I am new.. and I am thoroughly confused. Many questions. :)

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Hello there.

My name is James, I am sixteen and live in Texas; I have recently been drawn to Wicca and the pagan religions but I am very new to the study thereof and feel very insecure about my thoughts and am not quite sure how to voice them. I was raised in an area where there are like ten sub-denominations of Southern Baptistry alone, so I am all but completely ignorant of the pagan religions; I was raised with the definition of Pagan as meaning 'unholy' or something along those lines.

Most of my insecurity comes from confusion and ignorance, and having finally found a large group of diverse people with diverse ideals, I figured I would ask what is troubling me. In advance, I apologize if in my ignorance I say something horribly offensive to anyone else's chosen beliefs.



All the sites that I have visited so far have been of the following varieties:

A) Wicca is Ancient:
These people say that Wicca is the oldest Pagan religion and emphasize the atrocities of the Burning Times. They say that the existance of Wicca throughout the centuries was because it was closely held in secret, and because of the bookburning and other destruction wrought by Christians.

B) Wicca is New:
These people say that Wicca is around fifty years old, but most maintain that it is based on the same traditions as all other Pagan religions, and speculate that even the eastern religions (such as Shinto) come from the same roots as does Wicca.


Now, among these, we have of course squabbling and someone who thinks one way assumes someone who thinks the other way is wrong. This confuses me.


Secondly, I am ignorant also as to what I truly feel I should be. To be honest, I assumed I wanted to be Wiccan because it is the only Pagan religion I had ever heard of; I assumed Druidry was something from videogames, that the Greeks eventually all gave up their Gods and Goddesses in lieu of Jesus and God, that the Egyptians.. beh, just sat there and were eventually industrialized or something. I became desensitized to the thought of a nature religion being 'evil' by my interest in Animé, and subsequent interest in all things Japanese, which began around when I was twelve; there are many references to nature spirits, faeries, etc.(Once again, I am ignorant; not meaning to be offensive.)


I do not rightly know what I am; I learned more about Wicca because I have friends who are, or at least claim to be or related to someone who is, Wiccan.

I became drawn to the basic principles and idealogy that is present on most Wiccan sites. It made much more sense to me that the Divine was of dual gender as opposed to simply Male-only. The ideal that this Divine had multiple aspects as represented by God/Goddess (or possibly even taken to be the Christian Sacred Trinity), the various names givein to the One-God (Allah, God, Yanweh, etc), that perhaps the various poly-theistic Gods/Goddesses were simply aspects of this Divine.. all that made perfect sense from my personal viewpoint. I like the idea of finding the Divine as a part of oneself, and oneself a part of the Divine, and having no barrier between oneself and that same Divine. I believe strongly in simply trying to find a way to live so that I feel personal fulfillment without the expense of others. "An it harm none, do as ye wilt" does truly strike home to me on so many levels, as there are so many ways one could interpret 'harming' someone or something.

What I do not know is if these basic idealogies are exclusive to Wicca, or if they are there in all Pagan religions. And if they all exist in other Pagan religions, I do not know what seperates one from the other. Quite simply, I know that there is SOMETHING out there that I am seeking, and that I am wanting greatly to be a part of it and learn more of it, but I do not know totally what it is (or rather, what it is called) that I am looking for.

Also, I don't have any clue what this post had to accomplish other than to simply reach out for others for assistance. I thank any who read this for my time... perhaps if someone could sit down and explain basic differences between the various Pagan religions (and some people simply refer to themselves as Pagan with no specifics--this also confuses me), that would be great.

I've run out of remotely logical things to say, so I'll stop talking. :)

[Ahautenites]

that the Egyptians.. beh, just sat there and were eventually industrialized or something

**Chuckles** Were conquered.

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Excuse my ignorance. :D

[Lucid]

I can't tell you which path to pursue James , no one can . I live in TN so I do understand about growing up in a predominately christian area. My advice would be to relax and enjoy learning. You will never know everything about all pagan religions , but you can learn something new everyday. I think paganism is older than christianity. I'm not sure how old Wicca is.
On my search this quote by buddha has helped me a lot . I hope will read it and think about the meaning.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "
Buddha

[Rick]

Damn, son, why don't you ask an easy question, like what's the Runic formula for creating life? ;)

I can't answer your questions about Wicca (the general information you've already included in your post pretty well sums up my meager knowledge on that subject); I'm an Odinsman, myself (some would say Asatru), but I think that very often this subject boils down to "you say to-MAY-to & I say to-MAH-to"... the differences usually seem hardly worth bothering with (well, except to the fundamental religious radicals, & yes, unfortunately, Paganism has it's share of those, too)...

