The Pagan Body?

[Artemis84]

This may seem a little weird. It's a general Wiccan idea that the human body is a beautiful thing, hence the idea of performing some rituals skyclad. But what about pornography sites or magazines for adults? Or even child pornography!? Where do most Wiccans draw the line between Nature's creation and entertainment? Is there a line at all? Of course being me, I think porn is for perverts with nothing better to do with their time. But that's just my opinion. What about you guys?

[Mariposa De La Luna]

I know Mike Nichols has an article on it that I haven't read yet. Its at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7280/index.html

[Yvonne Belisle]

I have no problem with it as long as it is by a concenting adult. It's a job like any other. As long as they are not forced into it then it's fine. I do think that it should be kept from children and I think that it should be up to people if they want to look or not. I've never seen anyone forced to open a magazine and I think it is a matter of censorship or noncensorship. Therefor I am for it.

[eaglewolf]

:(

I think I may be a pervert... is there a help group for this?

[Xois]

eaglewolf

i am with you...

*passes out pervert buttons to those who want them*

as long as it is consenting adults

[Tigerwallah]

I'm a pervert too!!! Adults only!!!

[Artemis84]

Thanks SAHM for that article! You should read it, it's very thought provoking. Being raised in a Christian based society, I still have the thought in my head that nakedness is BAD! I don't know if I will ever lean the other way. But I will have to think about it a lot. Thanks again!

[Earth Walker]

Now that it is summertime, regular trips to Wreck Beach
in Vancouver, where I bask in the sun, swim, and expose
my Bod, knobby camel knees too. :eek:

[Ellegon]

I raise my hand...I am a pervert, too...but only with consenting adults and out of the view of the kiddies. Discretion is always the rule.

But does skyclad mean porn? I think not...ritual can not be put into that light. Even in the practice of sex-magick there is the spiritual aspect to consider. This cannot be considered as porn.

I do practice skyclad, but I am a solitary...might feel different in a coven situation...not sure about that one. hehehe

Love and Light!

Elle )0(

[Armitage]

Between finally beginning to accept pagan beliefs and being an artist, I've gotten a lot more comfortable with seeing the nude, and even the occasional porno can be funny as hell from cheese value. I don't condone anything nonconsensual or showing anything of this sort to kids, nor have I gotten the guts to even try to venture outside skyclad.

[Elaine]

*raises hand* I need one of those buttons too Xois!!

seriously though...I think you need to just realize that the human body is NOT a bad thing...they are very beautiful and should never be looked at as being BAD!! child porn is wrong for the obvious reasons!! but other stuff is done by people who decide to do and who decide to watch/look at it!! I was raised to believe that the human body is not a bad thing...that you have to respect it and take care of yourself....be proud of yourself....practicing your rituals skyclad is very different from porn (I don't know from experience...but someone correct me if I'm wrong!!) rituals performed skyclad is done by adults of a coven who are into the spirituality of it and they are not looking at the others as sexual objects during that period of time!! Solitaries who perform skyclad are also obviously into doing it that way for the spirituality of it ...porn is there for ....the obvious reasons....one would not use a pornographic magazine in a ritual because in the ritual they are going for the beauty of the body...not the sexuality of it!! I hope this made sense...I knew what I meant but didn't really know how to put it into words!!

[IsisMoon]

I agree with the consenting adults comments - and issues relating to child protection.

And I have no problem with my nudity (I too am a solitary practitioner!) And yes I've run around the house paddock in the rain under the light of the Moon!! (Lots of fun!!) :-)

But, personal preference here, I don't think I could get my gear off in a group thing (and I mean either ritually or pornographically!!)

Blessings

IsisMoon
)O(

[Mairwen]

Back in March, there was a nation-wide Christian group (I can't remember the name) which was protesting a chain of video-movie rental stores ~ because they rented and sold pornographic movies. Seeing a chance to stand up for Pagan rights, I, Dextra and a friend of ours (we tried to get other people to go, but no one else showed up~ too afraid to come out of the closet, we supposed) staged a counter-protest at the one store we could find locally where the group was having their protest.

It was a hoot! We were in the local newspaper in that town ~ with the story slanted in our favor. And we got more statewide television news coverage than the main protest group got!

