Lucid Dreaming

[Lucidia]

steps up on the soapbox

Ahem.. well... It has come to my attention that a lot of you wonderful people out there are interested in lucid dreaming. Well now... it just so happens that I have been studying said skill for years and years.

I have also been studying astral projection, dreamscaping, and a lot of deep meditation, healing, and energy manipulation techniques.

Since all of these things are somewhat related... I figured that I'd offer my knowledge to the community.

However, I think i'd like it most, if people would first share their experiences with the crowd, as well as ask questions and such. I think that after a while, the people that know about lucid dreaming and it's related "skills" could get togther and put together some really hardcore lessons on the subjects. I'd do it alone, but I think it will be more fun to have more than one view on it.

The thing about lucid dreaming is that what works for one person, may not work for another. Having more than just my input will increase the chances of people actually having a lucid dream.

I also must explain, that there are lot of steps you may have to take before reaching a level where lucid dreaming is possible. Others will excel at a rather fast rate. Everyone is different.

The first step to learn lucid dreaming is usually to start subconsiously programming yourself with "suggestions" such as "I will remember my dreams. When I see the color green in my dream, I will realize that I am dreaming." and when you wake up.. you should ALWAYS IMMEDIATELY write down your dreams (or record them on a tape if you aren't coherent enough to have legible handwriting upon waking up... either way, keep your medium of recording dreams right by your bed/wherever you sleep). The point isn't to try and be lucid at first.. but rather to at least try and start remembering your dreams... since a lot of people complain that they "don't dream" or that they never remember things... because they aren't clear.

Keep in mind that the more you convince yourself of something, it may become true (if you keep saying "i'm gonna get sick" you might just get sick... the mind is a strong force)

Even if you don't have a lucid dream, you should record your dreams... and when you do have a lucid dream, it's important to record when you became lucid and try to remember what triggerd this lucidity.

So on that note... I'd love to hear anyone experiences with dream recollection, dream recording, lucid dreaming, and even any related things... like perhaps a time when you made yourself dream about something with pre-sleep suggestive techniques.

Also.. i'd love to get into dream related divination (which I guess, if people want to talk in depth about it, would go into the divination forum), since a lot of you have dreams that happen (as do I... ). I have a lot of theory on that stuff... and I'd love to share it.

So on with the discussion!!!

hands the mic to the crowd and steps off the box

[BearDancing]

Lucidia, what is the difference between lucid dreaming and a vision. To me a vision is when I am awake, yet in a different state of consciousness, it is alot like a dream yet you are awake.

I close my eyes and can be there in seconds.

Thanks for you input, Fairie

[Lucidia]

Lucidia, what is the difference between lucid dreaming and a vision.

I guess the best way i could describe this as... is that dreaming is basically your mind functioning without the distractions that need to be processed while you are awake. Some people (and i have MANY visionaries in my "family", and I am one myself) can tap into their subconsious more easily/randomly than others. visions are a lot like dreams... although i would think that dreams are much more random. You can have visions in dreams, but dreaming usually requires being asleep, since if your brain was experiencing the energy patterns that you have when you dream while you were awake, you would probably say things and do things that didn't make sense a lot (my husband has narcolepsy, which basically has come to the point where he isn't awake, but seems to be awake sometimes... so he'll say or do things that aren't logical because he is in fact dreaming while he's awake).

Dreams and visions can both be very prophetic... and very important to record and analyze.

Lucid dreaming is primarily forcing your conscious mind to merge with your subconsious while in a deep sleep state. Your subconsious is for the most part, not a controlled set of thoughts and functions. However, lucid dreaming allows you to make a bridge between the two, allowing you to 'access the files' in your subconscious, while using your conscious ability to control thoughts to control your dream (dreams being subconsious thought patterns to begin with). Visions can be controlled(in the way of stopping a vision or perhaps forcing yourself to see something).. i suppose... but lucid dreaming doesn't mean that you are having any significant dream at all. visions tend to mean something more significant, since your subconsious is forcing you to see something while you are in a physical state that wouldn't normally allow such "sight".

For the most part... lucid dreaming allows you to control your dreams and in later stages of advancement, travel through subconsious mind and even change things about yourself (help get rid of phobias, trauma, bad memories.... etc... although it's REALLY dangerous and you should practice for a LONG time before attempting to alter your subconsious mind). visions are usually just like meaningful dreams that may come at random times, and therefore, you should simply observe and record, rather than possibly alter the visions meaning by trying to control it.

I'm not sure if any of that made sense at all... 8O

[loopy]

I think this is an awesome idea. :)

I don't have anything else to add to the discussion right now. :D

[BearDancing]

I guess I did not know what lucid dreaming was then. I am going to look up what state of consciouness deep sleep is. You know Alpha, Thayta spelling wrong.

I find different levels of consciousness very interesting. I can not add to lucid dreaming thread though.

Another question. You know when you dream and you are in such a state of total fear that your body feels parlazied what is you thoughts on that.

I was wondering, I beleive that your spirit leaves your body when in deep sleep, that is when it is recharged energy wise from the universe. Do you think that it might be that you are starting to wake up(change level of consciousness) and your spirit has not yet returned to your body, therefore rendering yourself in a state of paralasys. Not being aware of what is happening you feel intense fear.

Let me know your thoughts.

Maybe I will start a thread on the different levels of consciousness

[Amethyst Rose]

I may be wrong, but.....

I heard from somewhere that when a person is in deep (REM) sleep, the body goes into to a semi-paralysis state to protect itself from harm from moving around too much, and from expending energy from such movements.
Therefore....when you have a bad dream and you can't move, it's because you're body is still in that paralysis state... you need to wake up more fully to get your brain to snap out of it.

