Bah!!!!!! Rant!!!!

[Danustouch]

Okay...this is going to be a pretty crazy rant. But..urgh..need to vent.

So..back in March, my former business partners "neice" and i discussed attending a large beltane festival in CT, where we could vend our wares. Originally, I said I didn't plan to attend, since it would be impossible to find a van/truck to take the stuff down there. The Neice, "R-" told me that she'd be happy to rent a mini suv, if she could get reduced, or free admission. Which, was worked out without a hitch. Meanwhile, someone else decided to go with us, thus, cutting the rental fee for the suv in thirds. So..financially, it really wasn't going to put a strain on anyone. And everything was looking good.

A couple weeks went bye, I spoke to R- once. She told me about a friend she'd once had, who did a spell to invoke someones karma on them. She asked what my opinion was..and said she thought it was absolutely ethically wrong. I said.."I don't know the details of what she did, or why, enough to come to a conclusion. But ..I can tell you that Magick isn't all white light, positivity, and fluffiness to me. There is a need for force sometimes, and we're allowed to protect ourselves, and try to make our lives as happy, and fulfilled, and free as possible. So.. there've been times I've done similar things. " and I went on to provide a couple of examples. Like placing wards in my home to protect against someone who was stalking me. If the person showed up, my wards would act no differen't than a pitbull guard dog. Sorry, but if I tell you to stay out of my home, and you show up there with the intent to harm..you're darn right I'd protect myself". Anyway...her reply to all that was..."But..that can take you to a baaaaaaaaaaaaadddddd place "

:rolleyes:

So...weeks go bye. No word from "R-"

Then, yesterday, her and her aunt show up to work on the website for the humane association, with John, and I ask R- "So...how much do me and my friend have to give you toward the rental suv?" and she says.."Actually, I am not going to be able to go..financial things have popped up". Two weeks away from Beltane. Thanks R-!

What bothered me, was that if it WAS financial reasons, she really should have let me know EARLIER so that I could have saved the money to go on my own, without running around like a chicken with my head cut off at the last minute. I told her this, and left the room, quite ticked off that she left me, and another person, AND the person running the event (who had slotted me in for teaching a class) flapping in the breeze.

While I was in the other room, she apparently told John..."The real reason I'm not going is that Jean scares me". I SCARE her?

I never once intimidated, or threaghtened her. I was always as nice as I could possibly be to her. I'd held my temper and my tongue more times than I could count while her aunt continued to give me the run around with this buisness..but...I scare her? I wracked my brain trying to figure out why. And then I remembered this conversation, about the uses of magick. I am almost POSITIVE that is what she meant, because she told john that "She felt like I was heading to a baaaaaaaaaaad place" and she didn't want to go there (almost an echo of the conversation we'd had on magick). Ummmmmmmm..okay..can we say FLUFF BUNNY!

I made it very clear. That i'm not the type to go around hexing, or attacking. But that sometimes, it is necessary to use force, in order to protect yourself, or your happiness. Reflections, Deflections, Wards, Banishments, etc. All necessary, at various times.

Im SOOOOOOOOOOO TICKED !

She's been Wiccan for TWO years, has read three scot cunningham books, and to SRW's, and still thinks that Wicca is about not harming a single thing ever in your entire life, or you're a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad witch. Sooooooooooooooo... UGH!

Fluffies!!!!!!! argggghhhhhhhhhh!!

[Garnet]

((Danus))
It sounds as if 'R-' hasn't studied enough or isn't serious enough. :rolleyes: Or that she may have other problems :2G: The extra SUV costs are a pain, but you might have a better time without her 'fluff'.

[WitchJezebel]

Sorry to hear about the bind "R" left you in; I'd be pretty pissed off too. I hope you can still get to CT for Beltaine without too much trouble - you go and have a great time and don't worry about Ms Fluffy; hopefully after some more experience she'll see things as they really are.

[Phoenix Blue]

Actually, in another year or so, she'll probably have moved off from Wicca to some New Age fad. :rolleyes: Flakes don't stay with one religion for very long - because they never seem to realize that what they're looking for, they will never find outside their own spirits. It's sad, but a lot of people just don't have any real intellectual or spiritual depth to speak of.

