of various sizes were used in the fishing industry as net floats. I have 4 of them today, three the size of a mush mellon (abt 5 inch) and one the size of a large bean ball (abt 2 ft). We used to go down to the beach in northern Japan after large storms and you'd usually find 2 or 3 of the medium or small sized ones washed up on shore. I bough the large one in a store.

Like regular blown glass they were of a opaic green color or a bluish color for some of the smaller ones. Had the plug indention to show where they connected to the rod when blown and rolled.

While most of them where simply glass balls used as floats, every once in a blue moon type thing you'd find one that had something in it. Not sea water but other things, sea shells, sand dollars, hooks that made you think there was some sort of water magics being utilized.

So not all bottle magics were witch-bottles. I never did find anything in any books or stories about the glass balls used as floats but I did see a few that were "Fixed" so know that it was done as recently as 20 years ago when I was stationed in Japan.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Off Topic but something you might find interesting.

Until about 20 years ago probally glass balls of various sizes were used in the fishing industry as net floats. I have 4 of them today, three the size of a mush mellon (abt 5 inch) and one the size of a large bean ball (abt 2 ft). We used to go down to the beach in northern Japan after large storms and you'd usually find 2 or 3 of the medium or small sized ones washed up on shore. I bough the large one in a store.

Like regular blown glass they were of a opaic green color or a bluish color for some of the smaller ones. Had the plug indention to show where they connected to the rod when blown and rolled.

While most of them where simply glass balls used as floats, every once in a blue moon type thing you'd find one that had something in it. Not sea water but other things, sea shells, sand dollars, hooks that made you think there was some sort of water magics being utilized.

So not all bottle magics were witch-bottles. I never did find anything in any books or stories about the glass balls used as floats but I did see a few that were "Fixed" so know that it was done as recently as 20 years ago when I was stationed in Japan.

Thanks for sharing. I'm interested in all sorts of things and it seems that witch balls and witch bottles have caught my attention. I'm going to look more into them and into everything that has to deal with English cunning folk and practices.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I dont necessarily think that its b/c people arent reading, but everyone is interested in different things and are more familar with different topics than yourself. Just b/c I dont know about witchballs doesnt mean im not famiilar at least in part with the history of the path Im on. I may not know all witchballs, but maybe Im well versed in something you have no idea about.

Of course, that guy who refuted the witchballs...he sounds like one of those you just can teach regardless of proof..lol. And that kind is found in every religion. :p

I really hate it when people don't want to learn and didn't mean to insult you.

[EavanStar]

I really hate it when people don't want to learn and didn't mean to insult you.

Oh, you didnt!!! :D I was just saying that we may all bring different things to the table. I also dislike when people dont want to learn about things that would benefit them based on their personal views and such.

[Æon Flux]

Wouldn't it be like asking why so many Christians don't read the Tanakh?

For a lot of people it's just no a relevant reading for their spiritual practices. Especially, I'd imagine, for Wiccans.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Oh, you didnt!!! :D I was just saying that we may all bring different things to the table. I also dislike when people dont want to learn about things that would benefit them based on their personal views and such.

I'm glad that you weren't insulted and I agree with you.

[aranarose]

Mine is an experiential practice, and I read what is relevant to my needs and curiosity at the time.

[Micheál]

I'm not sure what sort of Wiccans we're talking about here, but all of the Alexandrians in Ireland(who are Witches) are required to study and write essays on folklore.

[memnoch]

When I was a pagan I read several books but then gave them up altogether. I found that most of what was in print was too vanilla or fluffy for me. Most of what I found was very "white/green" witch...even the ones that were supposed to be a bit more edgy suggested such things as baking cookies shaped as animals to sacrifice...I found it to be a joke. I also found many authors, including many of the most well respected, to be either quite full of themselves or fake in an attempt to appeal to the masses and avoid offending.

[aranarose]

When I was a pagan I read several books but then gave them up altogether. I found that most of what was in print was too vanilla or fluffy for me. Most of what I found was very "white/green" witch...even the ones that were supposed to be a bit more edgy suggested such things as baking cookies shaped as animals to sacrifice...I found it to be a joke. I also found many authors, including many of the most well respected, to be either quite full of themselves or fake in an attempt to appeal to the masses and avoid offending.

>.< Baking cookies shaped like animals to sacrifice? Seriously? Gods help us all...

I have no problem with animal sacrifice, if done respectfully and properly, in an appropriate setting and manner. Sacrifice has a long, long history throughout many religions. To water it down by suggesting one bake cookies is just ridiculous and utterly disrespectful of those traditions, and completely defeats the purpose of the sacrifice, which is to spill the blood of a living creature. Not only that, the animals chosen to sacrifice were meaningful. They were the best of the animals, the largest cow, the biggest chicken, etc. Baking cookies does not equate.

[memnoch]

>.< Baking cookies shaped like animals to sacrifice? Seriously? Gods help us all...

