Martial Arts Magick

[Ice Phoenix]

I have only dabbled in the past, but would like to take up martial arts again. This time it will be Tai Chi Chuan, which is (for all intents and purposes) the physical practice of Taoism. It's focus is on developing chi more than kicking ass. It's also slow... which is good for those of us who are starting this late in life.

You may want to start here: http://www.taichichuan.co.uk/

From the Wiccan perspective, there are the books: Wiccan Warrior and Full Contact Magick by Kerr Cuhulain. He is a Wiccan and a police officer in Canada, with a great deal of interest (and no doubt some training) in martial arts.

I have only begun to read the first book, but so far it is a philosophical text, with many quotes from martial artists and Cuhulain admits that his personal Wiccan tradition is strongly influenced by the Eastern philosophies and espeicially martial arts--while using a Celtic pantheon and symbolism and retaining and practicing the fundamental tenets of Wicca. The first half of the book pretty much answers the question, "What is a Wiccan Warrior?" The second part deals more with how to actually live it.

The second book is on my "to read" list, and from what I've been able to find out, it focuses more on learning how to focus and build your energy (chi) for use in magick and life.

Since I am very interested in martial arts magick i wonder if anyone else has any experience with such, I look forward to any insights from other people.

[Tranquility]

Well, i have had some prior experience in Tai Chi, Qi Gong, and the Chakras and etc. I take tai chi along with my martial arts and it definately is something to build your balance, focus, concentration, and controlling your energies. Chi is pretty much the life force and energies of each person, and basicly in the pagan religion, and all similar religions, this is the energy ( known by many names) that is generated and used. I would certainly recommend Tai Chi for anyone, it can easily lengthen life span and help with sickness/ilness. Another reason why i did this is because my martial arts instructor said that i am very focused for my age and have a higher level of skill tha most my age.. I truly do recommend it for anyone though, its hard ot get used to being and acting slow but its definately worth it!

[jcldragon]

Under Martial Law prisoners in state & federal facilities can be executed. Under Martial Law, participating in a demonstration, would be considered treason.

[Mesektet]

martial arts has always been a passion of mine. I see it as a form of self discipline and self awareness. Being ready for action at all times is something i strive to keep in focus. mainly i practice an amalgam of Jeet Kun Do, simple submission, and kick-boxing

[Aidan]

martial arts has always been a passion of mine. I see it as a form of self discipline and self awareness. Being ready for action at all times is something i strive to keep in focus. mainly i practice an amalgam of Jeet Kun Do, simple submission, and kick-boxing


I agree, I have been Practicing Junsatao, our curriculum is not too different from that of Tai Chi.

[WandererInGray]

I really enjoy Tai Chi. Would like to take a regular class in that someday.

My main desire though is to learn some form of KungFu and the second I have some disposable income and find a good place to practice I'm starting that!

[mol]

Under Martial Law prisoners in state & federal facilities can be executed. Under Martial Law, participating in a demonstration, would be considered treason.
What?!

[9-2-2]

Under Martial Law prisoners in state & federal facilities can be executed. Under Martial Law, participating in a demonstration, would be considered treason.

Huh? :wtf:

[Xentor]

I'm training in the art of ninjutsu. It's based both in China and Japan, works on both the physical and the spiritual. It's where I learned how to meditate and work with energy.

Jeet Kune Do, isn't that the particular style created by late Bruce Lee?

[Mesektet]

Jeet Kun Do, translated: The Way of the Intercepting Fist, is the style and philosophy created by Bruce Lee, i highly recommend it to anyone.

[9-2-2]

It's been a year since I've practiced Karate. Bad me! :(
I took it in college. I go by the guide sheet I got from that class, and haven't been back since. No money, no classes. :( It really sucks! But I really enjoyed the class... we had several instructors, who were EXCELLENT guides. They didn't train anyone with the use of Chi, except for a couple of students they saw who showed genuine interest, even though we weren't perfect. I learned a few Chi techniques before leaving. And thanks to my occult background, I had a lot of experience with meditation - much to their surprise. :)

I would LOVE to learn to fight with a katana. I've been looking all over the state, and turns out, there's not one teacher in the state of Kansas! :bastard: :flamer: :grrrrr: :bangyourh

"Wiccan Warrior" is a decent book. I was very glad it was more philosophy and no spells - just a few rituals.

