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mol
June 18th, 2003, 11:52 PM
First things first. If you have not even looked at the Introductory phase thread then please do so now before continuing. There will be plenty of discussion and no one will mind discussing a passed phase I am sure. Please follow the discussion in order. Go here to view the Introductory Phase thread:

http://geekjello.com/mw/showthread.php?threadid=27911

If you have already participated in that thread...then please continue on.

So, here we are. Month 1 of 12. I hope you are ready for some exciting and boring times. The first order of business is the Temple. But first, lets discuss the ideas behind the Magician's Temple.

The author is very rigid in the way she describes how the Temple should be built, where it should be placed, how it should be decorated, and the list goes on. Most of you, especially the eclectics will be cursing this saying, "Bah! We dont need to do it this way...Ive done it my way for YEARS!" Well, this is whole different system you are studying here. Ritual Magic is built upon discipline and tradition. And the two go hand in hand. Now with that said, let me tell you I have had quite a bit of success pursuing my Work and I have never built a standing Temple. But, progress has been slow for me and maybe this could be one of the reasons. What do you think?

The author basically says that the temple should be placed in an area where you will not be disturbed and preferably by a window. Once the area is marked where the Temple will be then the student must clean. Really clean. Scrub the walls, the floor, the ceiling. If you are going to paint then choose a nice soothing tone. But, before you paint...you must still clean the area. Now, here is where our real discussion begins.

The author describes the area needed as a room with 4 actual walls...now how many of you have an extra room to dedicate as a Temple? Will the Work of the Magician be hindered if the proper Temple is not built?

The author actually does touch on a very important point, but only briefly which leaves me confused. The actual Temple of the Magician is inside of you. The physical Temple, once completed will most likely not be used very much as we go on. Ritual Magic is based upon symbolism. The creation of the physical Temple is a representation of what you are going to be doing on the inside of your Self in the months to come. Keep that in mind as we discuss how and where we will build our Temples. Pictures are welcome. Snap a shot and attach them if you want to show the area you are considering.

A quick note that is very important. The Temple should hopefully be in a place that can be left. Meaning...it should be somewhere that it can be left standing. You can, if needed, tear the Temple down every time, but keep in mind that it must be re-consecrated each time you construct it.

In fact, there is an option of using a Temple cloth! How about that? Just rip your table cloth off the table and...just kidding. The actual cloth is very detailed. I will post a picture of it tomorrow and describe it a little more. This is actually one of the things Semele and I are considering doing. She likes to sew and I dont like to paint. :D

Ok. I wont go into any more detail yet, lets discuss it for a few days and then work on something else.

For all of you with the book, do NOT go past this page:

Pg 33 - Preparation of Self

Fairywolf
June 19th, 2003, 12:05 AM
. But, progress has been slow for me and maybe this could be one of the reasons. What do you think?


I don't personally see how this could be one of the reasons but as I learn more I might change my mind.:)

Lunacie
June 19th, 2003, 10:39 AM
I am pretty good at vizualizations, and long ago built a safe haven in my mind based loosely on a visit to a forest in Colorado which I can still recall very quickly and completely although it's been awhile since I spent any time in meditation there.

So ~ I am wondering, would it work to create a Temple in my imagination, going through all the steps from constructing it and cleaning it, to consecrating it? (Of course I don't know how to consecrate it... yet.)

If not, then I will probably have to use a tv tray and the altar cloth, once I learn more about how to make that.

Edited for missing punctuation.

mol
June 19th, 2003, 10:45 AM
So ~ I am wondering, would it work to create a Temple in my imagination, going through all the steps from constructing it and cleaning it, to consecrating it? (Of course I don't know how to consecrate it... yet.)

If not, then I will probably have to use a tv tray and the altar cloth, once I learn more about how to make that.

I really think it is important to build something physical, first. The cloth you are talking about is not an altar cloth. It is a Ritual cloth and it will be as big as a blanket. You would use it to perform your rituals on.

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 11:39 AM
I have had quite a bit of success pursuing my Work and I have never built a standing Temple. But, progress has been slow for me and maybe this could be one of the reasons. What do you think?

Well the author would certainly lead you to believe that it is essential to your progress. Admittedly, I am coming from a vantage of relative inexperience. I take the authors insistence that the temple is mandatory as a means of training the mind that when you are in the temple its time to work. Having a sacred place in which to do this work seems to be advantageous. I gather that the more clues you can assemble to help the brain settle into ‘magic’ mode the more readily you can make this ‘mode’ second nature. The more the ‘mode’ is second nature the more effective the ritual/meditation/visualization/etc will be.

Again, this is coming from a rank beginner…but its readily apparent that when I am doing some sort of work, whether it be spell or simple meditation…the more focused I am the more successful I am. Thankfully I come from a background of several years of Transcendental Meditation…I am quite adept at ‘slowing my mind down’. I can only begin to imagine someone attempting this work who is starting with no background in meditation…I would guess that this is an extreme chore (training the mind to enter this mode of operation that is).

I see the temple as a powerful tool in helping to train the aspiring magician to enter this state of mind at will.



The author describes the area needed as a room with 4 actual walls...now how many of you have an extra room to dedicate as a Temple? Will the Work of the Magician be hindered if the proper Temple is not built?

I would dearly love to have the space to dedicate to a temple. However, unless I uproot a child, or perform some sort of major house modification/addition I simply do not have a suitable space to do this.



The author actually does touch on a very important point, but only briefly which leaves me confused. The actual Temple of the Magician is inside of you. The physical Temple, once completed will most likely not be used very much as we go on. Ritual Magic is based upon symbolism. The creation of the physical Temple is a representation of what you are going to be doing on the inside of your Self in the months to come. Keep that in mind as we discuss how and where we will build our Temples.

I think I kind of explained my take on this above. But to reiterate…I think the temple is a tool used to help the magician train his mind to enter into the ‘magic mode’. When you are in the temple its time to work…it’s a clue to let your subconscious know that its time to put thoughts of flat tires and electric bills out of your conscious mind so that you can focus on the work in front of you.. I think that over time you will no longer need the temple to enter this mode…hence the more you grow and learn…the less you need the temple as you can enter this state at will. At least this is my best guess at this point…take it with a grain of salt.


A quick note that is very important. The Temple should hopefully be in a place that can be left. Meaning...it should be somewhere that it can be left standing. You can, if needed, tear the Temple down every time, but keep in mind that it must be re-consecrated each time you construct it.

I guess by the end of this year I will have the temple consecration down to a fine science!


In fact, there is an option of using a Temple cloth! How about that? Just rip your table cloth off the table and...just kidding. The actual cloth is very detailed. I will post a picture of it tomorrow and describe it a little more. This is actually one of the things Semele and I are considering doing. She likes to sew and I dont like to paint. :D

I have given some thought to the idea of building a temple in my garage. Using 2x4 and drywall I could turn some of my garage space into a suitable area for not a whole lot of cash. I could easily run heating, and air into this room. Electricity I could do as well…though I hate messing with electricity…I always manage to shock the piss out of myself at least once. I did put pencil to paper and I figure for less than $500 I could do a 12’ by 12’ ‘garage temple. Truthfully if I were going to stay in my current house I would do exactly that. However, our current plan is to sell this house in a couple years and upgrade. The next house will have a more permanent temple.

If anyone is interested in pursuing this option (garage conversion)…I have done similar renovations…and I will be happy to lend any help that I can.

I think I will be perusing the altar cloth option. It’s really the only viable option with my current living conditions. While I am no stranger to a sewing machine (only child with a sewing mother and grandmother)…I can’t say that I enjoy it…but I think I can struggle through the cloth.



For all of you with the book, do NOT go past this page:

Pg 33 - Preparation of Self

Mol – I am not going to lie to you. I have read the first chapter and I am working on some of the other projects that are outlined. There are a couple that I would like some discussion on before I dive into them…while there are others that I wanted to do even if you were to decide to drop them from this discussion. While I am not going to promise that I won’t read ahead or work on other things. I will promise that 1) I won’t discuss topics that haven’t been brought up previously 2) I will be here till the end. I took the visualization exercise in the introduction quite literally…I have accepted my braid and I will see fulfill that commitment. ;-)


Temple Cloth

First she gives very clear directions in the book for the cloth. A large new cloth…sew on a gold braid on the border and leave an open ‘doorway’ on the west side of the cloth. On the cloth a black and white pillar with a colored circle in the middle of the pillars to represent the elements. In the middle a 4 color circle corresponding to each of the elements. And to store it a silk lined linen bag. Check. All of this makes sense and should present no major problems.

My questions start with the color correspondence. The author uses blue for air in the east, red for fire in the south, green for water in the west and gold for earth in the north. Now perhaps I have simply been mistaken but for my work up to this point I have used…East /Air/Yellow - South/Fire/Red with West/Water/Blue – North/Earth/Green. I have also seen correspondence listed differently in different texts. What do you consider as correct color/direction for the different elements? Do you think its critical to have the correct color/direction? This may be a minor point…but its been giving me a lot of gas. I have seen so many different variations…and even some text that indicates that Crowley and others may have purposefully mislabeled correspondence in their writings in order to put off students that were not officially initiated. What are you thoughts here?

Temple Decorations

The author goes into detail about the kinds of decorations that should be used in the temple…wall colors and hangings for the various seasons. How do we incorporate this if we are using a temple cloth?

Storage

I just thought I would toss this out here as well. I own a two story house. Up to this point my bedroom (upstairs) has been my ‘temple’. Once my cloth is completed I will be working downstairs. I think it will be a hassle to carry candles, incense, tools, etc up and down the stairs. I recently went to an ‘unfinished furniture’ store and bought a lockable hope chest. This will be my downstairs storage for my temple cloth, tools and other supplies. The author is pretty specific that these items should be stored on their own and should not interact with other everyday items. This ‘magic chest’ is my solution.

I will get some pictures of this up online once its got its final stain and clear coats on it. I have also used some laser printer decal paper to great effect…more on this to follow as well. =)

Once again Mol…thanks for facilitating this discussion. If you can’t tell I am chomping at the bit over here. =)

mol
June 19th, 2003, 11:53 AM
I see the temple as a powerful tool in helping to train the aspiring magician to enter this state of mind at will.


That is probably one of the best definitions I have ever heard. Good show.



I would dearly love to have the space to dedicate to a temple. However, unless I uproot a child, or perform some sort of major house modification/addition I simply do not have a suitable space to do this.


Same boat here and I imagine a lot of folks are going to have to deal with this. That is why Magic in this day and age is vastly different than Magic of yesteryears. We are constantly adapting everything to our surroundings and culture.



I guess by the end of this year I will have the temple consecration down to a fine science!


At least!



I have given some thought to the idea of building a temple in my garage. Using 2x4 and drywall I could turn some of my garage space into a suitable area for not a whole lot of cash. I could easily run heating, and air into this room. Electricity I could do as well…though I hate messing with electricity…I always manage to shock the piss out of myself at least once. I did put pencil to paper and I figure for less than $500 I could do a 12’ by 12’ ‘garage temple. Truthfully if I were going to stay in my current house I would do exactly that. However, our current plan is to sell this house in a couple years and upgrade. The next house will have a more permanent temple.


I am in a similar boat here as well. I do have room in the garage to build a Temple, but I dunno.



I think I will be perusing the altar cloth option. It’s really the only viable option with my current living conditions. While I am no stranger to a sewing machine (only child with a sewing mother and grandmother)…I can’t say that I enjoy it…but I think I can struggle through the cloth.


I think this is definitely the option Semele and I will opt for. We will try to be as elaborate as possible to make sure the ritual of building the Temple is satisfied.