[Emerald Sky]

Great thread! Lucidia, I have all kinds of questions and things to relate about my dream habits. I'm able to control what happens in my dreams... that's what lucid dreaming is right? My dreams are also prophetic very often.

What is dreamscaping? I have something that happens related to my dreams that I've always called dreamscaping, but that was just the name I made up a long, long time ago. I didn't know there really was something by that name. Can you tell me more about it?

[Lucidia]

You know when you dream and you are in such a state of total fear that your body feels parlazied what is you thoughts on that.

Hmm... Well... I suppose it's all related to the fact that when you are in deep sleep, almost all of your body functions are involintary (cardiac/circulatory and pulmonary function, digestive and renal functions, and of course brain functions).

When you are IN the dream and you feel unable to move... this is usually a symbolic thing... it can sometimes mean that you are 'stuck' in a certain part of your life, or a certain situation (bad relationship, dead end job, a class in school you don't enjoy), or it can imply that you need to move forward in life, but you seem to be afraid to take the steps needed to made advancement. It can also be symbolic of being up against really bad odds, and fear is a mixed feeling... it gives you energy to run or fight... it can make you very observative, or so scared that you miss things...

Dream interpretation is a HUGE subject as well... ;) I've been working on it for years... i'm pretty good with straight logic interpretations... and with some effort... and I pull some hidden meaning out of the logic as well...


Do you think that it might be that you are starting to wake up(change level of consciousness) and your spirit has not yet returned to your body, therefore rendering yourself in a state of paralasys. Not being aware of what is happening you feel intense fear.

Hmm... now this is another deal entirely. There is a process called dreamscaping (that i will deal with in a moment), where you consious life energy leaves your body and can travel anywhere it pleases. Basically, if you were doing this.. consiously or unconsiously... and your body was woken up for some reason... the best thing i can say... is that you'd experience REALLY bad pain... it hurts having your life energy ripped back into your body... not fun.. not fun at all... :crazy:

I like your theory... it's interesting... I can't say i personally agree.. but it's definitely an interesting view of what happens to our energy when we dream. I personally would say in that situation... it's more likely that your REM sleep was interrupted... and it takes a few seconds for your brain to rearrange the consious and subconsious thoughts, and when you immediately wake, you can't move since you were paralyzed in the dream.

I had a dream once.. that my arm got cut off in a battle with this strange creature... Now i have to admit.. i encounter my share of bad guys here and there because of my astral practices... but whether this shadow thing was an invader in my dream or something i created in my mind... i woke up with no feeling in my arm (and it wasn't asleep... it was energetically dead). I couldn't channel energy into it for weeks... there are very strange connections between the mental and the physical worlds indeed. What happens in dreams can temporarily carry forward into your waking life.

I would think that your spirit IS your consiousness... (explaning how reincarnation would work.. since your memories and whatnot would be transfered through your spirit/soul), and in that case... you wouldn't be able to wake up unless you were back in your body. I have talked to quite a few people that have experienced this "waking up unable to move" phenomenon... and I have to say i'm not sure i'm fully ready to make a valid hypothesis on it... but its a great thing to bring up... since now I'm gonna ponder over it...


I heard from somewhere that when a person is in deep (REM) sleep, the body goes into to a semi-paralysis state to protect itself from harm from moving around too much, and from expending energy from such movements.

Well... when you are in deep sleep.. your voluntary functions (like moving limbs and turning and tossing as your body needs to adjust position due to circulation problems and muscle tension) are usually suspsended. I suppose this would be a state of semi-paralysis. I think it's partically because this is the part of sleep that actually rests you. your body slows down considerably... although your mind seems to speed up. you have intense dreams, in my opinion, because your brain isn't occupied with semi-consious thoughts (like moving, walking, talking, paying attention to things in the waking world).


Therefore....when you have a bad dream and you can't move, it's because you're body is still in that paralysis state... you need to wake up more fully to get your brain to snap out of it.

If you come out of REM sleep, it's quite feasable that your brain is catching up with your state of consiousness... and that for a moment or two.. you may be unable to move as your mind still thinks your asleep *subconsious*, but your consious mind woke you up (violent/scary dreams have been shown to raise heart rate and blood pressure to dangerous levels).


I'm able to control what happens in my dreams... that's what lucid dreaming is right? My dreams are also prophetic very often.

yes, that's exactly what lucid dreaming is... and actually... being able to control them is a step INTO lucid dreaming.. since lucid dreaming from a technical perspective, could be viewed as simply being aware that you are dreaming...
But... Good for you! You are already accomplishing what many people may never be able to!
And my dreams are prohpetic all the time... but that's a talk for another post... ;)

What is dreamscaping?
Dreamscaping is the practice of leaving your body during lucid dreaming. While dreamscaping.. you can theoretically travel to other people's dreams, or simply travel the astral plane. There is a lot of information to talk about with dreamscaping.. but a lot of it is heavily related to "personal interpretation of the astral plane", as much of the explanation of how to do things astrally is by using visual imagery, and not everyone 'sees' astrally the same way... I hope i explained enough about what it "is" to clear up your previous confusion.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[loopy]

I tried doing the whole psyching myself into knowing I was dreaming routine, but it didn't work as far as I can remember. I did write down my dream just now-- but I think I missed a few dreams, since I kept waking up and then falling asleep to different ones, and I only recorded the last one. I don't usually have a problem remembering my dreams.


like perhaps a time when you made yourself dream about something with pre-sleep suggestive techniques.

I just saw this from your first post. :) I've done this a few times. Heh, this is going to be embarrassing to write, but usually if I had been watching some TV couple, and I was thinking about what I wanted to happen for them, I would will myself to play out an episode in my dreams, and usually it works. That's why my old dream diaries are so full of Buffy the Vampire Slayer dreams, lol. :D

I have a question--have you ever dreamscaped yourself? If so, what's it like?