What would it take for you to still be able to go, Danu?

[Danustouch]

PB...

I think i'm still going to be able to go. The other person (the third person) and I may split it down the middle. I'm trying to find a differen't third now so we can split the fee in thirds, instead of half, which would really ease the financial load. But if it doesn't happen, we'll still do it. It will just be a much harder trip all around. Finances will be harder, plus, half the reason why three people would have been better, is so that neither one of us is stuck constantly manning the table :( It'll just be a little more difficult this way. But still "doable", I think :)

Thanks for asking.

Thanks guys. Good to know I'm not the only one who thinks a little more maturity and responsibility was called for in this situation :(

[MzNeko]

Sheesh! You think if somebody attacked her physically, she'd hit them back? :rolleyes:

Though, come to think of it, on another board there was a thread about self-defense and one of the other posters mentioned a class she'd taken. She said that the instructor asked how many of the students would be willing to blind or cripple their attacker - and she was the only one out of about thirty women to raise her hand!

The instructor said "Look, this guy is going to rape and murder you, NOW can you bring yourself to do it?" and apparently an awful lot of the ladies there still just couldn't bring themselves to hurt someone. :eek:

Feh. I am officially disgusted.

[Toad]

Originally posted by MzNeko

The instructor said "Look, this guy is going to rape and murder you, NOW can you bring yourself to do it?" and apparently an awful lot of the ladies there still just couldn't bring themselves to hurt someone. :eek:

MzNeko -

I too have seen this sentiment. My wife and I have had long discussions regarding this issue. In her case there is no doubt in my mind that she would allow someone to murder her before she would harm them. In her case this is a belief she holds in depths of her soul. On the same vein...where someone to attempt to harm one of our children I have little doubt that she could and would rip the person limb from limb.

Women truly are fascinating. =)

Sorry to stray off topic...

[*GrumpButt*]

Well I would do anything if someone was going to hurt me, or my daughter. I'd kill them if it came down to it...
Hey whatever, if someone is going to attack me they had better be ready for the fight of their life.

[Amulet]

Sometimes, Danustouch, I think the only criteria for being scary to others nowadays is having an independent mind & an opinion !!

(Just because people study something doesn't mean they have much common sense . )

I wonder what an "Are you scarey?" poll would come up with? I think I am scarey to some people. I have come to accept that I am not for everybody. I really don't care anymore ! If being non-scarey is being a doormat & never questioning popular thinking, hell with it.

Amulet

[MzNeko]

Originally posted by Toad

MzNeko -

I too have seen this sentiment. My wife and I have had long discussions regarding this issue. In her case there is no doubt in my mind that she would allow someone to murder her before she would harm them. In her case this is a belief she holds in depths of her soul. On the same vein...where someone to attempt to harm one of our children I have little doubt that she could and would rip the person limb from limb.

Women truly are fascinating. =)

Sorry to stray off topic...

Wow. That boggles my poor little mind. I just can't wrap my head around it. Though I think what really bugged me in the case I was going on about was that it was in a Self Defense class. I mean, if you just can't bring yourself to hurt the po' widdle wapist, why are you even bothering with a self defense class, the whole point of which is to hurt the other guy so you can get away?

I am glad to see in your wife's case that natural instincts would take over if anyone threatened/harmed the kids. :D That's part of the job of being Mom.

******

Now as to magical self defense, I just don't see any difference. You certainly shouldn't do harm without cause, but defending yourself is a good thing. So far as "being scary" goes, I don't get it.

Just for the sake of example, my husband is very strong and very agile. He has the ability to hurt people badly, and indeed would be willing to use that ability to defend himself or loved ones. In fact, he has used his ability to do so.

