Dangers of Shapeshifting

[teopiltzin]

I have recently been experimenting with traditional nagualist and shamanic shapeshifting techniques with much success. I could, through much effort and extended concentration, feel my physical body and mind shift into a Wolf's physical body and mind. My interest in this line of work began when I started spontaneously changing into a Wolf in my dreams. As these dreams became more lucid and more frequent, however, I began running into problems. My attitude began to change. I began to lose control of my rational mind and would sink into the freedom of being a wild dog and began to roam the earth with a more war-like and hunter mentality but through intuition.

This felt quite ecstatic and exhilirating the first few times, but as time went by, and began to get into more and more trouble. I began to enter other people's dreams and began growling and howling at them, with the intention to attack them. On some occasions I have attacked and hunted animals, particularly as a pack. Then we would feed. It tasted so disgusting! It gave me nausea upon wakening and I threw up. My behavior in the real world has been change also. I retain the attitude and posture of a Wolf, the same sensitivities, the same attitude towards family and clan, responsibility to the community, among other attributes. There are many good things. But I don't want things to get out of hands.

I've heard stories second hand about villagers in Mexico and Guatemala being scared of the old legends about nagual sorcerer which were able to transform themselves into their animal counterparts at night to do evil. Should I be scared for the safety of the world's dreams-space? How do I learn to control it?

Yours in the struggle,
--Teopiltzin

[Symandinome]

This is a very interesting topic.

It is apparent through your post that you are aware of these things manifesting themself into your daily life so thats is a good sign. The fact that you can recognize these things would tell me that since you can recognize them you should be able to control them.

When you feel these things occuring WILL IT TO STOP. Its as simple as that. Same thing applies for you in your dreams. You are always in control. Just because you take on characteristics of the animal doesnt mean that you are no longer you. If this was the case you would have no recollection of them.

You are always in control. You are just seeing through the wolf's eyes and using the wolfs senses and intuitions. You have to take control of yourself and the situation. This is the case for both you in your dreams and you in real life.

If you are unable or unwilling to accept this then you are not ready to be undertking such things. If this is the case you should stop putting into practice what you are learning about. Study more and develop yourself and your abilities to control yourself before you pursue such endeavors anymore.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Symandinome wrote: .. It is apparent through your post that you are aware of these things manifesting themself into your daily life so thats is a good sign. The fact that you can recognize these things would tell me that since you can recognize them you should be able to control them.

I agree. It is a matter of controlling of the self and the will.


When you feel these things occuring WILL IT TO STOP. Its as simple as that. Same thing applies for you in your dreams. You are always in control. Just because you take on characteristics of the animal doesnt mean that you are no longer you. If this was the case you would have no recollection of them.

That is not entirely true. There are depths to Shape-Shifting where one trully looses all humanity and human realtions and becomes the creature they shift to. Granted it seldom occurs upon the material plain though it may occur upon other plains of existence. Yet usually that is filtered back into the human psychie through dreams and flash cross-overs from my experience. Especially so when the lesson is not about understanding the human psychie but that of the animal.


You are always in control. You are just seeing through the wolf's eyes and using the wolfs senses and intuitions. You have to take control of yourself and the situation. This is the case for both you in your dreams and you in real life.

Again not competely true to my teacings and experience. I an if the wolf clan and danced into the tribe. Yet many memories of it are almost subliminal and touch upon the primordial facet of self where we are animal not human.

Many times in journey work the human mind can not comprehend the places one is at and it takes the mind of some creature to survive there and learn the lessons. It becomes instinct to survive and no you are not in control of it.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

teopiltzin wrote: I have recently been experimenting with traditional nagualist and shamanic shapeshifting techniques with much success.

My knowledge of Nagualist practice is limited so perhaps you'd expound on it. I'll explain a bit more further in.


I could, through much effort and extended concentration, feel my physical body and mind shift into a Wolf's physical body and mind.

There is much missing here. For instance what procedure are you using to prepare the mind for shape-shifting? Some use psycotropic druges, some use beat and drumming, some use sensory deprivation, some use fasting, others use sensory overload. So the means and manner makes quite a bit of difference in discussion.

