Gnosticism

[Andyastro]

I understand the gnosis and the gnostic point of view
they the early theogians before the catholic church
they understood the moment the now in spiritual terms
but like valentinas and Marcion denied the old testament
but that is clearly opposed to the Son of God Jesus of
Nazareths teachings for he said he did not come to change the law of moses but to fufill it......therefore the Lord
commands all dogma......the early church was right to condemn fancies for what is it worth to have an intellectual
spirituality that nobody understands over a common faith
And today we see current gnostics saying that he the Lord was a myth and did nt exist and condenming the Old testamnet the word of God on Sinai.

[FLipsiDE]

I've looked a bit at Gnosticism and it was a very odd kind of Mystic Christianity. It was persecuted to destruction by the early Catholic church and only a few writtings and references to it's writings remain.

There are TONS of web pages on it nowadays.

http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/human.html
(Simple site but I think it gives you straight out some of the overview you want)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_chov.htm
(A bit more on it's origins but not much of it's thoughts.)

From what I remember (and if there are any better memories than mine, please correct me) they viewed this world as a kind of hell. Created by the God of the Old Testement, a God they viewed as small minded, pathetic and cruel. This world was created as kind of a prison(?) and above this petty God, outside the shell of this world, there was a True God who occasionally sent mankind a guide to try and free them from the prison. Jesus was the best of these guides but the salvation he promised wasn't born of his blood for some 'original sin', you were trapped in a cycle of reincarnation until you leanred to let go of material things and then you would achieve Gnosis, or understanding of the universe. once you had achieved Gnosis you would be free.

It really has some appeal, I have to admit. Theologically it explains some things like "why do bad things happen to good people?" and "why did God create Tarantula Wasps?" better than standard Christianity. (In my opinion of course) But there were a number of different groups and when I dug a bit deeper into them they seemed weirder and weirder... Also, I think that viewing the world as a prison is not likely to entrench a good sense of environmental respect.

[jcldragon]

While there were some nutters like the Gnostic group who believed that having babies was a sin, because it was bringing a soul into this awful world, (Any questions on why they died out?), there is a great deal in Gnosticism that shows that they were attempting to incorporate the teachings of the Mystery Schools into Christianity.

CG Jung was very much into Gnosticism, (and other Western Occultism). See The Gnostic Jung (isbn 0-691-01923-1). I've always liked "Seven Sermons to the Dead".

Other things worth looking into are the scrolls dug up at Nag Hammadi in Egypt, especially the Gospel of Thomas which was writen by the Apostle "Doubting" Thomas. who became a full-blown Mystic, as you can see from his writing.

[Hamelyn]

I like to know a little about everything, and I thought I did know a little about Gnosicism, but wooooow....

I mistook an ice cube for the tip of an iceberg! THANKS! *devours info*

[Xander67]

well, Gnosticism origiates to pre islamic Iranian dualism.

beyond that, it was shaped by a combination of philosophical, theological, and mythological streams from Zoroastrianism, judaism, platonism, mystery religions, Egyptian Magic and Philosophy, and Cristianity(1st and 2nd century CE)

they core of Gnostic teachings is that the universe was created by an Evil God, and therefore, anything , any MAterial thing, (matter atoms) is Evil.

Study of Gnosticism is complex becasue at the higher levels, the leaders are enouraged to make new sects, but they all have a common thread unifying them as Gnostics...

*taken from my research notes**

[Marchosias]

Originally posted by Andyastro

I understand the gnosis and the gnostic point of view
they the early theogians before the catholic church
they understood the moment the now in spiritual terms
but like valentinas and Marcion denied the old testament
but that is clearly opposed to the Son of God Jesus of
Nazareths teachings for he said he did not come to change the law of moses but to fufill it......therefore the Lord
commands all dogma......the early church was right to condemn fancies for what is it worth to have an intellectual
spirituality that nobody understands over a common faith
And today we see current gnostics saying that he the Lord was a myth and did nt exist and condenming the Old testamnet the word of God on Sinai.

Egads, man! Punctuation REALLY helps! And "......." does not count.

On topic, I never knew much about Gnostism. Quite interesting.

[Mithrea]

Originally posted by jcldragon

While there were some nutters like the Gnostic group who believed that having babies was a sin, because it was bringing a soul into this awful world, (Any questions on why they died out?), there is a great deal in Gnosticism that shows that they were attempting to incorporate the teachings of the Mystery Schools into Christianity.

Nutters? :rolleyes:

There are many people who believe the same thing that aren't Gnostics. Who are you to call them "nutters" for their personal beliefs? Many Gnostics believe that the demiurge (that evil God mentioned above) created man for the sole purpose of feeding off of thier worship of him. That's why bringing a child into the world (read: another person to worship the demiurge) would be a bad thing. It's not because they are "nutters."

