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mol
June 5th, 2003, 03:38 PM
There has been, I think, sufficient response to continue forward with this class. The purpose of the preliminaries was to see exactly how viable this would be. It seems that we have a handful of core people who will be willing to see this through so let me give a little more information of what we need to do.

First, I am NO FAN of workbooks, etc. BUT, for the sake of having a framework by which to study I have found a book which is not too 'crappy'. The book is called "The Ritual Magic Workbook" and the author is Dolores Ashcroft. This book comprises a years worth of study and makes no claims of producing anything more than a working knowledge of ritual magic. So, I suggest we use this book to guide us in our studies because it is laid out fairly well. Here are some links to the book to buy it online:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1578630452/qid=1054841148/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-4419069-6175047?v=glance&s=books -amazon

http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=1081648&domain_id=1856&meta_id=1 - half.com

It will cost you anywhere from $8 to $15 depending on where you buy it. It should also be availiable at Barnes & Noble or Borders, etc. For those of you who cannot afford, have no means of getting the book...well, you can still participate. The important parts will be discussed here especially the "What do we do now" type stuff. I would encourage everyone to buy it if you can.

Now, with that said...please dont say..."How cheesy! Im not doing this." Well, if that is your wish, but bear in mind we are going to be doing this OUR way and just using the book as a framework. The author poses very good questions and the month by month regimen is a good thing when doing studies like this. Also, if you dont like this author that is fine, too. Im sure we will find plenty of cheese to make nacho's with. The point is not the content really, its the framework.

So, to give people time to get the material needed I will post a few of her questions tonight which she asks in the intro chapter of the book that I think are relevant to our study.

Im going to start another thread entitled 'Intro'. Which I will post this message in as well. When you get the book please tell me in the thread. If you cant get the book then please tell me this as well.

Toad
June 5th, 2003, 03:53 PM
Just ordered the book Mol. Luckily I was quick enough to combine it with my order earlier today.

My copy was 10.47 plus shipping for those curious - I went through Amazon.

Mol - thanks for taking this on...I know that you are a busy guy as it is and this is yet another thing on your plate. While I doubt I will be any help with teaching or facilitating...if you need someone to do grunt work on this (I dunno - typing passages out of a book or something - whatever) I will be more than happy to volunteer my time.

I am looking forward to this! :D

mol
June 5th, 2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Toad

Mol - thanks for taking this on...I know that you are a busy guy as it is and this is yet another thing on your plate. While I doubt I will be any help with teaching or facilitating...if you need someone to do grunt work on this (I dunno - typing passages out of a book or something - whatever) I will be more than happy to volunteer my time.

I am looking forward to this! :D

Excellent! But, hey...Im not taking this on alone. This was another reason I chose to use a book to structure things. I didnt want most of my work to be in organizing the class, but rather involving myself. :) I am very much looking forward to this as well. It should make for an interesting year's worth of discussion.

Toad
June 5th, 2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by mol

Excellent! But, hey...Im not taking this on alone. This was another reason I chose to use a book to structure things. I didnt want most of my work to be in organizing the class, but rather involving myself. :) I am very much looking forward to this as well. It should make for an interesting year's worth of discussion.

I guess I just assumed you were playing teacher...even better to know that you will be knee deep with the rest of us! Still that offer stands...if ya need a grunt...I am your man! ;)

mol
June 5th, 2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Toad

I guess I just assumed you were playing teacher...even better to know that you will be knee deep with the rest of us! Still that offer stands...if ya need a grunt...I am your man! ;)

All I am playing is organizer! Most of what I know is based on teaching of Crowley and Thelemic authors/teachers. This will be new ground for me as well, but it should be interesting because I want to throw in a Thelemic background in the mix. If others through Kemetic, Wiccan, etc into the discussion as well we should have some interesting discussions, dont ya think?

Toad
June 5th, 2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by mol
If others through Kemetic, Wiccan, etc into the discussion as well we should have some interesting discussions, dont ya think?

Absolutely! This is one of the great things about these boards. There are alot of differeing opinions, differeing beliefs...but all in all everyone gets along.

If judging by the old tarot class threads I have seen...we have one hell of an organizer. This will be fun!

mol
June 5th, 2003, 08:59 PM
Anyone else with us here?

mol
June 5th, 2003, 10:11 PM
Ok. Reading through the introduction the author proposes a few questions before undertaking the year long month-by-month study. A few of them I think that are really important I will ask here and we can discuss..

1. Why do you want to work magic?

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

So...I will start off with a few thoughts of my own. The author goes into some answers to these questions, but as I stated before...I am not really interested in the information provided by the author as much as the framework.

1. Why do I want to work magic?

Honestly? I am a control freak. I always have been. I want to be in control of every aspect of my life and I think that magic can help me achieve that goal. But, I have also always been drawn to the study of magic and the occult. It intrigues me because I am a very curious person. I like solving problems which is why I am now a software engineer.

2. What makes a good magician?

Well, I would say a good deal of patience. This is something I have had to learn because I didnt have a lot of patience growing up. Only after a few kids am I confident enough to say I have the patience to try and take on the deeper study of magic. I think that a magician needs to have some good problem solving skills and good research skills. In this day and age I think a mastery of the internet is a BIG PLUS! There is so much information on the internet if one can just find it. I know that my library has expanded exponentially because of the virtual texts I have found across the net. The ease of aquiring tools is also a great plus of the internet. And of course, the exchange of information and discussion like we are doing right now shows the pwer of the internet. Math skills have shown to be a big plus in studying Crowley I will tell you this. Above all I think that one must have a sense of humor about God, magic, spirituality, and life. A good sense of humor and the ability to step back and laugh at your mistakes is very important.

3. What is the "Path of the Hearth Fire"?

Actually I didnt know it, but I knew this! I that makes any sense. I didnt know it was called this. Rather than spill the beans I will wait and see what you all have to say about this topic before I say any more.

Lets go people! Discuss!

WillowSageheart
June 6th, 2003, 12:23 AM
1 - Why I do magick is because it makes sense to me. Although it would be difficult to produce proof that it works, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it does. Ok... I admit it... I'm somewhat of a control freak too.

2 - What makes a good magician? In my experience it is several things. First and foremost though is belief. Patience, perseverance and knowledge is most definitely needed as well. Educating yourself is a key factor to success. Although I have used other rituals and spells, I have gained much more by writing my own.

3 - Another admission, I haven't bought the book yet, and have no idea when I will get around to it. So for #3, I haven't a clue. I have never heard the term before.

mol
June 6th, 2003, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by WillowSageheart
2 - What makes a good magician? In my experience it is several things. First and foremost though is belief.

Belief in what?

Toad
June 6th, 2003, 10:23 AM
1. Why do you want to work magic?

Honestly this is the first time I have sat down and answered this question. There are several reasons in my case.

You have to understand…I have spent the majority of my 32 years believing that magic was a great fairy tale. It was only in the last few months that someone/something ‘turned the lights on’ for me. I have begun to read, study and most importantly SEE that there are many things possible that up until recently I dismissed. My early spells that I have done, simple things, but still, have been very successful. I now KNOW that I can use magic…I just need a bit of training.