[Lucidia]

have you ever dreamscaped yourself? If so, what's it like?

yup. It's interesting. If you know another person that can lucid dream or possibly dreamscape, you can dream "with" them by going into their dream. Basically... imagine an endless hallway with doors on both sides. Each door is a persons mind... and you basically can tell who's door is which by either a picture, or a name, or a symbol particular to that person (it's different for each person.. as I mentioned, all people percieve the astral in a differnt way, since it's not actually something physical.. it's a place of energy that we need to put into images and words in order to comprehend them properly), and you try to open it (if they aren't asleep, then the door won't open) and it opens, you enter their dream.

however... a lot of my friends have gone into people's dreams who they didn't know/warn beforehand and gotten their butts kicked. The problem can be, that say you want to go into the dream of some famous person (or a secret crush, or a random person) you know of and always wanted to meet... you go into their dream... and perhaps... they are lucid too(or even not in some cases).. and they might consider you a threat and hurt you(since they can control their dream), and also.. if someone wakes up and you are in their dream... you get PAINFULLY ripped back into your consiousness (it really hurts... and you end up with a hangover like headache all day)..

It's a cool thing to do... and as another note... it's a lot easier to have full astral "out of body" type of experiences from lucid dreams since once again, you aren't having conscious awake type distractions. But that's just my opinion... and It's horribly dangerous and i don't recommend it.

I hope that answered that one!:) :)

[loopy]

Yep, definitely answered that one, thanks. :) Nuts, I was all psyched to have all-night conversations with my best friend in our dreams, but oh well. ;)

[random]

on dreamscaping- Are you able to control anything in that other person's dream? (As in they are a "weak" person and they do not have much control over anything?)

Could very strong visualization be considered lucid dreaming if you exhaust yourself enough that the vis keeps going while you sleep (from the point you stopped)? [I doubt that makes sence]

I used to "not dream" because I couldnt "see" anything in my dreams. But, then I grew open minded and I can make anything happen. And "see" anything.

To control my dreams I usually visualize before i sleep, and then I remember what I visualized. I can also control them just by thinking of what I want to dream. (Usually, I wake up thinking it was reality)

I have not waken up to having unable to move limbs or whatnot.

I might try dreamscaping tonight with my neighbor.. (ill talk to him first)

[loopy]

Grr. How bout a way to drag one's lazy rear out of bed right after they wake up, so they don't fall asleep a million times after and lose half the details in their dream? Grrr.

[Lucidia]

Nuts, I was all psyched to have all-night conversations with my best friend in our dreams, but oh well.
Give it time, it's better to learn more about it, and become a more skilled lucid dreamer and allow your friend to do the same, than to rush things and possibly end up in some kind of trouble.


Are you able to control anything in that other person's dream?
Yes, it's possible, but it's usually not a very nice thing to do... unless they're attempting to attack you... or they are OK with you being there and you want to control their dream since they can't... i don't suggest using it in any negative ways (not that you were planning on it)


Could very strong visualization be considered lucid dreaming if you exhaust yourself enough that the vis keeps going while you sleep (from the point you stopped)?
Hmm... do you mean, perhaps, that you are forcing a vision.. and then you fall asleep and you are then lucid enough to continue forcing the vision? i suppose so.. that's a bit confusing. I would think perhaps.. it's more along the lines of... you dream about whatever you were intently envisioning before you fell asleep, and if you happen to be lucid, then you can continue to force the vision, but just because the same subject matter continues won't necessarily mean that you can control it anymore, it may just continue on its own.

To control my dreams I usually visualize before i sleep, and then I remember what I visualized. I can also control them just by thinking of what I want to dream. (Usually, I wake up thinking it was reality)
That is definitely the way to lucid dream alright... Thats one of the most frequently documented techniques to induce a lucid dream. and it's normal to sometimes feel like it was very real... it's also normal to not feel AS rested because you were semi-consious throughout all your dream sequence time.


I might try dreamscaping tonight with my neighbor.. (ill talk to him first)
Good idea (about talking to him first), it's very important that you attempt to 'warn' the person first.. as invading someone's mind (and perhaps accidentally their subconsious) is REALLY dangerous... and if they are aware beforehand they probably won't accidentally hurt you or themselves in any sort of panic.

Grr. How bout a way to drag one's lazy rear out of bed right after they wake up, so they don't fall asleep a million times after and lose half the details in their dream? Grrr.
well.... you just need to keep telling yourself:

"I will remember my dreams..."
"When i wake up.. i will immediately record my dreams..."

And stuff of that nature... and eventually you will program your mind to not only remember but record those remembered dreams upon waking.

[random]

(not that you were planning on it)

i was just wondering.



That is definitely the way to lucid dream alright...

ok. Can you give me more examples of lucid dreaming? Or ways to lucid dream?

[Lucidia]

i figure that I've been asking specific questions for a while now.. i think I am gonna just start posting specific "lessons" regarding lucid dreaming now... cause that way i can cover everything one topic at a time, instead of jumping around all the time... but if you have a specific question.. please feel free to still ask.

next post will be "What is Lucid Dreaming?"

[Lucidia]

yes.. well what exactly IS Lucid Dreaming ???