[Xander67]

demiurge.. yes that is the name given to the GOD

it is very interesting even though as time rolled on, it branched out...

the whole concept was that anything that was created is evil. we are evil, anything we make or do is evil, because it is done here on a material plane... its really thought provoking...

eh, alot of the teachings and theology that was taught in the mystery schools, actually are part of the roots of christianity,,

example
John 10:36 I am the son og GOD
PDM XX.33 "I am the son of the living GOD"

PDM is one of the sacred Hermetic Papyri,

also, there are alot of Parralells between the Life of Christ and that of a Magus or Magi, look at the Baptism, a dove was seen decending unpon him. In one of the Operations that an initate of Hermetic system performed, he was to blindfold himself and go to the roof of his house, and as a sign, a bird would drop a small stone. This was a sign to verify that he was "With spirit"

I think Christianity is begining to undergo a re-awakening of its original theology and Philosophy, (This is my theory)

[Elethia Xyliana]

MM,

I have been looking into Gnosticism for a bit now. Of course one of my first efforts was to get a precise definition of it. I found a good web site,

http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/philosophia/gnosis.htm

Where one can find this. "Gnosticism has no strict, hierarchical organization or statement of doctrines. Rather, it is more of a ‘Way’ or process of approaching spirituality, and each Gnostic has their own path to take. "

Could on safely describe ones self as a "Gnostic Pagan"??????

I'd would really like some feed back on this....

BB

Elethia

[Xander67]

yeah, Im reading Stephen FLowers's book on the Hermetic systems, it has a really good section on Gnosticism as well

[Prudence Rose]

I'm half gnostic. a good book to read on it is Sylvia Brown's "the nature of good and evil". Gnostics still believe That Jesus was the son of God. Which, really we all are except god did not implant us i someones whom without an earth father. The Gnostics Believe in the Mother aspect of God as they do the Father. And in actuallity, the Gnosticism I am aware of we are brought here for a reason. it is not a sin to bring a child into this world. we are meant to come here. This is where our souls are tested. If we can live in this world of sin and still die as good people we are truely worthy of living in Heaven. And there are alsp some souls who are reffere to as Mystical Travelers who are souls that have a covenant with God to do God's bidding whenever he needs them. they are carnated and sent to Earth when the world gets chaotic. they are sent to help others. They are given certain gifts that seperate them from others such as some psychic abilities and great intellengence. they also feel homesick quite often (homesick being Heaven) and miss their loved ones on the other side who have not been reincarnated at the same time. As a matter of fact, I show the signs of being one.

[Xander67]

sounds a bit similar to symptoms of a "Walk in" a person who has been entered by an extra-terrestrial spirit (a 4th dimensional being perhaps)

also i see a similarity in Hermeticism too :)

[Prudence Rose]

hermeracism? explain please. i have no clue what that is.

[Xander67]

Hermetic Theology is basicly a combination of ancient Egyptian and A host of other religions includeing Christianity..


also, there are alot of Parralells between the Life of Christ and that of a Magus or Magi, look at the Baptism, a dove was seen decending unpon him. In one of the Operations that an initate of Hermetic system performed, he was to blindfold himself and go to the roof of his house, and as a sign, a bird would drop a small stone. This was a sign to verify that he was "With spirit"

I think Christianity is begining to undergo a re-awakening of its original theology and Philosophy, (This is my theory)

[Prudence Rose]

that would probably be best. the religion's base has been tampered with so much since it started.

[Xander67]

that is a huge can of worms there heheh

but back on Gnosticism,

what complicates it even more, is that once you actually find a teacher, an element you can relate to... you study, you learn, then.. once you reach a certain level, you are encouraged to branch out on your own and form a new one, but at the core, Gnosticism has a common thread, Mithrea pretty much described the core of it! :)

[Prudence Rose]

hey, doesnt have to do with gnosticism, but could yo ucritique my work "MIsery " on the poetry forum please? thanks.

[Xander67]

ok I will have a peek

[Rain Gnosis]

Originally posted by Xander67
also i see a similarity in Hermeticism too :)

The Cicero's point out both Gnosticism and Hermeticism employ Platonic terminology, both believe in the existence of a transcendant Divine and lesser deities, both place emphasis on spiritual knowledge gained through gnosis, and union of the soul with the Divine. They point out Hermeticism places gnosis as a means to salvation, and stresses different teachings and philosophies, whereas to Gnostics gnosis is a result of salvation. The Hermeticists also believed that people could contemplate and start to comprehend God.

The Essential Golden Dawn, pg 23, Chic and Sandra Tabatha Cicero

[Sophia]

prudence rose :D i am so happy to find someone else that shares so many beliefs with me. i also belief Sylvia Browne i havent read the book you mentioned by her but i have read The Other Side and Back and another one i dont remember the exact name of it right now but it was the sequel to The Other Side and Back...actually she is the only reason why i ever discovered gnosticism. i really like her idea of the afterlife....although i dont know exactly how her ideas of it fit in exactly with gnosticism.

anyway in case anyone is interested www.gnosis.org is a good website for gnostic scriptures and beliefs.

[Prudence Rose]

thank you Sophia. if you would ever like to discuss Sylvia or whatever feel free to pm me.

[Xander67]

Rain, thanks so much for your post.

Ive been meaning to get the Cicero's Book but never got around to getting it, but now i will .. I liked that exerpt

[Illuminatus]

A lot of folks believe that the first Matrix movie is an allegory on Gnosticism. There is a lot of circumstancial evidence backing this up, not just in the plot of the movie. Keanu keeps disks in a book called "Simulation and Simulacrum", a book he was required to read before playing the part, which has a lot to say about both Gnostic philosophy and the concept of free will. The second movie, in my opinion, confirms this theory.

Do a google search on "The Gospel According To Neo" for more info. Also here is an article by the Straight Dope with some more details on this connection: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm

Enjoy!

- Illuminatus!

[Xander67]

an interesting point... thanks Ill