My self I tend to use sensory deprivation, meditation with beat and drumming occasionally fasting.


My interest in this line of work began when I started spontaneously changing into a Wolf in my dreams.

This is also applicable to shadow totem or shadow self work. You are forced to face your inner demons so to speak and become that which you hide from yourself or that which on a deeper level you fear.


As these dreams became more lucid and more frequent, however, I began running into problems. My attitude began to change. I began to lose control of my rational mind and would sink into the freedom of being a wild dog and began to roam the earth with a more war-like and hunter mentality but through intuition.

That to me sounds like failure of facing ones inner shadow. You become that which you fear for it is not faced and incorporated for its strengths and benefits of the greater whole.

I have faced wolf and was ripped to shreds to be reborn into its medicine. yes it let me run with the pact but even then I was always the lone wolf for I failed to realize the strength and purpose of the pack. It was only when I faced and trully intergrated did I become more than the wild dog.

BUt the other thing is that not all things that touch us in dream time are there for our benefit.


This felt quite ecstatic and exhilirating the first few times, but as time went by, and began to get into more and more trouble. I began to enter other people's dreams and began growling and howling at them, with the intention to attack them.

That to me also reads of failure to intergrate. If you are trully entering others dream time events then you've crossed over into dream walking which is a danger in itself. The ego and false sense of pride and superiority tends to trap and destroy the walker as the ego grows.


On some occasions I have attacked and hunted animals, particularly as a pack. Then we would feed. It tasted so disgusting! It gave me nausea upon wakening and I threw up.

That ot me again speaks of shadow work not shape-shifting.


My behavior in the real world has been change also. I retain the attitude and posture of a Wolf, the same sensitivities, the same attitude towards family and clan, responsibility to the community, among other attributes. There are many good things. But I don't want things to get out of hands.

That is part of the medicine of the wolf. Yet it also to me reminds me of a dreamer that has not allowed the spirit self to settle back in. I know for me when I shape-shift in dream time or upon journey work I will still feed the senses of the creature for hours afterwards as the human psychie and spirit psychie remeld and become one again. Yet until reformed you have to take control over your will power and self to control the thoughs and influences that have not fully released.


I've heard stories second hand about villagers in Mexico and Guatemala being scared of the old legends about nagual sorcerer which were able to transform themselves into their animal counterparts at night to do evil. Should I be scared for the safety of the world's dreams-space? How do I learn to control it?

Control over your ego, will power and self. Your ego is what promps you to think your better or more dangerious, etc, self is the force of presence that allows you to step away and give away control over your body, will power is what allows you to take control and sever the cords and influences of ego and self when you go off on an ego trip.

Failure to hold any facet and the whole house will collapse, not initially but as one grows beyond the ability to control self.

[teopiltzin]

The way I turn into the wolf in my waking consciousness is quite simple, but there are a few thing I have to do. First, I smoke cannabis. This lets me enter the first stage of my altered state of consciousness. I've been smoking it for a while, so I could control it quite well. Before this time, I of course find an appropriate day to work in the sacred Cholq'ij calendar to find the best energy suitable for the task at hand. I then sit on my straw mat in my temple, I light a candle, then I start drumming (always at night of course). I first intone a few power sings to Tepeyollotl, aztec lord of the animals. I do this for about an hour until I feel a direct connection with the deity. I see him in a cave somewhere in the darkness of the astral plane. Once I feel that the connection is deeply impressed upon my mind, I begin my journey to my place in nature, which is a small river I use to go to in order to do certain rituals.

I then whistle my Wolf power song and he runs to me. Usually he is always close by. I first consult him and ask him question to verify that he is indeed Wolf and not some imposter. Once this is verified, we begin to slowly exchange energy in the form of blue smoke ejected out of our mouths and sent through the air. We could use this to influence each other, to make us more alike, to exchange what the Mexica called ihiyotl, which comes from the liver. Then I mount it. I hold it between my arms and begin to wrestle with it, holding it tightly until we begin to fuse. At this time, my mind begins to wander. I begin to become lost. But I hold tightly. Soon I begin to feel a distinct but controllable terror and ecstasy at the same time. I could feel teeth begin to sharpen. I could feel my tongue elongate, my breath becomes louder, my heartbeat becomes faster. In dreams I could experience this and see myself at the same time, which gave me some measure of control. But when I fuse during a journey, I cannot see myself so the only way to get out of it is to end the journey abruptly.