I have no problem with animal sacrifice, if done respectfully and properly, in an appropriate setting and manner. Sacrifice has a long, long history throughout many religions. To water it down by suggesting one bake cookies is just ridiculous and utterly disrespectful of those traditions, and completely defeats the purpose of the sacrifice, which is to spill the blood of a living creature. Not only that, the animals chosen to sacrifice were meaningful. They were the best of the animals, the largest cow, the biggest chicken, etc. Baking cookies does not equate.

Yeah, sadly I don't remember which book I read that in...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry

[aranarose]

Yeah, sadly I don't remember which book I read that in...I didn't know whether to laugh or cry

It doesn't surprise me. Not in the least. Everything is watered down and fluffy. Gotta make paganism less scary so the masses will accept it.

[FiresSong]

I've read quite a bit in my time, from the super-fluffy to things one has to read a few times to really get the gist. I don't know many pagans who aren't itchy to read everything they can.

I did manage to miss the animal-shaped cookies business, however...thankfully. O.o

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Mine is an experiential practice, and I read what is relevant to my needs and curiosity at the time.

Interesting:thumbsup:.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I'm not sure what sort of Wiccans we're talking about here, but all of the Alexandrians in Ireland(who are Witches) are required to study and write essays on folklore.

I'm talking about those outside of the Alexanderian tradition. Of course I don't know that much about that type of tradition. Those that don't think it's important to read those dusty, boring, books. The majority do and we can be thankful.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

It doesn't surprise me. Not in the least. Everything is watered down and fluffy. Gotta make paganism less scary so the masses will accept it.

Oh I agree but even then there are people out there that think that we're evil or going to go to hell. Have you seen the nonsense that goes on just because people that practice Voodoo and Santeria kills chickens. Give me a break. All the chicken animal lovers come out and say "Oh the chicken didn't deserve to be killed like that." Grow up you sob story animal lovers. Chickens aren't people, they are food.

So what they sacrifice chickens or do other things that's how they do that. I've been listening, on youtube, to a gentleman that's a hereditary witch and I've also read some discussions about Cornwall witchery and some of the things that they do would make pagans mad, like cursing, and doing blasting magic. Oh and lets not forget that he said that there is a difference between a Book of Shadows and a Grimoire (I hope I spelled that right). Oh that's going to make some people mad, those that have no life and actually care about stuff like that.

The point I'm making is that while the stuff may be dry and boring to some it isn't dry and boring to most. I'm glad to see that Traditional Wiccan coven do read witch lore and folk lore. I'm reading 'The Handbook of Folklore,' I believe that's what it's called. I'm going to go back and double check the title. It's on a PDF so I can read it for free. I like it, once you get over the dry language, and it's pretty fascinating.

One time, I think it was two weeks ago, I said that I believe that cursing someone was needed if they had done wrong on you. I said that it all depended on what they had done to you would be how severe the cursing would be. Little things like stealing would warrant something that would cause them to not only lose something but also to get them to return what they had stolen from you. However if you don't know who did it then I think that you should just leave things alone until you catch them again.

Now I'm not against murdering people that I think did bad but I was using that as an example. It might be a bad one but it was just a general example. When I told people that I've done cursing in the past, many years ago, they got all mad at me and told me that I was no Wiccan. I told them, 'Of course I'm no Wiccan, there's nothing out there that I really want to read about.'

That's because I've read all the fluff and wish to move on. Personally I don't view us being recognized as anything important. Why should we need some judge to rule that we have the right to practice. Recognition is great and all but what's important is how do we feel about what we do. The end of the conversation was as such: "When you get hit three times due to your evil then you'll know that we were right."

That was ten years ago and I'm still waiting.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Sekhmet Soul30 wrote: Oh I agree but even then there are people out there that think that we're evil or going to go to hell.

What's nice though is that it occurs less and less now than it did years ago. I usually make them mad though and tell them i'd be glad to have them there with me as they are breaking their own beliefs.


Have you seen the nonsense that goes on just because people that practice Voodoo and Santeria kills chickens. Give me a break. All the chicken animal lovers come out and say "Oh the chicken didn't deserve to be killed like that." Grow up you sob story animal lovers. Chickens aren't people, they are food.

Ah careful there. Chickens are part of the winged peoples of the planet. As such they deserve respect and honoring as much as a human. From a shamanic perspective and Hedgewitchary perspective animal husbandry is a core tennent. Most times its not about not harming its about thanking them for their sacrifice and not inflicting un-necessary pain in their demise.


So what they sacrifice chickens or do other things that's how they do that. I've been listening, on youtube, to a gentleman that's a hereditary witch

That is a red flad to me. People are born into hereditary lines but no one is a hereditary witch. Perhaps more prone to following that pathway or being called to it but in no way born with it. That's actually more of the eliticism that was rampant during many of the so called witch wars of who was more witchy.