Temple Cloth

First she gives very clear directions in the book for the cloth. A large new cloth…sew on a gold braid on the border and leave an open ‘doorway’ on the west side of the cloth. On the cloth a black and white pillar with a colored circle in the middle of the pillars to represent the elements. In the middle a 4 color circle corresponding to each of the elements. And to store it a silk lined linen bag. Check. All of this makes sense and should present no major problems.

My questions start with the color correspondence. The author uses blue for air in the east, red for fire in the south, green for water in the west and gold for earth in the north. Now perhaps I have simply been mistaken but for my work up to this point I have used…East /Air/Yellow - South/Fire/Red with West/Water/Blue – North/Earth/Green. I have also seen correspondence listed differently in different texts. What do you consider as correct color/direction for the different elements? Do you think its critical to have the correct color/direction? This may be a minor point…but its been giving me a lot of gas.

Gas-x, my friend. Don't worry about the colors. Again, this is a visual tool. Its better to have a good color to associate with a specific thing but ultimately its up to you.



I have seen so many different variations…and even some text that indicates that Crowley and others may have purposefully mislabeled correspondence in their writings in order to put off students that were not officially initiated. What are you thoughts here?


Thats crapola.



Temple Decorations

The author goes into detail about the kinds of decorations that should be used in the temple…wall colors and hangings for the various seasons. How do we incorporate this if we are using a temple cloth?

You don't. Again, its a visual tool. Don't worry about it. Of course, you could always hang things on the wall, etc when you lay your Temple Cloth down.



Once again Mol…thanks for facilitating this discussion. If you can’t tell I am chomping at the bit over here. =)

Same here. I am enjoying myself!

Rain Gnosis
June 19th, 2003, 11:58 AM
I have seen so many different variations…and even some text that indicates that Crowley and others may have purposefully mislabeled correspondence in their writings in order to put off students that were not officially initiated. What are you thoughts here?

OT but this is the one argument someone brought up in an article recently wherein the author informed everyone that air should be in the north and earth in the east. They'd copied their correspondences from various sources and then decided somebody must've purposely changed things around to confuse non initiates.

Of course, it could've had nothing to do with that some people simply feel earth is in the north and air in the east! :rolleyes:

mol
June 19th, 2003, 12:01 PM
Of course, it could've had nothing to do with that some people simply feel earth is in the north and air in the east! :rolleyes:

Bingo!

Semele
June 19th, 2003, 12:04 PM
If anyone is interested in pursuing this option (garage conversion)…I have done similar renovations…and I will be happy to lend any help that I can.

LOL! Sounds like a studio project that Mol had going on, oh about three or four times since we have been married. We keep having kids and he keeps losing his studio!!



I think I will be perusing the altar cloth option. It’s really the only viable option with my current living conditions. While I am no stranger to a sewing machine (only child with a sewing mother and grandmother)…I can’t say that I enjoy it…but I think I can struggle through the cloth.

This is what we will likely do as well, but will have to sew by hand because sewing machines scare me to death. Tragic accidents have been known to happen if I get near one!

As for the changing of the seasons, what about if we use velcro and make different color pieces that you could change out. just an idea, although myself I am not too fond of trying to follow the color schemes that someone else tells me fits the particular cycle of the year. I prefer to just use what is closest in my mind. I guess that is my answer to the question of the different elements and corresponding colors.





This ‘magic chest’ is my solution.

What a great idea. We will most likely utilise our large bedroom for the temple space. We have a locked cabinet in an armoir that we could use to store tools. Which brings up another fun query, I wonder if we will be making the majority of the tools? I haven't read ahead. I can barely keep up because Mol is a book hog!

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 12:05 PM
OT but this is the one argument someone brought up in an article recently wherein the author informed everyone that air should be in the north and earth in the east. They'd copied their correspondences from various sources and then decided somebody must've purposely changed things around to confuse non initiates.

Of course, it could've had nothing to do with that some people simply feel earth is in the north and air in the east! :rolleyes:

I cant recall the site Rain...but we read the same article. ;-)

materra
June 19th, 2003, 12:06 PM
Interesting information. IMO something I've learned in my trainings over the years plus in Qigong is part of the reason for the temple constuction. The Master's I have worked with actually say you build energy into the very structures of the room and the clothes you wear. So, a regular temple room would need to be cleared of old influences and then new energies laid in. The reason for the particular cloths is the same, certain cloths have the ablility to collect and hold energy per my understanding. Silk, cotton, linen, wool, natural clothes are typically used for rituals and meditation through most cultures. Colors vary throughout cultures but the representation of the mental image, the calling of the four corners is the way we all open gates. So I think using her format is tradition, and represents the mental gates she wants us to open. As are the symbols and items needed.

IMO a good cloth would be a reasonable compromise for space. I like that locked chest Idea... especially in households with children or nosey roommates. I do think it is important to consider the wood used. No MDF please would be my recommendation. And If it is an older chest, cleaned and dedicated. I would also make a point of placing in in the same space everytime and have a locked door to protect you from disturbances if at all possible.

I would also suggest folks try to have only certain cloths used for ritual to help store the energy and to also set the mood. Remember that sometimes when things go awry the stored energy habits of your space can protect you. Also having ritual clothing helps you prepare for the upcoming ritual and mental attitudes.

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 12:35 PM
LOL! Sounds like a studio project that Mol had going on, oh about three or four times since we have been married. We keep having kids and he keeps losing his studio!!

In our first house I converted the garage to a den...and later I added a sunroom to the house. This was one of those crappy houses that we bought for nothing and I spent a few years and a ton of cash learning how to tile, lay carpet, run duct work and of course shocking the snot out of myself several times (electricity and me do not get along). I can build walls, put in doors and windows, do molding and base boards, run plumbing, I can even do wooden flooring (Lowes free pergo classes are awesome btw).
Anyway...short of pouring a foundation I have pretty much done it all. Converting some space in a garage would be no problem at all. Honestly if I planned to stay in this house longer than a couple years I would do it in a heart beat.

If you all should change your minds in this…to quote Spicoli – “I got the ultimate set of tools….I can fix it!”


This is what we will likely do as well, but will have to sew by hand because sewing machines scare me to death. Tragic accidents have been known to happen if I get near one!

LOL! I guess I first sewed when I was about 7...my grandma showed me how to make a pillow. By the end of the summer I was quite proficient at superman outfits. ;-) My mother has a pretty extensive sewing room...surger, embroidery machine and a totally kick butt new Viking sewing machine. Wait a tick…did I just call a sewing machine kick butt? I will have to pay tribute to the testosterone god for my transgression. :D

If I can help anyone…I dunno…surging the border of your cloth or something. Something that is like impossible by hand. I would be happy to do so for any of the participants. While I agree that the more you do yourself the better off you are…some of these things will be so much easier to do with a sewing machine.

Her embroidery machine is very handy as well. You can use just about any vector graphic…import it into a special program and it converts it to the machines graphic format. Then you just put it on floppy and stick in the machine and whammo you have your graphic stitched into your fabric. I haven’t decided what to do yet…but this will be used somewhere I am certain.


As for the changing of the seasons, what about if we use velcro and make different color pieces that you could change out. just an idea, although myself I am not too fond of trying to follow the color schemes that someone else tells me fits the particular cycle of the year. I prefer to just use what is closest in my mind. I guess that is my answer to the question of the different elements and corresponding colors.

There we go…velcro could be a very interesting addition here. Hmmm…something to think about that is for sure.

The comments thus far…that its only important to use colors that mean something to you…that makes a lot of sense to me. I will have to give this some thought of course…but it is liberating. Thank you both!



What a great idea. We will most likely utilise our large bedroom for the temple space. We have a locked cabinet in an armoir that we could use to store tools. Which brings up another fun query, I wonder if we will be making the majority of the tools? I haven't read ahead. I can barely keep up because Mol is a book hog!

I wish I could use my bedroom for this…I have a full weight bench, free weight rack and a recumbent bike in my bedroom…I would have to find a home for this somewhere…and there really isn’t a handy space for this stuff.

As far as making tools…irregardless of what the author states…I will be making my own tools. A new hobby for me has been wood carving and most recently blacksmithing. I fully intend to make all of my ritual tools. ;-)

Semele
June 19th, 2003, 12:59 PM
I can build walls, put in doors and windows, do molding and base boards, run plumbing,
If you all should change your minds in this…to quote Spicoli – “I got the ultimate set of tools….I can fix it!”

Plumbing you say?? My sink broke...Mol has a knack for breaking things. We are going to have to replace the whole faucet thingy in the kitchen. We may call you if Mol makes a mess!! :lol:




LOL! I guess I first sewed when I was about 7...my grandma showed me how to make a pillow. By the end of the summer I was quite proficient at superman outfits. ;-) My mother has a pretty extensive sewing room...surger, embroidery machine and a totally kick butt new Viking sewing machine. Wait a tick…did I just call a sewing machine kick butt? I will have to pay tribute to the testosterone god for my transgression. :D

Well, my mom sews quite well and always has. I grew up watching her sew all kinds of costumes etc for all the school programs and Easter dresses for me and my lil sister. She tried to teach me a couple of times and I just messed up her machine. A typical lesson would consist of her showing me how to do it for a few minutes then letting me try then her spending 30 minutes rethreading it and untangling my mess. *shrugs* I thought I would take home economics and learn, but I failed the sewing part. A football player finished my shirt for me after he had made himslef three shirts and two pairs of jams! (remember those?!) However, I can make pillows and such by hand pretty fast. If the edge thing is impossible I guess I can get my mom to show me again on her machine. She will be very afraid!!

It says in the book that if you are making a cloth instead you may run over the month time frame, so I anticipate it will be a challenge of sorts. We may have to go slower for us to get them done, but I don't think anyone is going anywhere.

Rain Gnosis
June 19th, 2003, 01:02 PM
So folks, what happens if (hypothetically) you, for whatever reason, can't dedicate a room *or* make a cloth for this?

Semele
June 19th, 2003, 01:06 PM
So folks, what happens if (hypothetically) you, for whatever reason, can't dedicate a room *or* make a cloth for this?

Well the 'temple" is worth half of your final grade missy!!

LOL! Seriously, I suppose you should really try to find some way, even if it means cleaning out a section of a closet, which we considered. I think what the author is saying is that you need to actually physically do something to get the benefit of the temple. I had a little problem with it as well, but I have never attempted ritual or ceremonial magick, so this is all new to me too.

Rain Gnosis
June 19th, 2003, 01:09 PM
Ok, sounds reasonable. So how much room is there to improvise? Is there a limit at all? Can a temple be created outside or anywhere you can find room? Is the meaning behind it more important than the items you can hang or make for it? Are the ideas in the book just ideal examples and not hard and fast rules?

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 01:13 PM
Interesting information. IMO something I've learned in my trainings over the years plus in Qigong is part of the reason for the temple constuction. The Master's I have worked with actually say you build energy into the very structures of the room and the clothes you wear.

Yes yes…a very good point. The author does mention this very thing and it makes perfect sense to me.


So, a regular temple room would need to be cleared of old influences and then new energies laid in.

The author does talk about the cleansing aspect and I have seen, though I haven’t read it, an appendix in the book for how to take the temple down and clear the energy when you move.



The reason for the particular cloths is the same, certain cloths have the ablility to collect and hold energy per my understanding. Silk, cotton, linen, wool, natural clothes are typically used for rituals and meditation through most cultures.

You know…I have heard this somewhere…that certain fabrics have properties like this. Honestly I have not paid attention to them previously. I guess now would be a good time to investigate this a bit. Does anyone have any sites/links for this type of information?



Colors vary throughout cultures but the representation of the mental image, the calling of the four corners is the way we all open gates. So I think using her format is tradition, and represents the mental gates she wants us to open. As are the symbols and items needed.

I would be interested to hear what colors the rest of you are going to use. I am still searching myself. Some suggestions would be most welcome.