Do I fear him? Am I scared of him? Did I fear him when we were just friends? Hell no. Certainly he could do a great deal of damage to me should he choose to, but he wouldn't hurt someone who wasn't trying to hurt him first. Come to think of it, he's a Pagan, I'm not. Do I fear him putting an eeeeevil spell on me, or the neighbors for that matter? No. He has ethics about that sort of thing. Now if the neighbors were to hex us... :D

By the same token I have no idea why R- should fear Danustouch, a person who (from my limited observation) seems quite ethical and decent. Unless R- were seeking to do harm, it seems to me that she has nothing to fear.

Feh. Some people... :rolleyes:

[BeachWitch]

You know, I've come to the conclusion that a fluffy bunny is someone who wants to be wiccan, attend wiccan rituals, but they don't want to be a part of a coven or do any work in furthering their spiritual path.

Take for example the person who doesn't like heirarchical covens, or finds Gardnerian "Ceremonial Magick" too formal.

Nine times out of Ten, the person speaking doesn't know Ceremonial Magick from Ceremonial Monks. They couldn't identify an Alexandrian inspired ritual if it literally bit them in the behind.

They've never actually BEEN in a coven or group, but they heard a story about a friend's cousin's best friend's boyfriend's Aunt's Lover who had a really bad experience with a psychotic HPS who took medication for her Bi-Polar disorder and clung to Ceremonial Magick like it was a life raft in the wake of the Titanic, and since HE had a bad experience, then FOR SURE the Gardnerian Tradition, and anything remotely heirarchical is NOT for them.....
:rolleyes:

So, anyone who actually writes essays, completes projects in herbs, spell work or scrying, is considered "scarey". Or because they turn their assignments into a HPS and actually DISCUSS the work they are doing they are "sheep" or "followers" ... :rolleyes:

Goddess forbid you actually own a BoS that you created with your own hands!!

You know Danus, imagine for one moment this "R" witnessing you performing the LBRP, can you just see the sheer terror cross her face as she runs screaming from the room??

I don't have anything against Fluffies. It's when they bite us Witches when we put our hands out to pet them and teach them that pisses me off.

Who knew a bunny could have such sharp teeth??!! ;)

[Phoenix Blue]

Having owned a rabbit, I can tell you exactly how sheep their teeth are. :) They don't stop growing, either - which is why rabbits always have to chew on things.

But I digress. I can agree with some of what you're saying, BeachWitch, but not with this:


Take for example the person who doesn't like heirarchical covens, or finds Gardnerian "Ceremonial Magick" too formal.

Nine times out of Ten, the person speaking doesn't know Ceremonial Magick from Ceremonial Monks. They couldn't identify an Alexandrian inspired ritual if it literally bit them in the behind.

They've never actually BEEN in a coven or group, but they heard a story about a friend's cousin's best friend's boyfriend's Aunt's Lover who had a really bad experience with a psychotic HPS who took medication for her Bi-Polar disorder and clung to Ceremonial Magick like it was a life raft in the wake of the Titanic, and since HE had a bad experience, then FOR SURE the Gardnerian Tradition, and anything remotely heirarchical is NOT for them.....
I know enough about Ceremonial Magick to know that it's about as safe as performing rituals in a tinderbox. I've met a handful of Ceremonial Mages, and every single one of them has been messed-up in the head. This naturally has turned me off to learning anything substantial about CM. . . I remember learning the LBRP, but I've never actually practiced it.

And I don't like hierarchical covens, either. . . **shrugs** I wouldn't do anything to undermine one, I just wouldn't join it. And I don't see why there's necessarily a problem with wanting to just attend public rituals every now and then.

But I definitely take my spiritual grown seriously. Just because I don't turn in my work or share it with a designated HPS doesn't mean I don't. Maybe you aimed to smack down "fluff-bunnies," but I feel you ended up slapping Eclectics with some of this. **Wry smile** And do I need to mention, I'm Eclectic?

[BeachWitch]

Phoenix, dear, I hardly think you would go around telling witches they are scarey simply because they use protection spells.

And I did say "nine times out of ten", allowing room for the Eclectics who have learned, seen, decided, and moved on.
I specifically left room in my statement to comfortably change gowns or robes or what-not.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with only attending public rituals every once and again, but....
...attending and judging is just a little too much for me, and what I personally have seen among the Fluffy crowd.