I am drawn to it. Every aspect of my being tells me that this is the path, direction I need to look to. At this point I am not of the opinion that I was meant to be a magician, rather I am being pulled to investigate this…and investigate it I will. I will answer the question for myself…if this means I was meant to be a magician fine, if I was meant for something else…that will be fine as well and this will be a stepping stone in that direction. In either case…I am committed to finding out. :D

I have a firm belief that we all were put here for a purpose. I believe that we all have a reason for being. I firmly believe that one of my reasons for being is to raise, teach, guide and protect my children. This is a job that I take very seriously. Growing up I was not instructed in any sort of spiritual path, no religion, no belief in much of anything other than the endless chase for material possessions. I don’t want this for my children. I will not make the same mistakes my father made (though I readily understand that I am certain to make my own mistakes – all I can do is try my best). Like I said above I am drawn to it…I think that this pull is for myself…however having a good working knowledge of magic at the minimum will help me as I guide my children down the path of spirituality. They will know that it IS possible to harness and use magic…whether the do so or not is their decision. However, they will not go through life with blinders on. I am gathering as much knowledge on as many things as I possibly can in hopes that this knowledge will help me to guide my children toward their path when that time comes.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Hmm…this is a tuff one being as inexperienced as I am. But I will take my best educated guess.

First I am defining this question more like “ What do you think is needed to be successful magician?”. Sorry I don’t like the word good, its just too subjective in that context.

To my mind magic is the physical manifestation of the magicians will. That will is delivered by the magician using confidence, and desire.

I believe that a key component to successful magic has to be confidence. If the magician is unsure of the spell, if it will work, if it will backfire, etc…they are at a supreme disadvantage. A part of this confidence…or rather a component that is assumed in my mind is clarity of will. To my mind you must clearly understand what your intent is without any doubt. I feel that this clarity must be driven by a strong focused will to see this intent realized.

The other key component is desire. I believe that the magician must have a strong desire to make his magic effective. He must believe that he is doing what it is in his nature to do. Crowely said it best, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"– I accept the common definition of this to mean to do what it is ones true will to do…rather than the often suggested anarchical meaning that the uninformed toss around on occasion.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

I haven’t heard of this before…and honestly to say I know what it means would be a pure guess. I can take such a guess if this was the intention of asking the question…but I am unsure so I will wait for that request.

mol
June 6th, 2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Toad Crowely said it best, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

Oh, we will get much deeper into the meaning of this phrase. I gurantee it! :D

Great answer, Toad!

Toad
June 6th, 2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by mol

1. Why do I want to work magic?

Honestly? I am a control freak. I always have been. I want to be in control of every aspect of my life and I think that magic can help me achieve that goal. But, I have also always been drawn to the study of magic and the occult. It intrigues me because I am a very curious person. I like solving problems which is why I am now a software engineer.


Curiosity…I have to agree wholeheartedly! I also answered that I was drawn to it…again I think this is key as well.


Originally posted by mol
2. What makes a good magician?

Well, I would say a good deal of patience. This is something I have had to learn because I didnt have a lot of patience growing up. Only after a few kids am I confident enough to say I have the patience to try and take on the deeper study of magic. I think that a magician needs to have some good problem solving skills and good research skills. In this day and age I think a mastery of the internet is a BIG PLUS! There is so much information on the internet if one can just find it. I know that my library has expanded exponentially because of the virtual texts I have found across the net. The ease of aquiring tools is also a great plus of the internet. And of course, the exchange of information and discussion like we are doing right now shows the pwer of the internet. Math skills have shown to be a big plus in studying Crowley I will tell you this. Above all I think that one must have a sense of humor about God, magic, spirituality, and life. A good sense of humor and the ability to step back and laugh at your mistakes is very important.


Patience is an interesting answer. I can plainly see the point. It just didn’t occur to me as I am a patient person. This stuff is not going to happen overnight though…we will have to be patient.

The research skills again I guess I take for granted. However a very good point Mol.

Math skills…I knew someone would say math. I am not a math oriented person…while I can deal with it, math is a struggle at times for me. This will probably be an area, as we go forward, where I will be scratching my head a lot.

Another characteristic occurred to me having just posted my response and reading yours…I have to mention dedication. Like most things in life, to be proficient at them, requires dedication. This is probably assumed by most of us…but it cant hurt to explicitly state it.


Originally posted by mol
3. What is the "Path of the Hearth Fire"?

Actually I didnt know it, but I knew this! I that makes any sense. I didnt know it was called this. Rather than spill the beans I will wait and see what you all have to say about this topic before I say any more.


Sneaky sneaky! ;-p:::

mol
June 6th, 2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Toad
Math skills…I knew someone would say math. I am not a math oriented person…while I can deal with it, math is a struggle at times for me. This will probably be an area, as we go forward, where I will be scratching my head a lot.


I wouldnt worry about the math part. Math is a big part of my life so I tend to throw it into everything. Those answers are mainly just my POV.


Originally posted by Toad
Another characteristic occurred to me having just posted my response and reading yours…I have to mention dedication. Like most things in life, to be proficient at them, requires dedication. This is probably assumed by most of us…but it cant hurt to explicitly state it.


Dedication is a definite. Like studying anything else you must be able to persevere especially when it is BORING. :)


Originally posted by Toad
Sneaky sneaky! ;-p:::

Aww, dont worry. As soon as I or someone else spills the beans you will be smacking your head saying "Doh! I knew it!"

Toad
June 6th, 2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by mol

I wouldnt worry about the math part. Math is a big part of my life so I tend to throw it into everything. Those answers are mainly just my POV.


Yea...I knew you were talking from your POV...still the math issue I have run across. At this point I have gone though a tremendous amount of topics in the occult realm...just scratching the surface to find the things that intrested me. Numerology being one. Also the frequent numerical refrences in Qabalah. These parts are at once fascinating to me but at the same time they are frustrating...my mind just doesnt do well with numbers.

My money says I will be leaning on folks like yourself to help me to understand the aspects of the math ahead. So...sorry in advance =).

WillowSageheart
June 6th, 2003, 11:07 AM
Belief in yourself and your ability to effect change.

Toad
June 6th, 2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by WillowSageheart

Belief in yourself and your ability to effect change.

Ahh...OK. I know Mol asked this...but I was thinking it too. This makes alot of sense.

Sounds like we are all in agreement on this point...for the most part anyway.

Ben Trismegistus
June 6th, 2003, 05:17 PM
Hey! I got sidetracked by the fascinating abortion discussion, and only just made it here, 20 minutes before the end of my work week. But I wanted to contribute what I can:


1. Why do you want to work magic?

Because in my opinion, magic is the most direct and comprehensive way to bring about change in one's self, thereby bringing one into greater harmony with the universe and the circumstances of one's life. So, for me, magic is a tool for self-exploration and becoming the best person you can be.


2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Commitment, dedication, patience, respect for the infinite.


3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

Um, that's a big ol' negatory, pardner!

mol
June 6th, 2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Ben Trismegistus
Um, that's a big ol' negatory, pardner!

All righty then...here is what Dolores has to say on the subject of the "Hearth Fire".

"This is the name give to ordinary life when it is lived as a sacred tradition. Unless you were destined to live alone, then at sometime or another you must conform to this Path and pay its dues. These dues are the work you do every day be it as a doctor, a housewife, a painter or a road sweeper. It should be done to the best of your ability with love and understanding and pride in your work."

She continues to say: "It is the most important Magical Path you will ever tread, though few are able to see it as such."

And there you go.

In Thelema this is called your True Will.

Toad
June 6th, 2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by mol

And there you go.

In Thelema this is called your True Will.