IMO a good cloth would be a reasonable compromise for space. I like that locked chest Idea... especially in households with children or nosey roommates. I do think it is important to consider the wood used. No MDF please would be my recommendation. And If it is an older chest, cleaned and dedicated. I would also make a point of placing in in the same space every time and have a locked door to protect you from disturbances if at all possible.

Heh…no MDF…Amen. My chest is cedar…it was unfinished…but I did that intentionally as I have a few special touches in line. I am also considering doing some light chip carving on the lid…to further personalize the chest. My chest was brand new…and again this was intentional. Still once it is completed I will be cleaning and dedicating it for this specific use.
I do wish I could figure a way to have a locked door. Unfortunately I don’t see how I am going to be able to do this for the time being. I am going to use time as my insulation…meaning I will be working in the evenings after the kids are in bed.

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 01:24 PM
Ok, sounds reasonable. So how much room is there to improvise?

I just looked and I cant find an specific dimensions. I get the distinct impression that the author is suggesting using a converted bedroom or at least a room at least the size of a bedroom for this purpose. My cloth will be approximately this size…but I will be using it in my living room area and I have ample space for a large cloth. Most likely 12’ by 12’. As for license to improvise...the author doesnt give much indication that this is acceptable. I dont see how it could hurt...though I intend to follow the guidelines fairly religiously...at least at first. Once I become more familiar with the materials...I may very well improvise something...but as Semele said...I have no experience here. I plan to do as I am told...at least while I am learning.


Can a temple be created outside or anywhere you can find room?

The author does suggest inside so that you are not limited to using the temple as the elements permit. She even gives suggestions for using netting to block nosey neighbors views through windows and insulating the room to prevent chanting noises escaping. I get the distinct impression this should be done indoors.


Is the meaning behind it more important than the items you can hang or make for it?

While she hasn’t come right out and said it. I believe the temple is a tool to train the magicians mind. See my posts above…


Are the ideas in the book just ideal examples and not hard and fast rules?

Personally, I gather that Ceremonial Magic greatly involves discipline, dedication and tradition. The author makes it very clear that this is a hard and fast rule…that some sort of temple should be created. Whether it’s a physical room or a temple cloth…the intent should be the same.

Rain Gnosis
June 19th, 2003, 01:29 PM
While she hasn’t come right out and said it. I believe the temple is a tool to train the magicians mind. See my posts above…

Yes I read those :) What I'm asking is, since it's just a tool to train the magician's mind, how far do you think someone can go in terms of improvising? If the intent of creating a symbolic place like the magician's mind is met, how far out of the parameters the author suggests can you go? If it is purely to "raise the magician's mind", suppose I feel doing it outside would be more conducive? Or suppose I feel having a room in my house would not be conducive because of noisy neighbours or busy family members? Or suppose the only place I could do it is at a friends' house?

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 01:33 PM
Yes I read those :) What I'm asking is, since it's just a tool to train the magician's mind, how far do you think someone can go in terms of improvising? If the intent of creating a symbolic place like the magician's mind is met, how far out of the parameters the author suggests can you go? If it is purely to "raise the magician's mind", suppose I feel doing it outside would be more conducive? Or suppose I feel having a room in my house would not be conducive because of noisy neighbours or busy family members? Or suppose the only place I could do it is at a friends' house?

Ahh...I see what you are asking. Sorry...I was a lil confused. The author really doesnt even suggest that any variation is recommended. She is very regimented...this should be like this...and that should be that. Again she hasnt directly said at this point you HAVE to do it this way...I do get that impression. Would anyone else with the book concur with that assessment?

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 01:42 PM
What I'm asking is, since it's just a tool to train the magician's mind, how far do you think someone can go in terms of improvising?

Rain...my honest answer here I dont know. This is such a new field to me...and I have so little experience with any system much less CM. While I do enjoy free thinking and doing things my way. My understanding of CM is that it is a very regimented discipline. I am not saying this is correct...but I intened to follow the teachings verbatim during my learning phase. Once I have completed this phase...I will evaluate what I have learned and go from there.

I guess what I am saying is...I dont know squat...so I am going to do what the teacher says until I figure out what the hell is going on. Then I will worry about changing things to suit me if needed. Currently, I am just not knowledgable enough to make that determination.

I do feel a little bit like a sheep in this...but at my stage of developement in this area...I think its fine to be led for now. ;-)

~ Monk ~
June 19th, 2003, 02:13 PM
Does the Temple have to be used only for Magic, or can it be a room used for other things? For example, I have a room in the back of my house set aside specifically for meditation and/or spiritual work. Can this room double as a Temple as well?

Semele
June 19th, 2003, 02:41 PM
Does the Temple have to be used only for Magic, or can it be a room used for other things? For example, I have a room in the back of my house set aside specifically for meditation and/or spiritual work. Can this room double as a Temple as well?

Well the author is pretty insistant that the temple be just that and that noone should enter unless they are there to do ritual work. I would think a room for spiritual work and meditation would fit those descriptions as long as that is all it is used for. Not like a nursery part time and temple on the weekends...unless you are consecrating etc with each use. She even mentions a special pair of slippers to wear in the room and to be left in there, not to wear in your street shoes. I prefere to work barefoot personaly though.

Rain, I think you could most certainly build a temple outside if it is what will work best for you. While the author cautions against it for obvious reasons of neighbors and other distractions, I think it could still work if that is where you feel most comfortable and able to work. Of course it couldn't be considered a standing temple because of the danger of animals and other people walking upon it. I think it would have to be treated more like a temporary temple and the consecration issue comes up. What if you had a cloth and took it outdoors in a special area set aside for ritual magick? Then you would have the temple cloth that you worked on and the place where you feel most connected. I think the author mentioned something about the sounds of nature, but we don't get that here so much...mostly helicopters!

mol
June 19th, 2003, 02:53 PM
Does the Temple have to be used only for Magic, or can it be a room used for other things? For example, I have a room in the back of my house set aside specifically for meditation and/or spiritual work. Can this room double as a Temple as well?



Well the author is pretty insistant that the temple be just that and that noone should enter unless they are there to do ritual work. I would think a room for spiritual work and meditation would fit those descriptions as long as that is all it is used for.

Thats a big 10-4. :)

Meditation and spiritual work are by definition part of the Work of a Magician. I think this is a perfect space.

Lunacie
June 19th, 2003, 03:31 PM
Alright, that all makes sense. Probably would have sooner if I had a copy of the book, eh? I do know how to sew, but here is a thought for those who are sewing-challenged... how about buying a king-sized top sheet? Those are square and already hemmed. For the braid you can buy fabric glue to attach that. And for the black and while pillars and the 4-colored circle you can get small tubes of fabric paint.

I love the idea of a special chest for keeping all the tools in one place, but as money is tight for me I will probably set aside one drawer in the chest of drawers, cleansing and consecrating it for the purpose. And I too generally go barefoot indoors, but might get a pair of slippers for cold weather to keep in the drawer too.

Just one question, with all the concern about the colors to represent the elements, I haven't heard what color the temple cloth should be?

Semele
June 19th, 2003, 03:46 PM
I do know how to sew, but here is a thought for those who are sewing-challenged... how about buying a king-sized top sheet? Those are square and already hemmed. For the braid you can buy fabric glue to attach that. And for the black and while pillars and the 4-colored circle you can get small tubes of fabric paint.

What a great idea. I may use this one..at least the glue thing. In fact the book actually says a large, new sheet will work. I can't remember off the top of my head if she mentions a specific color though. I will have to look it up later.

Toad
June 19th, 2003, 03:46 PM
Just one question, with all the concern about the colors to represent the elements, I haven't heard what color the temple cloth should be?

I just re-read the section that talks about the temple cloth. There is no specific mention of a color of the temple cloth itself. The only mention of color is that of the elemental refrences and pillars. Even in reference to the full temple there is no hard rules on colors for walls or flooring.

Personally I believe that I will use a dark red / maroon (almost black). That should tie in with the other colors I think.

Rain Gnosis
June 19th, 2003, 06:37 PM
Well, it's always a confusing point for me. I did have an entire room for this purpose, but found I never used it *because* it was so empty as to be uncomfortable. Being someone who works magic on the computer, and who's spirituality does focus so much around it, having a computer in my altar room seems to "feel better" than having a room solely dedicated to magic.

Also, since we now live in the country it's so wonderful to be outside!! :D

Toad
June 20th, 2003, 01:15 PM
I know that yesterday I said that I was going to use a maroon color for the base of my cloth. Well I changed my mind yesterday…as I was visiting the fabric store.

This fabric selection, color scheme is by no means ‘by the book’ but I think its close. I thought this might help those of you still planning your temple cloth.

Here is the layout that I am going to use:

Temple Cloth Layout (http://members.cox.net/toad32/templecloth.jpg)

You will notice that I changed a few things from the book suggestions. First the color correspondence is different. I am using East/Air/Yellow, South/Fire/Red. West/Water/Blue and North/Earth/Green. I have been working with these colors and directions and they make sense to me so I am going to stick with them. Instead of the felt the author recommends for the element circles and pillars I am using flannel. It’s a bit more durable than felt and easier to work with. Each of the pillars is outlined with black or silver braiding and each is padded to make it stand up a bit from the surface of the cloth.

You will also notice that my center piece is a pentagram…and not a four color circle as in the book. I plan to use a folding wooden stool for my altar and it will sit in the middle of the pentagram…with different tiles and altar cloth on top of it depending on my needs/wants. I will get to these tiles and altar cloth in a second in a second.

For the main section of the mat I am using tan ‘monks cloth’. You can see a picture of a sample here:

Monks Cloth (http://members.cox.net/toad32/Monks_Cloth.jpg)

I really fell in love with the monks cloth due to its texture…as I was looking at fabrics…this stuff just screamed out to me. Again…the author doesn’t indicate what type of cloth to use…so I used my gut. =) Anyway…the top part of my cloth is the tan monks cloth…on the bottom I have a layer of natural colored muslin. Sandwiched between the two I have a layer of blanket insulation…like you would use in a comforter for example. This gives it a little padding and also helps it to lay flat. As a border I am using a gold cord.

I actually managed to sew the base of this together last night…it was just like making a large, flat pillow. I will also do a little more stitching through the middle of the cloth to help hold the insulation in place…but the base is essentially done.

Now for the pillars. I actually used Corel Draw to help me with the pattern. I drew out the basic column shape…then sized it up. With Corel you can print across multiple sheets…once printed out I taped the pages together and cut it our and I had my pillar pattern. I managed to cut the pillars out last night but I still need to attach the borders
(black cord for the black pillar and silver cord for the white pillar). Each pillar will then get sewn in place with padding underneath to make them stand off the cloth a bit.

The circles will be no big deal. Mine will be about 12”…I plan to use one of our deep pots for the circle that I will cut out of poster board and then use the poster board for my cloth pattern. These will then get sewn on to the main cloth. No padding…no border.

Next is my altar. I got a prototype for this little wooden stool from a friend of mine some time ago. Its only 24” tall and about that square…but it actually folds up. I will make a point of taking a pic if anyone is interested. Anyway…I am going to make a new one…specifically for use here. I will use this stool in the center of the cloth as my altar. I will use an altar cloth to cover the stool…I figured I would use different colors for the seasons or ritual…depending on what I was trying to do. I also figured out a cool way to make fairly elaborate altar tiles for very little money. If you have a computer, a color inkjet printer and can handle some spray paint cans you can do this too.

First of all go here and buy you a few sheets of this stuff:

Decal Paper (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/beldecal/inkjetdecpap.html)

I have used this stuff for years on guitars (I have been known to build a guitar or 5 =)).