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

So now, not only do I have to worry about Jehova's Witnesses, and insane church ladies yelling "LUCIFER WILL EAT YOU!," but also I have to try to avoid insane Pagans preeching "[Insert Deity] WILL EAT YOU!!" O.o?


Or were you referring to people who try to exploit someone's ignorance by planting false ideas in their minds? :(



Oh, and that runic formula would probably be handy too. Might be useful to actually have a life. :D

[Lucid]

I think Rick is saying that there is hypocrasy in followers of paganism , just as in every religion.

them-You must cleanse your athame every month .
Lucid - why ?
them- to remove negative energy
Lucid - I like my athame the way it is.
them- but its oozing with negativity
Lucid - feels dandy to me
them - But its wrong page 105 says its wrong

You get the idea.. to thine ownself be true - shakespear ( I think lol)

[Flar's Freyja]

:wave: Merry Meet and Welcome, and congratulations on having the courage to step through the door.

As you learn, you will even have more questions. I'd like to suggest that you begin in the area that interests you most and take your time learning and digesting information. There are as many of us who practice an eclectic mix of the different traditions and practices as there are those who are members of one specific tradition. Many of us live in areas such as yours and practice alone, "solitary."

Paganism is a true spiritual path (I don't like the word "religion") and should not be entered into lightly. You may study and decide to remain on your current path, but at least you will have eliminated your ignorance about paganism.

Again, take your time. If paganism is the path for you, you will know this in your heart. Until that time comes, remain open minded and ask questions as they come up. You don't need all the answers today, and no one has all the answers anyway :D

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Ahh.. I see.

It's true that I don't need the answers immediately.. I suppose I should work on my patience. I am learning slowly; I am presently checking out huge lists of Gods and Goddesses and slowly coming to the conclusion that I don't really identify with any preconceptionalized God or Goddess; they are those created to envision the Divine by someone else and not how *I* see the Divine. Oh well.. perhaps I'll find one eventually.

[Flar's Freyja]

You'll find thousands of different perspectives. I identify with several gods and goddesses - but I see them as different aspects of the whole - in my perception, there is actually only One Divine.

I was on this path for at least a year before I connected with my patron goddess and I now have three, representing the sacred triune of Maiden, Mother and Crone. Prior to that, I communed with the Lord and Lady - and still do, along with my patrons.

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Interesting.. very interesting. Did you have a mental image of The Goddess beforehand, and did it come to be similar to the three Goddesses you came to know? Just curious.

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by PaganInkubus

Interesting.. very interesting. Did you have a mental image of The Goddess beforehand, and did it come to be similar to the three Goddesses you came to know? Just curious.

Not really. I was raised Catholic and although I now see Mary as a goddess, I didn't at that time. What occurred for me was that I changed my perception of a male god to a god with both male and female aspects. It's interesting, though, that with the exception of Jesus, I never really had a mental image of God. I grew up during a critical time in regard to racism and discrimination and one of the things that was brought up was that God may be black........

Although I use images of the goddesses in prayer and ritual - I really see the god and goddess in the sun, the moon, the air, the sky, the rain, the snow, the grass, the trees, the flowers, the water, my food, the children, the elderly, the person who made my day, the person who made my day miserable.......

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Hmm. Enlightening.

Btw, personally I think Jesus and Moses and all the people alluded to in the Bible would HAVE to be black; afterall, they hail from northern Africa and the Middle East.. I mean, even if you were born caucasian there, you'd tan. Oh well.

[materra]

Originally posted by PaganInkubus

So now, not only do I have to worry about Jehova's Witnesses, and insane church ladies yelling "LUCIFER WILL EAT YOU!," but also I have to try to avoid insane Pagans preeching "[Insert Deity] WILL EAT YOU!!" O.o?


Or were you referring to people who try to exploit someone's ignorance by planting false ideas in their minds? :(



Oh, and that runic formula would probably be handy too. Might be useful to actually have a life. :D

James my lad.... you got it!!! I think I am going to like you....
Oh, Howdy :wave:

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by PaganInkubus

Hmm. Enlightening.