<slaps his head> DOH! I should have guessed that. :D

mol
June 6th, 2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Toad

<slaps his head> DOH! I should have guessed that. :D

I told you.

Toad
June 7th, 2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by mol

I told you.

You certainly did...

I should have my book on Monday according to the tracking info. Look forward to being able to follow along Mol...I am very interested in where she got that name. I know that you didn’t exactly give the content of this book good reviews, you wanted it for the structure, but having read the excerpts on Amazon...its looks like a pretty decent text...at least the ideas she had for setting up your temple I thought were pretty nifty anyway.

mol
June 7th, 2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Toad
I know that you didn’t exactly give the content of this book good reviews, you wanted it for the structure, but having read the excerpts on Amazon...its looks like a pretty decent text...

Its not that I think the content is bad. I dont think that at all. But, for our discussion I would rather not take Dolores' word for anything rather I would like for us to discuss and come up with our own personal conclusions.

WillowSageheart
June 7th, 2003, 12:11 PM
I like that name. I always called it settling the home account. I also agree that it is the most important path, the one that decides your karma. You can be as devout as you want to, but if you don't "walk the walk and talk the talk" you are not being true to your spiritual path, which makes your spiritual path nothing but a waste of everyone's time.

As for my career, just as in most everyone's careers, you have two choices, what's best for the person you are serving, or what's best for your own bank account. In my field, there is so much profit possible that most look at that first. I have no problem charging for my work as I feel I am very good at what I do, however, I make sure that they get what they pay for. In other words, I will not go for the big bucks, but rather find the programs that are best for my clients. I don't make as much money as everyone else, but I get more referrals than anyone I know.

Theres
June 8th, 2003, 01:52 PM
1. Why do you want to work magic?
curiosity about the 'unknown'. a desire to peek behind the curtain, so to speak. and hopefully to find a few answers.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?
i'll agree with whoever said "patience". and certainly a large dose of faith, in one's own ability and in the fact that not everything is quantifiable in accordance with 'conventional' science (the 'mysteries').
and i'll also add the understanding that magick is of nature, and not above it.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
i'll confess that i had never heard that expression before either, but after reading this thread the concept is familiar.


i don't have the book, and probably can't afford it any time soon. but i am familiar with Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki and the servants of Light, and have a number of her books on my shelf, so i'd be glad to add anything by her... eventually.

teyl
June 8th, 2003, 06:03 PM
1.Why do you want to work magic?
I think in this day and age you have to have personal power and confidence in yourself, and magic is one way of fine tuning the energy required.

2. What do I think is needed to be a good magician?
Patience, confidence in yourself, a good heart and sincerity,

3.Do you know what is meant by the path of the hearth fire?
The 'hearth fire' to me has always referred to the current way you are living your life, your home situation and your close friends but i have never heard of the path of the hearth fire.

i have ordered the book but i think they are posting it by donkey as i have been told it may take a while. i look forward to further dicsussion.

Lunacie
June 8th, 2003, 06:11 PM
I had a line on getting the book but missed out. I hope I can follow along to a small degree anyway?

1. Why do you want to work magic?

Let's calling it "flexing a rather unused muscle" and an opportunity to learn some new things or techniques. And what a wonderful opportunity to experiment with a group again, I've missed that.


2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Curiosity, and confidence that we learn from our mistakes.


3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

I hadn't heard this particular phrase before either, but I like the sound of it... the passion that ignites our spirit, eh?

WillowSageheart
June 8th, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Lunacie

1. Why do you want to work magic?

Let's calling it "flexing a rather unused muscle" and an opportunity to learn some new things or techniques. And what a wonderful opportunity to experiment with a group again, I've missed that.

What an absolutely wonderful way of putting it! I hadn't ever thought of it that way!

Lunacie
June 8th, 2003, 06:53 PM
Awww **ducking my head and blushing** :bigredblu Thankee.

Haedis
June 8th, 2003, 06:54 PM
1. Why do you want to work magic?

I want to know what's possible for me to accomplish and what improvements I can make to myself. Its always good to have another way to get things done, so many people miss out on the opportunity. It's fun. I'm a Leo so naturally I like having power, especially power that not everyone knows how to use. And I've been studying it so damn much its kind of silly for me to practice as little as I do now.

2. What is needed to be a good magician?

The ability to think for yourself. Its the only way you'll come up with solutions and new ideas that will work when all else fails. You'll reach your own conclusions which aren't just based on popular opinion or ignorance.

Dedication.

And a laid-back attitude about magic. An uptight magician would subconsciously ruin their own work and get too bent out of shape if a working failed.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

Well I do now, but sheesh...what a goofy name for it.

Ben Trismegistus
June 9th, 2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by mol

"This is the name give to ordinary life when it is lived as a sacred tradition. Unless you were destined to live alone, then at sometime or another you must conform to this Path and pay its dues. These dues are the work you do every day be it as a doctor, a housewife, a painter or a road sweeper. It should be done to the best of your ability with love and understanding and pride in your work."


Well yeah, duh.... That's what I was gonna say.

*grin*

mol
June 9th, 2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Lunacie

I hadn't heard this particular phrase before either, but I like the sound of it... the passion that ignites our spirit, eh?

Well, Crowley said it best in his definition of Magic:

"The Science and Art of causing Change to occur in comformity with Will."

How can you expect to focus your Will if your life is not in conformance with your Will?

Xentor
June 9th, 2003, 05:52 PM
Almost missed out on this one.

To answer the questions:
1) To make my environment a better place for me to live in. That includes healing and control. But also, to help myself accept that there are things outside of my control. In those situations, I believe magic will allow me to go with the flow and perhaps create a nice ending.

2) Knowledge. Practice. Patience. Perseverence. A good teacher. The ability to learn. A friendly learning environment that allows for discussion, such as this thread and forum.

3) Couldn't place the terminology. Did a small Google search on this one and got a couple of answers. It seems to boil down to "Home is where the heart is". Magic should be a part of your everyday life. How else would one become acquinted with it and feel comfortable using it?

Lunacie
June 9th, 2003, 07:18 PM
Um, Mol?? Are you saying that I'm in the right ballpark or that I'm in a whole 'nother galaxy?

mol
June 10th, 2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Lunacie

Um, Mol?? Are you saying that I'm in the right ballpark or that I'm in a whole 'nother galaxy?

I don't know! What do you think? :D

mol
June 10th, 2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Xentor

2) A good teacher.

And I would add that sometimes the best teacher is yourself.

Toad
June 10th, 2003, 11:47 AM
I wanted to say first of all thanks to everyone for the replies. I think all of you have given some very intresting views.

This one though...really got me to thinking.


Originally posted by mol

And I would add that sometimes the best teacher is yourself.

While I agree with this statement wholeheartedly...it causes me to question some things. For instance...I am what you would call a self-sufficient person. I loathe asking for help. While I do love to share my time and knowledge with others...I am hesitant to ask others to share the same with me. Honestly, I dont know the true reason for this. The reason I describe this 'handicap' is that it serves as a primer for this question...

Do you think that learning to perform ceremonial magic...or if you like expand that to any magic...is benefited by having a mentor or teacher? Or is it possible...with enough study, patience and experimentation to be proficient as a solo practitioner?

Also it might help to clarify that when I say teacher/mentor I am talking real life versions. While I am a huge fan of online discussion, study etc...there IS a distinction between online and RL.