I know i covered it before.. but I went to another source for more of a textbook explanation:

thanks to www.lucidity.com for all the italicized references in this post and posts to come


Lucid dreaming means dreaming while knowing that you are dreaming. The term was coined by Frederik van Eeden who used the word "lucid" in the sense of mental clarity. Lucidity usually begins in the midst of a dream when the dreamer realizes that the experience is not occurring in physical reality, but is a dream. Often this realization is triggered by the dreamer noticing some impossible or unlikely occurrence in the dream, such as flying or meeting the deceased. Sometimes people become lucid without noticing any particular clue in the dream; they just suddenly realize they are in a dream. A minority of lucid dreams (according to the research of LaBerge and colleagues, about 10 percent) are the result of returning to REM (dreaming) sleep directly from an awakening with unbroken reflective consciousness.
The basic definition of lucid dreaming requires nothing more than becoming aware that you are dreaming. However, the quality of lucidity can vary greatly. When lucidity is at a high level, you are aware that everything experienced in the dream is occurring in your mind, that there is no real danger, and that you are asleep in bed and will awaken shortly. With low-level lucidity you may be aware to a certain extent that you are dreaming, perhaps enough to fly or alter what you are doing, but not enough to realize that the people are dream representations, or that you can suffer no physical damage, or that you are actually in bed.


Now.. i suppose that made sense to some people.. but let me clarify some stuff in case it flew over anyone's heads (it sort of flew over mine, and i've been reading up on this stuff for years)

yes, lucid dreaming isn't EXACTLY controlling your dreams (covered in the next quote), it's simply being aware that you are dreaming. It can be triggered randomly, or on purpose. When lucid.. you can either be very lucid, and realize that you can change anything you want, or simply realize that nothing can harm you and that you are gonna wake up soon.. or if you aren't very lucid.. you still might be frightened by any danger in the dream... and you might not keep in mind that you are gonna wake up perfectly fine in a little while.

That's pretty much all that said... but i guess some people like the fancy definition/explanation. Just wanted to start going over the basics... now on to the next point:


Lucidity is not synonymous with dream control. It is possible to be lucid and have little control over dream content, and conversely, to have a great deal of control without being explicitly aware that you are dreaming. However, becoming lucid in a dream is likely to increase the extent to which you can deliberately influence the course of events. Once lucid, dreamers usually choose to do something permitted only by the extraordinary freedom of the dream state, such as flying.

You always have the choice of how much control you want to exert. For example, you could continue with whatever you were doing when you became lucid, with the added knowledge that you are dreaming. Or you could try to change everything--the dream scene, yourself, other dream characters. It is not always possible to perform "magic" in dreams, like changing one object into another or transforming scenes. A dreamer's ability to succeed at this seems to depend a lot on the dreamer's confidence. As Henry Ford said, "Believe you can, believe you can't; either way, you're right." On the other hand, it appears there are some constraints on dream control that may be independent of belief.


Basically... Just because you are lucid doesn't mean you can control your dreams... and being able to control your dreams doesn't mean that you are aware you are actually dreaming... But it will greatly help you control your dreams IF you are actually aware you are dreaming. And just because you are lucid and controlling your dream... sometimes a lack of faith in yourself (or a lack of faith that you are indeed just dreaming) will keep you from actually exerting the amount of control over your situation as you'd like... so faith is key here. But being that dreaming is a temporary state.. and you can pretty much only work with knowledge that you are already aware of, there are still limits to what you can do (just because you can fly in a dream when you normally can't, you won't "magically" be able to dream the access codes to some secret government database just because you can control most of your surroundings... etc)

Next Lesson (after questions and such) will be:

HOW ARE LUCID DREAMS RELATED TO OUT-OF-BODY EXPERIENCES (OBEs)?

[MistOfTheSea86]

There is a great no wonderful, no fantastic site on Lucid Dreaming called Sprit Online. www.spiritonline.com Go there and go under dreams. It has all the information you'll ever need. Ever, ever, ever. GO and tell me what you think. I am sure that you'll find it to your liking

[loopy]

Thanks for the link. :) I need my dream guide in small doses, though. I have a short attention span. :D Thanks for the lesson, Lucidia. Is it still okay to ask questions while you teach? That aren't directly related to the subject? I just had one that I can't get out of my head.

Last night I dreamed something that so upset me that I woke up and realized that, like in my dream, my physical self was crying as well. It's not the first time it happened. I was just wondering technically why that happens, and if something like crying can actually project itself into physicality, is there any truth to that old 'If you die in your dream, you die in reality' rumor? I don't see how that could happen, unless maybe you had a heart attack from something that frightened you in your dream. But hmm. Is this too Off Topic? You just seem like the dream expert; figured I'd take a shot. :)

[Emerald Sky]

Originally posted by loopy
Last night I dreamed something that so upset me that I woke up and realized that, like in my dream, my physical self was crying as well. It's not the first time it happened. I was just wondering technically why that happens, and if something like crying can actually project itself into physicality, is there any truth to that old 'If you die in your dream, you die in reality' rumor?

Well, it hasn't happened to me yet. I've died a few times in my dreams... or I've been dead in my dreams, and as far as know, I'm not actually dead... although I sometimes feel like it in the morning. :D

I've also woken up crying b/c I was crying in my dream many times. Even better, though, is waking yourself up b/c you're LAUGHING in your dream and in real life! :D Have you ever done that loopy?

[loopy]

Yup. :) And then there were times when I was saying something in my dreams, wound up waking up and saying it aloud instead. Takes me a sec to realize I'm actually awake. :D

[Lucidia]

well as far as waking up in the same state you were in dreaming... remember that when you are crying/laughing.. this is a reaction to something your brain is processing... sometimes.. when the dream seems really real... your body might react as well as your mind... as you were probably really close to waking up... it's the same with saying/yelling something and then waking up saying or yelling that same thing... if you are close to waking.. and still dreaming very heavily.. there is a big chance that everything will cross over as you mind percieves the dream to actually be you awake... (since you'll be awake any second now and your brain is restoring control to the conscious side of your mind)
and yeah.. i've seen that website already.. but thanks for the info. I figure i'll run through the FAQ from lucidity.com for now... but later on i may have to use other sources, like that one, so thanks for sharing it with me, i forget stuff all the time so reminders are great.