One might equate it to the driving force in the Harry Potter films of "Purebloods" and "Muggles" though they tend to forget about the "Squibs".


and I've also read some discussions about Cornwall witchery and some of the things that they do would make pagans mad, like cursing, and doing blasting magic.

Your showing a narrow scope again. Cursing and evil eye is really common in things like Stregia. Folk traditions and many types of granny magics also recognize and use curses. Heathenism in some ways also speaks of curses when appropriate. So Pagan's being mad is a relatively narrow guage.


Oh and lets not forget that he said that there is a difference between a Book of Shadows and a Grimoire (I hope I spelled that right). Oh that's going to make some people mad, those that have no life and actually care about stuff like that.


A BOS and a Grimoire are different though I think the difference is more to be found in ceremonial magics than common Pagan practices. What one might identify as high magics versus the low magics many pagans practice. It's like the usage of the word tome's to describe a singular volume in a larger collection of material. Some practices would refer to the Solomonic works as Grimoires (contains magical workings) yet the entire collection of works as magical tome's when refering to each individual volume, ie greater keys, lessor keys, etc.


The point I'm making is that while the stuff may be dry and boring to some it isn't dry and boring to most.

Thats a very opinionated statement that can't be backed up. I ifreely admit a lot of early works i've read are or were like pulling teeth. It hurt to get through them as the subject was so poorly written on, the author was very much uninformed of the material being presented. It was presented in the typical your going to hell for doing this.

That and lots of it is allegorical in nature so one has to do more than just read to understand the scope and depth of the material and the people. Many groups using story or fable format to convey the meaning of ethics, reasons, usage, etc.

It's like some read the story of Iphigenia who is sacrificed to Artemis but don't get the full depths of it. Pride, vanity, revenge are surface aspects of it but the deeper positions of women in the society are not so easy to grasp. yet the story is dry in many ways, especially given that the outcome changes somewhat depending upon who is telling it and when.


I'm glad to see that Traditional Wiccan coven do read witch lore and folk lore. I'm reading 'The Handbook of Folklore,' I believe that's what it's called.

Part of the problem here though is that much of what is recorded is actually urban legend. And like urban legends of today much of it has no root in truth or realility, simply stories made up. It's the Crybaby bridge of its day.

It's like the nursery rhyme "Ring around the Rosies" many teach it to their children but the actuall rhyme simply serves to recall and understand the black plague period. A ring that was formed around a red wound. Pockets full of possies to hide or mask the stench of death. Ashes, ashes we all fall down about the burning of bodies and how all would eventually fall down.

Over the years I've spoken to many practioners that had a list of books or volumes they had to read for thier particular practices. Seldom did you find more than one or two that acutally crossed over.

Heathens reading the eddas and saga's but seldom reading the material from the mediterrian basin. Gilgamesh on some lists but not others. Yet each driven and suggested to enhance and guide particular pathways. Sort of like the Volsung saga, two versions known of it with two different hero sets yet the story is the same.


One time, I think it was two weeks ago, I said that I believe that cursing someone was needed if they had done wrong on you. I said that it all depended on what they had done to you would be how severe the cursing would be. Little things like stealing would warrant something that would cause them to not only lose something but also to get them to return what they had stolen from you. However if you don't know who did it then I think that you should just leave things alone until you catch them again.

Here you appear to be speaking about the difference between curses, hexes, evil eye, etc. Curses are not just a one size scenario but are broken down into levels and degree's.


That was ten years ago and I'm still waiting.


I do think you've got the Wiccan notion of rule of three messed up with the shake and bake version of it. Most traditional Wiccans I knew would tell you it meant that every action would come back upon you in up to three ways, physcially, emotionally or spiritually, or any combo of those three. It was never about something coming back x three in strength.

For instance you steal something. The return is potentially to go to jail when caught which is physical. The mental anguish upon self if you have any morale or ethical values. the spiritual tarnishing of having your beliefs and practices inpaired as the other two influences cause you hardship and loss of ability to do things.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

When I was a pagan I read several books but then gave them up altogether. I found that most of what was in print was too vanilla or fluffy for me. Most of what I found was very "white/green" witch...even the ones that were supposed to be a bit more edgy suggested such things as baking cookies shaped as animals to sacrifice...I found it to be a joke. I also found many authors, including many of the most well respected, to be either quite full of themselves or fake in an attempt to appeal to the masses and avoid offending.

I vaguely recall reading a book (actually a number of them but they all referenced back to the same source material) that suggested you take potatoes or soap and carve an animal figure into it for sacrifice. If you were somewhat skilled even carving a piece of wood into some rude form to use vice actually sacrificing a living creature.

The cookies and such was mentioned but a little harder to discount as in greek legends and works certain cakes and baked goods were common sacrifices to many gods / goddesses. Yet I must confess I never saw one or heard of one that was baked into any animal shape to represent that particular animal.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I'm talking about those outside of the Alexanderian tradition. Of course I don't know that much about that type of tradition. Those that don't think it's important to read those dusty, boring, books. The majority do and we can be thankful.