For myself...with my particular 'handicap' its honestly difficult for me to answer this simple question objectively.

~ Monk ~
June 10th, 2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by mol
1. Why do you want to work magic?

I'll be honest - I don't know that I do. At least for now, I'm just curious to learn more.

From what I currently understand magic to be, I feel that I've used it unknowingly in the past - perhaps learning and understanding more will motivate me to use it more.

At this point, were I to decide to use magic, it would for personal healing and protection.


Originally posted by mol
2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Patience, dedication, humility, and clear intent.


Originally posted by mol
3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"


I didn't know going in, but now I do. :D

WillowSageheart
June 10th, 2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Toad

Do you think that learning to perform ceremonial magic...or if you like expand that to any magic...is benefited by having a mentor or teacher? Or is it possible...with enough study, patience and experimentation to be proficient as a solo practitioner?

Also it might help to clarify that when I say teacher/mentor I am talking real life versions. While I am a huge fan of online discussion, study etc...there IS a distinction between online and RL.

IMO I believe that it is possible to become proficient that way, providing the person has an open enough mind, self discipline and an at least average intelligence - which includes everyone in this forum IMHO. :p

I had some wonderful teachers when I first started. However, I now personally find it easier with online vs. RL, but that's probably because there are so few pagans that I know, and most are more novice than I am, and those I know are very close-knit and belong to a coven - which I do not. Here it is much easier to ask questions 24/7, and get many opinions instead of just one.

Ryhla
June 10th, 2003, 12:43 PM
1. Why do you want to work magic?
I can easily say to pull a rabbit out of a hat and impress my friends. ;) But on a serious note...I would want to work magic(k) for betterment of either myself or someone else. With their permission of course. Also, it will help me gain focus for other areas in my life, just with the learning of magick alone. Plus I believe in working magick, I will come to a better understanding of myself.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?
Faith and a belief that what you are doing is for real and for good. One doesn't need fancy tools to be a good magician. One just needs themself and an understanding of their faith, beliefs, and themselves.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
I gathered the meaning by what the quote says, along the lines of kitchen magic. As I see now...Nope.

mol
June 10th, 2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Toad
While I agree with this statement wholeheartedly...it causes me to question some things. For instance...I am what you would call a self-sufficient person. I loathe asking for help. While I do love to share my time and knowledge with others...I am hesitant to ask others to share the same with me. Honestly, I dont know the true reason for this. The reason I describe this 'handicap' is that it serves as a primer for this question...


First of all, dont describe this as a handicap. It is not!


Originally posted by Toad
Do you think that learning to perform ceremonial magic...or if you like expand that to any magic...is benefited by having a mentor or teacher?


Is it a benefit? Of course! Is it required? Absolutely not. You can become proficient in anything with enough study...it just means it might take a little longer and then again...it may not. It depends on how well you comprehend the material at hand.


Originally posted by Toad
For myself...with my particular 'handicap' its honestly difficult for me to answer this simple question objectively.

That might be a problem. Do not be afraid to ask questions. The benefit we have here is that we are not truly alone. We can practice solitarily, but then use this group to study and analyze our progress. We have the best of both worlds.

Toad
June 10th, 2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by mol

That might be a problem. Do not be afraid to ask questions.


I agree that this may be an issue...hence why I am asking. =)

However, I am not afraid to ask questions...not by any means.

What I meant was that I have a very difficult time asking someone for their time. I often feel that I am imposing or that I am bothering folks. And I have phobia of being perceived as an imposition or a bother. Not trying to psychoanalyze myself here…but what I was trying to get at was…my response to that question would be very much like what you answered Mol. In that yes a RL teacher would help but at the same time you can do well on your own…especially with a study group. It’s just with my ‘handicap’, ‘shortcoming’ or whatever you want to call it…I wonder if I am not fooling myself. Hence I asked for outside confirmation. Heh…I sound like a total nut. LOL

Does that make sense though?


Originally posted by mol
The benefit we have here is that we are not truly alone. We can practice solitarily, but then use this group to study and analyze our progress. We have the best of both worlds.


Amen brother Mol! I am looking forward to it greatly.

BTW – I am ‘booked’…arrived today!

mol
June 10th, 2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Toad

Does that make sense though?


Indeed, it does.


Originally posted by Toad
BTW – I am ‘booked’…arrived today!

Great! Don't skip ahead. ;)

Toad
June 10th, 2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by mol

Great! Don't skip ahead. ;)

BOOO! :wah:

Ben Trismegistus
June 10th, 2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Toad

What I meant was that I have a very difficult time asking someone for their time. I often feel that I am imposing or that I am bothering folks. And I have phobia of being perceived as an imposition or a bother. Not trying to psychoanalyze myself here…but what I was trying to get at was…my response to that question would be very much like what you answered Mol. In that yes a RL teacher would help but at the same time you can do well on your own…especially with a study group. It’s just with my ‘handicap’, ‘shortcoming’ or whatever you want to call it…I wonder if I am not fooling myself. Hence I asked for outside confirmation. Heh…I sound like a total nut. LOL


Then perhaps one of the benefits of your magickal study with Mol will be disciplining yourself to move past your aversion to asking others for help.

After all, if magic is about changing yourself in conformity with Will, perhaps this is a change you can manifest in yourself through your work. And don't think of it as a "shortcoming" -- asking for help is very difficult. I can absolutely relate to the feeling of not wanting to be an imposition or a bother. But realize that Mol would not have started this lesson if he didn't intend to help us - otherwise what would be the point? So, if you're interested in changing this aspect of yourself, you can think about gaining the humility to be able to ask the help of another, and being able to trust mol to be honest with you if you're being a bother. Just something to think about.

And to answer your original question, my personal bias is that learning comes faster with a teacher/mentor. Not that a really talented solitary can't become proficient on his own, but it's always a help to have someone with more experience who you can bounce ideas off of, and who can tell you if you're on the right track.

mol
June 11th, 2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Toad
BOOO! :wah:

I think most everyone listed 'Patience' as a very important feature of a Magician. :)

Toad
June 11th, 2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by mol

I think most everyone listed 'Patience' as a very important feature of a Magician. :)

Yes...they did. And I still disobeyed....well sort of. I didn’t truly read any of it. I just skimmed it a bit to get a feel for what was in store. I see why you choose this book Mol. On the surface it appears to be an excellent syllabus.

I promise I wont read ahead. :bigredgri

mol
June 11th, 2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Toad

Yes...they did. And I still disobeyed....well sort of. I didn’t truly read any of it. I just skimmed it a bit to get a feel for what was in store. I see why you choose this book Mol. On the surface it appears to be an excellent syllabus.

I promise I wont read ahead. :bigredgri

Well, you can read the intro, etc..thats what we are covering right now in the discussion.

Toad
June 11th, 2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by mol

Well, you can read the intro, etc..thats what we are covering right now in the discussion.

I accepted the braid...and the high priest groaned. :devil:

Semele
June 11th, 2003, 12:42 PM
I'm late but I'm here!


1. Why do you want to work magic?

Because I prefer to cause or at least have some control over my life and the things that happen, rather than blindly trust that things will work out.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Complete determination. With this comes most of the attributes already listed here, such as patience and discipline.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

Well yes, but only because Mol discussed it with me. I KNEW this idea, just not this particular name for it.

