Black and White Magick.

[mol]

Is there such a thing? Lets hear the Community's view on this subject.

[Mairwen]

I don't think so.

[mol]

Originally posted by Mairwen
I don't think so.

MmmmmK. Why?

And I agree. My explanation: OK!

There is no White Magick or Black Magick. There is just the Person who wields it and their REASONS and PURPOSES for doing so...

[Mairwen]

Yup. That's exactly why.

Intent, intent, intent! :D

[chaos]

some traditions tend to lean in a black and white magick system. it seems more prevelant the more ritualistic you get. i have to say that i dont label my magick with color. i do think there are different labels for magick though. but the intent, as mairwen says, is not inherent to magick. it is to the weilder.

[Jazzmine]

I agree with Chaos. You shouldn't use color to define your intent. If your doing magick for the good, you know it. And same if your doing it for the wrong reasons. Let's hope that noone out there is doing it for the wrong reasons.

[Witchbourne]

Well for me Magick is kind of blue...

There are Black and White magick if one want it to be....

It's what we makes it to be*..or how it turnes out to be...sometimes totally colourless though....

A bientot* et Blessed be*

[mol]

Some very interesting answers and views here. Show how eclectic this place is..

[Shatav]

There is no good or evil, black or white. Why? Because we are each unique individuals with unique backgrounds and definitions. What is completely evil to one person, is normal practice for another.

Now, as far as magick, white vs black? Every act of magick is a manipulation of universal energy. Period. Not even intent makes a difference. The problem really comes in when people start thinking well healing is good, right? But I say, I don't know. In my view, you perform a healing here, where are you taking that healing energy from and are you making someone else sick somewhere else?

You can't add without taking away, or take without adding, so somewhere all of this "negative" energy is being replaced. Energy can be manipulated, but not destroyed.

Ugh, I'm not even making sense to myself tonight. So much for the "theoricus".

*goes and sits grumbling in a corner until she can get her verbosity back*

[Mairwen]

Throwing out a bone, here. We teach that all healing magics are negative acts. Why? Because in order for something to heal, something must die.

But bear in mind that we don't view "negative" and "positive" in the sense of "bad" and "good", either.

[Litha]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shatav
You can't add without taking away, or take without adding, so somewhere all of this "negative" energy is being replaced. Energy can be manipulated, but not destroyed.
QUOTE]

In instances when I am met with a lot of negative energy
(eg problems among staff at work) I ask the Goddess to gather it up and transmute it to light.

[Lynnaea]

Our culture traditionally uses "black magic" to mean harmful, and "white magic" to mean good. It is so prevalent a symbol that we use these expressions without really thinking sometimes. I do not think black is bad anymore than white is good, they are just colors. I also do not think magic is good or bad anymore than I think electricity or fire is good or bad.

Magic is an energy, how we use it makes it good and bad. Another thing to consider is how we perceive good and evil, our intentions might be for good, but someone else involved may be in a situation we did not consider when we cast. If you had a friend who was upset over her marriage breaking up and you cast to help her, and then found out her husband was abusive and you were not helping her by keeping them together. Would that be good or bad?

Sometimes it is best to let the universe sort things out without our interference, sometimes we need to help things along, it takes wisdom to know the difference.

[Jazzmine]

Maybe I'm not understanding, but the last few comments to me seem to talk in circles. Do you do magick? Because the comments make it sound like you don't. Just curious. I know some pagans don't do magick.

[Mairwen]

Jazzmine, who is this directed to?

[Lilu]

There's a few ways that I approach this.

Someone mentioned that you can't take healing energy and give it to someone else without taking it from another. This may be true, but we have to look at HOW we do it.

Every time I do magick I ask that the energy I send someone be used in whatever manner that does them most good (or the situation or whatever it is I'm casting a spell for). And it is my energy which I am sending, I am not taking it from anyone else.

Magnified Healing is all about transformation of negative energy to positive energy, in a healing we send the negative energy in a person to Quan Yin and her violet flame of transmutation. This energy is passed through the flame and cleansed, becoming positive energy.

I believe that there has to be balance in the Universe, but I don't think it's as clear cut as "take from someone to give to another". If that were the case, then I would have to feel terrible each time I asked the Goddess to watch over me and keep my loved ones safe, and to bless us with good fortune and prosperity. By asking it, you would indicate that I may be taking it good fortune and prosperity from someone else. I don't think so.

I only ask for what is rightfully mine and for what the Universe has planned for me. I never manipulate energy for my benefit, I simply ask that the energy I put into doing magick benefit me (or whoever I'm doing the spell for) in the best possible way for all.

I don't know if that makes a lot of sense, but it's how I see it. I believe that energy is there for us to use, and we should use it, asking things so long as they are good for all.

BB
Lilu

[Jazzmine]

O.K., That makes sense to me. I guess I was reading the other comments wrong. When you put it that way it makes a lot more sense. I thought at first that you were saying that you were taking energy from somewhere. I don't know, maybe I need a nap. HEHE

[mol]

Hmm. Interesting. When I perform any kind of Magick I draw the energy. As I said in other posts, I am very ritualistic and usually always use a circle for any kind of work. I draw energy from Mother and direct it to the object of the work.

I also draw energy from the various Elements. They have always been very helpful in my work...anytime I ask for it.

[Shatav]

When I draw my energy, it is from the universal elements, most of the time...meaning I don't know really where it comes from. (The only time I wouldn't do this is if I had a pure elemental with me, and that I've only had happen once, normally they just send their representatives, so to speak.) So, to stave off possible bad consequences, I try to take a little of each element from different places. I can tell approximately what area of the world/universe I'm taking from, so I just snitch a little here and a little there to make up the whole, that way there are only minor reprucussions in many places rather than one big reprecussive effect in one place.