As for insights? Hmm. I'm so young, I don't know if I can provide any, but... everyone's a teacher. :)
This is what I've learned since I first picked up that book, long long ago, in a galaxy far away. I used to be entrenched in entropy and darkness, and the book was like a wake-up call, bringing to note the importance of balance and the middle way, as opposed to one extreme or the other. I've gained a lot of self-discipline, and through active working to change my life, I felt better about myself.

[WandererInGray]

I'm training in the art of ninjutsu.

Sweet! I took a single class on ninjutsu at a summer camp a long long time ago. It was so very intreguing though. And I loved the movements.

[Pip_Sensei]

Qi? I highly suggest going to learn an internal art. I currently do Tai Chi Chuan and soon to be doing Xianyiquan. I have done Tai Chi Chuan for 3 years and my sifu is currently teaching me Fa-Jing.

[Grey]

I used to practice Tai Qon Doe, and I recomend if you can find a good teacher, one that incoprorates all aspects, mental spiritual and physical. My old teacher didnt, and it really hurt alot of his students... some of them lost the whole message. He had a midlife crisis and divorced... I decided to take I hiatus, never went back. Still study a little kung fu with a local group of guys, but not to serious.
I also found this site a few years back, anyone interested in runes should check it out: http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/stav.html
its interesting atleast.

have a good one!

[Chanda]

I have practiced Tai Chi on and off for the last 6 years. It is thanks to Tai Chi that I find myself on this path. It was through it that I felt the energy for the first time and learned that there is a lot more out there than what standard western culture accepts.

I recomend Tai Chi to anyone young and old. Like with all martial arts, it is important to find a good teacher and to put in the practice time at home.

With a bit of luck I am about to start Capoeira (the Brazilian martial art) this weekend!

[skatha_mare]

I am slowly working at becoming a Kempo chick. I love my classes and my instructors (it's a good mix of the martial and the art of Kempo). I am hoping to have progressed enough to test for my brown belt next December, but there is a lot of work to do.

[DarkSidhe]

I've trained for years in Tai Kwon Do, and a little of Kenjutsu. But not for many years in a class. A few of my friends and I put together our own little Dojang in a barn behind my one friend's house, complete with mats, pads, bags, etc. We all have different martial arts backgrounds, and so are able to basically teach each other various things from our own respective styles. So it's sorta like learning Jeet Kune Do, sorta.
Styles that I've practiced with that my friends know range from Karate, Jujutsu, Aikido, Kendo, Tai Chi, Kickboxing, and Tai Boxing. We each get together and weight train, then stretching, then some of us meditate, others hit the bags, etc. Then we spar for a little bit. Then we pair off and teach each other either moves or other elements of our respective styles.
I find it difficult to use 'soft' forms, and easier to use the 'hard' styles, but incorporate many soft moves in my own style. Another friend of mine is really awesome in 'soft' forms, but can't do 'hard' movements very well. My friend who is mainly Tai Boxing likes things up-close, I prefer to use my reach. All in all, it's pretty kewl, and we get to see which styles are effective against other styles. Not something you can learn in one class, where you spar against someone who knows the same moves as you do. And also this way, we get to be both student and teacher.

I would like to learn more Kenjutsu, the only person I have to practice with is my friend who knows Kendo, they are similar, but different. Iado intrigues me a little, but moreso because I can then practice more on my own, without a partner. Unfortunately, all we have to practice with there are 'real' swords, and bokkan (both hurt), as we haven't yet had the chance/time/money to purchase our own bamboo.

Wiccan Warrior is a kewl book. Others that I like are "Zen in the Martial Arts" by Joe Hyams (a student of Bruce Lee), and am presently reading for the umpteenth time the "Book of Five Rings" or (Go Rin No Sho - the way of strategy)

I don't really have any spells or rituals that I have used, but have asked Scathach to aid my fighting skills, or Nemain to help instill fear in my opponants. Both are female, but in ancient Ireland, the females taught the males how to fight, so I do the same, rather than calling on Lugh, or Oghma.