You've got a broad stroke there again. Many Garderniarns (sp) I've spoken to have nearly the same requirements as the Alexanderian's. Well what they could or would say about it as I am not initiated into any of those pathways. The critical facet here being those that are lineaged versus those that are not is where I see the major change in requirements.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

You've got a broad stroke there again. Many Garderniarns (sp) I've spoken to have nearly the same requirements as the Alexanderian's. Well what they could or would say about it as I am not initiated into any of those pathways. The critical facet here being those that are lineaged versus those that are not is where I see the major change in requirements.

Sorry, my mind isn't narrow though my writing is. Also having gas from eating spicy foods don't help.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Sorry, my mind isn't narrow though my writing is. Also having gas from eating spicy foods don't help.

Oh that's bad you should never give a retired sailor an opening like that. Gas, Mind & pressure to many possibilites opening on that one.:bigredgri And they say a man's brain moves about the body he he he :smileroll

[Sekhmet Soul30]

What's nice though is that it occurs less and less now than it did years ago. I usually make them mad though and tell them i'd be glad to have them there with me as they are breaking their own beliefs.



Ah careful there. Chickens are part of the winged peoples of the planet. As such they deserve respect and honoring as much as a human. From a shamanic perspective and Hedgewitchary perspective animal husbandry is a core tennent. Most times its not about not harming its about thanking them for their sacrifice and not inflicting un-necessary pain in their demise.



That is a red flad to me. People are born into hereditary lines but no one is a hereditary witch. Perhaps more prone to following that pathway or being called to it but in no way born with it. That's actually more of the eliticism that was rampant during many of the so called witch wars of who was more witchy.

One might equate it to the driving force in the Harry Potter films of "Purebloods" and "Muggles" though they tend to forget about the "Squibs".



Your showing a narrow scope again. Cursing and evil eye is really common in things like Stregia. Folk traditions and many types of granny magics also recognize and use curses. Heathenism in some ways also speaks of curses when appropriate. So Pagan's being mad is a relatively narrow guage.



A BOS and a Grimoire are different though I think the difference is more to be found in ceremonial magics than common Pagan practices. What one might identify as high magics versus the low magics many pagans practice. It's like the usage of the word tome's to describe a singular volume in a larger collection of material. Some practices would refer to the Solomonic works as Grimoires (contains magical workings) yet the entire collection of works as magical tome's when refering to each individual volume, ie greater keys, lessor keys, etc.



Thats a very opinionated statement that can't be backed up. I ifreely admit a lot of early works i've read are or were like pulling teeth. It hurt to get through them as the subject was so poorly written on, the author was very much uninformed of the material being presented. It was presented in the typical your going to hell for doing this.

That and lots of it is allegorical in nature so one has to do more than just read to understand the scope and depth of the material and the people. Many groups using story or fable format to convey the meaning of ethics, reasons, usage, etc.

It's like some read the story of Iphigenia who is sacrificed to Artemis but don't get the full depths of it. Pride, vanity, revenge are surface aspects of it but the deeper positions of women in the society are not so easy to grasp. yet the story is dry in many ways, especially given that the outcome changes somewhat depending upon who is telling it and when.



Part of the problem here though is that much of what is recorded is actually urban legend. And like urban legends of today much of it has no root in truth or realility, simply stories made up. It's the Crybaby bridge of its day.

It's like the nursery rhyme "Ring around the Rosies" many teach it to their children but the actuall rhyme simply serves to recall and understand the black plague period. A ring that was formed around a red wound. Pockets full of possies to hide or mask the stench of death. Ashes, ashes we all fall down about the burning of bodies and how all would eventually fall down.

Over the years I've spoken to many practioners that had a list of books or volumes they had to read for thier particular practices. Seldom did you find more than one or two that acutally crossed over.

Heathens reading the eddas and saga's but seldom reading the material from the mediterrian basin. Gilgamesh on some lists but not others. Yet each driven and suggested to enhance and guide particular pathways. Sort of like the Volsung saga, two versions known of it with two different hero sets yet the story is the same.



Here you appear to be speaking about the difference between curses, hexes, evil eye, etc. Curses are not just a one size scenario but are broken down into levels and degree's.



I do think you've got the Wiccan notion of rule of three messed up with the shake and bake version of it. Most traditional Wiccans I knew would tell you it meant that every action would come back upon you in up to three ways, physcially, emotionally or spiritually, or any combo of those three. It was never about something coming back x three in strength.

For instance you steal something. The return is potentially to go to jail when caught which is physical. The mental anguish upon self if you have any morale or ethical values. the spiritual tarnishing of having your beliefs and practices inpaired as the other two influences cause you hardship and loss of ability to do things.

