Golden Dawn...and Egyptian Gods

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by Sunsong on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969

Well, this site has got me really interested in the Occult and related. I stumbled upon the Golden Dawn and found that they connect with the Egyptian Gods..ie use their names in rituals and such. My question is that they seems...well...Jewish. A lot of their system seems to come from a Jewish background, but with Egyptian gods. What is the story there? Or am I just not getting it.

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by Shatav on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969

Don't get me going...

:(

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969



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Quote: from Shatav on 6:05 pm on Feb. 6, 2001
Don't get me going...

:(
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No...now..cmon..get going..and I will back you up.

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by Shatav on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969



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No...now..cmon..get going..and I will back you up.
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I'm holding you to that! :)

Basically, the Golden Dawn was started as a Hermetic tradition. The general basis of most Hermetic traditions is to find the things that every culture/religion/spirituality has in common and make that into one creation that is none of them, but all of them. They look at symbolism, mythos and many other aspects to do this.

(Now's when I get mean, this is all just IMHO before I get any hate mail from any Golden Dawn followers). Anyhow, they forgot the most crucial aspect of being hermetic, to lose all the names and traditions that would be specific to any one. Hence you get this hodge podge mishmash of Egyptian, Kabbalah, Enochian, and who knows what else in the system. It really annoys me, sorry. If you're going to strive for hermeticism, do it, don't just combine aspects from other traditions into one.

Okay, rant mode off...sorry about that. It just irks me. I'm not normally this sour towards anything.

;)

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by Litha on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969

I'm in total agreement with you there Shatav.
I have an interest in Enochian magick, Kabbalah, and Egyptian Diety, but each to me is it's own separate system.

Perhaps one could go on to study Golden Dawn AFTER doing each system on it's own first, so that they don't get that mishmash head thing going on.

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by Shatav on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969



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Perhaps one could go on to study Golden Dawn AFTER doing each system on it's own first, so that they don't get that mishmash head thing going on.
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*nods* That's the way I would do it personally. That way you have a better understand of everything that you are incorporating and how they actually fit together better.

I'm certainly all for creating a path that may take from many others, but I think that if you do this, it's important to fully understand where you are taking from and why. But that's me...I like to nit-pick things down to where no matter what is asked, I understand enough to answer.

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by Lyra on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969

One of the things that many who study past cultures and religions, to bring them into their own trads, is that most of what we learn is second hand..As with the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, and early greek and Roman cultures is that someone...most likely from outside their culture passed the info on to the scholars and recorders of the world..therefore we have a small amount of real knowledge and a whole lot of speculation on the part of the writer...Then we have to deal with the mistakes and misinterpretations of those in more modern times that try to piece together a religion and a culture from another rprejudicial point of view...A lot of what Budge and others learned about Egypt was based on french and German writers who accompanied Napoleon into the land of the nile 2 centuries ago....
In the end what you get is a mish-mash of theory and conjecture...There are some very enlightened modern writers..Murray Hope comes to mind that have gleened thru a lot of the junk to find some real truth therein..
I know this may seem a bit off base but you have to often rely on your own inner thoughts and your link with the divine inspieation to find out the true meaning of some of the religious documents that one often comes across in stuying ancient religions...
A story...Whe I first started my study of Egyptian magic I concentrated on Isis and Osiris...thinking they were major gods...well they are but there were so many other dieties I did not look into...i did a visualization and dream ritual to bring me insite into these two god/dess and suddenly I was staring into two blazing green eyes..Do you know me...a voice asked...Yes you are Isis...I was so overconfident..NO!!
the voice said...I will show you...and suddenly I was standing before a long wall with writing all over it...over thye course of several weeks i would meditate and then go to bed only to find myself at the wall reading the hyroglyphs...since in real life I can't read them well I was amazed at how clear they were to me...and when I woke I would write down what I had read...It ended up being a temple wall poem and the Goddess I saw was Sekhmet...a very old goddess and one I had never really learned much about...I have since learned a lot about her and I am very attached to her....she is my patroness...If anyone wants to e-mail me privately let me know and I can send you the temple text..Merehk has a copy that I sent him a couple of years ago...
MA'AT

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by mol on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969

And as you see...there you have it. I can tell you that I have studied the G:D: system extensively...and had I not had any experience in the realm of Ritual Magick and the Egyptian Deites and of the JEWISH faith and the Kabbalah and the...etc. I never would have understood a thing. But beyond that..

I am an Eclectic Witch. What does that mean...TO ME? Well, that means I do take from other Paths that which fits into mine. I am a scavenger of the Spiritual Realm, if you will, but i do it without names. I name nothing in my system..my Path. I incorporate everything so deep into my Path that it just becomes that...part of my Path. No need for a label.

Love and Light.

[mysticwicks]

-- Posted by Merekh on 7:00 pm on Dec. 31, 1969

Agreed...

I have been fortunate enough to actually live in Egypt - and through that - gained so much from just being there - and not knowing a damn thing. What I learned was from experiencing it - and not so much knowing what I was experiencing.. Until now - when I can put that which I am learning to use with the experiences. Sekhmet has effected me so many ways - not that any of the others haven't, but - She has been an awesome teacher for me. I don't even like what She has to say always, but it's always something that will help me "think for myself". Sometimes, no matter what system, generally (very) - the systems means quite a bit when learned, but when lived and experienced it is personified. Other systems are great - as we all have the gravitational pull toward one or the other, but - when you find what works for you - then it all comes together.

[Sunsong]

Originally posted by Shatav

Basically, the Golden Dawn was started as a Hermetic tradition. The general basis of most Hermetic traditions is to find the things that every culture/religion/spirituality has in common and make that into one creation that is none of them, but all of them. They look at symbolism, mythos and many other aspects to do this.


So then the Golden Dawn was based on an Egyptian Magic system as well as the Gods. Where did the Judaism come into play. A lot of the names in the rituals actually refer to Yaweh or Jesus.

[Lyra]

Sunsong,
When you look at a map of Egypt and the surrounding areas you see the close proximity of the Hebrew world and the land of Egypt...The israeli nation was nomadic well into the history of Egypt and their influence in this area is still being seen in this day...When the Golden Dawn was formed it wasin a time in History when the great lands of the world were being rediscovered..Egyptian art, sciences, and culture were new and facinating...The travels of Napoleon brought back artifacts and writings describing a wonderous culture and a facinating religion..To the creators of the Dawn this culture and its mysteries repreented a new frontier and the basis for great magical work..By the time the Dawn was created the hebrew influences on Egyptian culture and the influence of the Coptic Christians set an elaborate Majickal as well as cultural tradition...I myself have very little to do with the Dawn and that is my choice..I am as we speak trying to put together an Egyptian trad that is based on the Shaministic past of Egypt..Anyone care to add...MA'AT

[mol]

I would interested..in another thread..to learn more of this tradition you are building...if permitted.

[Sunsong]

Originally posted by Lyra
Sunsong,
When you look at a map of Egypt and the surrounding areas you see the close proximity of the Hebrew world and the land of Egypt...The israeli nation was nomadic well into the history of Egypt and their influence in this area is still being seen in this day...When the Golden Dawn was formed it wasin a time in History when the great lands of the world were being

Thanks to you, Lyra. That cleared up a bit of mystery and added a little bit more....lol.

i am still studying though.