Using your favorite graphics package or ‘save as’ feature of your web browser you can get pretty much any graphic you would want to use on an altar tile. You might use something like this:

Rose Cross (http://members.cox.net/toad32/rose%20cross.jpg )

All you have to do…is set your printer to maximum output detail…print your graphic out on this decal paper. Be careful with it when it comes off the printer…its possible to smear it for the first couple minutes. After you have the decal dry…you need to clear coat the decal paper with something. I have always use a nitrocellulose clear coat in an aerosol can…I know this works. I would expect that polyurethane in aerosol form would be fine as well. You need to shoot the decal with this clear before you wet it or it WILL run.

After the decal drys…soak it in luke warm water for a few seconds and it will separate from the backing. Apply this decal to your piece of wood. Let it dry then clear coat the whole mess and you have a killer altar tile. And it didn’t cost you an arm and a leg. I have used the same technique on my chest that I referred to earlier. This is a very handy technique.

I am also going to make me a beanbag pillow for use in this temple. I will use the natural muslin and fill it tightly with bean bag stuffing. This will be my seat for meditations while in my ‘temple’.

I had another thought as I was planning out this cloth. In my particular situation I am going to be using my living room after my kids are in bed to use my temple. There really isn’t any other alternative at this point. One thing I may still do is to take the temple cloth idea up a notch. I figure using thin PVC and some elastic cord I could build a good tent frame. I could easily sew together a cover for this frame that would, once assembled, give you a ‘temple tent’. It wouldn’t help with noise of course…but I am thinking of visual distractions. It would block out all views of the real world while you were in this temple tent. It would be quick and easy to setup/tear down...and extremely portable.

I will see how my initial work goes…if I feel distracted I will build the tent section and see if it helps.

So…what is everyone else thinking about doing?

Scarlettvixen
June 21st, 2003, 04:53 AM
ok i have read thro everything twice
what size is the temple blanket supposed to be?

i did see 12 x12? i am presuming thats 12 feet?
i dont have a room in the house that is that big! lol

Toad
June 21st, 2003, 11:14 AM
There is no set size on the temple cloth. At least the author doesnt specify one. I was initially planning 12x12...but after laying that out it was too big. My cloth is 7x7.5. Alot smaller but still plenty big I think.

Scarlettvixen
June 22nd, 2003, 12:20 AM
k thanks toad that makes sense!
i had no idea where i would find a big enuff space in this house for 12 x 12! lol

Zander770
June 22nd, 2003, 02:41 PM
Rose Cross (http://members.cox.net/toad32/rose%20cross.jpg) All you have to do…is set your printer to maximum output detail…print your graphic out on this decal paper. Be careful with it when it comes off the printer…its possible to smear it for the first couple minutes. After you have the decal dry…you need to clear coat the decal paper with something. I have always use a nitrocellulose clear coat in an aerosol can…I know this works. I would expect that polyurethane in aerosol form would be fine as well. You need to shoot the decal with this clear before you wet it or it WILL run.

After the decal drys…soak it in luke warm water for a few seconds and it will separate from the backing. Apply this decal to your piece of wood. Let it dry then clear coat the whole mess and you have a killer altar tile. And it didn’t cost you an arm and a leg. I have used the same technique on my chest that I referred to earlier. This is a very handy technique. So…what is everyone else thinking about doing?

toad: man . . . that's the BEST IDEA i've heard all YEAR!!! (the "decal" Rose Cross Laman)! thx . . . my "temple" is in my "livingrm." i've the Four Directions/elements, color-coded correctly and symbolicly, tacked-up high on my four walls; my alter is movable (i'll attach a pic) and i DO--i admit--use it for soto-zen buddhism "sits," too.

i'm "psyched" about this Group, because my g.:.d.:. temple's in marina del ray, ca., and i rarely get out there, anymore . . .

mol
June 22nd, 2003, 02:49 PM
Zander, you only attached thumbs..not the real images. :)

shiloki
June 22nd, 2003, 04:17 PM
i don't know what i was thinking - but when this thread first got started i was thought it would be "discussion" based, only - just *talking* about ceremonial magick and it's uses and so forth :geez:

obviously, i was wrong - which brings up some pretty big obsticles for me which i will outline in a minute...

first, the initial topic: the temple
like toad, i'm very new to this...i mean, i've been reading and studying and interested for years, but have never really had the time or opportunity to really delve into it the way i would like, so for me, the idea of a sacred space filled with items and objects specifically for magikal use and having been properly cleansed and consecrated is very important and potentially exceptionally helpful to bring about the "mood" and mindset required for such work...i have a hard time getting my mind to settle down and am easily distracted, so i can always use all the help i can get :tongueout

theoretically, a room in ones own house is much more practical, seeing as how so many of us likely live in a city or town where something outdoorsie wouldn't be as accessible or appropriate (like a city park?? - :lol: ), but i've always felt that the basic nature of most pagan or "earth" religions would call for something more natural - that ceremonial type magik would more appropriately be performed in a place where you are in direct contact with the elements that are such a focus in everything...breathing in the actual air, standing on the actual earth, feeling the "fire" from the actual sun and so on....so it seems odd to me that the author would seem so against, as it were, having your temple outside....after all, isn't what mother nature provides the ultimate temple??...most of the books i've read have actually focussed on this...their immediate suggestion is to go outside if at all possible and use indoor spaces only as a last-ditch alternative, if you will...but, as has been mentioned in reference to the choice of elemental colors, there are undoubtedly many views, the author's of which is only one that we are currently exploring - a quote comes to mind - "take what you want and leave the rest"...i think that's applicable in almost any situation...

anyway, also like toad, since i'm so new it is probably advisable that i follow the instructions as closely as possible until i have learned enough to start experimenting on my own - this brings me to my delimma:

i live in a two bedroom patiohome with my boyfriend and his cousin...my boyfriend and i share one room while his cousin is in the other...when we first moved in it was just my boyfriend and i and the extra bedroom would have been perfect for, at the very least, a temple cloth...unfortunately, i don't see how that is even possible now...we are all very busy, the house isn't that big and we have so much crap it's hard to find any extra space at all...no one else in my household is interesed in anything like this and, frankly, i think they both think i'm a little "off" so i would feel a little weird and paranoid doing anything since we live in such close quarters...my boyfriend is understanding, but i get the feeling he doesn't really take it seriously...i have no idea what his cousing might actually think, but i'd rather not find out...i don't know how to sew, my mom does but i would feel really uncomfortable asking her to help me with something like this...not that she would condemn me or anything - she's known about my religious leanings for years and has even made an effort to be somewhat involved...however, i think she's always felt it was a phase and is still hoping i'll grow out of it eventually...not to mention, she's also very busy....:awwman:

what i think i'm trying to get at is that i want to participate as much as possible, but this is obviously going to get very involved and i just don't know if my current living situation is going to allow for it...i would love to continue being involved in discussion but i also don't want people to think i'm not putting in as much effort as they are...i mean, just seeing everything toad has already accomplished makes me feel like a cop-out...i haven't even gotten the book yet...and, yes toad, i know that was never your intention :) and awesome ideas on everything!! :yourock:

so, long story short, i would really appreciate any suggestions that might help me get the most out of this discussion...i'll make every effort i can to keep up and be as involved as everyone else, but i hope i can still participate if it just turns out to not be possible right now.....:sniffsnif

materra
June 22nd, 2003, 05:15 PM
Couple of thoughts on the subject... (hi neighbor...)

Outside worship in Phoenix??? This time of year... Yikes..it is too hot, I am sweating just typing and sitting in an airconditioned room with a fan. It's already 94 and we are having a cold wave...it isn't the heat of the day... (that's at 4 pm). So IMO... outside if you live in the mountains...not here in the valley of the Sun til winter. K'then?

Stay here and learn... someday you will have a space to practice your beliefs. Learn all you can now... I will tell you I haven't been able to find a copy of the workbook for this class anywhere yet, including at Changing Hands, my favorite store. So, order it online if you can, I am waiting for my copy yet. (sorry, bought used :rolleyes: snail mail is grand. :eyebro: )

As for the cloth...You can paint a small drop cloth. Since she hasn't said what the basis of it all is...here's my take. Buy a canvas drop cloth for about 10 bucks from Home Depot or anyother place that sells painters drop cloths cheap. They are made from light unbleached canvas and a fabulous buy. Go to a craft and sewing store, get out the old hot glue, some fabric paints, some braiding from sewing notions etc. ribbons, bias tapes, whatever you think will work. Cut the drop cloth to size, plan the design, outline lightly with tailors chalk, or other chalks, hot glue the hems, hot glue on the outlines or paint the pillars etc. I think using paint would be great, and then coat it all with latex sealer like they recommend for floor cloths in the craft books. Then you can open it and use it where ever you go. I think rolling it up and storing it in a special bag or closet would work if you don't want to fold it and make it have fold marks. If you use the canvas you trim from the drop cloth for the accessories, like the rose compass, you can have a place to set them and use velcro to hold them in place if need be. I would think they would lay flat and hold up under most uses just as a small rug on rug with that rubber rug backing cut to size to hold it in place.

So, there's my thoughts on this, with paint and some homemade stencils you can have everything you need, any color you need. :D

shiloki
June 23rd, 2003, 12:54 AM
Couple of thoughts on the subject... (hi neighbor...)

Outside worship in Phoenix??? This time of year... Yikes..it is too hot, I am sweating just typing and sitting in an airconditioned room with a fan. It's already 94 and we are having a cold wave...it isn't the heat of the day... (that's at 4 pm). So IMO... outside if you live in the mountains...not here in the valley of the Sun til winter. K'then?
well, yeah...that's what i meant!...i mean, it's not like we can just step right outside and *boom* nice shady forest...there *is* nice shady forest three hours in just about any direction but, hey!...that's three hours!!! :ahhhh:
Stay here and learn... someday you will have a space to practice your beliefs. Learn all you can now...
learning is the least i hope to do here and, if i'm lucky, i'll do a lot of it!! :hehehehe:

I will tell you I haven't been able to find a copy of the workbook for this class anywhere yet, including at Changing Hands, my favorite store. So, order it online if you can, I am waiting for my copy yet. (sorry, bought used :rolleyes: snail mail is grand. :eyebro: )
i'm glad i'm not the only one who hasn't gotten it yet....where is changing hands??...is that local here in phoenix??...it might just be me, but i've noticed a shortage of metaphysical type stores around here...i miss those!...lady sprite's cupboard used to be right down the road from me, but apparently she closed! :doh2:

As for the cloth...You can paint a small drop cloth. Since she hasn't said what the basis of it all is...here's my take. Buy a canvas drop cloth for about 10 bucks from Home Depot or anyother place that sells painters drop cloths cheap.:D
that's a great idea! everyone here has great ideas and it's really helpful seeing so many different takes on it...i already have a few thoughts of my own...getting the materials together won't be the hardest part i'm afraid....finding the space and private time will be...but like you said, materra..."stay and learn now" and maybe one day (if i'm a good little girl) i'll get to bust out with the actual practitioning!:bouncysmi

materra
June 23rd, 2003, 01:51 AM
Sorry if that sounded like a good little girl pep talk... it wasn't intended too.

As for the metaphysical book stores, there is Vision Quest in Scottsdale, but.. they don't have it, and I live about 6 blocks from them and hardly ever go there... I don't know...just don't quite feel like it. However, in Mesa is Changing Hands, new and used books and good stuff. It is right by the Trader Joe's off of Mcclintock and easy to get into. They have wonderful toys, and lots of books on all the different spiritualities... I get tons of good used pagan books there. I like the prices too. After that it is Borders or Barnes and Nobles...
sigh.

Toad
June 23rd, 2003, 04:07 AM
So, there's my thoughts on this, with paint and some homemade stencils you can have everything you need, any color you need. :D

This sounds like another great way of pulling this off Mattera! Curious though...have you used paint on fabric? Does it hold up well? This thing will probably get rolled and unrolled quite a bit.... I have no experience with paint on cloth...so this is an honest question. =)

Toad
June 23rd, 2003, 04:14 AM
i mean, just seeing everything toad has already accomplished makes me feel like a cop-out...i haven't even gotten the book yet...and, yes toad, i know that was never your intention :) and awesome ideas on everything!! :yourock:


LOL...I should probably have warned you all. I have a tendency to pull out all the stops when I decide to do something. You all have no idea how close I came to doing some major construction in my garage...but the wife talked sense into me.