[Xentor]

Ah, training with people that know different styles, how valuble! Must try that, sometimes.

Your mentioning soft and hard moves made me wonder, where to draw such a distinction. In ninjutsu, one tries to never be direct. So you don't attack on first encounter, you deflect, avoid, and only finish when forced. Deflection can be soft and hard, but you don't exactly hurt the attacker. Avoiding of course doesn't directly hurt their body (but it does hurt their soul). In the end, when finishing things, the moves can be quite hard, but hidden from view if we can help it. A grip can easily become a break, a push can become a hit, and a step can turn into a kick. We train to know exactly how much force is needed.

As for invoking spirits for their guidance, my sensei explained a bit about the mantra we use when starting and ending training. Basically, we ask the spirits of previous warriors to help us in our training and defend us from evil spirits. Also, incense is burned to cleanse the dojo. To this day, since I'm not accustomed to invoking spirits or deities, I took that little ritual for its face value. I'll try and put some spiritual intention into it, next time.

[DarkSidhe]

Soft forms, like Aikido, allow you to utilise the energy of your opponant against him. Hard forms allow you to block their energy with your own. For instance, if someone throws a punch at your chest, a 'soft' retort would be to use their momentum, and gently push their attack to the side, out of the way. A 'hard' retort would be to attack their arm as it comes toward you, to 'collide', to smack your forearm against his arm. Soft forms utilise more throws and grabs than punches and kicks. Soft=water, fire; hard=metal, wood

From the Book of Five Rings:
"When you decide to attack, keep calm and dash in quickly, forestalling the enemy. Or you can advance seemingly strongly but with a reserved spirit, forestalling him with the reserve.
Alternately, advance with as strong a spirit as possible, and when you reach the enemy move with your feet a little quicker than normal, unsettling him and overwhelming him sharply.
Or, with your spirit calm, attack with a feeling of constantly crushing the enemy, from first to last. The spirit is to win in the depths of the enemy.
These are all Ken No Sen."
The strategy of forestalling the enemy by attacking...

I have, through practice with my friends found many uses for soft forms, it's just that I am not as good with them yet, preferring to counter an attack with an attack. Kind of like the old saying that the best defense is a good offense.

"Boards don't hit back." Bruce Lee, Enter the Dragon.

[Xentor]

Then the form I'm practising must be in between. That's probably because there are 9 different schools contributing to this art. Some tend to be soft, some tend to be hard.

Our training is set around a set of spiritual elements. We cycle in order through earth, water, fire, wind and void / spirit. Each of those elements ask for a different approach, for some a different school of training is used. (And even then, we're quite flexible in choosing the most-fitting move.)

When first reaching the element of spirit / void, we reach the understanding that in a fight, we're able to choose any of the elements in response to attacks, and even start attacking ourselves. We should transit from one element into another by instinct alone. As that skill grows stronger, the difference between soft and hard no longer has meaning.

[DarkSidhe]

Ninjutsu is often, like pagans, a misunderstood art. You say 'ninja' and all of a sudden, someone thinks 'assassin'. I've read a bit into it, and into the honor system of those who practice ninjutsu, and I think it's pretty kewl. I've learned that ninjutsu is not just one style, but made up of many styles, and many other skills that have nothing at all to do with killing.
Seishin, Tenmon, Hensojutsu, Shinobi Iri, B-ryaku, Cho Ho, Itonjutsu, etc. I've also learned that there are various types of ninja; Genin, Chunin, and Kunoichi.
Any other info on what exactly your opening mantra is would be kewl. Are you allowed to print the words?