Wolf is my guardian spirit and nagual, and it will never leave me, and I will never leave it. What I still don't know is it's a particular animal that's with me or the spirit of the entire species--but most shamans would say the latter. I could stay in this state for so time, maybe hours at a time until I feel that my work is complete. I go on many adventures and meet and converse with many beings in this form. They tend to trust me more than if I were purely human, but I don't know if they could detect that i'm human or even alive (in the organic sense, at least).

I thank you all for your responses which were very informative to say the least. I hope we could continue this discussion until we come to a deeper understanding of the dangers and advantages of shapeshifting.

Yours in the struggle,
--Teopiltzin

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Man that really sounds like a totem guide. From my perspective its not at all unusal to merge and become one with them. Sometimes to be the fore mind and control the body other times to be a backmind and realize you are along for the ride but still experience the whole of the situation from the guides perspective.

Wolf is one of my guides and keeper of the ring that I must pass through to journey. Each time I am approached and tested by her to see if I am ready to take the journey. If allowed I seem to become one with her. I say seem to become for most times I am aware of the sense of wolf but no longer see her though I feel with her.

If I am denied then I am pushed to some other place or spot. At times to another guide to prepare me for the journey to take place. Then that guide will come with me to wolf as if to explain and then wolf will let me pass or deny it.

Wolf is always associated as the guardian to the celestial / cthonic and Material worlds. The only time that she does not appear is when Dragon is to be my guide and guardian though it is never the tree upon which she takes me.

[Ravenari]

There are a lot of dangers - imho - with some of the practices in shamanism. And certainly in shapeshifting.

You mention you've only really recently begun this shapeshifting. Sometimes, with new skills, there are short-term consequences that come with learning something 'the hard way.' A spiritual artist cannot learn how to truly communicate with the spirits and totems s/he creates, without failing a few illustrations. And sometimes, with very true shapeshifting, one will not always have full control of the will until that control is learned 'the hard way.' Sometimes these things only come from experience, and it is experience that you are gaining.

I think it is positive, so far, that you are growling and howling, but not actively attacking anyone in their dreams (despite describing the sensation of wanting to - which suggests, even at this point, you are exercising some self-control). Self-control is something learned, and you have to apply yourself to it with as much - if not more - self-discipline than learning to shapeshift in the first place. If you begin to attack people, other spirits may take action against you (wolf might be all for what you're doing; that doesn't mean everything is), and if you attack spiritual people with the tools and knowledge, they may try and stop you from being able to shift and come near them again. So - self-discipline is important.

There are rather drastic measure to stop yourself from shapeshifting in your dreams; but these would generally stop the shapeshifting entirely, and restrict you from some of the more exciting or pleasurable experiences. These measures also wouldn't teach you the self-discipline you so seriously need.

I would suggest that you practice shapeshifting without the assistance of cannabis or dreamstates, as this is a good way of starting to learn some serious self-discipline over the shifting process. It can make things a lot more challenging; but it's worth doing just as an exercise of self-mastery.

[Umbress]

I tend to agree with the suggestion that you try this without the cannabis to see if you have more insight into your behavior and desires while traveling as a wolf. There are usually reasons for our actions and desires that are not all that other worldly. We as conscious beings exist in many planes therefore all planes are connected by our consciousness.

A personal example is I frequently fly in my journeying. I choose this mode because my desire to see things from above. I want to to know all aspects of the path, possible obstructions , I want to know the past present and future.

Flying is also a part of my tendency to avoid grounding. When I get off kilter that is normally the culprit failure to ground properly.

Wolves are pack animals that hunt as a group. The desire to attack can be a form of hunger, empowerment, or self defense. Only you know why but you first have to know where to look and it is not necessarily in the metaphysical - Often the things that stump us are in the mundane of every day life in the physical existence.

So look for reasons behind your actions and thoughts that may be along the lines of seriously mundane for spirit resides here as well.