I am just glad these posts are helping some of ya. ;-)

I am almost done with my cloth....Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix kinda put me off track. :lol:

Toad
June 23rd, 2003, 04:16 AM
toad: man . . . that's the BEST IDEA i've heard all YEAR!!! (the "decal" Rose Cross Laman)! thx . . .

No problem man.

And like Mol said...get us some bigger pics! ;-)

Zander770
June 23rd, 2003, 05:26 AM
Zander, you only attached thumbs..not the real images. :)

e-gad, man, i DID, did i not? (what IS it w/me and my constant attraction of THUMBS?!? it's everywhere . . . everywhere i go, lately!) http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif j/kiddin'!

hey, ummm . . . i LIVE IN PHX too, you TWO!!! thomas and 36th street! and, i HAVE read all the posts, here (albeit with blurry, blood-shot ands gimlet eyes . . . i've been awake foe two-days writing, &c), but i cannot seem to FIND which "book/manuscript" toad, materra, shiloki, et. al., are REFERRING to! (certainly NOT Harry Potter, right?!!?)

so? which "book"? and (i am probably TOTALLY "lost," here, but: toad? are you talking about creating the two pillars, &c, and, if that's the case: which/what TYPE of Temple are we "all of us" creating? magickian's choice[ (g.:.d.:.? masonic? o.t.o.? B.O.T.A/?] 'cause i CAN go right on ahead and checkerboard this red, shag carpeting black & white, ya know?)

seriously, i added those pics of my alter because i wanted to show that--altho it isn't "correct", w/the two black & white 3'X3' (right?) stacked cubes . . . which i WOULD be more than WILLing to build--it IS "smallish" and movable and i DO do a lot of work (tarot & candle magick and spells, mostly,lately--currently!

i live in a two bedrm apartment, but i HAVE "cleared this "mainroom out" on occasions, it's just that . . . a friend "used to have" a complete g.:.d.:. temple in his basement as of last january, so . . .
:stomp:
Oh! and i.m.h.o. please, PLEEEEZE boy-cott "vision quest," please?!? (i used to read and was employed, there, and) they're . . . well?!? GO TO barbara's place "Abracadabra" just "up the street" from me; thomas & 46th street, right past fry's and inside the coco's restrurant complex. here's telephone number (but i thinks she's only in on thursday's, but, no matter): 602.840.2041 -- 4613 e. thomas rd!

or, have you never been to "alpha bookstore"? man . . . that's like the OLDEST "Real Occult" store in Phoenix! (they've used books, too, but . .. you have to "dig thru them" and they're not in alphabetical, nor anyOTHER type of "order," either! used tarot cards, too! ["consecrate them!!!"}) "alpha's" a smallish place, but PACKED . . . and? they're right around the corner from me,too! McDowell and . . . (hang-on . . .) Alpha Book Center 1928 e. mcdowell rd (19th street & mcdowell) 602.253.1223. and? try to travel west on mcdowell and it's on the right-hand--north--side BEFORE 19th street. a smallish Black "evil- house-looking" building . . . (HA!!! naw, but you'll probably pass it, at first!!!)

p.m. or e-mail me and let's exchange phone numbers?!? i'd beg to go w/you guys, but i've No Cash till next weekend, alas? HOWEVER: llewellewn's been attempting to deliver via u.p.s. for two days my the quest tarot and that new osbourne phillip's astral projection book (and: some jewelry, on sale), sooooo. . . i've got THAT "going for me!!!"

gotta go type-up a tarot reading before my back gives out, but . . . it was GREAT "running into" all of You "locals"!!!

slan leat!

Toad
June 23rd, 2003, 09:07 AM
The Book we are using is The Ritual Magic Workbook by Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki. I got my on Amazon. =)

materra
June 23rd, 2003, 11:12 AM
This sounds like another great way of pulling this off Mattera! Curious though...have you used paint on fabric? Does it hold up well? This thing will probably get rolled and unrolled quite a bit.... I have no experience with paint on cloth...so this is an honest question. =)

Floor cloths have been used for centuries, they used milk paint and dyes in the "olden days". We have fabric paint and artist's acrylics both of which I have used and I think it will roll up nicely it you keep it loosely rolled. Perhaps the diameter of a small dinner plate loose? You can experiment and see. Also, thinly washed acrylics would work, they seem to like my clothes. If you are really concerned about paint cracking off I believe it is too thickly applied. Stop and think.. all those fancy stamped teeshirts with puffy paint, and stenciling survive. This will too...and you won't typically be washing it. PM me if you have further questions.

Thanks for the store info Zander, I had no idea they were there. As for where I live, I will PM you and we'll "talk amongst ourselves" but surprise, surprise I am just off Thomas and 68th.

shiloki
June 24th, 2003, 12:01 AM
Sorry if that sounded like a good little girl pep talk... it wasn't intended too.

:nonono: oh, no, that's not what i thought you meant at all....i was just sayin' :p


As for the metaphysical book stores, there is Vision Quest in Scottsdale

well, i may have to check that one out anyway...just to see what it's all about....where abouts in scottsdale??...maybe i can stop there on my way home from work sometime...


However, in Mesa is Changing Hands, new and used books and good stuff.

i try to avoid mesa as much as possible...but if you say it's easy to get to....anything is better than nothing, which is all i've found so far....:twitch:


They have wonderful toys, and lots of books on all the different spiritualities...

i love toys!!!! :clapping:


After that it is Borders or Barnes and Nobles...
sigh.

yeah...i've found some stuff @ those places...i really like borders for regular stuff and music...but people look at ya kinda weird if you spent too much time in the "wrong" section....but that's i just realized most of this post probably belongs somewhere else.....:bigredblu ....sorry....

**we shall now return to our regularly scheduled programming**


ps - sorry for all the quoting and smilies ( i love smilies :heartthro ...they're so cute! :loveduv: ) i'm still experimenting with how all this stuff works....

teyl
June 24th, 2003, 12:15 AM
Yay Yay Yay I have my book.
It's funny how things happen. I was supposed to pick it up on saturday but i simply ran out of money. Then I got my electricity bill AND my phone got cut off yesterday cos my housemate "forgot" to pay the bill! I didn't know how I was going to pay for it, but then I had a dream last night about taking my old books to a secondhand shop and selling them! Talk about gift from the goddess.... I took my books in and got the EXACT amount of money that I needed. Now on to the reading bit....

shiloki
June 24th, 2003, 12:17 AM
ok - i know i just left a really long, like, run-on post...but i missed some of the in between ones before i did that...so now i have more stuff to say...

toad - as materra said, whether or not paint holds up on cloth does depend partly on how it is applied...if you gob in on, it probably won't work that well...it also can depend on the kind of cloth you use...more pourous natural fabrics (muslin, silk, cotton) will hold paint better...the kind of paint also makes a difference...if you go to a craft store like michaels, they have crap-loads of paint specifically designed for fabric...also, if you pre-wash the material beforehand, it will allow it to do a bit of shrinking which will avoid unwanted shrinkage after you put in all that work...*phew*

i've actually been thinking of doing a form of batiqueing using plain parafin and melted crayons...i learned it in an artclass in highschool and it's really easy and a lot of fun...it can be time consuming, though, cause wax dries really fast so you end up using really short strokes...it makes an awesome effect, tho!

zander - hey, i think you live in my old apartment!!! are you on pinchot??? anyway, thanks for the tips on the stores...i'm on indian school & 21st st now, so those are all still real close...heck, we'll probably run into each other sometime, now that i know where those places are!! (watch out, i'm scary!)

so, um.....i think i covered everything now...and look!!! no smilies!!!!





:dancy: :sunny: :fpeace: :smooch: :floating: :spaceman: :bubbles: :chatty: :fishtank: :ringaroun







:hailmol: - i'll be good now, i promise......:deviltail

materra
June 24th, 2003, 01:46 AM
Good going Teyl...got me thinking.... hmmmm.
Got an email my book is on it's way. Snail mail.

The canvas drop cloths I mentioned are pretty stable, as they use them in decorating shows for everything from drop clothes to upholstering chairs, to making rugs like we would for this project. Just use a thin coat of paint. I know it works.

Haedis
June 24th, 2003, 10:19 AM
Let me start off by saying that I know next to nothing about ceremonial magick....but if the goal of every magician is to learn how to get things done as effectively as possible how is setting up such a specific ritual space going to help?

Wouldn't it make you a better magician if you learned to practice magick and to enter that state of mind anytime and anywhere if an emergency came up? If you had to do a protection spell on yourself without much forewarning...how practical is it to say "oh well now I have to go home and set up my special room and special altar and oh drat....where are my magick slippers!?!" ?

Even if all these strict rules are just a stepping stone in our education...does is say at what point we learn to do the necessary steps without so much emphasis on the specifics like the color of your ritual cloth, fabrics to wear, and how big the ritual room is?

A lot of this stuff isn't possible for me (a teenager still living at home). My dad wouldn't like me using the spare room for what he calls "that witchy bullshit" and even when I go outside to do a ritual I get the third degree.

But I guess there's no harm in learning how other people get things done, even if I dont follow it myself. That was sort of the point of me wanting to get into these lessons. I doubt I'm cut out for ceremonial magick, myself, but its always good to have the background knowledge of it.

Semele
June 24th, 2003, 12:37 PM
Ah Toad, your making us all look bad! We have yet to make it to the fabric store, but I am thinking we may get there tomorrow. This evening is dedicated to our hidious back yard that has been ignored all year.

Sounds like things are coming together great for you so far. I can't wait to get started on ours.

Semele
June 24th, 2003, 12:44 PM
Wouldn't it make you a better magician if you learned to practice magick and to enter that state of mind anytime and anywhere if an emergency came up?

Absolutely! This is the step to that process. In preparing the physical temple, we learn to prepare the inner temple. The advancement should be fairly quick depending on how dedicated we are.

Rain Gnosis
June 24th, 2003, 01:21 PM
does is say at what point we learn to do the necessary steps without so much emphasis on the specifics like the color of your ritual cloth, fabrics to wear, and how big the ritual room is?

This reminds me of french class back in primary school. We had to learn all the verbs and their tenses, and how boring! But the thing was, once we understood completely the mechanics, we could go off and use them to speak. The same might be said of this I think - once you *know* why things are done, and have practiced making them happen, you'll be prepared one day when you simply can't get to your tools and materials and have to do it anyway. I don't think there's any set time for that, but now you're laying the groundwork so when the time comes the steps will firmly be in your mind.

mol
June 24th, 2003, 01:41 PM
It all comes together in the end.

Toad
June 24th, 2003, 02:18 PM
does is say at what point we learn to do the necessary steps without so much emphasis on the specifics like the color of your ritual cloth, fabrics to wear, and how big the ritual room is?


The author says, and I am paraphrasing here, "When you are ready to use the temple...you will find that it is no longer needed". Now as to when exactly that time frame is? I think that is going to be determined by the individual.

The whole point with building the temple and the other exercises (which we havent discussed yet) is to 'condition' the mind of the magician. So that the magician can in fact do the necessary work in an instant and to enter the state of mind required as if it is second nature etc..



Ah Toad, your making us all look bad! We have yet to make it to the fabric store, but I am thinking we may get there tomorrow. This evening is dedicated to our hidious back yard that has been ignored all year.

Sounds like things are coming together great for you so far. I can't wait to get started on ours.

