ok...people....I need your help

[Sabrina]

Greetings everyone:

As you know I am an artist. I make my living and raise three kids doing my artwork.
Now normally I do pen and ink- but that doesn't mean I cannot paint - I can. I've just come to the conclusion that there are fantastic artists out there that paint....so I should keep to my own niche.

Here's my delima:
Last fall a store hired me to paint a sign for them. There was mass confusion over the sign (size, how, fonts, etc) for weeks and weeks. I had trouble reaching the store owner via the phone...
but we finally agreed upon the design. I sent a sketch via email and they responded that they loved it and wished only to add a few things...
(trying to make a long story short here - sorry)

Anyway - as they continued to make changes (one of which was to change the sign from being a ONE SIDED SIGN to a TWO SIDED SIGN...etc) but - the price increased....
and not really from me - but from the sign company making the end result sign.

So....the last time I spoke with them - they said the sign had gone out of their expectations and the deal was null and void.

Ok...we're out of your price range - I can understand that - right?

But----folks----- they NEVER paid me ANYTHING for the painting that I did for them that was to be their SIGN!

When the deal was "over" - I mentioned that they still needed to PAY ME for the work that I had already put into...

but no....they have completely blown me off...and have been rather rude about it too I might say.
I do not wish to sue my fellow brothers and sisters....but they owe me money and they know it.

This is so hard on me....being stressed out about the decision. I thought I'd ask some other opinions.

Oh...and NO ...since this is a store (And I thought friends) that sells my prints - I did not send them a written contract in the beginning. MY lawyer says that we've enough evidence that I was in fact "hired" by all the emails and records of phone calls etc.

I've placed a JPG here of the painting that I entited "Sophia" for your review. The painting is aprox 3' x 4' and isnt exactly small!

"Sophia" goes with me this Tuesday to Denver to her new home where she will decorate a large wall in a new Pagan coffee shop on Colfax Ave in Denver called: "Oh My Goddess" I'm going there for two weeks to paint murals on their walls and taking Sophia as a treasure to add to the feel and witchiness of the building --
for alas ((( sigh )))) "Sophia" has no home!

What do you guys think???
Do I sue these people? Arent Wiccans supposed to be more "enlightened"? And behave in a more loving fashion???
((sigh)) I know (shaking head) I'm an idiot...I just hate having to sue someone! ((ugh))
thanks

[Autumn Wolf]

Merry Meet, Sabrina. Sophia is beautiful!!!!! And, gods yes, you should sue!!! You did a job, you should get paid for that. You know, if you just let them know that you're willing to take it to that level, they may just pay you, just to keep from adding court costs to what they'll owe! Good luck, Sabrina. You deserve it. Brightest Blessing, Autumn Wolf

[Ice Phoenix]

Well they owe you money,

If they refuse to pay you, then you have one of two choices

First forget about it and not get paid
Two sue them - chances are when they realise you're serious they'll setlle and pay up if not then i am afraid it will need to go to court for evidence etc etc

It depends how bad you want the money, because court fees will be expensive too

edite to add: and yes i think sophia is beautiful too!

[WitchyMomma]

You do beautiful work! :)

I do have one thought on your situation. If you sue the original buyer of the painting I don't think you would be allowed to give/sell the painting to a third party. You would have to hold on to the painting until after the court business is over.

This is something you should speak to your attorney about. If you have a new buyer for your painting then he/she (attorney) may just tell you to sell to the new buyer and make sure you get a contract with the original buyer in the future if you decide to do business with them again.

I just wanted to share that thought. I'd hate to see the situation get worse if my first paragraph holds true.

Good luck.

[Blueowl]

Sabrina! That is beautiful....and it looks like there was alot of work that went into it. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I say, as long as it doesn't cost more than what they owe you to sue them and get paid, go for it! Youa re owed what you are owed...I really dislike people that do that...it is bad karma....:smoke:

[Ahautenites]

There may also be the possibility of small claims court. Then you wouldn't need to pay a lawyer.

Whatever you do, keep written documents of everything (and you may even want to get them notarized). Even when I had my own website (and had it maintained by my dearest friends) I still had contracts with them (in e-mail, but still, they *were* contracts).

[Old Witch]

To tell you the truth, you might be in court for a long time.........cut your losses and leave, and take with you a life lesson.........Get everything in writing.

"Sophia" is beautiful......your career is gonna be great anyhow!!

[Lacykitten]

Beautiful. I know how much work a big painting like that can be - you should definately get your money for doing it.

It was a comission, whether they used it or not, and you did the work to THEIR specifications. They should not be allowed to back out of a deal.

Personally I think whatever you do, you should not promote their store anymore. Maybe I'm being a bit bitter in my thinking.. but if it was me and these people pulled this BS, I would pull all my products from them and make sure to tell friends and family what they did to me. I know that if a store here pulled that on people I knew, most of the friends would stop using the store. It's NOT right to do that, PERIOD, and they should lose something for being jerks.

I'm firmly believing you should get paid though, whether they keep it or not. You should find out if you can sue or go to small claims or whatever, and still have the painting find a new home if they don't want it after they pay for it (as I'm positive taking it to a court would result in payment for ya)... I mean if they are forced to pay for it they might decide to keep it anyway - so that's something you'd need to consider.