Semele
June 11th, 2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Ben Trismegistus
Not that a really talented solitary can't become proficient on his own, but it's always a help to have someone with more experience who you can bounce ideas off of, and who can tell you if you're on the right track.

As a firm believer in group study sessions, I have always thought it is great to bounce ideas off of fellow students. Also to teach an idea you understand better than the other person often solidifies it in your own mind. Like if you understand point A a little and I can't get it at all, if you explain to me what it says to you..it opens up a whole new world for both of us to expand on and then I may have my own ideas pop up and share those with you and on and on.

Silver_Alhena
June 11th, 2003, 04:15 PM
Any space for a late entrant?

1) The best way I can describe Magic and Ritual is that to me, it's like an 'animated prayer,' a two-way worship in which I am a totally involved from start to finish, rather than a bored spectator. Magic and ritual are two-way - you have to give something back (the Ritual part) as well as 'taking' (the Magic part).

2) The 'lesser graces' - Justice, Prudence, Temperence and Fortitute.
Justice - for my motives, reasons and intent.
Prudence - to make the right decisions as to when, where and how magic should be used.
Temperence - primarily means patience, but also means to me 'a little bit at a time' i.e. not trying to do too much, too quickly. Fortitute - mental strength, plus being able cope/deal with any unexpected consequences.

Quoting Rhyla...
3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
I gathered the meaning by what the quote says, along the lines of kitchen magic. As I see now...Nope.

That was my first thought when I read the question. Or I thought it might be something about Magic starting in the home, before taking it outside down the path.. Literally changing yourself, your attitude and actions before ever attempting to use Magic on someone else.

mol
June 12th, 2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Silver_Alhena

Any space for a late entrant?


Always!

So, do we want to go ahead and continue? Is there anyone who wants us to wait so you can grab the book? If so, speak now...otherwise we are off to the races.

Toad
June 12th, 2003, 03:53 PM
<---- Ready to Run

WillowSageheart
June 12th, 2003, 06:01 PM
Ditto... I can't wait to see what's next!

Xentor
June 12th, 2003, 07:10 PM
I just ordered a copy of the book, but please don't wait for me. I'll catch up.

shiloki
June 13th, 2003, 12:18 AM
wait for me!!!

1. i seem to have the opposite problem of most of you...i suffer from a lack of control in my life...this is one reason i would like to learn...so i can better control the events in my life and see more clearly the decisions i could or should make....i also, like many of you, have always seemed to be drawn toward the more mystereous and mystical heartbeat of the world....to be honest, though..........i still don't know if magik is possible....like, real magik, not top hats and bunnies and stuff.....i can still discuss, right??

2. patience, patience, patience...a key word....also....intense curiousity, empathy and acceptance of all possibilities....

3. i kinda figured that's what it meant.......

i forgot the name of the book we're supposed to get, but i'll go back and find it...tomorrow's payday, maybe i'll treat myself :)

oh, and is there a way to help me find this thread again in the future more easily....i seem to have a problem getting lost on this BB...it's soo big!

mol
June 13th, 2003, 10:03 AM
Everyone is welcome to join in at any time. Dont worry...just start working from the first lesson and go through them in order. :D We will probably wait until Monday to start the next step to give folks time to get books and for late bloomers to join in...

mol
June 13th, 2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by shiloki
1. i seem to have the opposite problem of most of you...i suffer from a lack of control in my life...this is one reason i would like to learn...so i can better control the events in my life and see more clearly the decisions i could or should make

Hmm. Well, explain this a little bit. One thing that I agree with the author about is: the "Path of the Hearth Fire".

Toad
June 13th, 2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by mol

I agree with the author about is the "Path of the Hearth Fire".

I will second this thought.

Xentor
June 13th, 2003, 03:59 PM
oh, and is there a way to help me find this thread again in the future more easily....i seem to have a problem getting lost on this BB...it's soo big!

Just below the space where you type your comment, are a couple of options.
In the new incarnation of these forums, look for the option that says "Thread Subscription:" and set it to "Instant notification by email". Every comment posted in this thread will be sent to your e-mail box.

This is a kind of subscription. And you can find all the threads you're subscribed to using your user control panel (look for it at the top of the page, the buttons and links are changing right now).

WillowSageheart
June 13th, 2003, 05:59 PM
1) The best way I can describe Magic and Ritual is that to me, it's like an 'animated prayer,' a two-way worship in which I am a totally involved from start to finish, rather than a bored spectator. Magic and ritual are two-way - you have to give something back (the Ritual part) as well as 'taking' (the Magic part).

What a wonderful way of putting it! I hadn't really thought about it that way before.

shiloki
June 13th, 2003, 10:38 PM
Hmm. Well, explain this a little bit. One thing that I agree with the author about is: the "Path of the Hearth Fire".
well, i feel like i am more of a specator in my own life rather than a participant...i just kinda float along waiting to see what happens instead of taking an active role in what i am doing....i feel unfocused and disconnected and in my study of magik and wicca, focus seems to be a big part of working magik...if i learn magik, i will need to learn to focus...if i learn to focus, i can begin to participate in my own life for a change...and tho i understand the concept of the "path of the harth fire" i can't say i can relate since i don't know what my life purpose is....

Xentor
June 14th, 2003, 11:10 AM
I just ordered a copy of the book, but please don't wait for me. I'll catch up.


Just received the book. I'm game!

mol
June 15th, 2003, 03:22 AM
Lets give everyone until Monday and then we will start. Looking forward to it!

Fairywolf
June 15th, 2003, 11:25 PM
I am late ~out of breath~ sorry!

First question now that is a kinda tough one, I personally belive that I want to be able to do magick is because I belive it can bring me closer to the things I love most in life, nature, god/dess. To me magick is everything and everyhting is magickal. So to do magick is to be natural. Make sense?

Now for the second question I belive everybody is a good magician. Everybody has it in them they just have to tap into there resourses.

And now for the third question since the answer has been posted I will go ahead and say what I thought it was: I thought it had to do with the home hence HEARTH but how it had to do with the home I was uncertian I thought it had to do with how you lived your life. Passion= fire and if you live your life with passion your hearth (home) will be filled with fire (not in a bad way) and your life will be filled with well, life. Never dull.


I will not be able to get a book just yet but if I read along hopefully I will be able to keep up! :crystalba

mol
June 18th, 2003, 11:14 AM
To me magick is everything and everyhting is magickal. So to do magick is to be natural. Make sense?

Actually, thats the answer to number 3.

I will be posting the next module today, hopefully!

Toad
June 18th, 2003, 12:01 PM
I will be posting the next module today, hopefully!


:dancy:

materra
June 18th, 2003, 05:09 PM
I am playing catch up here...I will be getting the book, but I don't have it yet.

1. Why do you want to work magic?

All my life I have seen the world as a breath taking magical place that I don't quite grasp. I don't fit into the regular world because I saw magic in the sun rise, a bird's flight, a child's laugh. I want to understand. I want a few answers to my why? I want to enjoy it all the more. I think it, the magic, would be a chance to heal.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Lots of the same things the other's have said...and yet more. I think there needs to be a kinda of bend of mind to grasp it. A large dose of creativity and imagination mixed in practicality. Some Common sense. A bit of fun. Practice and Patience.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

Not when I first saw this. I think this is the hardest part but the best part. When I lived in my faith things came to me more easilly...including dealing with the disappointments. Lately I have lost that...so I need to learn it all again.

mol
June 18th, 2003, 11:14 PM
Not when I first saw this. I think this is the hardest part but the best part. When I lived in my faith things came to me more easilly...including dealing with the disappointments. Lately I have lost that...so I need to learn it all again.