On your first comment: True, but there still out there.

On your second comment:I don't know anything about animal husbandry or Hedgewitch path, though I'm learning, but what I meant was that the chickens aren't tortured in any way and the animal people still made a big deal. Those wonderful people had to go to court to fight for their right to sacrifice animals as part of their religion.

On your third comment: Actually the gentleman knows a great deal about the Cornish path and about the history of the land of Cornwall. Also I know that you can be born into it and he wasn't coming along as someone that thought he was better than everyone else. I like what he has to say including about Sea Witchery and Weather Witchery.

On your forth comment: That sucks, even the Weasley's practiced this form of bigotry, believing that they were better than everyone else because they had magic. The whole book series was a ball of hatred, bigotry, and just plain nonsense. While Rowling was a good author she made Harry out as though what happened to him didn't change him, turn him into a violent child or someone that had mental problems.

On your fifth comment: Just telling you what I experienced.

On your sixth comment: The gentlemen said that Gardner had called it the Wiccans Grimoire before retracting it and just saying that it was a Wiccans Book of Shadows. He said that it had everything to do with Hitler, which I think that I might of pointed out, and that Gardner didn't want anything to do with scum like that. Personally Hitler was very big on the Occult and I find it not hard to believe that he would have several prized volumes. Where they are, no one knows.

On your seventh and eighth comment: The book that I'm reading doesn't have any of that, it's just a collection of folklore and its connection to witches. Not the whole 'if you do this then your going to hell.'

On your ninth comment: I haven't read that one, thanks for telling me.

On your tenth comment: I'm checking out a book about Urban legends. I'm really interested in knowing how the whole gators in the sewer system got started.

On your eleventh comment: I've actually done the ring around the rosie rhyme and, at the time, I didn't know that it was about the Black Death. Though now I know.

On your twelfth comment: I didn't know that, thanks for telling me.

On your thirteenth comment: I've read them and I can understand the pride that Heathens feel. I was very happy to get a chance to read them.

On your forteenth comment: Someone told me as much. Of course some witches, like Laura Cabot, is clearly against the Evil Eye. I've done the evil eye, without realizing it, before. It does work and not because I believe that it did. Of course I might be wrong there.

On your fifteenth comment: I didn't know that. All the books on Wicca that I've read never mentioned that. It clearly stated that it comes back to you three times as strong. I'll write down what you said about that in my book.

On your last comment: I've not experienced that, though I might of gotten what you said wrong.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Sekhmet Soul30 wrote: On your second comment:I don't know anything about animal husbandry or Hedgewitch path, though I'm learning, but what I meant was that the chickens aren't tortured in any way and the animal people still made a big deal. Those wonderful people had to go to court to fight for their right to sacrifice animals as part of their religion.


Animal Husbandry is part of it but I think many times lost to the new age influnce of "Healing" being the role of shamanic practioners.

Animal sacrifice is still a touchy subject for many. I have no problem with the actual practice just as long as its done with honor and reverence for the creature.


On your third comment: Actually the gentleman knows a great deal about the Cornish path and about the history of the land of Cornwall. Also I know that you can be born into it and he wasn't coming along as someone that thought he was better than everyone else. I like what he has to say including about Sea Witchery and Weather Witchery.


Many are born within it or from it but I know of no line that claims they were born of it. That's one of those sticking issues for many trads and such.

Sea witchery (green & brown water) is another really broad subject. It's like the widow walk ladies of the Northeast US and the spells and weather magics they practiced. Greatly different than say what was done over the great lakes or blue water sailors.

For the record green water is usually coastal in nature, brown water is usually rivers and inland lakes and waterways, blue water the deep oceans. I spent 23 years in the Navy so have seen some of that on all types.

But yes, to whistle up a storm now that's a horse of a different color.

Weather magics come in a great many forms as well. Everything form the typical rain dance.

(will finsh up when I get back have to run over mountains to get niece)

edited to add link:

Here's a link where we discussed the topic of sea magics

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=222334&highlight=ocean+witchcraft

[lightdragon]

(will finsh up when I get back have to run over mountains to get niece)
i can hardly wait. this is very interesting.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Sekhmet Soul30 wrote: .. On your forth comment: That sucks, even the Weasley's practiced this form of bigotry, believing that they were better than everyone else because they had magic. The whole book series was a ball of hatred, bigotry, and just plain nonsense. While Rowling was a good author she made Harry out as though what happened to him didn't change him, turn him into a violent child or someone that had mental problems.

The sad part is that it is a position one see's in a lot of pagan type forums. Especially the usage of the word "Muggle" in a negative that is almost equal to the "Mundane" caveot that was going for a bit.


On your fifth comment: Just telling you what I experienced.

Oh I understand or understood that. It's just that many today base thier positions upon what they encounter on the net. From my perspective the net is seldom a true reflection of what is said in practice. Actuality wise I;m not even sure the various gatherings are any more a truthful representation either. To much showmanship going on at those as many try to show they are witchier than another.