Btw, personally I think Jesus and Moses and all the people alluded to in the Bible would HAVE to be black; afterall, they hail from northern Africa and the Middle East.. I mean, even if you were born caucasian there, you'd tan. Oh well.

:) I hope that opens some doors and windows for you. I'm your neighbor in Oklahoma, but I was born and raised on the east coast, so I got quite a culture shock about religion when I moved here ten years ago. Imagine my dismay when I was told that Catholics are pagans and are going to hell :eek:

One of the things that attracted me to this path is that we respect all paths. I've always liked the phrase that there are many paths, all leading to one God ~ although not everyone sees it that way.

I believe that Raevyn is doing some lessons threads in this forum. There is also a lot of good information in The History forum as well as Theology and Philosophy.

[IsisErin]

Originally posted by PaganInkubus
It's true that I don't need the answers immediately.. I suppose I should work on my patience. I am learning slowly; I am presently checking out huge lists of Gods and Goddesses and slowly coming to the conclusion that I don't really identify with any preconceptionalized God or Goddess; they are those created to envision the Divine by someone else and not how *I* see the Divine. Oh well.. perhaps I'll find one eventually.

First of all, merry meet, James.

In respect of the quote above, some people find that they don't identify with a particular Goddess and God or a particular pantheon (just a quick explanation though perhaps not such a good one, pantheons are groups of deities that hail from a particular culture, e.g. Greek, Celtic) and just know Spirit, the Divine, without having to put faces to them.

Good luck in your studies, I'm still very much a Seeker too, and it seems like a lot of people here, even the most experienced ones, still feel like they have a lot to learn. But you've found the right place to ask questions. :)

~Erin~

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Thanks for the welcome.. the understanding of people here is much unlike any other place I have recently found. There is a respect for eachother and a helpful attitude towards others, and I find it very comforting.

[Erincelt]

First off, let me just admit that I was too lazy to read all the replies already posted.. :) Secondly let me extend you a grand, warm welcome, both to MW, and to the wonderful chaosium of (neo-)paganism.

As to your initial post..

1 - Wicca IS very young, but its ideas ARE very old. This is a topic that will doubtless be debated over for all time, but the fact remains that it also doesn't really matter.. to dwell on the past is fruitless. Besides, a religion is not defined so much by its origins as by its followers.

2 - As they say in the various "X Anonymous" support groups out there, "Admitting you have a problem is the first step." Now that you do know there are options, you will start exploring them. As you explore, you learn truckloads of new things -- every day! -- and you will gradually come to terms with what seperates one faith from another... you may even be surprised about what you will learn about Christianity and its own origins along the way. Eventually some one faith may or may not call out to you.. if not, that's fine too. Many people live rather happily simply calling themselves "Pagan" and maintaining a few strongly devoted, if ambiguous, beliefs. :) I did my own time in that capacity once.

Lastly, don't ever be afraid to ASK us about anything! You only have so many ways of learning about something... prayer, study, and talking to someone else about it. However, try to take most things with a bit of salt.. most people tend to let their personal views color their lessons. There are few exceptions. Sadly, I'm not one of the exceptions myself.. though I do try hard.

Welcome again! And many blessings, newest childe of the Sacred Embrace! ("meow!")

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Thanks for the welcome. :)
Please check my other threads. :D

[Chibi-Fallon]

The nice/frustrating thing about any Pagan religion is there isn't one person who can hand out answers.
In the beginning I know it seems insanely overwhelming, like there’s no way you can *ever* learn all of this stuff if you studied from the day you were born until the day you died. But at some point you just gotta say that’s okay and you’re gonna study what you think is interesting, or what you wanna/feel you need to learn about. And what you don’t learn from books life has an interesting way of teaching you. ;) And listen to old people, since they already know all that kinda stuff. Keeps you from having to learn to many things the hard way.

On another note, I think the funniest thing of all would be if God was Asian. :D But how pissed would that make you? "Maybe God is black and not white?" And you're sitting there on you're cloud going "I'm Asian! A-S-I-A-N! Are you people inbreeding?! I'm pretty sure I said *not* to do that." :lol: I amuse myself far to much.