Beside Phoenix, I've read your posts, and you can claim Eclectic, but you certainly migrate to the traditional side if you ask me. But this is a free country and you can call yourself what ever you please. In my experience, you are a well educated Eclectic, not the typical fly-by-night stereotype.

[Athena-Nadine]

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything, but those of us with bipolar disorder are rarely psychotic. That stereotype is insulting.

Sorry for going off topic for a minute...

[Phoenix Blue]

Originally posted by BeachWitch

Phoenix, dear, I hardly think you would go around telling witches they are scarey simply because they use protection spells.

And I did say "nine times out of ten", allowing room for the Eclectics who have learned, seen, decided, and moved on.
I specifically left room in my statement to comfortably change gowns or robes or what-not.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with only attending public rituals every once and again, but....
...attending and judging is just a little too much for me, and what I personally have seen among the Fluffy crowd.

Beside Phoenix, I've read your posts, and you can claim Eclectic, but you certainly migrate to the traditional side if you ask me. But this is a free country and you can call yourself what ever you please. In my experience, you are a well educated Eclectic, not the typical fly-by-night stereotype.
:p Flattery gets you everywhere. I figured that wasn't how you meant it. . . but I had to make sure. I've had more than a few "traditionalists" look down their noses at me before just because of the label.

No, the folks I'm talking about were scary, but it had nothing to do with how they cast circles of protection. More about how they act in every aspect of mundane life. :p

Incidentally, I don't attend public rituals anymore, though I still attend gatherings from time to time. And that's because the last ritual I attended raised practically no energy--which I felt was pathetic, given the 200-300 people in attendance for it.

[Xeen]

LOL

That's... pretty damn sad of her :-p

I wasn't aware that anybody felt like that though. O.o

[Sabrina]

Greetings Danu:

Don't you just get fed up at times with people (anybody...pagans included) that preport one thing and say something behind your back? Argggg.... Really irks me. I don't know much about this woman...but IF she had a problem with something you said...or something that you practice...wouldn't it have been better to come to you directly and try to talk to you about it? Instead...she made up some financial woes and left your trip in the dust and you holding the bag for all the expenses.
(shakes head) Really aggravating.

Personally, I think you're better off without her for your vendor booth. You're going to have a better time alone or with someone else than this backstabber. Funny how things actually DO work in our favor at times, and it just doesn't seem like it at the time.

As for someone as "fluffie"
(we really do need a new term, folks...we've beat this one to death LOL)
But - I've encountered much the same.....

Yeah...burn me at the stake...but I don't think its all white light. pink candles and yummy incense folks...
nope...
I believe in balance.
Had a similar conversation to yours once and it got back to me later "she scares me a little..." sorta thing. I laughed my ass off....went straight to the person having said it and asked her :
"I scare you? OMG>>> you've GOT to be kidding me???"
She said that she thought I might practice the "dark arts" along with being a witch...

(ahem)
I asked her a few straight forward questions as to where she learned to seperate like dirty laundry....
the good "magick" from the "dark arts" (what is this Harry Potter?)

funny thing....she really had no concrete answers...she could not explain even her OWN practice to herself openly...let alone me...her audience for conversation.

So Danu:
I don't know WHO the heck started this white light, fluff bunnie, yummmy incense and pink and purple this and that.....
but darlin...
let them live in their never-never land and pretend ALL the want to....
let em buy up every tool they can get their fingers typing on EBay and let em be the non-read, ineffective, Oooooo You Scare Meeeee's....

Theory is: SInce I believe in balance....we need the fluffs to BALANCE out the Real work....

I think of them as the marshmellows that happily float in my hot chocolate....
yummmmm

I believe in the principle of the rede...but Geebus folks...some people need to get a GRIP!

LMAO

[WandererInGray]

Originally posted by Nallia

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything, but those of us with bipolar disorder are rarely psychotic.

*grins and winks* Only when you have a pool stick in one hand, Sis. :smooch:

Seriously though, that's the truth.