That's how I deal with it, right now, anyhow. I'm delving into other theories and experimenting with them, though and if they pan out, I'll be happy to let the world know.

[Lynnaea]

Originally posted by Shatav
snip......
Now, as far as magick, white vs black? Every act of magick is a manipulation of universal energy. Period. Not even intent makes a difference. The problem really comes in when people start thinking well healing is good, right? But I say, I don't know. In my view, you perform a healing here, where are you taking that healing energy from and are you making someone else sick somewhere else?
You can't add without taking away, or take without adding, so somewhere all of this "negative" energy is being replaced. Energy can be manipulated, but not destroyed.
............
Are you talking about the state of equilibrium? It is true matter acted upon by gravity trys to find equilibrium, chemical reactions occur until they find equilibrium. But that is about the earth plane, I have never heard of such a thing with healing energies.
We all learned in physics the "energy can not be created or destroyed, just changed to another form", when manipulated with magic, why not change the form of energy? Don't think you are taking it from someone else and making them sick, whatever you visualize is what will happen. Take it from the Universe, or take it from the Mother, ground it back into her and she will change it again.
Now healing is not good if it is against the person's wishes. Some have karma to work out and a healing would just delay the inevitable, we are taught to always ask first.

[Shatav]

Originally posted by Lynnaea

Are you talking about the state of equilibrium? It is true matter acted upon by gravity trys to find equilibrium, chemical reactions occur until they find equilibrium. But that is about the earth plane, I have never heard of such a thing with healing energies.

You'll have to excuse me, I have an almost scientific approach to magick, one because I was a science major in college, and two because I've currently been studying alchemy. So, to me, magick is a science that we just can't quite explain yet. I see very little mystical about it, except that it can't be understood by our current consciousness and understanding of the universe. So, in answer, there is no difference between chemical reactions, as you were speaking of, and a healing spell, except the exact components and cause and effect relationships aren't yet known.

We all learned in physics the "energy can not be created or destroyed, just changed to another form", when manipulated with magic, why not change the form of energy?

But there's the kicker. Even in physics, to change the energy into another form, some shift has to occur, be it adding heat (energy) or taking it away. So even in changing something, you are equally changing another thing. Get what I'm saying? I like to think of it more in terms of chemical reactions. You want to change one thing into another. You have to add more chemicals (subtracting that chemical from existence in its pure form) and add heat (energy, which also burns another fuel taking away a resource), to finally get what you want.


Take it from the Universe, or take it from the Mother, ground it back into her and she will change it again.


But do you actually know the exact where of where it comes from? I'm not comfortable until I do. Taking from the universe, still is taking and causing a change somewhere. Taking from the Earth Mother, is the same as well. Call me cautious. ;)

[Semele]

The way I look at it, and I am certainly not a scientest, there is a lot of untapped energy in the world. Meaning that we can get energy from all things, trees, water, air, each other, etc...anything. But to use that energy we have to accept it and keep ourselves open. We can ask for guidance in changing that energy to serve our purpose for the moment. I don't think that we leave the source short of any energy because they are constantly open to recieving energy. In fact, I believe they recieve energy from us just by offering us energy. Huh?? Did that come out right? What I mean is when we are grateful to the element which gives us energy to use and we express that gratitude we are in turn giving energy back. Kind of a win win situation. That's how I like to look at it anyway.

I am not saying that we don't "steal" energy from other people sometimes. We can take energy from someone who is willing to give it but if we don't offer some in return then I think that is a form of theft. i think of energy in very broad terms. i think a smile or a kind word is a way of sending energy. Think of the way you feel when someone goes out of their way to be nice to you. They have given you some of their energy that you can change and use however you want. You have been empowered. Also think of how it hurts you when someone says somehting hateful. Let down and drained so to speak. They have taken your energy without your approval. I think the best way to combat this is to give them even more posititve energy and maybe they wont feel the need to take what they can get. Sometimes it works, other times it just makes them hungry for more.

Anyway thats my take on the subject.

Semele

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
Semele,I liked your take on the subject.I think every time we do something helpful or nice to somebody,we are giving some energy.Hopefully they take this energy and do something nice for someone else and so on.Eventually someone helps us and we receive energy back.Does that make sense?It's kind of circular to me.
Peace and Love
Rain BrightStar

[Semele]

Indeed it is a circle, as is most everything in life!

Semele

[Shatav]

Originally posted by Semele
The way I look at it, and I am certainly not a scientest, there is a lot of untapped energy in the world. Meaning that we can get energy from all things, trees, water, air, each other, etc...anything.


Yes, but just because it's untapped, does that mean we have the right to just draw on it whenever we want? Most of our brains are not used, does that make it alright for a doctor to come and cut a chunk of it out? (Oh, and in case anyone's wondering, relax, I like to play devil's advocate and ponder...these comments are only meant to make you think. They don't necessarily represent my views. I'm a philosopher by nature. :) )


What I mean is when we are grateful to the element which gives us energy to use and we express that gratitude we are in turn giving energy back. Kind of a win win situation. That's how I like to look at it anyway.


*nods* I can definitely see it from this perspective.


i think of energy in very broad terms. i think a smile or a kind word is a way of sending energy....think of how it hurts you when someone says somehting hateful. Let down and drained so to speak. They have taken your energy without your approval.

Beautiful analogy! And you're quite right. People often don't understand how "unconsciously" the send out negative or positive energy. I've always done my best to try my best even in the little things to send only positive. So many people direct enough negative at themselves they don't need anymore from outside sources, as you said.

[Kaylara]

Semele-
Funny, I have been talking about the same thing with my friends for the past couple of years. I think that focusing your attention on something or someone sends them energy, and vice versa. Also, thoughts have the same effect, therefore, negative thinking will breed more negative thoughts.

Kaylara