Why were we there? Well, we just figured that if they could protest porn, we could protest their protest. Turns out, counter-protests are protected by the "right to peaceable assembly" ammendment, btw. When we got there, we headed directly to the police, introduced ourselves and stated our position. Our position was this: if they could band together and protest something like porn (when there was far worse on the shelves (ie, slasher movies)), then it was quite feasible they could band together and protest us, too. As well, we were there on the side of the First Ammendment ~ the freedom of speech. I told one local tv news station that while people have the right to view pornography in the privacy of their homes, pornography as a whole doesn't support a healthy sexual lifestyle, nor does it portray a realistic view of sex.

What it boils down to, we were Pagans standing up to support our rights as Pagans, the freedom of speech for everyone, and everyone's right to the pleasures of the body as they see fit (sexual orientation, etc). After all, if we don't do it ~ nobody else is going to. :D

As far as the Pagan body goes, I genrally "don't like" thin people ~ unless they happen to be petite women by genetic nature. Why? Because some (most?) thin people do harm to their bodies and psyches trying to fit into a mold that the human body was never meant to fit into. I mean, they're not healthy ~ how can they be? This doesn't mean that I don't have thin friends ~ I just don't care for how they treat themselves. Life's too short.

Myself, I'm Reubenesque, and I'm quite happy this way, though it took me a long time to come to terms with this "shape". Before I had children, I was your typical, anorexic Barbie-doll woman. *shudder* After my second and last child, I just couldn't lose the weight ~ my father's family is genetically predispositioned to being "apple shaped"; score one against me! :( However, I finally came to terms with the way I looked, and not only did my feelngs about myself change, but I lost some weight, too; now, i'm never going to be able to lose all of it (nor do I ever want to), but I love myself, and am quite comfortable in my own skin.

[Elaine]

*applause* Cleveland needs people like you Mairwen!!! We have this road in one of our (for lack of a different term) suburbs...(it's a nice neighborhood...safe and everything, but not rich...I'd describe it as comfortable living...someplace I would love to be!!:) and it's famous for it's strip clubs and movie/book stores! No one who works for or goes to these places are underage or forced to go, but still the city is in the process of buying all of the land to tear down all of the buildings to put in more hotels or some crap like that!! I find it apauling that we are told by our city governments that stuff like that is wrong...I believe that this is an infringement on my rights to purchase things of this sort! I do not visit these places (ok so I went to one of the stores once or twice) :) but why should I be told that I can't and have it taken away so that's it's not accessible if I wanted to! I could maybe understand if the businesses were new and the people in the neighborhood were complaining...but these businesses are literally older than I am...if you don't like it there...why did you move there in the first place??? !!! (my it feels so nice to FINALLY vent about that!!!) :D

[Xois]

wow Great counter-protest! You should be very proud!

Rubenesque is the way to go! ;) from one round woman, to another!

Xois

[tempest69]

You say you don't like overly thin people... but what about those of us who are, well, less than thin?

[Alphyna]

Rail, Thin, moderate, fat, obese I think all contains beauty, showing the diversity of all women of one species...The goddess comes in all forms, and celebrates all forms. It may not be pleasing to all, but there should be an appreciation of the diversity, and find the beauty there. I myself was a rail all through elementary, the names I was called! It didn't help help being a very tall child either. I was always harassed by the boys, not having a butt really helped. They always pointed out my "faults". During high school, I went to a modelling agency, and low and behold, they wanted me! My height was outstanding, especially at such a young age! They cut me deals, I was so excited! But from a low income family, I couldn't afford to pay for the photographer. So back to being normal....Then after some years go buy, I meet a wonderful young man, who I marry 8 mths later! Now the weight likes me! Especially after giving birth to my firstborn! Now I am moderate, expecting another child! I have gotten larger, Weighing in at 150+ but I love it! I know I may get bigger, and I am excited! What wonders to be able to experience different sizes! I love it! And I am surrounded by beauty every day!
Many Blessings to all during your journey of the body!
Alphyna

[Artemis84]

I apologize for my earlier comment about people who like porn being perverts. It was a generalization and I'm sorry. But from the perspective of someone who has never seen a porn mag, what is it that is so entertaining about them? Aside from the possibility of some really hot guys ( or girls ). Never mind. I think I just answered my own questions. :)

Bright Blessings!

[MystyPines]

Mairwen: ".......I told one local tv news station that while people have the right to view pornography in the privacy of their homes, pornography as a whole doesn't support a healthy sexual lifestyle, nor does it portray a realistic view of sex....."

---------------------------------------------
Merry Meet!