And yes, you can still ask specific questions.... of course.

[Lucidia]

HOW ARE LUCID DREAMS RELATED TO OUT-OF-BODY EXPERIENCES (OBEs)?

A mysterious and highly controversial phenomenon sometimes occurs in which people experience the compelling sensation that they have somehow "left their bodies." The "out-of-body experience" or "OBE", as this fascinating phenomenon is usually termed, takes a variety of forms. In the most typical, you are lying in bed, apparently awake, when suddenly you experience a range of primarily somatic sensations, often including vibrations, heaviness, and paralysis. Then you experience the vivid sensation of separating from your "physical body" in what feels like a second body, often floating above the bed.

It is important to note the distinction between the phenomenal reality of the OBE and the various interpretations of the experience. What is really happening when you feel yourself "leaving your body"? According to one school of thought, what is actually happening is just what it feels like: you are moving in a second body out of and away from your physical body--in physical space. But this "explanation" doesn't hold up very well under examination. After all, the body we ordinarily feel ourselves to be (or if you like, to inhabit) is a phenomenal or mental body rather than a physical body. The space we see around us is not physical space as "common sense" tells us, but as modern psychology makes clear, a phenomenal or mental space. In general, our consciousness is a mental model of the world.

OBE enthusiasts promote lucid dreaming as a "stepping stone" to the OBE. Conversely, many lucid dreamers have had the experience of feeling themselves "leave the body" at the onset of a lucid dream. From a laboratory study, we have concluded that OBEs can occur in the same physiological state as lucid dreams. Wake-initiated lucid dreams (WILDs) were three times more likely to be labeled "OBEs" than dream initiated lucid dreams. If you believe yourself to have been awake, then you are more likely to take the experience at face value and believe yourself to have literally left your physical body in some sort of mental or "astral" body floating around in the "real" physical world. If, on the other hand, you think of the experience as a dream, then you are likely to identify the OBE body as a dream body image and the environment of the experience as a dream world. The validity of the latter interpretation is supported by observations and research on these phenomena.



now basically... all this is saying.. is that lucid dreaming is a step to out of body experiences... or as i would percieve them... astral projection sessions. Which astrally projecting.. there is a rather nifty skill called "remote veiwing" which allows you to view things that are far away, or simply something in the "real" world that is beyond your reach at the moment. it's not failsafe... and if you try to use it for selfish means, you negativity usually clouds your vision... but anyways....

Although you can definitely lucid dream and then astrally project/initiate an out of body experience, I think that you might possibly remember less... and eventaully lose lucidity and perhaps think the whole thing was a dream anyway... so if you need to project for a very important reason... i would suggest learning to do so while awake... harder as it may be... you'll remember more of your experience, unless you're an EXPERT with dream recall.

Next Lesson: Why have Lucid Dreams?

[BearDancing]

I do not remember my dreams too often, probably because it is not a focus of mine as of yet....I have experiemented with astral projection....is that the same os OBE. I went to my mothers and my grandmothers bedside just to see if all was okay and to see if I could do it.

Do you know anything about shapeshifting? I think that there is 2 kinds, when you shape shift to the animal/bird in a dream or vision type consciousness and then the physical shape shifting on a very conscious in this time and space. I have no experience with the physical shape shift in this time and space but I beleive I have in dream/vision state of consciousness.

What are your views on shapeshifting?

[Lucidia]

What are your views on shapeshifting?

well... it just so happens that I tripped over some related information a few years back...

If you've ever happened to read the works of Carlos Castaneda (he wrote a bunch of books about his "adventures" with this Juan Matos guy that taught him stuff about hallucinatory plants and related stuff), there is this point made, about how some people could 'shapeshift', because they "believed" that they had become this new animal/thing/person. It's deeper than that.. i suppose i should look it up... *makes a note to do a bit of research on it*

Now personally... i don't give a whole lot of credit to people who wrote books while under the influence of hallucinagens... but perhaps there is some truth to it.. perhaps not.

I don't actually have a real opinion on the matter, as I can't say it can or cannot happen.

As far as dreams... I assume that shapeshifting in a dream would definitely be a very symbolic happening. I believe its' very possible, as almost everything is possible in dreams. it you can think it, you can dream it.

I have experiemented with astral projecion....is that the same os OBE. I went to my mothers and my grandmothers bedside just to see if all was okay and to see if I could do it.
Well... what you did is called "remote viewing". I suppose the difference between an OBE and astral projection, is that an OBE is for the most part projection of your life and consiousness energy into the physical world, and astral projection is just that.. projecting yourself into the astral plane. Now they are both very much the same, and can be shared experiences. The important skill here is being about to 'disconnect' your consiousness and energy from your physical body with enough actual separation that you can travel through either plane of exisitence, and still be connected to your body strongly enough that you dont' lose connection and your body dies. (it's REALLY hard to do that... so don't get terribly worried or scared, it's actually very easy to lose astral projected "status" from being distracted at the body level, since you are in a sense, splitting your consiousness.

[Lucidia]

WHY HAVE LUCID DREAMS?

Upon hearing about lucid dreaming for the first time, people often ask, "Why should I want to have lucid dreams? What are they good for?" If you consider that once you know you are dreaming, you are restricted only by your ability to imagine and conceive, not by laws of physics or society, then the answer to what lucid dreaming is good for is either extremely simple (anything!) or extraordinarily complex (everything!). It is easier to provide a sample of what some people have done with lucid dreaming than to give a definitive answer of its potential uses.