Danus, I'm sorry to hear that. *makes face* I remember an indicent a while back where I'd met a girl once in an attempt to bring a circle together. (loaned her a book even, which I didn't get back :rolleyes:) And then when she talked to a friend of ours a couple weeks later had the stupidity to ask "I've been getting some negative vibes lately, have either of you been thinking mean things about me?"

*sheesh* I met the woman once and hadn't thought about her again until that moment.

*grins* I'll admit it upfront. I'm mean and scary when I have to be. And to make matters worse I seem like such a sweet girl. *flutters eyelashes* You just have to watch which switch gets flipped.

[BeachWitch]

Originally posted by Sabrina
As for someone as "fluffie"
(we really do need a new term, folks...we've beat this one to death LOL)
But - I've encountered much the same.....

Yeah...burn me at the stake...but I don't think its all white light. pink candles and yummy incense folks...
nope...
I believe in balance.
Had a similar conversation to yours once and it got back to me later "she scares me a little..." sorta thing. I laughed my ass off....went straight to the person having said it and asked her :
"I scare you? OMG>>> you've GOT to be kidding me???"
She said that she thought I might practice the "dark arts" along with being a witch...


My Goodness!! This was an EXCELLENT post!!! :D

I think the reason it seems as though "we" beat this thing to death is because of experiences like Danu's. It's REALLY disappointing to encounter on a personal level.

It hurts when you invest so much energy in a kinship that on the surface, and as far as YOU are concerned is more than superficial, as a beneficial friendship, only to discover that you've been pouring energy into a black hole.

In Danu's case, and many others, it went beyond emotion and ventured into the realms of monetary, and that is what is really frustrating. I think most of us have been there before and we don't like being sucked in over and over.

Unfortunately, the majority of us are so kind hearted we get "duped" more often than we like to admit.

Great post - really!!

[Danustouch]

Yeah..that's exactly my point, Sabrina. To me, Magick is balance. We can't walk around being happy go lucky, perfectly loving, and forgiving every minute...we need to be balanced. In nature, this is reflected, even in the fact that many traditions and pantheons have Gods and Goddesses who are thought of as distructive, mischevious, or what have you, reflects that.

This girl, is for the most part, an incredibly *sweet* girl. Now..I appreciate that quality in her...BUT...imo...she tries TOO hard to be perfectly sweet all the time. She doesn't understand that Anger has its place..of course, we shouldnt be angry ALL the time, and of course, we shouldn't "hold on" to anger indefinitely, but anger is also a face of nature, and the devine. So is protectiveness. Plus, quite honestly, I also do believe in some extent, that people have to be responsible for their actions, and deal with the consequences. Therefor, if someone comes after me, i'm going to send it back to them. Or..protect myself. And yes, i'll be angry. This girl is the type of person, who represses her emotions constantly. She says that she tries "Really hard" to overcome "anger". Now..to me, there is no sense in trying to repress emotions. Obviosly, we have to control them to SOME extent, but, if we're angry..we're not supposed to swallow it and do nothing... that's why the emotion is THERE. It serves a function.

To me, saying someone shouldn't ever get angry, and should learn to forgive easily and quickly, is not necessarily the way it should be. Yes..learn to control it, to channell it, or to deal with it appropriately, but..don't say there isn't ever a need or a use for it. Just like noone can tell me that there's never a time when you should do a "negative" spell.

To me, when the Rede says "Harm None" it also means "Yourself" we have an obligation to protect ourselves, to make our lives happy...that's the Charge to me. Bah..

I'm doing better now though, I think. Right now, I'm down at my Parents house visiting for a weekend. And it's actually been very relaxing this time around. I needed to get away from Rhode Island so badly.

I swear..there is something in the water up there. I've not met one person up there, who I could become close to. And yet, here, In CT I've always had tons of friends. It's not that I can't make, or maintain friendships..it's that honestly..i've met nothing but Kooks since moving to RI. So this break, from "R-" her Aunt, My husband, and the monotony of day to day living there has been great. A bit of a reality check :)