On your sixth comment: The gentlemen said that Gardner had called it the Wiccans Grimoire before retracting it and just saying that it was a Wiccans Book of Shadows. He said that it had everything to do with Hitler, which I think that I might of pointed out, and that Gardner didn't want anything to do with scum like that. Personally Hitler was very big on the Occult and I find it not hard to believe that he would have several prized volumes. Where they are, no one knows.


I trully do not know enough to make a statement on that one. I do belive though that given the amount of ceremonial influences on what I have seen in Wicca that it is logical that he would call it a grimoire initially.

Hitler himself was not so much into the occult as was Gerbles I think it was. Yet the whole Nazi movement was heavily influenced by it.


On your ninth comment: I haven't read that one, thanks for telling me.

The story of Iphigenia and her sacrifice is pretty well known. It's a Greek story that impacts upon the Trojan War, the sailing of the Greek Fleet, even the saving of an artifact and its eventual movement to both Athens and Sparta. Even the association of the Bear Maidens to Artemis' sanctuary.


On your eleventh comment: I've actually done the ring around the rosie rhyme and, at the time, I didn't know that it was about the Black Death. Though now I know.

The association to the black death is one speculation on it. Other's link it to a later plague period that hit London. I just always recall the plague part though there are a number of stories about its origin as well.


On your thirteenth comment: I've read them and I can understand the pride that Heathens feel. I was very happy to get a chance to read them.

It's sort of funny in so many ways. Those who follow a nordic inspired pathway almost always have to read those. Those who follow a more Celtic pathway seem to have to read the invasion saga's of Ireland. Occasionally one hears of those and other national sagas when dealing with Saxon practices.

Myself I just enjoyed reading them. Granted parts of them one really has to follow a northern pathway and understand the inner-workings of the various northern / teutonic pantheons.


On your forteenth comment: Someone told me as much. Of course some witches, like Laura Cabot, is clearly against the Evil Eye. I've done the evil eye, without realizing it, before. It does work and not because I believe that it did. Of course I might be wrong there.

Ironically, it always seemed to me the most prolific believers and practioners of that were Italians (Stregia) and those of African descent who went into Santeria / Voudon and similiar pathways.

Greeks, Anatolians and to a limited degree Egyptians did curse tablets and such but nothing like the Evil Eye that was associated to Italy.


On your fifteenth comment: I didn't know that. All the books on Wicca that I've read never mentioned that. It clearly stated that it comes back to you three times as strong. I'll write down what you said about that in my book.

I truthfully think that is an issue of the innercourt / outercourt teachings in the lineaged covens and uninitiated observations. Part of the reason there is so much disparity and disunion between todays Neo-Wicca and the lineaged Wiccan traditions.


On your last comment: I've not experienced that, though I might of gotten what you said wrong.

I'm willing to bet you have. Another example that never gets looked at. You go to buy a new home. The developer has the land cleared, usually of all living things, tree's, grass, shrubs, etc, all gone. Then your home is built and if lucky a few shrubs are put in and either grass plugs or seed.

So once you move in you wonder why its so hot but do not even associate the fact that the greenery is what provides the shade and helps keep temperatures down. Yet its all removed for the new houses and such. For instance around major cities the base level of temperature has been noted as rising as more and more greenery is removed and more and more concrete and asphalt is laid.

Then you have flooding when it rains. The land is disturbed with seasonal waterways changed. Natural contours of the land no longer provide for the runoff. The natural ability of the land to absorb the moisture changed as more and more topsoil, fauna are removed which allowed for the moisture to be absorbed.

So you have your new home but everything about it causes problems. Everything up to this point simply inpacting upon the natural order. Add the influx of people, traffic conjestion, pollution (noise, chemical, atmospheric, etc) and it gets worse.

Each action returning to one upon three possible venues of influence.

Now to get back to weather witching.

You have the supposed weather witch. Yet just what is the weather witch? First and foremost its a person who seldom messes with the weather for they know the intriquiet nature of the whole system. To mess at one point means to disrupt at another.

They seldom will push a storm for it means that the entire hydro-cycle of an area is disturbed. They realize that when an area is given a chance of rain it means that X percentage of a given area will receive moisture of some sort. Yet the conditions have to be present initially to make it happen. Most also realize that to push or pull also means that a simple rain shower can become a hurricane. A gust of wind can become a tornado.

Most people who use weather magics that I have encountered use it sparringly. Then it maybe to hold off a storm but never stop it. Perhaps to try and lessen the severity of a storm by making it last longer but at a slower rate.

that and they also realize that their is creation in destruction. Fecundity of the land is renewed through flood and surge.

To be honest when I hear people speak of doing weather magics I cringe. Mostly because they have no friggin idea of what they are messing with nor the destructive potential that stands to be released.