Adventure and Fantasy

Often, the first thing that attracts people to lucid dreaming is the potential for wild adventure and fantasy fulfillment. Flying is a favorite lucid dream delight, as is sex. Many people have said that their first lucid dream was the most wonderful experience of their lives. A large part of the extraordinary pleasure of lucid dreaming comes from the exhilarating feeling of utter freedom that accompanies the realization that you are in a dream and there will be no social or physical consequences of your actions. One might think that this is a rather intellectual concept, but an ecstatic "rush" frequently arises with the first realization that one is dreaming.

Overcoming Nightmares

Unfortunately for many people, instead of providing an outlet for unlimited fantasy and delight, dreams can be dreaded episodes of limitless terror. As is discussed in the books Lucid Dreaming (LaBerge, 1985) and Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming (EWLD) (LaBerge & Rheingold, 1990), lucid dreaming may well be the basis of the most effective therapy for nightmares. If you know you are dreaming, it is a simple logical step to realizing that nothing in your current experience, however unpleasant, can cause you physical harm. There is no need to run from or fight with dream monsters. In fact, it is often pointless to try, because the horror pursuing you was conceived in your own mind, and as long as you continue to fear it, it can pursue you wherever you dream yourself to be. The only way to really "escape" is to end your fear. (For a discussion of reasons for recurrent nightmares, see Overcoming Nightmares from EWLD.) The fear you feel in a nightmare is completely real; it is the danger that is not.

Unreasonable fear can be defused by facing up to the source, or going through with the frightening activity, so that you observe that no harm comes to you. In a nightmare, this act of courage can take any form that involves facing the "threat" rather than avoiding it. For example, one young man dreamt of being pursued by a lion. When he had no place left to run, he realized he was dreaming and called to the lion to "come and get him." The challenge turned into a playful wrestling match, and the lion became a sexy woman (NightLight 1.4, 1989, p. 13). Monsters often transform into benign creatures, friends, or empty shells when courageously confronted in lucid dreams. This is an extremely empowering experience. It teaches you in a very visceral manner that you can conquer fear and thereby become stronger.

Rehearsal

Lucid dreaming is an extraordinarily vivid form of mental imagery, so realistic that the trick is to realize it is a mental construct. It is no surprise, therefore, that many people use lucid dreaming to rehearse for success in waking life. Examples of such applications include public speaking, difficult confrontations, artistic performance and athletic prowess. Because the activity of the brain during a dreamed activity is the same as during the real event, neuronal patterns of activation required for a skill (like a ski jump or pirouette) can be established in the dream state in preparation for performance in the waking world. See EWLD for examples.

Creativity and Problem Solving

The creative potential of dreams is legendary. The brain is highly active in REM sleep and unconstrained by sensory input, which together may contribute to the novel combinations of events and objects we experience as dream bizarreness. This same novelty allows thought to take on forms that are rare in waking life, manifesting as enhanced creativity, or defective thinking depending on one's point of view (As Roland Fisher put it, "One man's creativity is another's brain damage."). The claim of enhanced creativity of the dream state is supported by LI research: One study found word associations immediately after awakening from a dream to be 29% more likely to be uncommon compared to word associations later in the day (NightLight, 6.4, 1994). Another study comparing a variety of kinds of experience including daydreams, memories of actual events, and dreams, found that dreams were judged as being significantly more creative than both daydreams and memories (NL, 4.1, 1992). In any case, many lucid dreamers report using dreams for problem solving and artistic inspiration; see EWLD for a variety of examples.

Healing

The effects of visual imagery on the body are well-established. Just as skill practice in a dream can enhance waking performance, healing dream imagery may improve physical health. Medical patients have often used soothing and positive imagery to alleviate pain, and the dream world offers the most vivid form of imagery. Thus, some people have use lucid dreams in overcoming phobias, working with grief, decreasing social and sexual anxieties, achieving greater self-confidence and by directing the body image in the dream to facilitate physical healing. The applications, which are described in greater detail in EWLD, deserve clinical study, as they may be the greatest boon that lucid dreaming has to offer. Other potential healing applications of lucid dreaming include: practice of physical skills by stroke and spinal cord injury patients to encourage recovery of neuromuscular function, enjoyment of sexual satisfaction by people with lower body sensory loss (fully satisfying dream sex requires only mental stimulation!), more rapid recovery from injury or disease through the use of lucid dream imagery, and an increased sense of freedom for anyone who feels limited by disability or circumstance.

Transcendence

The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.

----------------------------------

WELL..... I don't think i have to elaborate or explain any of that... it's just to give a decent overview on why people might want to have lucid dreams.. and to perhaps give someone of you lucid dreamers another reason to attain lucidity.

Next Lesson: Can Lucid Dreaming Be Dangerous?

[random]

**Raises hand** <thinks: Do I still have to do that even though Im not in school??>

Question: This is off topic, but I am wondering: Are you going branch these ideas farther out and into other such things as Dreamscaping and whatnot?

Comment: Thank you so much for this teaching.

[Lucidia]

This is off topic, but I am wondering: Are you going branch these ideas farther out and into other such things as Dreamscaping and whatnot? well of course... i just want to fully cover lucid dreaming... as it's a "prerequisite" of dreamscaping and such.

[random]

I know you want to fully cover the topic.
Thank you for answering my question.
I was just curious.

[Lucidia]

no problem.. questions are more than welcome... i'm here to like..uhh.. teach and stuff... heheh...

*skips off to wonderland*

[Lucidia]

CAN LUCID DREAMING BE DANGEROUS?

The overwhelming majority of lucid dreams are positive, rewarding experiences. Moreover, lucidity in unpleasant dreams or nightmares can transform habitual fear into conscious courage. The simple state of lucidity is frequently enough to elevate the mood of a dreamer in a nightmare. In a study of the effect of lucid dreams on mood, college students reported that realizing they were dreaming in a nightmare helped them feel better about 60 percent of the time. Lucidity was seven times more likely to make nightmares better than worse.