Making you look bad? Bah! Bah I say. I am just being my usual obsessive self. Just ignore me ;)

Having this thing mostly completed, I dont envy anyone following my suggestions that does not have a sewing machine...or at least have access to one. If I wasnt in a position to buy a sewing machine (yes...I bought a cheapie - I didnt want to have to answer all of my mothers questions by doing this at her house) I would be looking at Materra's suggestion very very closely.

Honestly...the worst part of this whole thing so far has been my wife finding out after 13yrs that I know how to sew. I have had to make the children new blankets, and mend clothes and put a couple zippers in. DRAT! :wtf:

Semele
June 24th, 2003, 02:24 PM
Honestly...the worst part of this whole thing so far has been my wife finding out after 13yrs that I know how to sew. I have had to make the children new blankets, and mend clothes and put a couple zippers in. DRAT! :wtf:

Ha-Ha!!! Serves you right. hey, when you start making blankets, remember we are having a new baby soon..hint hint!

J/K..I tried to make one for Trinity and it is a big joke, but the old cat loves it. My mom made her a great one!

Toad
June 24th, 2003, 02:31 PM
Ha-Ha!!! Serves you right. hey, when you start making blankets, remember we are having a new baby soon..hint hint!


One baby blanket comin up! Do we know if its a boy or girl? Due date? Seriously...I can crank out blankets like nuthin. Reid wanted a new blankie after surgery so of course I had to make one for Paige my daughter. Reid's is cool though...he chose the fabric. Only 5yr old I know who has a 'blankie' with a flame job. =)

Semele
June 24th, 2003, 03:06 PM
Toad, you are a hoot! Due date is Dec. 24th but no confirmation on sex, although I am leaning strongly to the male side.

Sorry for hijacking the thread..now back to serious magick study and stuff.

teyl
June 24th, 2003, 08:16 PM
OMG I cant believe that the first thng to do is make a QUILT!!!! :boing:
I love quilting so I think my Temple Cloth is going to take a while.... I've been designing one of these sort or things for a few weeks already. Looking at her design, it doesn't relate to me at all. Why the pillars? At this stage i might follow the border idea for the door, and coloured circles for the elements, but I would rather have a pentacle in the centre and some god/goddess symbols instead of the pillars. I plan on putting filling in it so it is comfortable and some waterproof backing as I live at the beach and tend to go there for alot of meditations and rituals (it's secluded)
As for the cloth I would recommend a natural fibre like cotton so it can be rinsed/washed easily.

Toad
June 24th, 2003, 08:39 PM
Why the pillars?

As I understand it the Pillars are key for Ceremonial Magic. As I understand it they represent the three pillars of the tree of life. The white pillar on the right, is the pillar of mercy, it contains the Chokmah, Chesed, and Netzach sephiroth. Tthe Left pillar, the pillar of severity contains the Binah, Geburah and Hod sephiroth. While the middle pillar, the pillar of equilibrium or mildness contains Kether, Tiphareth, Yesod and Malkuth Sephiroth.

To borrow a quote from Dion Forrtune "The two side columns are the two pillars that stand at the entrance to King Solomon's Temple and are represented in all Lodges of the Mysteries, the candidate himself, when he stands between them, is the Middle Pillar of Equilibrium"

These pillars were chosen for a very specific purpose...and their meaning is quite significant.

shiloki
June 25th, 2003, 12:20 AM
This reminds me of french class back in primary school. We had to learn all the verbs and their tenses, and how boring! But the thing was, once we understood completely the mechanics, we could go off and use them to speak. The same might be said of this I think rain - how come you always know how to explain things in a way that even a flunky like me can understand??...that's so cool! :tongueout - i mean, i already knew that...but that's a great analogy...

i was thinking....instead of just using colored ciricles....could i use simple graphics that have some resemblance to the actual element?? like a flame for fire, a water drop for water...etc....if i do the batiqueing (sp?) thing, it would looke really neat...also, i was thing of making a correlating "elemental" boarding directly on the fabric on the same side of the particular element...also using some sort of chord that's sewn/glued on that has the opening in the west for the gate...but also a decorative boarder...like waves on the water side, ivy on the earth side and so on.....too much?? c'mon!! i gotta do something to top toad!! i may not be the fastest, most ambitious or dedicated, but i betcha i can be amoung the most creative!!!! :heybaby:


*edited numerous times cause i kept forgetting stuff.....* :wth:

Zander770
June 25th, 2003, 03:25 AM
These pillars were chosen for a very specific purpose...and their meaning is quite significant.

yeppers . . . most noticabily appearng upone the b.o.t.a. and RWS Tarot keys: #2/The High Priestess; and #5/The Heirophant (notice the "black & white" checker board floor, there, too?) but i could make the argument that the "two pillars ALSO appear on keys: #3/The Emperess, #7/The Chariot; #11/Justice; #12/The Hanged Man; #18/The Moon, and . . .

wait a sec . . . this isn't the Tarot Board, is it?!!?


leat,

Zander770
June 25th, 2003, 03:49 AM
Due date is Dec. 24th

Ayyyy! 'tis a Grand Date! me very own girls friend's birthdate, as well! see? this is how in goes at The Zander Compound, every Holiday Season:

tam's birthday's the 24th; jesus' is the 25th; me mum's the 26th; and, mine is on the 27th . . . then? THEN we take the 28th, 29th AND the 30th "off resting" as to Gear-Up for New Yr's Eve!!!

e-gad, i am tellin' ya, true . . . CONGRATES! and: "capricornious" 'tis a GLOROUS sign to fall under . . .

Zander770
June 25th, 2003, 04:19 AM
The author says, and I am paraphrasing here, "When you are ready to use the temple...you will find that it is no longer needed". Now as to when exactly that time frame is? I think that is going to be determined by the individual.

The whole point with building the temple and the other exercises (which we havent discussed yet) is to 'condition' the mind of the magician. So that the magician can in fact do the necessary work in an instant and to enter the state of mind required as if it is second nature etc


i do not have her text, yet (but i shall by next week), altho i've read some pretty good reviews about it--basically "they" say she's golden dawn based, sooooooo . . . i would gander that this above stated statement--"when you build it they will come," a hem) is all leading us to the Creation of Our Very Own Temples in . . . well?

lemme just say that i had a "splendorus" one on the tree which i visited, a lot, last year, but . . . i "got out of 'practicus'," and now . . .

it's a bit*h and i'm finding out that i really took it for granted . . .:fishsmack ("hey, mikey? he LIKES it!!!")

(more later . . . sheeee . . . makes the sign of the enterer . . . STOMP!)

Toad
June 25th, 2003, 11:00 AM
[left]
i do not have her text, yet (but i shall by next week), altho i've read some pretty good reviews about it--basically "they" say she's golden dawn based, sooooooo . . . i would gander that this above stated statement--"when you build it they will come," a hem) is all leading us to the Creation of Our Very Own Temples in . . . well?


If by this you mean an internal temple(inside the magician)...then I would say you are correct in your assessment. ;-)

Toad
June 25th, 2003, 11:18 AM
i was thinking....instead of just using colored ciricles....could i use simple graphics that have some resemblance to the actual element?? like a flame for fire, a water drop for water...etc....

Thats a snazzy idea Shiloki. I think it would still be very true to the original objectives of the author...and its creative to boot! Very neat idea!

Toad
June 25th, 2003, 11:29 AM
This is something that just occured to me while I have been thumbing through Regardie's 'The Golden Dawn'...I have noticed that some of the rituals ask for different temple orientations. I am assuming that in a true physical temple the colums within it would be moveable for use in these types of rituals.

Assuming that I am correct in this assumption...would it make sense to have the temple cloth...or rather the pillars and elemental circles ON the cloth to be moveable? I am thinking of velcor or something similar here.

At this point the main section of my cloth is completed. My pillars are cut, bordered and stuffed. My cicrles are cut out and trimmed. And my center 4 color circle AND fabric pentagram (btw - making a pentagram from fabric is an absolute PITA) are complete. I just have to sew this stuff on the base cloth.

Toad
June 25th, 2003, 11:31 AM
Mol -

No pressure here...just curious...when do you plan...or do you plan to introduce the other exercises in month one?

mol
June 25th, 2003, 11:39 AM
Mol -

No pressure here...just curious...when do you plan...or do you plan to introduce the other exercises in month one?

I was hoping to get some pics, et of everyones projects...including mine and Semele's...up here before we started the next bit of excercises which deal with consecration, etc. I guess we can move on and continue with the Temple building as we go.

Toad
June 25th, 2003, 12:30 PM
I was hoping to get some pics, et of everyones projects...including mine and Semele's...up here before we started the next bit of excercises which deal with consecration, etc. I guess we can move on and continue with the Temple building as we go.

This is your show Mol...I was just curious what the agenda was is all. No worries...you do this how ya intended to. I have faith! =)

materra
June 25th, 2003, 04:16 PM
And some of us don't have books yet... *pouts* Rotten snail mail.

Xentor
June 25th, 2003, 06:01 PM
Then, some of us do have the book, but not enough time to read it.

Scarlettvixen
June 26th, 2003, 08:26 AM
and some of us cant find the book listed at all
hmm teyl said he got it - ill send him a pm!

Zander770
June 26th, 2003, 09:06 AM
Then, some of us do have the book, but not enough time to read it.

that'd be BEAVIS, bruddha!

http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/smilies2/fridaynite.gif Great Avatar!!!

Toad
June 26th, 2003, 10:56 AM
and some of us cant find the book listed at all
hmm teyl said he got it - ill send him a pm!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1578630452/102-7969884-3422511

This is where I got mine. Even using ground shipping it took less than a week.

teyl
June 26th, 2003, 04:56 PM
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1578630452/102-7969884-3422511

This is where I got mine. Even using ground shipping it took less than a week.
unfortunately shipping to "down under" is 6-12wks.

oh.. btw i am a she

Toad
June 26th, 2003, 05:05 PM
unfortunately shipping to "down under" is 6-12wks.



That's just not fair! ;-(

Scarlettvixen
June 27th, 2003, 06:28 AM
we know toad
its a 20 hr flight i just dont understand how that adds 5-7weeks to the delivery time!

Toad
June 27th, 2003, 07:08 PM
I should finish my cloth this weekend...do you want us to post pics of our projects out here Mol?

teyl
June 28th, 2003, 06:46 PM
Yay Toad! Yes do post pics i'd love to see how it went. I think i have finished the design of mine, but making it will take a while as i am broke as a joke.

Toad
June 29th, 2003, 12:15 AM
I be done with the temple cloth...

Have a look see...

Temple View 1 (http://members.cox.net/toad32/temple1.jpg)

Temple View 2 (http://members.cox.net/toad32/temple2.jpg)

Temple View 3 (http://members.cox.net/toad32/temple3.jpg)

I decided in the end that the closer to the text book the better for now...so I went with the 4 color circle for the center piece. You will also notice that I did go ahead and change the color correspondence...North=Green/Earth - East=Yellow/Air - South=Red/Fire - West=Blue/Water. I also moved the door...this was done intentionally...I wanted to always think of this quote by Fortune every time I entered the temple.



The two side columns are the two pillars that stand at the entrance to King Solomon's Temple and are represented in all Lodges of the Mysteries, the candidate himself, when he stands between them, is the Middle Pillar of Equilibrium"
Sorry the pics arent better...this is a pretty big cloth...I had to move away a bit to get it all in.

If there are any questions please fire away. =)

Scarlettvixen
June 29th, 2003, 02:49 AM
it looks excellant toad

Semele
June 29th, 2003, 06:03 PM
Oh Toad..man you are fast!! That looks great! We have yet to start the actual process of putting it together, but that is our project for the week, so we should have it done soon enough!

Congrats an a great job!!!

teyl
June 29th, 2003, 06:14 PM
yay yay Toad, it looks fantastic! :thumbsup:

Toad
June 29th, 2003, 06:34 PM
Glad everyone likes.