This might be a misconception.

The author speaks of this term not in living and walking in faith...or Path...or anything. It's more about finding your true Will and doing that. If your true Will was to be a fireman, but you are working as an account...most likely you will have a hard time persuing your Work (Magic). When you have holes in your life, sometimes you just cant help think about them...and this tends to get in the way.

Fairywolf
June 18th, 2003, 11:29 PM
Never thought of it like that before mayhaps that is some of my problem. Sometimes.

shiloki
June 19th, 2003, 12:08 AM
I will be posting the next module today, hopefully!

:T oh, good....then i haven't missed anything!....i will be waiting patiently for further instruction....:smile:

Pan
June 19th, 2003, 01:26 AM
I'm late! Sorry, I'll serve my detention at the end of class!





1. Why do you want to work magic?

I've never actually answered this question before. I guess I want to work magic for a couple of reasons, not all of them good, I suppose.

Working magic gives me a strong sense of self. It lets me express myself in ways that many people don't feel they can. That might not be the best of reasons, but it boosts my confidence as well as enhances the way that I look at things.

Another reason is because it makes me feel that I can change what's around me. Oftentimes, I don't feel I can change much of anything because it's too complicated. Rather like trying to move out of a place that's falling apart and into something stable. Literally. In a situation like this, I feel weak and uninspired. With magic in the mix, I can do a calming ritual to help myself think more clearly. Normally, a situation like this would leave my mind hurting and frustrated and I would never know how to calm down. Magic gives me control on myself.




2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Hm, I've never thought of this one either. There's a couple things that I feel are needed to be a good magician.

Belief in yourself. This above all is important. Without belief in yourself, how can you believe in anything around you? I don't think it works that way, personally.

Curiosity. This could be an important factor, too. Without it, what would be your drive to learn? You'd be content to know what you know and that's all that you'd know.

Determination. Be determined to learn new things. Be determined to try again if you fail. In magic, there's bound to be failure, and if you're going to give up after one try ... why try at all?

Love and Trust. These are integral to life itself, I believe. Without them, we would all be huddling masses of fear, paranoia, and hatred. You have to love what you do in magic, and you have to trust those you work with.

WILL. You have to have this no matter what. The will to do something and the will to carry it out.


3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

I skipped over Mol's definition of it, but I'll give it a guess and go read back afterwards.

With the hearth fire, I think of the home. A sort of path of the home and an inner path. Wherever you are, your home is, too. A house is things and objects, but a home is a feeling. The Path of the Hearth Fire could mean the path of yourself. The path of the home within you, and the will burning inside. For without that fire of the will, what is there? A pile of ashes that no phoenix may rise from.


That's it! I know it was kinda long, and I'm sorry. :sadeyes:

*goes off to detention*

Rain Gnosis
June 19th, 2003, 10:52 AM
so.. have I missed the next module?

edit - oops, my bad - it's stuck (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=28391)

Scarlettvixen
June 21st, 2003, 04:22 AM
ok im late too!
here are my answers to mols questions before i go off and start reading the next module

1. Why do you want to work magic?
im not sure that i do want to work magic
but i havent really chosen a path
to make that choice (and i know i dont have to make a choice) i feel the need to explore the many different ways within paganism. this seems like an excellant opportunity to gain a better understanding of magic

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?
i think a good magician should be someone able to see the consequences of their actions. if u r going to go change things u r going to affect other things and i think u need to be able to see what will happen.
i agree with the other posters that you need dedication, will and patience.


3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
well the hearth fire means the home to me, so i thought this meant the path of yr life and home, not to far from Mols description!

WillowSageheart
June 21st, 2003, 04:23 PM
so.. have I missed the next module?

edit - oops, my bad - it's stuck (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=28391)

Where is it stuck? What have I missed?

Rain Gnosis
June 21st, 2003, 09:15 PM
click the words "it's stuck" :)

it's stuck to the top of this forum.

Bainidhe Dub
June 24th, 2003, 10:37 AM
I hope I'm not too late lol. My book is on it's way according to Amazon. And here's my answers to the questions.

Q. Why do you want to work magic?
A. I’ve thought long and hard about this one. I’m quite sick of leaving what happens to me up to “destiny”, because truthfully my “destiny” has sucked so far. By using magic, I feel I can bring the positive change into my life that I need. Plus, it is a control thing – before now I haven’t had much control over my life. Now I have the control, confidence and discipline to do the things I’ve always wanted to, but have been too scared to go ahead and do them.

Q. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?
A. I think that a good magician is confident in his or her abilities and knows their limits, yet tries to stretch these boundaries, constantly testing themselves, because a good magician is also always learning.

Q. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
A. Truthfully I have no clue, but I’m interested in finding out lol.

SylverStar
July 1st, 2003, 07:18 AM
Ok I'm a late one too. I haven't got the book yet but I promise I will I get paid soon.

As for the questions

Why do you want to work magic?
I want to be able to control my own life. To me magic is doing your will and creating the balance you need in life.

What do you think is needed to be a good magician? I think patience and knowledge.

Do you know what is meant be "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
I have no idea. Guessing something to do with home and family.

Zander770
July 1st, 2003, 08:01 AM
Not EVER (well???) and! not only that but i TOO have yet to purchase her text (i WILL by this weekend . . . 'cause i've got to get duquette's The Chicken Caballa, as well, so . . .)


1. Why do you want to work magic?

i started as as a magician (a "stage magician") very early on in life. my mother's "psychic," as is her part of the clan, the Rowley's, &c. like writing, for me, i cannot NOT "do it." albeit a lot of the time(s) i DID or HAVE "dropped out" and stopped--from 1996-2000 i did NO TAROT nor MAGICK (reading texts', writing about it, nada) No-Thing, because . . . (p.m. me, if you care to . . . e-mail, rather.)



2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

the same thing you need to be a Good pilot of an aeroplane or a cruising vessel; a wood-wright or a playwright; a waitress or an actress, a shepherd or a (enough already!!!), i suppose:

one must be Good STUDENT and even a Better TEACHER (hence: "the TEACHER now learns from the PUPIL, grasshopper," et. al., mantras, &c). it's the same all over, isn't it? the Archetypal Images; the Arcanum--A Mystery. the slogan: "as above, so below" is so, too.

many, Many, MANY other "things" and "twists" & "turns" and Luck and Other People and . . . could i instead just tell you: "what i think it takes to be a BAD MAGICIAN," in lieu of the former question? anyone? any . . .



3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

no, sirree, i do not know, yet, what exactly might be "meant" by that phrase, above. (i DO assume that this WILL be on the Final, however, tho, correct? anyone? any . . .)

93 93/93

thank you, mol.


Demon Est Deus Inversus = "the devil is god inverted."
(--W.B. Yeats' Golden Dawn order motto; 7 March 1890)

mol
July 1st, 2003, 10:25 AM
Why do you want to work magic?
I want to be able to control my own life.

You should be able to do this without Magic, shouldn't you?

SylverStar
July 2nd, 2003, 04:52 AM
Yes bad pharsing. I feel magic helps me focus on my goals and to realize what I need to do to bring about that change. That's still worded badly. I'm an airhead sometimes so it helps bring me down to earth. If I sit down and focus on creating change I spend more time doing what I need to do instead of just thinking about it.