[morrigen]

My partner has been practising various forms of martial arts for most of his life, and I have been a fencer for years...this sort of activity does seem to have, by necessity a spiritual side. Even with fencing, one needs to have a connection with one's own inner self to be able to develop the "awareness" to think ahead of one's opponent.
On a slightly different note, I've recently been reading about the history of japan's samurai, which is absolutely fascinating. The code of bushido, the warrior's path (someone correct me if I get any of this wrong) is so complex and rigid...the honour code is really admirable, although so set in formality and so unbendable as to be almost unliveable...hence so much seppuku, I suppose. But the concepts of loyalty, fealty, and personal and family honour...whew. You can't help but admire.
Have I gone waffling on totally off topic? :)

[DarkSidhe]

In one of the books I have, the author states that the essense of Bushido, is death. The fact that you are already dead. That you were born dead. And by understanding that you are already dead, makes it easier to die for your lord, because you have already died.
I find samurai interesting, even if I believe that I am alive, and do not wish to die...
www.samurai.com wayy kewl sight.

[morrigen]

In one of the books I have, the author states that the essense of Bushido, is death. The fact that you are already dead. That you were born dead. And by understanding that you are already dead, makes it easier to die for your lord, because you have already died.
I find samurai interesting, even if I believe that I am alive, and do not wish to die...
www.samurai.com wayy kewl sight.

Yeah, the path of meifudo(sp?) where one walks the path of fate, accepting of all that comes one's way because one is already dead, just waiting to fulfill one's ultimate destiny.
Although meifudo is a path aligned with bushido, it seems to be more connected to quests and revenge.

[Xentor]

Any other info on what exactly your opening mantra is would be kewl. Are you allowed to print the words?

We use a ritual for opening and closing the training. It's pretty short, and I don't know if that is by design or by practice. I'll try to recite the words, but my knowledge of Japanese is limited, so I don't know about the spelling.

We sit down on the floor. The teacher sits in front of the altar, facing it. We sit behind him, looking at his back. The oldest pupil sits at the far right, the rest sits to his left.

We use a couple of seconds to get in tune with each other. Then the teacher puts his hands flat together, fingertips by his eyes. Says the teacher,
"Shikin haramitsu daykomye, " and claps his hands, twice.
We respond with the same words, and clap our hands simultaneously.

The teacher then turns around, faces us, and says,
"Onnegai shimas, " and claps his hands, once.
We respond by doing the same.

I've been told the first sentence is to invoke protection by the elders, the spirits of deceased warriors and trainers. The clapping serves both to ward of evil and to open up our energy conduits. The second sentence should wish each other a good training.

At the end of the training, the ritual is repeated, but the last sentence is different, of course. After the teacher turns around and faces us, the oldest pupil orders us to thank the teacher ("Sensei, ni rei"). After that, the second oldest pupil orders us to thank the oldest one ("Senpai, ni rei"). The oldest pupil usually serves as the teacher's demo dummy, so he takes the hardest blows and toughest moves.

We thank each other for the training, with the words,
"Domo arigato gozaimastan".

[DarkSidhe]

I really need to learn more Japanese. The only word I recognised was "shimas" which I think is "shimoz" which is the area in which the students sit. The altar would be the "kamiza" or "shomen", for which we would "shomen, ni rei" as well, depending. Thanks! Now I have something else to look into...always learning...
It's very similar to what we did in Tai Kwon Do and Kenjitsu, but I'm always looking up words. Words have power.

[Xentor]

Shimas could be shimoz. It's a translation based on sound. Like I write Mohammed but some English languages write Mahommed. The pronounciation is the same, though.

And you obviously recognised Domo Arigato, didn't you? ;)

Edit:
Yes, we use kamiza for altar as well.

[DarkSidhe]

So, with my curiosity never sated, tell me more...this is kewl.

Do you actually use Ninja-to? We had gone back and forth between Bokkan and Shinai depending on what was being taught in class. Now, my friends and I usually use the Shinai (less painful) for practice, but have used real swords for some choreographed kata.

We've also been practicing below the waist attacks, because neither of us ever feel that we will enter any tournaments ever again. You get to practice a lot of things that you never would before, due to not wanting to subconsciously use an illegal move.

They need to make a History vs. Hollywood episode on modern Ninjas. For one, you probably don't use the whole eggshell smoke grenade thing...(although distraction is a fundamental tactic).

[Xentor]

Discovery Channel hosts some great documentaries on martial arts, including Wu Shu and Ninjutsu. That's, I guess, as real as it gets on television.

As for illegal moves, Ninjutsu doesn't know that concept. We use what works.