Semele...if you havent yet...dont buy your colored felts. I haven enough left over to make robes for a small family. =)

mol
June 30th, 2003, 01:07 AM
Glad everyone likes.

Semele...if you havent yet...dont buy your colored felts. I haven enough left over to make robes for a small family. =)

Haha...well...there is an excuse for a cookout if I ever heard one!

mol
June 30th, 2003, 01:07 AM
Oh...and we will continue tomorrow...sorry about the delays!

Semele
June 30th, 2003, 01:54 PM
Glad everyone likes.

Semele...if you havent yet...dont buy your colored felts. I haven enough left over to make robes for a small family. =)

Excellent! We were planning to go this evening and get the stuff. We will probably start on the edging tonight...wish us luck. I am thinking of a combination of fabric glue and hand sewing for this part. We will see how well it works out!

So about this cookout...Shall we shoot for this Thursday? Send me a pm and let me know how things are looking for you guys this week.

Toad
June 30th, 2003, 04:01 PM
Excellent! We were planning to go this evening and get the stuff. We will probably start on the edging tonight...wish us luck. I am thinking of a combination of fabric glue and hand sewing for this part. We will see how well it works out!

So about this cookout...Shall we shoot for this Thursday? Send me a pm and let me know how things are looking for you guys this week.


First PM sent...Thursday is looking good!

Second...you will do well with fabric glue. I actually used fabric glue to place my columns and circles. I then went in behind the glue and used the sewing machine as well. I probably didn’t need the sewing machine on those bits...but it was bothering me so I did anyway. I can’t recall the name right now...but I got a tube of this stuff at Wal-Mart for about 3 bucks. It dries in 30min and is washable. Most of the other glues took 24 hours to dry or weren’t washable. I will get the name of this stuff tonight in case you all want to get the same.

I didn’t include it here...but I did make a silk lined muslin bag to store this thing in. I went for pure silk...not a synthetic. They are quite proud of silk cloth....course it’s not nearly as bad as good velvet (I about had a stroke when I saw 24 dollars a yard for fancy velvet).

The edging was probably the most expensive bit on my cloth. It was 3.79 a yard...and I went through like 12 yards or...rather I bought 12 yards...and I am going to use the extra bit for my temple cushion.

In total I think I spent about $200 on fabric all together. Then again I did buy premium fabric (monks cloth is about 7 bucks a yard). Also being my typical self I bought way too much fabric. My grams had a good laugh...I told her about all this felt I had left over...that’s when she told me I could buy in 1/2 yards. I bought full yards...I am SMRT. :lol: Anyway...you could do this a lot less expensively. A king sheet and a few bucks in border and fabric paints you could have something comparable.

I did also buy a sewing machine...I didn’t want to have to answer questions about what I was making. ;-) Least now though I can make robes, cloaks and other snazzy stuff without wearing wholes in my fingers.

I can see myself making another one of these at some point I am sure that once I progress I will find things I want to change. Of course I‘m still having to talk myself out of garage renovations…Yes...I am a sick sick man! =)

Having used my temple cloth for a couple days...it is already getting a special 'vibe' all its own. Once I cross that gold cord its time for work. This is a fantastic alternative to a physical temple.

materra
June 30th, 2003, 05:06 PM
At the risk of repeating myself... Home Depot, painters drop cloth, 10 dollars, cotton, offwhite canvas about 12 x 9 ft. Paints from craft store are very low cost comparied to fabric at tho prices. Then hot glue and then a bag of silk to store it in. It really lowers costs.

mol
June 30th, 2003, 05:24 PM
At the risk of repeating myself... Home Depot, painters drop cloth, 10 dollars, cotton, offwhite canvas about 12 x 9 ft. Paints from craft store are very low cost comparied to fabric at tho prices. Then hot glue and then a bag of silk to store it in. It really lowers costs.

You know...I actually wondered about painting the designs instead of sewing patches on the cloth.

Toad
June 30th, 2003, 05:27 PM
At the risk of repeating myself... Home Depot, painters drop cloth, 10 dollars, cotton, offwhite canvas about 12 x 9 ft. Paints from craft store are very low cost comparied to fabric at tho prices. Then hot glue and then a bag of silk to store it in. It really lowers costs.

Yeppers...as I said above...this could be done a lot less expensively than I did it. Materra's suggestions are excellent ones.

In my defense...I simply built it the way my heart told me to. I guess my heart likes doing things the hard way. One things for certain...this particular cloth is a very personal item...and the way its constructed I will have it the remainder of my life. It has a lot of my energy in it...and while I took the basic design from our author...this is MY temple. It has already accomplished this much. It was probably silly to go all out on my first cloth...but sincerely I built this thing 'for life' so yea...I invested in it. Luckily I am in a position where I am able to do so. =)

Please dont take my suggestions around this as 'the only way to do this' because they are not. I guess I am the first to complete this...heck I may be the first to have worked on this at this point. My intent was to explain what I did in hopes someone my find one of my ideas useful.

As the old saying goes, "There is more than one way to skin a cat". That is certainly true in this case.

I am quite anxious to see how the rest of you are getting on.

Toad
June 30th, 2003, 05:29 PM
You know...I actually wondered about painting the designs instead of sewing patches on the cloth.


You know...if you had some artistic talent with a paint brush...you could do some truly incredible columns and such. Unfortunately my painting talent ends at painting a wall a solid color...even that is dangerous with me around. =)

mol
June 30th, 2003, 05:34 PM
You know...if you had some artistic talent with a paint brush...you could do some truly incredible columns and such. Unfortunately my painting talent ends at painting a wall a solid color...even that is dangerous with me around. =)
Well, Im not very artistic when it comes to drawing, but I can usually do pretty well with symbols, etc. If I drew the columns and symbols on first and then painted over them I bet that would work. I will check with Semele when I get home and see what she thinks.

heh..well, speak of the devil...she is on now. :D

Toad
June 30th, 2003, 05:38 PM
Well, Im not very artistic when it comes to drawing, but I can usually do pretty well with symbols, etc. If I drew the columns and symbols on first and then painted over them I bet that would work. I will check with Semele when I get home and see what she thinks.

heh..well, speak of the devil...she is on now. :D

Also working by hand...this will save your poor hands many a poke with a needle if you painted them on as well.

materra
June 30th, 2003, 05:57 PM
Well I must confess I am multi talented when it comes to arts and crafts. But since I have seen floor cloths that are very very old... this seemed natural to me. Floor cloths are painted, and then shelacked to protect them. There are modern editions using fabric paints and clear coats of. Craft stores actually would have books on them, on techniques etc. On line too, my search turned up lots of info and examples. A bit of measuring and designing would work well, see my earlier posts on this. I don't believe all of us have sewing machines or the skills this would require. In addition to this, if we had a dedicated room, we would have painted the floors and covered them with a protective rug in the old days.

Toad
June 30th, 2003, 06:08 PM
Well I must confess I am multi talented when it comes to arts and crafts. But since I have seen floor cloths that are very very old... this seemed natural to me. Floor cloths are painted, and then shelacked to protect them. There are modern editions using fabric paints and clear coats of. Craft stores actually would have books on them, on techniques etc. On line too, my search turned up lots of info and examples. A bit of measuring and designing would work well, see my earlier posts on this. I don't believe all of us have sewing machines or the skills this would require. In addition to this, if we had a dedicated room, we would have painted the floors and covered them with a protective rug in the old days.


If I could paint I think I would have gone this direction.

If I had a dedicated room it would be tiled. I know the author recommended carpet...and specifically warned against tile due to the coolness factor. I just so happen to have installed a heated kitchen floor. :bad: Simple fact tile handles candle wax, red hot coals from incense burners, wine and other spills better than any rug/carpet/floor cloth.

See!? There I go again...wanting to demolish my garage and build a 'real' temple. Someone stop mah! :lol:

Semele
June 30th, 2003, 06:16 PM
In my defense...I simply built it the way my heart told me to. I guess my heart likes doing things the hard way. One things for certain...this particular cloth is a very personal item...and the way its constructed I will have it the remainder of my life. It has a lot of my energy in it...and while I took the basic design from our author...this is MY temple. It has already accomplished this much. It was probably silly to go all out on my first cloth...but sincerely I built this thing 'for life' so yea...I invested in it. Luckily I am in a position where I am able to do so. =)

Oh I don't think it was silly at all. In fact one of the main points I took from the author is that you need to put a lot of effort and energy into this project to fully grasp the temple idea. Fortunately enough with Mol and I being less creative than the average people, anything we attempt will take a lot of energy. LOL!

materra
June 30th, 2003, 06:23 PM
You know, it is also interesting where our talents and energy will take us. I like your cloth alot Toad... I am envious as I don't even have the book yet. Sigh. So that would go a long way to understanding what is needed here. As for building a new room. That's what I did when I had my house in MN. I converted the attic. It was great :).

SylverStar
July 1st, 2003, 08:21 AM
ok because I don't have the book yet and I want to get started on my cloth where is the door suppose to be according to the book? I think I got everything else down. I'm going to go shopping this week to get the stuff I need for the cloth and get it constructed this week also. I have no sewing skills so I'm going to go with the whole painting idea.

mol
July 1st, 2003, 09:57 AM
I just so happen to have installed a heated kitchen floor.

All of this talk about installing and construction is making me very happy that we are going to meet for some reason. ;) Muwahaha!

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 11:07 AM
ok because I don't have the book yet and I want to get started on my cloth where is the door suppose to be according to the book? I think I got everything else down. I'm going to go shopping this week to get the stuff I need for the cloth and get it constructed this week also. I have no sewing skills so I'm going to go with the whole painting idea.


Sylver and the rest of you w/out the book. The following is my drawing based on the book. I used her color correspondence and tried to draw it as close to the book as I could. You can find the diagram here:

Temple Cloth by the Book (http://members.cox.net/toad32/clothbybook.jpg)

If there are any other questions...I have the book...and will be more than happy to answer any questions using the text. Just fire away.

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 11:09 AM
All of this talk about installing and construction is making me very happy that we are going to meet for some reason. ;) Muwahaha!

:doh2: :)

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 11:15 AM
Sylver and the rest of you w/out the book. The following is my drawing based on the book. I used her color correspondence and tried to draw it as close to the book as I could. You can find the diagram here:

Temple Cloth by the Book (http://members.cox.net/toad32/clothbybook.jpg)

If there are any other questions...I have the book...and will be more than happy to answer any questions using the text. Just fire away.


Ooops I forgot to add...the author uses this correspondence.

North - Gold - Earth

East - Blue - Air

South - Red - Fire

West - Green - Water

mol
July 1st, 2003, 11:16 AM
Toad, if you would like...how about starting us up on the next section dealing with self-purging/purification. We probably wont go into consecration, etc until more folks have their cloths/areas completed. (Like Semele and I for instance.)

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 11:32 AM
Toad, if you would like...how about starting us up on the next section dealing with self-purging/purification. We probably wont go into consecration, etc until more folks have their cloths/areas completed. (Like Semele and I for instance.)


How bout this instead...I will write this up and send it to you so you can make changes etc.

I really am not meaning to run off with this thing Mol...its just pretty slow up here at work of late. ;-)

mol
July 1st, 2003, 12:03 PM
How bout this instead...I will write this up and send it to you so you can make changes etc.

I really am not meaning to run off with this thing Mol...its just pretty slow up here at work of late. ;-)

Hey...the more people helping with the facilitation the better I say!

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 01:55 PM
Hey...the more people helping with the facilitation the better I say!

OK Mol...I am happy to help. If however you or anyone else feels I am overstepping my bounds...please let me know. I wont take offense.