SkySilver
July 28th, 2003, 08:00 PM
Talk about late, I am really late! But here goes my answers anyway.... Hope to catch up with everyone soon.

Why do I want to work Magick?
I think Magick is a fun way of connecting with the divine. I enjoy expressing my love for God in ritual. Its a great way for me to move things along in my life - the way I want them to go.

What do I think is needed to be a good magician?
I think it is simply the willingness to open yourself up to new ways of doing things in your life. You also need to open yourself to learning. Because no matter how experienced you are at something you will always find something new to learn.

As for the "Path of the Hearth Fire"..... I have no idea what that means but I will read through everyone's ideas. :)

Seabreeze0197
July 31st, 2003, 12:05 AM
Anyone else with us here?

Without reading through all 9 pages of posts here....am I too late? I just ordered the book off of half.com and will do it on my own if it's too late to join the "class"....:) Please let me know!

mol
July 31st, 2003, 10:02 AM
Yes bad pharsing. I feel magic helps me focus on my goals and to realize what I need to do to bring about that change. That's still worded badly. I'm an airhead sometimes so it helps bring me down to earth. If I sit down and focus on creating change I spend more time doing what I need to do instead of just thinking about it.
That makes a lot more sense! :D

mol
July 31st, 2003, 10:02 AM
Without reading through all 9 pages of posts here....am I too late? I just ordered the book off of half.com and will do it on my own if it's too late to join the "class"....:) Please let me know!
It's not too late. Just catch on up with us. :)

Toad
July 31st, 2003, 10:37 AM
Hey cool! Welcome Seabreeze!

Seabreeze0197
July 31st, 2003, 12:00 PM
Thanks, Mol & Toad. :) I guess I'll read through those pages of posts now and try and catch up! http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

mol
August 11th, 2003, 10:35 AM
Looking forward to your input.

CanisFirebrand
August 13th, 2003, 08:51 AM
Well, I too am late in joining the discussion, but I will post my thoughts and get the book ordered and catch up so I can participate more. :)

On an aside, I love your avatar mol.... :D
You should have a discussion on burninating and see how many people get it... ;)

Back to the topic.

1. Why do you want to work magic?

Kind of a background story, but I'll get to the answer of the question soon. I promise.

Growing up, I've never really been into any sort of orgainzed religion. I was baptised as an infent in the lutherian church. Which in and of itself is strange since my fathers side is all catholic, mothers side is lutherian.
As a child, I recall going to church occasionally with my family.
It just never clicked for me and growing up, once I learned more, I considered myself agnostic. I knew there were higher powers at work, I just didn't know who or what or how.

My reasons for wanting to work magick is to be more intune with my surroundings and to feel a sense or oneness with my environment. I've always felt energy eminating from trees, plants and such and could tell there are things going on that aren't quite visible to the naked eye.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Definetly practice and a strong belief in what you are doing. If you are just "going through the motions" I don't think you will achieve any sort of results. You have to conentrate and believe in what you are doing.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

I too am not quite sure of the meaning of the phrase. I could hazard a guess, but I defeintly wouldn't try to fake my knowledge of the phrase.

I look forward to catching up and participating with everyone involved in these discussions.

Now, off I go to purchase the book.

Hippywitch
August 22nd, 2003, 02:35 PM
Just to let you know you have another pupil/fellow traveller on these threads.
Only joined MW this month but these threads were just too interesting to pass on. I'm hunting for the book and trying to decide about my Temple space...
Catching up by reading all posts thus far... posted on meditation discussion thread as that and the self-purifying are about all I can manage with any regularity at the mo.
Cheers Mol and Toad!
:fpraiseyo

Seabreeze0197
August 24th, 2003, 09:41 PM
Looking forward to your input.

Hey, sorry to leave you hangin' like that!! Been pretty crazy around me lately. I actually started the workbook and decided that I'll go ahead and do it on my own and read posts as I'm able to. I'm in the process of becoming a certified aromatherapist as well and I am going to focus primarily on that right now and then dive into my workbook and this class. I chose it secondly because it is really a "lifelong" type of learning and my aromatherapy certification should only take me a couple months. :) I'll try and follow along when I can!!
Thanks for your help, Mol!!

Elise
September 3rd, 2003, 03:01 PM
I just found this thread through the September newsletter, and I must admit, I've been rather quiet since joining. This last month has been rather hectic (with five of six kids at home). After years of being exposed to many "religions" growing up and always having questions no one could answer, I've come to believe I have more control over things that happen in my life than I ever thought I had before, and it's ok to use magic to have control over events in my life.


1. Why do I want to work magic?
Because I have come to believe life isn't just a game of chance and coincidence, and through magic I can exert more control over what happens in my life. I also believe that through magic I can protect myself from the unwanted influences of others

2. What makes a good magician?

I think the number one need is patience, Patience to learn and grow in the knowledge of the craft and all things spiritual. I grew up physically challenged and learned patience long ago, and have learned even more in raising six daughters and dealing with an alcoholic spouse. Dedication and committment are important too

3. What is the "Path of the Hearth Fire"?

To be honest I didn't know what this was and had never heard the phrase before reading this thread.
Looking forward to learning and growing :-)

Toad
September 3rd, 2003, 03:08 PM
Welcome aboard Elise!

owlladyuk
September 3rd, 2003, 06:19 PM
Hi, it's been a while since I've been here, is it still okay for me to join all of you? This seems to be just what I've been looking for.

Sam

Toad
September 3rd, 2003, 10:21 PM
Hi, it's been a while since I've been here, is it still okay for me to join all of you? This seems to be just what I've been looking for.

Sam


Is it OK? Why of course it is...please join us!

RubyRose
September 4th, 2003, 08:43 AM
Just a little note to ppl who may or may not stumble across this thread in the future ... I'm still at the early stages of this thread ... so bear with me guys ...

1. Why do you want to work magic?
Because it makes sense to work for what you want rather than just be handed it. To suceed you have to work at it.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?
Patience ... hard work and maybe a bit of skill

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
Wouldn't have a clue ... but I'm sure by the end of this thread, I'll have a lovely idea of what it means

Toad
September 4th, 2003, 10:15 AM
Welcome aboard Ruby! =)

owlladyuk
September 4th, 2003, 05:19 PM
My answers.. well here goes...

Why do you want to work magic?

I feel there is magic all around, and to be able to understand and learn from it would be a wonderful thing.

Don't you ever wish someone luck or good health, and they get better? or they finally get something they deserve?

I also would like to work my magic and people's own magic in a good way.

What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Belief in all things, patience and trust in what you do.

Do you know what is meant by the "Path of the Heath Fire"?

I didn't really know this, until I read all of your messages, but yes what is said is quite clear. I take it to mean, that everything that happens on the path that you have chosen is all put there for you to learn from. Whereas I have been interested in wicca/witchcraft for a long time, it is only recently (after everything I have been through) that I can understand and take in the things that we are learning now.

Hope I haven't rabbited on too long...

mol
September 4th, 2003, 05:26 PM
What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Belief in all things, patience and trust in what you do..

Welcome aboard! Ok...so expand on that real quick. What do you mean, "Belief in all things" ?

owlladyuk
September 4th, 2003, 05:39 PM
I mean everything, fate, life, spirits, feelings, nature, everything really.

mol
September 5th, 2003, 10:24 AM
I mean everything, fate, life, spirits, feelings, nature, everything really.
Hmm. Ok.