I have never had a problem with adult pornography and have watched porn movies and viewed magazines with my significant other(s) over the years. But, recently my outlook on porn has drastically changed having discovered back in September that my husband is a porn addict and spends 3 hours a day pulling up porn sites on the computer while satisfying himself. This was devastating when I turned the home computer on to find tons of sites in the history folders as well as over 1,000 pics stored on our computer. After confronting him with it, he said he thought it was okay with me. He promised me he would not do it again. But, in March I found that he was deleting histories on a daily basis on the computer, but I had other ways of checking the computer records and he continued to do it every day, every moment I was not home, whether it be morning, lunch hours, or right before I got home from the office. So now I have started going to therapy to overcome the insecurities he has sparked in me (having had anorexia over the recent years). So I would have to agree with Mairwen that pornography does not help support a healthy sexual lifestyle. As they say: "Everything in moderation."

Bright Blessings!

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Xois
wow Great counter-protest! You should be very proud!
Rubenesque is the way to go! ;) from one round woman, to another! Xois

*blush* Thanks! :D

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by tempest69
You say you don't like overly thin people... but what about those of us who are, well, less than thin?

Less than thin? Isn't that the same as overly thin? Anything less than a size 12 is "too thin" ~ IMHO. (and yes, I used to be one of those people ~ but I was anorexic, horribly ill, and i refuse to go there again).

Or am I misunderstanding, here? Huh?? :confused: :confused:

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by Artemis84
But from the perspective of someone who has never seen a porn mag, what is it that is so entertaining about them?

I've seen mags and movies ~ and I still can't answer your question. LOL! 8O

[MystyPines]

Maybe because the magazines have women they can't have but can fantasize about, who knows? This way, he can have a brunette one day, and a redhead the next, or in my husband's case he can just turn the page and have one after the other, he he he.

[Elaine]

I'm very sorry to hear about your husband MystyPines...I hope that things get better for you!!! My husband is into pornographic materials, but not to that extent (thank goddess!!) I think it's just like you said....too much of anything is bad!!!

Mairwen- we must keep in mind that everyone is differently sized and shaped....I have just currently dropped below a size 12 but I am in no way too thin!! I am only 5 foot tall (and am not getting any taller!!) :) so anything over a 12 and I'm getting to the point of unhealthy!! I don't disagree with people being overweight...I just worry when they get overly overweight! I am very worried about my husbands health because of his weight...we are young and I would hate to loose him early because of his weight!! You guys all saw the picture of him....(well I think most of you did anyways in the picture thread!) He is a big guy in the first place (huge bones) but on top of that he has a lot of weight in his stomach...he's over 300 lbs and it's just not healthy....imho, medium is just wonderful.....too thin is unhealthy too big is unhealthy...somewhere in between is just wonderful!! As long as we all stay healthy, I'm happy:)

[Semele]

Well, lets see here. Porn is allright for adults...just not our parents...eeeewwww!!!!!

I must admit that Mol and i have looked at our share of porn and enjoyed it for various reasons ;) Mostly it is just fun to make fun of.

Nakedness is not bad!!!! Shame on you!!! :)

If you don't wanna see a naked booty running through the house you will definately want to stay away from here. We are very free around our place. We have done some skyclad rituals in doors with my brother, Mol, and myself. It was awkeward but cool. Even after seeing each other a dozen times in the buff for fleeting moments it was kind of strange. I know many people prefer this way but I am personally more comfortable clothed.

Sex magik is also great... with someone you love. We are not into orgy-type things but we do work well together...er ... um yeah!!!

As for the weight issue...whew coming from someone currently, finally, on a diet of sorts I think I will keep my mouth shut!!! :cool:

Seriously I think all sizes have beauty. I am trying to lose some weight for health reasons. I know all too well what extra weight and cholesterol can do. Hard to work as a nurse and be untouched by this. And yet i still smoke like a freight train. Baby steps!!!

Semele

[Kiya]

Thin.......mmmm..... I eat like a horse, but I can't put weight on. Then when I get stressed, I get thinner. If anyone is having liposuction, would they mind donating their unwanted bits to me? Tee hee!

My partner likes porn... I'm not bothered, it generally makes me laugh. I love erotic, arty b&w pictures though!

I don't mind how long my darling looks at porn - all day if he wanted to - as long as he doesn't start saying 'wouldn't it be nice if you had bigger...blonder etc etc etc'. Then I'd feel threatened. But while he still tells me I'm the sexiest thing he's ever seen (and I know he's lying!!!!) I just love him to bits whatever!

I prefer to wander around the house with no clothes on anyway...he's a bit more modest!

BB

Kiya