A parallel concern is that dying in a dream can cause death in reality. If this were true, how would we know? Anyone who died from a dream could not tell us about its content. Many people, after awakening alive, report having died in their dreams with no ill effect. Dreams of death can actually be insightful experiences about life, rebirth, and transcendence.

Some people believe that dreams are messages from the unconscious mind and should not be consciously altered. Modern research on dreaming, discussed further in chapter 5 of EWLD, suggests that dreams are not messages, but models of the world. While awake, sensory and perceptual information governs our model. While dreaming, our bodies are paralyzed and our brain builds a world model based on a secondary source; namely, our assumptions, motivations, and expectations. These biases are difficult to identify while awake, so a world based entirely on such biases, the world of dreams, can help us to recognize them. Thus, dreams are not messages, but are more like clues into the inner workings of our minds. The conscious and critical awareness that accompanies lucid dreams allows dreamers to thoughtfully interpret their dreams while they happen.

Finally, some people worry that lucid dreams are so exciting and pleasurable that they will become addicted and "sleep their life away." There is a biological obstacle to living in lucid dreams: we have a limited amount of REM sleep. More importantly, lucid dreams can be inspirations for how to act and improve in reality. Your behavior strongly influences your experience in both worlds. Lucid dreams can be signposts for how you can make your waking reality more exciting and enjoyable.

[Lucidia]

CAN EVERYONE LEARN TO HAVE LUCID DREAMS?

Lucid dreaming is a skill you can develop, like learning a new language. A few individuals may have an innate talent for achieving lucidity, yet even they can benefit from instruction and practice in making the most of their lucid dreams. Many more people experience lucidity as a rare spontaneous event, but need training to enjoy lucid dreams at will. The best predictor of success with lucid dreaming is the ability to remember dreams. This, too, is a skill you can develop. With specific techniques, you can increase the quantity and quality of your dream recall, which will in turn greatly increase your ability to have lucid dreams.

[Lucidia]

HOW DO I LEARN TO HAVE LUCID DREAMS?

The two essentials to learning lucid dreaming are motivation and effort. Although most people report occasional spontaneous lucid dreams, they rarely occur without our intending it. Lucid dream induction techniques help focus intention and prepare a critical mind. They range from millennium-old Tibetan exercises to modern methods developed by dream researchers. Try the following techniques and feel free to use personal variants. Experiment, observe, and persevere - lucid dreaming is easier than you may think.

Dream Recall

The most important prerequisite for learning lucid dreaming is excellent dream recall. There are two likely reasons for this. First, when you remember your dreams well, you can become familiar with their features and patterns. This helps you to recognize them as dreams while they are still happening. Second, it is possible that with poor dream recall, you may actually have lucid dreams that you do not remember!

The procedure for improving your dream recall is fully detailed in EWLD and A Course in Lucid Dreaming in addition to many other books on dreams. A brief discussion of the methods involved is available on the Lucidity Institute web site. The core exercise is writing down everything you recall about your dreams in a dream journal immediately after waking from the dream, no matter how fragmentary your recall. Record what you recall immediately upon waking from the dream; if you wait until morning you are likely to forget most, if not all, of the dream. In A Course in Lucid Dreaming we advise that people build their dream recall to at least one dream recalled per night before proceeding with lucid dream induction techniques.

Reality Testing

This is a good technique for beginners. Assign yourself several times a day to perform the following exercise. Also do it anytime you think of it, especially when something odd occurs or when you are reminded of dreams. It helps to choose specific occasions like: when you see your face in the mirror, look at your watch, arrive at work or home, pick up your NovaDreamer, etc. The more frequently and thoroughly you practice this technique, the better it will work.

--Do a reality test.
Carry some text with you or wear a digital watch throughout the day. To do a reality test, read the words or the numbers on the watch. Then, look away and look back, observing the letters or numbers to see if they change. Try to make them change while watching them. Research shows that text changes 75% of the time it is re-read once and changes 95% it is re-read twice. If the characters do change, or are not normal, or do not make sense, then you are most probably dreaming. Enjoy! If the characters are normal, stable, and sensible, then you probably aren't dreaming. Go on to step 2.


--Imagine that your surroundings are a dream.
If you are fairly certain you are awake (you can never be 100% sure!), then say to yourself, "I may not be dreaming now, but if I were, what would it be like?" Visualize as vividly as possible that you are dreaming. Intently imagine that what you are seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling is all a dream. Imagine instabilities in your environment, words changing, scenes transforming, perhaps you floating off the ground. Create in yourself the feeling that you are in a dream. Holding that feeling, go on to step 3.


--Visualize yourself enjoying a dream activity.
Decide on something you would like to do in your next lucid dream, perhaps flying, talking to particular dream characters, or just exploring the dream world. Continue to imagine that you are dreaming now, and visualize yourself enjoying your chosen activity.

Dreamsigns

Another dream-recall related exercise introduced in EWLD and further developed in A Course in Lucid Dreaming is identifying "dreamsigns." This term, coined by LaBerge, refers to elements of dreams that indicate that you are dreaming. (Examples: miraculous flight, purple cats, malfunctioning devices, and meeting deceased people.) By studying your dreams you can become familiar with your own personal dreamsigns and set your mind to recognize them and become lucid in future dreams. The Course also provides exercises for noticing dreamsigns while you are awake, so that the skill carries over into your dreams. This exercise also applies to lucid dream induction devices, which give sensory cues--special, artificially-produced dreamsigns--while you are dreaming. To succeed at recognizing these cues in dreams, you need to practice looking for them and recognizing them while you are awake.