I say.. get the money and cut your ties with these people. Obviously they are not good outstanding members of society if they are willing to give you the shaft when you've done all this work for them. But if it comes to it, cut your losses and sell the painting to someone else: she's beautiful, she'd have no trouble finding a new home. :)

[PeleRising]

Sophia is just gorgeous... but i agree with witchymomma... if you originally did the piece for that store and you are now asking to be paid for said piece then you probably should hold off selling it until your business is settled with the first company.

You have a bright future ahead of you ... again Sophia is wonderful!

[kblackthorne]

Yes, they owe you money.

No, Wiccans are not required to be doormats. Being "enlightened" doesn't mean failing to hold others responsible for their actions. (Remind yourself that as often as you need to hear it.)

I have discovered that actually taking the steps to take someone to court will often "miraculously" inspire them to pay what they owe.

If the agreed-on price for the painting was less than $5,000, your case is for small-claims court.

The first step with Small Claims is two mailed, written requests for payment. Since these requests (in and of themselves) are likely to be considered "evidence", you want to be very precise in your wording of them.

("On January 1, 2000, you comissioned the painting "Sophia" from me for use in a sign. We agreed that the painting would incorporate X elements, and that you would pay me $Y. Although I delivered the painting to you on April 1, 2000, I have yet to receive any portion of the agreed-upon payment from you, despite X number of verbal requests from me on [any dates that you happen to know]. Please consider this letter to be formal request for the entire amount owed. I am sure that neither of us wish the inconvenience of going to Small Claims Court, so please contact me so that we may resolve the matter quickly." The second notice should mention that you've gotten no response to the first written request (and mention the date the request was sent).)

I have prepared such letters on a couple occasions -- most recently when a landlord decided to return only $65.00 of my $750 deposit money. Like you, I had gone through all sorts of verbal wrangling with them on the phone, and they refused to pay what they owed. We had been counting on that money when moved into the new place, so I couldn't just abandon it -- things were really tight. Immediately after I wrote the second letter, I received a check for the full amount of the deposit.

But by writing the letter, sticking it in an envelope, and mailing it, you're showing that you're serious. And by mentioning court, you're showing how serious. You're obviously not just going to go away.

It's possible that one reason they haven't paid is they simply don't have the money. (This would not surprise me, given the way they negotiated the sign... not really seeming to be aware of the costs, then cancelling the entire project, rather than cutting back. It speaks of poor financial management.) In this case, you may want to offer payment arrangements -- but be sure to get it in writing!

[Rævyn Cigány]

Sophia is stunning, Sabrina, truly stunning, and I agree with Katherine. For something that, obviously, you have put your heart and soul into, it is not right for you to have to 'cut your losses'. Fight for that which you KNOW you are owed, and much luck to you, my friend.

B*B

Rae )O(

[SerenityMoon]

beautiful painting..simply enchanting.
two very hard choices here: cut your losses and learn from it, or fight for your right to your money...It really depends on what kind of a person you are, and how strongly you believe you were wronged. I personally believe you were, and I would fight, but that's me.

[Sabrina]

Greetings:

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read and respond to this posting.
Special thanks to Katherine - I copy and pasted that letter you included for usage - the wording is excellent.

I agree that to contact them via real MAIL might just prove to them that I am serious...up until this point they can either ignor my calls OR repond via nasty email...Real MAIL might just do the trick. I'll have to find out more data about small claims court.
SOmeone also mentioned to me that I can sue the store AND the individuals involved as well. I'm a rather typical artist and get taken advantage of at times - for I seem to lack that killer instinct.
But usually a rip-off comes from the mundane people - not fellow brothers and sisters in the Craft.

The worst part about this is NOW I have to be a hard-ass when dealing with people - Mundane and Magickal alike.
And I had such high hopes for our society since we seem to be growing in numbers (pagans) these days. ((sigh))

oh well - guess people are people.

Thanks again to everyone who helped here.
Glad you liked Sophia...I so rarely get to paint..one of the reasons I was so pleased to have the chance to DO this project in the first place.

[Garnet]

'Sophia' is just beautiful, Sabrina.
You might also consider sending your ex-friends/customers a release form of some sort so you can use Sophia some other way, or sell it to some one else. It sounds like these are the sort of people who may someday rear their ugly heads & think, 'Just because we didn't use the image, doesn't mean we want anyone else to.'
Good luck!

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by WitchyMomma

You do beautiful work! :)

I do have one thought on your situation. If you sue the original buyer of the painting I don't think you would be allowed to give/sell the painting to a third party. You would have to hold on to the painting until after the court business is over.

This is something you should speak to your attorney about. If you have a new buyer for your painting then he/she (attorney) may just tell you to sell to the new buyer and make sure you get a contract with the original buyer in the future if you decide to do business with them again.

I just wanted to share that thought. I'd hate to see the situation get worse if my first paragraph holds true.

Good luck.

I have to agree with this. Don't do anything with the painting until you decide whether to sue, because if you do sue and they are ordered to pay, they will reasonably expect to be given the painting. BTW, your work is awesome!

[Rubi Waters]

Originally posted by Sabrina

Greetings everyone:

As you know I am an artist. I make my living and raise three kids doing my artwork.
Do I sue these people? Arent Wiccans supposed to be more "enlightened"? And behave in a more loving fashion???
thanks

First off "sophia" is absolutly beautiful.
Secondly being wiccan doesn't mean you(& your family) have to starve. You do wonderful work and deserve to get paid for it.
I know artists usually have that laid back attitude (my boyfriend sure does) but that doesn't mean that they deserve to be taken advantage of.
Much Love & Luck in your trials.