[Micheál]

I'm talking about those outside of the Alexanderian tradition. Of course I don't know that much about that type of tradition. Those that don't think it's important to read those dusty, boring, books. The majority do and we can be thankful.
I mentioned Alexandrian to b specific to Ireland, as that's the big community here due to the Farrar line, but the Alexandrian&Gardnerian Traditions are Traditional Wicca. Before these terms were coined at a later stage, they were both considered the same Witchcraft Tradition(and we've bee told that Alex Sanders was technically considered Gardnerian until 1969) Then later on in the States someone coined the "British Traditional," label that someone sets the traditional aside from those that want to read one book and declare themselves as Wiccans, later stemming from the Goddess&New Age movements and all of that.

This is where we run into problems in the pagan community. Among Traditional covens, much study is required, and you have coven members who are professional Folklorists, Archeologists, or have degrees in Ancient History, Civilisations, e.t.c. If you try applying to a Traditional coven having read a list of "fluffy books", you're going to be told that they're crap, and be given a list of recommended ones. Therefore it's times like these that I wish those that contribute to Wicca's fluffy stereotype(which is ironic being that actual Traditional Wiccans had little to do with it) would call themselves something else.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Oh that's bad you should never give a retired sailor an opening like that. Gas, Mind & pressure to many possibilites opening on that one.:bigredgri And they say a man's brain moves about the body he he he :smileroll

Yeah and going to the bathroom due to spicy foods (moaning here in pain).

[Sekhmet Soul30]

The sad part is that it is a position one see's in a lot of pagan type forums. Especially the usage of the word "Muggle" in a negative that is almost equal to the "Mundane" caveot that was going for a bit.



Oh I understand or understood that. It's just that many today base thier positions upon what they encounter on the net. From my perspective the net is seldom a true reflection of what is said in practice. Actuality wise I;m not even sure the various gatherings are any more a truthful representation either. To much showmanship going on at those as many try to show they are witchier than another.

(I personally believe that people should base what they said on what they've personally experience and not on something that they get off the web. One website can lie about something and someone out there believes it and reprints it and before long it's on hundreds of websites and soon everyone believes it. Personally I think that's just plain wrong.)

I trully do not know enough to make a statement on that one. I do belive though that given the amount of ceremonial influences on what I have seen in Wicca that it is logical that he would call it a grimoire initially.

Hitler himself was not so much into the occult as was Gerbles I think it was. Yet the whole Nazi movement was heavily influenced by it.

(I know that Hitler was believed to be head of that one society that wanted some energy source so that the Nazi's could become stronger. I know the name but I can't spell it. I know that Gerbles was heavily involved in the occult but where are the works that they amassed, no one knows.)

The story of Iphigenia and her sacrifice is pretty well known. It's a Greek story that impacts upon the Trojan War, the sailing of the Greek Fleet, even the saving of an artifact and its eventual movement to both Athens and Sparta. Even the association of the Bear Maidens to Artemis' sanctuary.

(I need to remind my self to buy that book.)

The association to the black death is one speculation on it. Other's link it to a later plague period that hit London. I just always recall the plague part though there are a number of stories about its origin as well.



It's sort of funny in so many ways. Those who follow a nordic inspired pathway almost always have to read those. Those who follow a more Celtic pathway seem to have to read the invasion saga's of Ireland. Occasionally one hears of those and other national sagas when dealing with Saxon practices.

Myself I just enjoyed reading them. Granted parts of them one really has to follow a northern pathway and understand the inner-workings of the various northern / teutonic pantheons.



Ironically, it always seemed to me the most prolific believers and practioners of that were Italians (Stregia) and those of African descent who went into Santeria / Voudon and similiar pathways.

Greeks, Anatolians and to a limited degree Egyptians did curse tablets and such but nothing like the Evil Eye that was associated to Italy.

(I know that archeologist found curse tablets I believe to Hecate, though I might be wrong. I know some author wrote about Hecate and the bad part is that I have her book but I can't remember her name)

I truthfully think that is an issue of the innercourt / outercourt teachings in the lineaged covens and uninitiated observations. Part of the reason there is so much disparity and disunion between todays Neo-Wicca and the lineaged Wiccan traditions.

(I didn't know that, thanks for telling me.)

I'm willing to bet you have. Another example that never gets looked at. You go to buy a new home. The developer has the land cleared, usually of all living things, tree's, grass, shrubs, etc, all gone. Then your home is built and if lucky a few shrubs are put in and either grass plugs or seed.

So once you move in you wonder why its so hot but do not even associate the fact that the greenery is what provides the shade and helps keep temperatures down. Yet its all removed for the new houses and such. For instance around major cities the base level of temperature has been noted as rising as more and more greenery is removed and more and more concrete and asphalt is laid.

Then you have flooding when it rains. The land is disturbed with seasonal waterways changed. Natural contours of the land no longer provide for the runoff. The natural ability of the land to absorb the moisture changed as more and more topsoil, fauna are removed which allowed for the moisture to be absorbed.