[Erincelt]

I sometimes like to picture God as an 80 year old woman, with red-dyed hair, holding a bowling ball in one hand, and the other grasping an RC Cola in one of those foam can-holders, wearing a ratty pair of jeans and a one-size-too-small offwhite t-shirt. why? Because its absolutely hilarious. Imagine this: Person X prays for a special answer from God... God takes a sip of her RC, and rolls her bowling ball.. Hmm.. left 3 pins standing.. today's a Tuesday.. Well, what does item #3 on the Tuesday list have to say... ah alrighty then. *clears throat* "Let no man rule absolutely over the life of another!" Hmm.. *shrug* I guess it works. *plays "booming voice" recording of message on the Divine Aiwa Stereo and goes back to her chair to read the morning paper*

Am I blasphemist? Whenever possible. :) Doubt reaffirms faith.. and little things like this help keep us from getting beyond serious to the point of being just rediculous.

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Love the replies.. just love them!

[Lucid]

I sometimes like to picture God as an 80 year old woman, with red-dyed hair, holding a bowling ball in one hand, and the other grasping an RC Cola in one of those foam can-holders, wearing a ratty pair of jeans and a one-size-too-small offwhite t-shirt. why? Because its absolutely hilarious.

You think God is my Aunt Edna ? :lol:

[Erincelt]

Is it really any stranger than thinking Alanis Morisette is God? And apparently enough people share that idea to make a movie about it! Quick... let's get a camera and film your Aunt Edna!
We'll be rich! Rich!! RICH!!!

Or just incredably stupid. I can do that on my own.

Quote of the Day:
"An idiot thinking is just resting."
--- Excel, "Excel Saga"

[Lucid]

No actually it is not any stranger than that . Hope I din't offend you , its just a very close description of how my aunt is sometimes .

[Erincelt]

Blah.. believe me, if I were/am offended, you'd know it.. ;) Besides, if I really were, I'd PM you about it, not post. I do have a sense of humor, whatever the people in the black suits might have told you..

And PaganInkubus.. do you even have a life, man?! You've got... a tonload of posts in just a few days! Impressive. I'm jealous. *hangs his head in shame and lays prostate before your glory*

Hehe.. like I've said before, its good to see your enthusiasm! Its inspiring. *dubs thee Ye Second Lesser Muse of Mysticwicks.com*

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Life?
Wha's dat? :huh:

[Derry]

James, you poor thing, I know where you're coming from. I was raised in the south and especially in the Southern Baptist belt. Half my family is southern baptist, the other half is Catholic....now I live in Utah..aka..Mormonville.....so I can also relate to Freyja too about the catholics being considered Pagan :lol: You have the same questions I used to. I can't tell you how old Wicca is...but I will tell you that Paganism as a whole is thousands of years old. Recently cave paintings from 20,000 years ago was found on some cave walls in Europe. It showed some spiral circles, then a picture of people migrating...then some sort of animal being sacrificed. For many years people thought that the early homosapien were just drawing " pretty little pictures" on the wall. Wrong. Finally a link was made. A Shaman of the tribe went into that cave to get an insite from their"divine" on where to migrate when winter was approaching. The swirl mark was like meditation or summoning the divine, the picture of a migration showed the direction given and the picture of the sacrifice was a thank you to the divine. You see, Paganism is old, very old. There is no "right path" either. Look at ancient history, so many cultures, so many paths...but all right to each person. I am sort of like freyja in that I see the DIvine in aspects of male and female, but still of one divine nature. Kinda like this. A dollar bill = $ 1.00, 4 quarters still = $ 1.00, 2 quarters, 4 dimes and 2 nickels still = $ 1.00..etc. No matter how you add it up..it's still a dollar. Don't know if that helps, but take your time and explore..you're at the right spot!!!

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Comforting. :)

[AstraSkye]

Originally posted by Derry

I can't tell you how old Wicca is...

About 50 years...

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

That's what I'm thinking too, Astra.

But, consider: since Wicca is based on the traditions of much more ancient Pagan rituals, the essence of what wicca IS has existed for much longer. So one could juxtapose that wicca has existed for thousands of years; it just got an actual name 50 years ago.


Just my thoughts. :)

[AstraSkye]

Originally posted by PaganInkubus

That's what I'm thinking too, Astra.

But, consider: since Wicca is based on the traditions of much more ancient Pagan rituals, the essence of what wicca IS has existed for much longer. So one could juxtapose that wicca has existed for thousands of years; it just got an actual name 50 years ago.


Just my thoughts. :)

Interesting way of seeing it :)

I just find it so funny when people go "Wicca is an ancient religion - several thousand years old!", or even "Wicca was the first religion!" hehehe... ;)

[Gently Gazing Eyes]

Ha.. very true. :)