Mnemonic Induction of Lucid Dreams (MILD)

The MILD technique employs prospective memory, remembering to do something (notice you're dreaming) in the future. Dr. LaBerge developed this technique for his doctoral dissertation and used it to achieve lucid dreaming at will. The proper time to practice MILD is after awakening from a dream, before returning to sleep. (Modified from EWLD, p. 78)

--Setup dream recall.
Set your mind to awaken from dreams and recall them. When you awaken from a dream, recall it as completely as you can.


--Focus your intent.
While returning to sleep, concentrate single-mindedly on your intention to remember to recognize that you're dreaming. Tell yourself: "Next time I'm dreaming, I will remember I'm dreaming," repeatedly, like a mantra. Put real meaning into the words and focus on this idea alone. If you find yourself thinking about anything else, let it go and bring your mind back to your intention.


--See yourself becoming lucid.
As you continue to focus on your intention to remember when you're dreaming, imagine that you are back in the dream from which you just awakened (or another one you have had recently if you didn't remember a dream on awakening). Imagine that this time you recognize that you are dreaming. Look for a dreamsign--something in the dream that demonstrates plainly that it is a dream. When you see it say to yourself: "I'm dreaming!" and continue your fantasy. Imagine yourself carrying out your plans for your next lucid dream. For example, if you want to fly in your lucid dream, imagine yourself flying after you come to the point in your fantasy when you become lucid.


--Repeat until your intention is set.
Repeat steps 2 and 3 until either you fall asleep or are sure that your intention is set. If, while falling asleep, you find yourself thinking of anything else, repeat the procedure so that the last thing in your mind before falling asleep is your intention to remember to recognize the next time you are dreaming.

[MistOfTheSea86]

Hello Lucidia Last night I knida had a lucid dream. I was walking in a room, and I saw my friend Rhain. I yelled hi and I jumped and flew really high in the air. And she screams YOu can do it know eh? And i guess we started to have some strange duel. She was shooting beams at me. And at that moment I realized hey I am dreaming. I tried to shoot a beam at her, and it didn't work. It seemed seemed like I knew but couldn't control otherwise. Why?

[Lucidia]

And at that moment I realized hey I am dreaming. I tried to shoot a beam at her, and it didn't work. It seemed seemed like I knew but couldn't control otherwise. Why?
Well, as was explained earlier... being lucid in a dream means that you are aware that you are dreaming.. but doesn't mean that you will be able to control your dream itself.

keep trying.. it's tricky sometimes...

[Lucidia]

*bump* should i just stop posting lessons to this thread??

[loopy]

No, please don't!! I've been going back and forth between here and the Tarot dream exercises, and it's been difficult to do both at the same time. :) But I'm following along, and it's all been VERY informative and helpful. So please, if it suits you, continue. :)

[Lucidia]

ahh.. it's okay... its just that it got burried.. and i was getting a lot less response than usual... so i was wondering if anyone was still interested.. but if there is still interest.. than i shall continue to post the rest of the lessons.

[loopy]

Yay! :D :D

[Emerald Sky]

Originally posted by Lucidia
*bump* should i just stop posting lessons to this thread??

Nope, don't quit. I'm still reading too. This is such an interesting topic! Maybe if we moved it to a different forum it wouldn't get buried as quick... maybe divination? I guess it's not really divination though.


HEY MOL... we need a lucid dreaming forum!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Lucidia]

HOW QUICKLY CAN I LEARN LUCID DREAMING?

The speed with which you develop the skill of lucid dreaming depends on many individual factors. How well do you recall dreams? How much time can you give to practicing mental exercises? Do you use a lucid dream induction device? Do you practice diligently? Do you have a well developed critical thinking faculty? And so on.

Case histories may provide a more tangible picture of the process of learning lucid dreaming. Dr. LaBerge increased his frequency of lucid dreaming from about one per month to up to four a night (at which point he could have lucid dreams at will) over the course of three years. He was studying lucid dreaming for his doctoral dissertation and therefore needed to learn to have them on demand as quickly as possible. On the other hand, he had to invent techniques for improving lucid dreaming skills. Thus, people starting now, although they may not be as strongly motivated as LaBerge or have the same quantity of time to devote to it, have the advantage of the tested techniques, training programs, and electronic biofeedback aids that have been created in the two decades since LaBerge began his studies.

Lynne Levitan, staff writer for the Lucidity Institute, describes her experiences with learning lucid dreaming as follows:

"I first heard of lucid dreaming in April of 1982, when I took a course from Dr. LaBerge at Stanford University. I had had the experience many years before and was very interested to learn to do it again, as well as to get involved in the research. First I had to develop my dream recall, because at the time I only remembered two or three dreams per week. In a couple of months I was recalling 3 to 4 or more per night, and in July (about three months after starting) I had my first lucid dream since adolescence. I worked at it on and off for the next four years (not sleeping much as a student) and reached the level of 3 to 4 lucid dreams per week. Along the way, I tested several prototypes of the DreamLight lucid dream induction device and they clearly helped me to become more proficient at realizing when I was dreaming. During the first two years that we were developing the DreamLight, I had lucid dreams on half of the nights I used one of these devices, compared to once a week or less without. In considering how long it took me to get really good at lucid dreaming, note that I did not have the benefit of the thoroughly studied and explained techniques now available either, because the research had not yet been done nor the material written. Therefore, people now should be able to accomplish the same learning in far less time given, of course, sufficient motivation."

[loopy]

*bumpity bump bump*

[shellanthia]

Merry meet, hi all i just would like to ask if there was any way anyone could help me out with a dream ive been having, i also wanted to know since it was mentioned about astral plane, since alot of you are familiar with it, as am i, if anyone has recognized me on here...and if so please respond...i need as many friends as possible out side of astral projection.....;) shellanthia