[DarkSidhe]

As for illegal moves, Ninjutsu doesn't know that concept. We use what works.

That's what we've been working on for the past few years. I understand the need for safety while in tournaments (never been to a single one where no one got hurt), but never understood the holding-back that it creates. If you spend six years sparring with no contact, how will you really be able to use anything in a truly effective manner?

I've finally been able to learn to use my elbows and knees more (from my Mui-Tai friend) and while we've broken each other's noses, and come out of practice sessions with various bruises, etc, I feel that we are better for it, or at least more prepared to defend ourselves in a real-life situation.

But back to the original concept of this thread; I've also been trying to attempt to convince my friends that the spiritual side to martial arts is just as important. That meditation, and the gathering and focusing of chi are as important as which leg-sweep you are practicing.

[Xentor]

The first thing I learned from my martial arts group is how to work with elements. How to create a spiritual mind-set that allows one to perform a certain set of moves.

Earth moves are completely different from Wind moves, although both without agression. Earth is like Fire without the agression. Water moves are closer to Wind moves, but Water uses adrenaline rush to attack, whereas Wind moves will use the force of the attacker against them. Earth moves will stop you, Water will give and take, Fire will crush you, Wind will let you fall.

It needs a special mindset to do that. And the best element is the one called spirit or void, sometimes called emptiness. It's the one that encompasses all the others and lets you transit from one element into another as needed.

Without that spiritual training, my martial arts could just have been a game of soccer.

[DarkSidhe]

Void is akin to the term "In the Zone", when you are able to utilize your abilities without conscious thought. Void is also the 'Pause'; to assess and change/correct accordingly. Without using the Void, you might as well attempt to defeat your opponent with Kata.

[Kes]

I've studied primarily Uechi-ryu, which is a hard-soft system (a combination of both, sort of the "middle road" of karate :lol: ).

In my experience, martial arts is a great way to train yourself. It helps discipline the mind and the body, and being in good shape helps energy flow. A more visceral understanding of the concept of "ki" also never hurts. ;)


There's also a lot to be said for incorporating aspects of the "warrior" mind-set. I don't necessarily mean bushido or a knightly code, but the sense of always being prepared, the knowledge of your own abilities, and perhaps most importantly the willingness to subject the self/body to pain in order to move forward.


Dedication to martial arts and combat systems has also helped me cope with some past life issues, but of course that probably wouldn't be true for everybody. Just a side 'perk' for some, I guess. :shift: :ugh:



"Shikin haramitsu daykomye, " and claps his hands, twice.

"Shikin haramitsu daikomyo"

By being present in all action the great light of enlightenment will appear, is more or less what it means ("listening to all things that occur"). Sometimes said in English as "Every experience contains the potential for the enlightenment we seek".


"Onnegai shimas, " and claps his hands, once.

"Onegai shimasu."

Literally, "I wish," but it basically means "please."


("Sensei, ni rei")

Literally "Bow to sensei".


"Domo arigato gozaimastan".

"Doumo arigatou gozaimashita."

Basically, "Thank you very, very much for this thing you have done."



I can't believe how often Japanese comes in handy nowadays! :fprtyman3

[DarkSidhe]

My first classes were in Illinois, studying Tai Kwon Do, and I don't think that now I could recall any of the Korean spoken phrases. I can still count to 20 in Korean, I think. I've probably got them all confused by now. The little Japanese I've learned was either through anime, or other Martial Arts web sights, and some from my friends.

In a way, I sorta wish that I could afford to go back to a 'real' school, that inspite of being able to learn all sorts of things, that not having a 'real' teacher, I'm probably screwing up a lot of things.

If I went to Tai Kwon Do Association tournament tomorrow, I would either get disqualified rapidly, or get my butt kicked by a yellow belt.

[Tranquility]

Wow, its has been so many months since i have last posted... Anyhow i study Kung Fu along with Both Hard and Soft Tai Chi... Hard Tai Chi is referred to as The "Iron Body" and "iron palm" skills which i practice, and soft tai chi are the slow and flowing movements you normally see.