So you have your new home but everything about it causes problems. Everything up to this point simply inpacting upon the natural order. Add the influx of people, traffic conjestion, pollution (noise, chemical, atmospheric, etc) and it gets worse.

Each action returning to one upon three possible venues of influence.

Now to get back to weather witching.

You have the supposed weather witch. Yet just what is the weather witch? First and foremost its a person who seldom messes with the weather for they know the intriquiet nature of the whole system. To mess at one point means to disrupt at another.

They seldom will push a storm for it means that the entire hydro-cycle of an area is disturbed. They realize that when an area is given a chance of rain it means that X percentage of a given area will receive moisture of some sort. Yet the conditions have to be present initially to make it happen. Most also realize that to push or pull also means that a simple rain shower can become a hurricane. A gust of wind can become a tornado.

Most people who use weather magics that I have encountered use it sparringly. Then it maybe to hold off a storm but never stop it. Perhaps to try and lessen the severity of a storm by making it last longer but at a slower rate.

that and they also realize that their is creation in destruction. Fecundity of the land is renewed through flood and surge.

To be honest when I hear people speak of doing weather magics I cringe. Mostly because they have no friggin idea of what they are messing with nor the destructive potential that stands to be released.

(Well he did mention that it was a lost art, weather witching, though not forgotten.)

Oh for those that might be confused () represents my answers. I can't get the sections of the original message to go all gray. If someone could help me in doing that then I would be grateful.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

There is a PDF book file to be found on www.scribd.com (http://www.scribd.com) that is titled: Curse Tablets and Binding Spells From the Ancient World. I have not read all of it but the parts I glanced over seemed pretty good. Something that might be of interest if nothing else.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Sekhmet Soul30 wrote: I personally believe that people should base what they said on what they've personally experience and not on something that they get off the web. One website can lie about something and someone out there believes it and reprints it and before long it's on hundreds of websites and soon everyone believes it. Personally I think that's just plain wrong

I don't totaly rule out the web and its influence, yet I don't open arm embrace it either. Especially given that for the most part one can never tell if it's real or made up with regard to what others are saying.

The cut and paste stuff is really bad though. I recall when every site on the web had the cut and paste statement about the "Burning Times". Though I do have to admit sometimes you could tell right off the depth of ones knowledge by the rubber stamp statements they had.


I know that Hitler was believed to be head of that one society that wanted some energy source so that the Nazi's could become stronger. I know the name but I can't spell it. I know that Gerbles was heavily involved in the occult but where are the works that they amassed, no one knows.

Historically Hitler was the head of many things but never actually worked in it. It's a poor comparrison but think of Nancy Reagon bringing in astrologers into the White House to check on Ronalds star's and such. Here's the President of the United States as head but not really the force behind it.

But I do agree that there was supposedly a lot of things found that we have no idea of where it is today. Though if gut instinct is anything I'd say the allied governments procured a lot of it and now it lies in vaults. I vaguely recall the Russians had a remote viewing thing going on that was loosely based on some German information during the Cold War.


I need to remind my self to buy that book

That story is on-line in many formats and free.


I know that archeologist found curse tablets I believe to Hecate, though I might be wrong. I know some author wrote about Hecate and the bad part is that I have her book but I can't remember her name.

Hekate is the most well known example but not the only one. I've read of accounts of Artemis of Ephesos and curse tablets. It seem's from what I recall that a number of gods / goddesss were actually associated with cursing tablets.


Well he did mention that it was a lost art, weather witching, though not forgotten.

I can believe that. Especially given the "I want it now!" type mentatility that prevails in so much public paganism. Based upon my own experience I know it used to take years to perfect ones craft. Perfection based upon long term dedication and commitment and lots of training.

[sunnydawn]

Okay I want to know something. Why is it that the 1% of witches, or Wiccans (I know that some Wiccans call themselves witches), don't read witch lore of folk lore. People many years ago collected this information so that people could read about it and it wouldn't get lost. So why don't they want to read it? I know that the books are dry but wouldn't it help them understand more about the roots of what they do.

Let me know as I did a blog on Witch School International that talked about Witch Balls and how they were popular in the 18th century and how even one web site, e-How, sighted that the practice was 600 years old. I'm going with the 18th century one because it was on a website that was run by glass blowers that make the witch balls so I think that they would know about it more than anyone as it's part of their history.

Let me know what you think and please answer my question.

I'm just going to assume that the 1%, (where ever you got that figure from) could be poser wannabe's that just want to freak people out by calling themselves witches.
However your finds don't paint an entire picture.

I don't consider myself a witch. but I have read a bit from a few books and just applied my own thoughts into what I believe. I don't have the time for concentration on doing anything hands on but i don't think thats a bad thing either. How many people have to let in negative energy and/or shadows unintentionally.