All right, then why is it important to believe in 'fate' to be a magician? Why do you feel it is important to 'believe' in everything to be a magician?

:) Im not drilling you. Hopefully I am encouraging more thoughts.

owlladyuk
September 5th, 2003, 01:05 PM
Ok I believe in fate to be a magician, because if, for example, you did some magic and it didn't work the way you wanted it (if at all), it would be fate's way of telling you something, which could be that more learning is required or something else should happen instead etc.

Why do I need to believe in everything to be a magician? I feel that you need to believe in everything that you may use to help you towards your magic so becoming a magician. You believe the spirits will help you in what ever you do, will draw you to the right words and right meanings.

When you do magic, you need specific things, if you believe that magic should be done then those specific things will be found. They will either appear or you will find the object you were looking for. You must have had that in every day life? Something you haven't seen for such a long time just appears.. do you not call that fate? Or is that something else? What about when you hear someone you care about is not very well, you intend to call them to wish them well, and they call you to see how you are, and say that they are feeling better already? This is, of course, belief in yourself that you can do magic, but surely the belief has to be there...?

mol
September 5th, 2003, 01:47 PM
I am not questioning your line of thinking...rather allowing you to question yourself. This is a very important part of magic in and of itself. I can see where you are going with your line of thinking. Keep going forward in the studies!

StormyRavenNightWind
September 6th, 2003, 05:07 PM
Ok. Reading through the introduction the author proposes a few questions before undertaking the year long month-by-month study. A few of them I think that are really important I will ask here and we can discuss..

1. Why do you want to work magic? Because I was born to:)

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician? Patience, love, understanding of the earth, understanding Karma, tolerance and dedication, believing in what you do and knowing that it will work.

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?" Doing what you do in life and doing it to the best of your ability. I am a stay at home mom and I am very good at it, or if your in another profession it is doing that but doing your best and knowing that this is what you do.

So...I will start off with a few thoughts of my own. The author goes into some answers to these questions, but as I stated before...I am not really interested in the information provided by the author as much as the framework.

1. Why do I want to work magic?

Honestly? I am a control freak. I always have been. I want to be in control of every aspect of my life and I think that magic can help me achieve that goal. But, I have also always been drawn to the study of magic and the occult. It intrigues me because I am a very curious person. I like solving problems which is why I am now a software engineer.

2. What makes a good magician?

Well, I would say a good deal of patience. This is something I have had to learn because I didnt have a lot of patience growing up. Only after a few kids am I confident enough to say I have the patience to try and take on the deeper study of magic. I think that a magician needs to have some good problem solving skills and good research skills. In this day and age I think a mastery of the internet is a BIG PLUS! There is so much information on the internet if one can just find it. I know that my library has expanded exponentially because of the virtual texts I have found across the net. The ease of aquiring tools is also a great plus of the internet. And of course, the exchange of information and discussion like we are doing right now shows the pwer of the internet. Math skills have shown to be a big plus in studying Crowley I will tell you this. Above all I think that one must have a sense of humor about God, magic, spirituality, and life. A good sense of humor and the ability to step back and laugh at your mistakes is very important.

3. What is the "Path of the Hearth Fire"?

Actually I didnt know it, but I knew this! I that makes any sense. I didnt know it was called this. Rather than spill the beans I will wait and see what you all have to say about this topic before I say any more.

Lets go people! Discuss!

kathryn-j
October 10th, 2003, 10:57 PM
Before I post, I must state that I am relatively new to magic (I have only been researching it for about 2 years), and although I feel a strong ?pull? towards paganism/witchcraft, I am not entirely sure if it is the path I wish to choose (I am 16). However, I cannot decide until I have learnt as much as I can, so I am going to put myself into learning as much as I can. (Oh, and I don't think I can get the book ... but I will follow as best I can!)

1. Why do you want to work magic?
Because I feel that, like mol said, sometimes I can be a control freak (over my own life), but also because it seems to be an unlimited source of learning in a direction which I feel is right for me. Because I think it is the most wonderful and amazing thing to be able to work with and within nature, and as owllady uk said, if something does not go as it is meant to, to know that it was probably just meant to be that way.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?
Dedication, persistence when needed, udnerstanding, thought(fulness), a questioning mind, a willingness to constantly be learning, and an affiliation (of sorts) with nature. And as someone (I'm sorry, I can't remember who!) said, to be curious.


3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"
Um ... I kinda cheated on this one by accident, and read some of the posts (including the answer) before I decided to join ... but if I have interpreted it correctly, I believe it is in some sense the religion of life ... of being oneself?

hedgecub
November 13th, 2003, 10:18 AM
I'm late, I'm late! *rushes in clutching bookbag*

*dashes up to a desk* Is there still room for me? *looks hopeful*

- little cub

mol
November 13th, 2003, 11:04 AM
I'm late, I'm late! *rushes in clutching bookbag*

*dashes up to a desk* Is there still room for me? *looks hopeful*

- little cub
Of course! Just take off with it... :)

hedgecub
November 14th, 2003, 08:43 AM
Hewwo again from your late arrival :)

*sits down at a desk and fishes out her pencilcase*

1. Why do you want to work magic?

I want to have an additional method of influencing the universe. I want to be able to help people I couldn't otherwise help. I want more control over my life. I feel drawn to magic, and I want to become more in tune with my true nature and with the universe.

2. What do you think is needed to be a good magician?

Concentration, imagination, honesty, patience, and a lot of hard work! :graduate:

3. Do you know what is mean by the "Path of the Hearth Fire?"

I do now! *is a naughty cub who read ahead in the book* :reading:
I think I'm doing okay staying on the Path of the Hearth Fire (so far, anyways :)). I'm studying for my degree at Uni, which will hopefully lead to a job I enjoy, I'm slowly working through my various mental health problems with the help of my GP and therapist, and I'm patiently waiting for my mate to graduate, do his military service, get a job, and earn some money so he can buy me an engagement ring :D
I'll try to keep all this in mind during the course of my magical studies. Hopefully I'll still have everything in perspective so I don't get so lost amongst the herbs and oils that I lose sight of the rest of my life :)

*writes her name neatly at the top of the paper and hands it in* :D

- little cub

Gebo
August 18th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Well, I was in the MW chat room and Toad mentioned finishing this thread. I had been looking at it only a few minutes before. I am going to order the book and play catch up in a major way!

Why do you want to work magic?b
The time is right. Everything has shifted, allowing me the time to study. Many aspects of my life are pointing me down this path.

What is needed to be a successful magician?
Patience and an open mind. No limitations on your potential.

I did not know what "path of the hearth fire" was, but I do now.

Toad
August 18th, 2004, 05:57 PM
Well, I was in the MW chat room and Toad mentioned finishing this thread. I had been looking at it only a few minutes before. I am going to order the book and play catch up in a major way!

Why do you want to work magic?b
The time is right. Everything has shifted, allowing me the time to study. Many aspects of my life are pointing me down this path.

What is needed to be a successful magician?
Patience and an open mind. No limitations on your potential.

I did not know what "path of the hearth fire" was, but I do now.


Hold up a sec!


I am going to do this course...but this thread at best will be tagged as reference.

Check out the COT: Ceremonial Magic forum. I will be starting off in the next couple days =)

Gebo
August 19th, 2004, 08:21 AM
Thanks. Will do.