[DarkSidhe]

Most styles nowdays are an eclectic mix. If they were'nt, then martial arts would never get any better. A lot of ppl will spurn you because you did not learn at a Ryu that has 500 years of history behind it. I say, if they've never changed in 500 years, they're way behind. If we never add or subtract from a style, we'd still be hitting each other with clubs, because, "it still works the way it has for thousands of years".
And if the particular Ryu has changed...then what does it matter if it's 500 years old, it's still a new style. There's no way to really determine which way is best, except for combat to death. And who does that? And even then, all you did is prove that you may have just gotten in a lucky shot.

Either way, I'll take my .357 at thirty feet versus any black belt. Equilibrium.

[Xentor]

A firearm won't teach you how to heal people with your energy. It won't teach you how to train with people, how to form bonds, how to trust.

Apart from that, some of us aren't allowed to rely on firearms.

[DarkSidhe]

Not relying, simply using the best tool for the job, depending on the circumstances. Wouldn't use it to plow a field, or light up a room either. Clubs beat bare hands, swords beat clubs, guns beat swords. They're no less useful now than it was when the samurai started using them 100's of years ago.

[Kes]

Clubs beat bare hands, swords beat clubs, guns beat swords. They're no less useful now than it was when the samurai started using them 100's of years ago.

Agreed.

There's a reason that Tokugawa Ieyasu outlawed guns, especially after Sekigahara. :lol:

[Xentor]

Hello, the Battle of Sekigahara was on September 15, 1600 (on the ancient Chinese calendar, October 21 on the modern calendar). That's more than 400 years ago!

[Kes]

Hello, the Battle of Sekigahara was on September 15, 1600 (on the ancient Chinese calendar, October 21 on the modern calendar). That's more than 400 years ago!

... Your point being?

[Xentor]

... Your point being?

Societies and firearms have changed in the last 400 years. Ethics around the usage of guns have changed. Outlawing them now may meet with fierce opposition, especially in the USA.

I can think of no war in the last century, which has been fought without the use of guns. Using swords seems completely silly.

Where I live, guns are outlawed. If we drive through a city and have a screw driver next to the driver seat (instead of in the trunk), we can get arrested. But there's no law against buying swords or knives. We just aren't allowed to use them in combat.

[Kes]

Societies and firearms have changed in the last 400 years. Ethics around the usage of guns have changed. Outlawing them now may meet with fierce opposition, especially in the USA.

It met with fierce opposition then, too. It doesn't take a genius to realize that firearms level the playing field between a farmer and a trained warrior. Tokugawa outlawed guns because he recognized the possibility for a non-samurai revolt; don't think he didn't have to kill people to do it, either. ;)


However, the purpose of my post was to note that even the founder of the Tokugawa shogunate recognized the validity of using guns in combat. A weapon is a weapon; a sword is no more "noble" than a gun, and learning how to fight hand-to-hand doesn't confer any mystical abilities or knowledge that can't also be learned with a firearm.

The distinction made between guns and other weapons is artifice.

[Xentor]

Ah, I see. I agree. The difference indeed lies not in the weapon. It lies in the person who yields it.

Why is that important? A gun is quite effective.

It is important because the gun doesn't teach you martial arts. The gun teaches you how to spread fear and death. Martial arts is much more than yielding a weapon.

As an analogy: the bible doesn't teach you spirituality. You need a community of spiritual people to learn spirituality.

[Kes]

It is important because the gun doesn't teach you martial arts. The gun teaches you how to spread fear and death. Martial arts is much more than yielding a weapon.

I think that's an unfair and inaccurate stereotype.

Martial arts don't necessarily teach anything more than how to use your body as a weapon; the difference lies in the student and how the student responds to the art. Learning how to use and care for a gun is a similar situation.

Classifying guns as nothing more than a tool that "teaches you how to spread fear and death" is rather like dismissing Tae Kwon Do because its kata are sometimes done as a competative sport.

[DarkSidhe]

I think that's an unfair and inaccurate stereotype.

Martial arts don't necessarily teach anything more than how to use your body as a weapon; the difference lies in the student and how the student responds to the art. Learning how to use and care for a gun is a similar situation.

Classifying guns as nothing more than a tool that "teaches you how to spread fear and death" is rather like dismissing Tae Kwon Do because its kata are sometimes done as a competative sport.

