coven

[cosminv]

After some time away from the computer, I finally get back with some more questions about covens. I read all the materials downloaded until now and i didn't find the answer to the question: how a coven is born? Of course, people having same spiritual path and lots in common come together and form the coven, that is pretty evident :) . But how the coven works, for example in a ritual it is necessary to have the full coven always? Is 13 the maximum number of members? How the Hp and Hps are "elected"? I'm very interested in all informations regarded the creation and basic rules of a coven.
Bright blessings,
J.L. Picard

[Jenett]

First, let me recommend two books: one is "Covencraft" by Amber K. and the other is "Wicca Covens" by Judy Harrow. Both talk in depth about various issues involved in coven work. The first is a lot more focused on practical aspects, the second is more focused on different perspectives or ways to approach issues, and on group dynamics issues.

As far as how a coven is formed, it depends - and it also depends on the specific tradition, since some traditions in Wicca have specific requirements involved with leading a coven.

In some traditions, a coven is formed when a person or pair of people reach a certain level of training. They then split off (it's generally called hiving) sometimes with others from the original coven, and form their own group.

Different traditions have different practices about this - in some, you're expected to hive when you reach a certain point, in others you can but it's not required. Also, in different traditions, the point where you are considered able to start/lead your own group may be different.

In less formal situations, it's a matter of getting together a group of people who are interested in working together. Depending on your eventual goal, there are different ways to go about this - some people start by forming a study group, and then developing a closer-knit group over time, for example.

For most traditions, the coven can be varied in size - some trads do have preferences about an even gender balance or size, but you can find covens of three or four people or up to much larger sizes.

It turns out though, that 13 often ends up being the upper limit for a close-knit group. It turns out that 13 is about the number of people humans can comfortably maintain very close ties to in a given setting (after that, you start seeing fragmentation of the group into smaller groups, which often works fine in social situations or the workplace, but which is not good if you're trying to work as a single group for magic or ritual purposes.)

The group I work with currently has eight initiates involved, and another 5 current students (most of our rituals also often have guests or people who are interested in the group attending.)

It's not impossible for the HP and HPS to be elected or formally selected somehow, but this isn't the case in most covens - the two more common options are for an existing pair to form a group, or for the group to work by consensus ("Covencraft" explains a lot more about these).

The group I work in is definitely not a democracy - we certainly have a say in what goes on, and are asked for our opinions, but it's our HP and HPS who have the final say and make the final decisions. They get that power because we agree to work with them in that context - if they abused it, people might well go find another group to work with.

[Rainx]

One thing (and I think this is touched on in CovenCraft, which I love and also recommend) - it might be more logical for you to form a circle or grove for now. This would mean a group of people who work together in a less formal atmosphere - thus the trappings of hierarchy, rules, and so on, aren't so important. You might see if you can work together in ritual before you set up a formalized group such as a coven.

Essentially, you need to know you have people who can work together first and foremost. An established coven will often have that initiatory/outer circle period partially for that reason - to make sure someone new fits in with and can work well with that group. Sometimes energies are just not going to "fit" together nicely, or people will have differences. Better that it's recognized and dealt with rather then letting it fester and cause bigger problems.

[Nicodemusthorne]

I have found that any magik group will find its self with a member(s) that are there for purposes of abusing the group enviroment.

watch out ;)

[Jenett]

Nicodemusthorne:

That hasn't been my experience (I've been working with the group I'm now an initiate with for nearly 2 years) We are a teaching group, and there are some people the group isn't quite right for, but that's a very different situation.

My own observations are that within a reasonably well run group, the chances of having someone like that are roughly the same as in any other group (whether that's mainstream religion, a hobby or interest, a workplace) - certainly, they happen, and you should keep an eye out for them, but it's not, in my experience "One in every group"

It does remind me, however, to mention a very useful resource for group evaluation, specifically aimed at Wiccan groups - the Coven Abuse Self-Help Index. You can find it online at www.wyrdweavers.org/files/cashi.html - it provides detailed examples and notes on a variety of concerns and issues.

[Nicodemusthorne]

I just meant that from time to time, it comes up.

not that it is a constant universal thing or something.

:)