Martial Arts taught in schools today as being 'only a means of defense' is also not the only martial arts being taught. Martial Arts taught in the Armed Forces does not follow the same guidelines. A sword used to spread fear and death as well, before the arrival of firearms. You didn't use your sword to subdue. If you pull out your sword, it's intent is to cut you opponent.

Police officers spend as much if not more time training in firearms as opposed to hand-to-hand combat. An expert marksman, or sniper, has to use the void as much as any swordsman. And just picking up a gun without training only makes you lethal through luck, and superior firepower; but there is a skill to it.

The United States Army snipers are olympic class marksmen, who train hours and hours to hit precise targets at farther than three football fields away.

The important thing is that the word "Martial" means; "1. Of, pertaining to, or concerned with war or the military life. 2. Suggestive of or suitible for war or military opperations. 3. Of or characteristic of a warrior." Martial Arts are the Arts of War.

Admittedly, there is an amount of spiritualism involving certain martial arts. But that is the difference between Kenjutsu and Kendo.

[~ Monk ~]

On a slightly different note, I've recently been reading about the history of japan's samurai, which is absolutely fascinating. The code of bushido, the warrior's pathWandererInGray and I have been reading about this too. :) There doesn't seem to be a whole lot out there. May I ask what material you're reading?

[Xentor]

I think that's an unfair and inaccurate stereotype.

Martial arts don't necessarily teach anything more than how to use your body as a weapon; the difference lies in the student and how the student responds to the art. Learning how to use and care for a gun is a similar situation.

Classifying guns as nothing more than a tool that "teaches you how to spread fear and death" is rather like dismissing Tae Kwon Do because its kata are sometimes done as a competative sport.

Mmm, somehow I think you just said the same as I did, only I seem to have a hard time making myself clear.

I could replace the word "gun" with any old weapon, and the meaning would be the same. You don't learn how to be a warrior from using a weapon. That you do learn how to use a weapon when you learn how to be a warrior, I find evident.

The mindset of a warrior is different from the mindset of someone who's merely yielding a weapon. Anyone can pick up a gun, or a stick or a bat or a knife for that matter, it doesn't make them a warrior. Most of the time, weapons make people stupid. A gun makes you deadly, but not necessarily a warrior.

You can be a warrior and use a gun too, of course.

That's the reason for my statement that martial arts can teach you more than a gun can.

In the form of martial arts I practice, a lot of time and effort is spent on the spirit, on using the elements as mindsets. For me, that part of the training is far more important than the weaponry. No weapon in the world will teach me how to sense whether or not someone wants to attack. No weapon will teach me how to heal another person, how to deal with social stir.

Martial arts can teach that, if the student and the teacher are willing.

[Kes]

The mindset of a warrior is different from the mindset of someone who's merely yielding a weapon. Anyone can pick up a gun, or a stick or a bat or a knife for that matter, it doesn't make them a warrior. Most of the time, weapons make people stupid. A gun makes you deadly, but not necessarily a warrior.

You can be a warrior and use a gun too, of course.


Teehee. Okay. ^_^ Gotcha.

[DarkSidhe]

Okay. That, I can understand.

[wandering_monk]

WandererInGray and I have been reading about this too. :) There doesn't seem to be a whole lot out there. May I ask what material you're reading?

Just thought I would drop a couple thoughts in here.

"Secrets of the Samurai" by Rattl and Westbrook is a pretty informative book. It is published through Castle Books and if you live in the USA and near a Barnes and Noble they HAD it on the clearence shelves for like 8.99 last I saw.

There are some other great books like the Art of War and the Book of Five Spheres, but they are pretty well known and the above book is more like solid information than the martial philosphy. It covers that concept too, but it is an intense look into the Samurai during Fuedel Japan.

I have a couple other books on the Samurai packed up from my latest move, if I can dig them out I will post the titles and authors in case any one is still trying to find more info.

[DarkSidhe]

One of my favorite spots on the web, the History Channel.

History Channel : Samurai (http://www.historychannel.com/perl/search.pl?word=samurai&x=15&y=13)