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 01:58 PM
Per Mol's request the following is my best attempt at summarizing the authors comments on the months other exercises of Self Purgation and Purification. I am going to do my best here to write this without my own interpretations...I am using the authors ideas here...so please keep that in mind. This is the author talking here...not me. =)


Self Purgation and Purification

We started this month working on our physical temples. Our author went into great detail on how to build our physical temples. The first...and primary step in this process was the cleaning of the room in which we were going to build our temple in (assuming of course that you were dedicating a room to this cause). She talked of how we should start by removing ALL of the furnishing, curtains, carpet and give the room a thorough cleaning. A hands and knees scrub. Only after the physically room was cleared and cleaned were we to begin construction of the temple space.

Self Purgation is the clearing and cleaning of the most important temple...yourself.

The author suggest a month long process of documenting the ups and downs of your life to this point. She suggest having pen and paper at the constant ready and to continually work on jotting down past memories both the good and bad into these notebooks whenever you have a free moment. She makes great pains to point out that the clearest of our memories are most likely not very pleasant. She is adamant that we must write, in detail, of these experiences, both good and bad. She wisely points out...that these memories are the past and cant cause us any further harm.

At the end of the month we are to analyze these writings. Look at this individual (yourself) as if they were a fictional character in a novel. We are to examine the situations and to see what/if any lessons were learned from the experiences and if those lessons were applied in the future.

Once this process is complete she suggest burning these notebooks in the process of accepting the person that is represented in them To realize that this is your starting point. To realize that you are the summation of these experiences.

In essence this is the clearing and cleaning of your mind...in preparation for the years work ahead.

Relaxation, Breathing and Meditation

The author intertwines several exercises into this self purgation process. Firstly is breathing and relaxation exercises. I will quote her directly for descriptions of the exercises. Before we get into the specifics I think I should highlight one of her points on inertia.

The author very wisely points out that these exercises should be undertaken in small quantities. A couple minutes of breathing and relaxation in the morning...and a couple minutes throughout the day as you have time. The meditations she stresses should be done as you are able and even goes into detail of doing meditations while doing other things such as walking the dog, or polishing the silver. The idea is to break these up into small chunks to make the exercises manageable if you are not used to such activity. This will build inertia within yourself for these type of exercises. These exercises help us to build the foundation of discipline that will be required as we go forward. She even hints that this is a way to fool the conscious mind into this activity.

Here are the exercises she recommends...in her own words:

Relaxation -

Your daily routine must always start with the relaxation exercises. You can do most of these in bed in the few minutes between waking up and getting up. Turn on your side and curl up into a tight ball and tense your body tightly, hold it for no more than 5 seconds then let go and flop out straight. Start checking for areas that haven't flopped enough. Shoulders and the back of the neck are prime targets for tense muscles at any time of the day.


She recommends that as often as possible throughout the day you concentrate on relaxing your muscles. Especially the shoulders, back of the neck and the muscles between the eyes and above the ears.

Breathing -

She recommends doing 2 minutes of her breathing exercises.

Now breathe in, right down to your belly while you count off four seconds, hold it for two seconds then let it out counting four again. Repeat this three times. Now get up and sit on the end of the bed with your feet flat on the floor. Drop your arms and head down between your legs and hang there for a few seconds, then straighten up slowly until you are sitting upright, then flop back onto the bed and let go. Do one more breathing exercise....then have breakfast.

Meditation -

She talks at some length about two different types of meditations. Active where you focus on a symbol and to concentrate on it to the exclusion of all else. Then Passive meditation where you allow random thoughts to come into your mind. She indicates that we will be doing a lot of active meditations as we build our minds discipline in the coming year.

She gives a list of meditation subjects for the month...I will include those below. She also stresses that you keep a record of the meditations...or more importantly a graph of meditation distractions. By keeping track of distractions as we work through the active meditations you, in effect, have a tangible record of your improvement as you meditate. The less interruptions the more focus you have. She recommends this strongly.

Meditations for Month One -

1 - Magic is the Art of Causation
2 - Magic...speaks to the subconscious mind of man through...symbols and rituals.
3 - Change is Growth
4 - There is no part of me that is not of the Gods
5 - The subconscious mind ... works through images not words
6 - The Universe is a Living Organism
7 - The Tree of Life
8- Symbols are a means of communication, a form of shorthand
9 - Astral Magic is meditation materialized to visual imagery
10 - All things are possible to the trained mind

One specific piece that she quotes from another source is that it takes 80 days of meditation to make it a habit.


Reading and Recording

The author gives a fairly lengthy reading list for the month. I am going to leave this to Mol to decide what, if any of this list is used here.

However, I think its very important to end with the authors suggestion of recording our activities. She spends a bit of time stressing that as we go forward we must keep written records of our activities. Our exercise times, our meditations, our dreams and of course our rituals. She makes a point of stressing that these recordings should be short and concise...they are to be used as reference.

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 02:21 PM
OK instead of speaking for the author…this is coming from me now.

First the author suggests the recording thing. I personally feel that this is crucial. I have never really kept a journal so this was a new process for me. I started off with a word document and rapidly got pissed off with trying to keep junk organized. I have since then done a lot of looking at journaling products to help my normally messy self here and I have found a near perfect piece of software for this purpose.

http://www.davidrm.com/thejournal/

I am not affiliated with these folks…just a big fan of the software. I am using it for all my journaling as well as my BoS, Dream Journals, Self Purgation. Its so damn handy I had to turn you all onto this thing.

The meditations I have been working with for some time. I have been religious about keeping my thoughts about these topics documented. If anyone cares to discuss them I am prepared. =) This process of using symbols in meditation is new to me…even though I have been meditation for over a decade (gheez I am old). Meditating on these quotes has been revolutionary to my thought process…to say the least.

My self purgation process is well underway as well. Let me tell ya…if you haven’t done anything like this before…even if you aren’t following this class…I would HIGHLY recommend you steal this exercise. It is a huge eye opener and has been very beneficial for me, even if it has been a little painful. The description, and suggestion of this process alone is worth the price of the book IMHO.

Her breathing exercises are very nice as a quick means to center yourself. I find myself using the 4-2-4 breathing all over the place. In meetings…in the car…pretty much everywhere. Same with the relaxation exercises…though I have been using rexation exercises for years along with daily transcendental meditation (I was TM trained 12ish years ago).

I personally have been doing a TON of work on these topics. Truly this is a life changing path for me…in a very drastic way in my particular case. Truthfully I have never been more excited to be alive, happier with myself and my surroundings. So please forgive me if I am overly enthusiastic. This is a process that literally has turned on the lights for the first time in my 32years of life. It’s simply amazing.

Anyway…enough for now. You all who haven’t begun work need some time to chew on this stuff. If I can help clarify anything please don’t hesitate to ask.

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 02:35 PM
OH...I forgot to include this above.

In regards to the meditation distraction record/graph. This is another brilliant idea IMHO. Its a tangible way to keep track of your progress. We used something like this when I was first trained in TM. The author doest talk about this but keeping count of the distractions while meditating is a distraction in itself.

A little trick I learned is to use beads...in my case I have a very old sandalwood mala. Each time your concentration lapses grab a bead. This process helps you both to count your distractions plus it serves as a reinforcement to redirect your train of thought back to the subject at hand. When you conclude the meditation...its a simple thing to count how many beads you had to grab and to jot it down on your spread sheet.

The object of course is to see as few interruptions as possible. This is a brilliant tool for providing tangible indication of progress for those new to meditation.

Highly Highly recommend this tracking and the beads for counting.

Qara
July 1st, 2003, 04:30 PM
Sorry, just going back to the Temple Cloth for a quick question...

Thanks Toad for putting up the pics of your cloth - looks great! v beautiful, and inspiring - and the design from the book. I've realised that, looking at the two, that the correspondances that you have used have lots more "correspondance" for me than the ones in the book do. Esp. the water=green correspondance. My question is, does the book say at all why green is in this position? or can anyone suggest why?

I was going to use the book correspondances but now I'm not so sure. It would be a shame if I made something I found hard to connect to...

I'm waiting for the book to arrive - will be a week or so!

The connection I can think of is: green - heart chakra - emotions - water. And it's strange, I can feel the connection with green and love, as sort-of something very alive and nurturing, and love and water, as something very expansive and liquid-like, but I am struggling with putting these ideas together.

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 04:46 PM
Sorry, just going back to the Temple Cloth for a quick question...

Thanks Toad for putting up the pics of your cloth - looks great! v beautiful, and inspiring - and the design from the book. I've realised that, looking at the two, that the correspondances that you have used have lots more "correspondance" for me than the ones in the book do. Esp. the water=green correspondance. My question is, does the book say at all why green is in this position? or can anyone suggest why?

I was going to use the book correspondances but now I'm not so sure. It would be a shame if I made something I found hard to connect to...

I'm waiting for the book to arrive - will be a week or so!

The connection I can think of is: green - heart chakra - emotions - water. And it's strange, I can feel the connection with green and love, as sort-of something very alive and nurturing, and love and water, as something very expansive and liquid-like, but I am struggling with putting these ideas together.

To quote the author:

East is the station of air so use sky blue, red for fire in the south, the green for the ocean in the west and gold for the cornfields in the north which is the station of the earth mother.

Now as to WHY she chose this correspondence? I dunno. I am not sure where this came from.

I of course changed the correspondence cause I just could not get my head wrapped around her colors. To me earth is green, water is blue, fire is red. Truthfully I am indifferent for yellow being air...but thats what I first learned so I stuck with it. My directions are the same as hers...I only changed the colors.

I would love to hear where these colors came from initially. Are these a Golden Dawn thing? The author is/was an Adept in GD.

Rain Gnosis
July 1st, 2003, 04:49 PM
:lol: I was just going to post to mention the computer journalling software I like, then I realized you'd just mentioned it Toad :D

Toad
July 1st, 2003, 04:51 PM
:lol: I was just going to post to mention the computer journalling software I like, then I realized you'd just mentioned it Toad :D

You use the same program? :lol:

teyl
July 2nd, 2003, 12:46 AM
The connection I can think of is: green - heart chakra - emotions - water. And it's strange, I can feel the connection with green and love, as sort-of something very alive and nurturing, and love and water, as something very expansive and liquid-like, but I am struggling with putting these ideas together.
Qara, mine are different too. I am using the book design as a guide using the pillars (thanks to toad for telling me what they were all about) and everything else the same but with and my own interpretations of correspondences and their colours. I think the most important thing is that the cloth reates and means something to you.

materra
July 2nd, 2003, 01:16 AM
*cavorts about the thread* I got my book... woo hoo.

Zander770
July 2nd, 2003, 04:38 AM
To quote the author:East is the station of air so use sky blue, red for fire in the south, the green for the ocean in the west and gold for the cornfields in the north which is the station of the earth mother.

. . .To me earth is green, water is blue, fire is red. Truthfully I am indifferent for yellow being air...but thats what I first learned so I stuck with it. My directions are the same as hers...I only changed the colors.

I would love to hear where these colors came from initially. Are these a Golden Dawn thing? The author is/was an Adept in GD.

"initially," no . . . i do NOT know "where these 'sigils' 'came from'," (nor do i "know" of anyone whom DOES "know," ya know?!!?); but: i DO know that THIS is Straight Golden Dawn and how (partially/particularity; ; see my thread comments, below, if you care to) My "Temple" is Set-Up:

MICHAEL
fire
SOUTH
wands
RED (triangle)
green (SQUARE)

("something" like this):

http://www.robinwood.com/LivingtreeGrove/Graphics/GraphicsGIFs/PaganGraphics/Fire.GIF

GABRIEL
water
WEST
cups
BLUE (upside-down triangle)
orange (SQUARE)

http://www.robinwood.com/LivingtreeGrove/Graphics/GraphicsGIFs/PaganGraphics/Water.GIF

RAPHAEL
air
EAST
swords
YELLOW (split-triangle)
purple (SQUARE)

http://www.robinwood.com/LivingtreeGrove/Graphics/GraphicsGIFs/PaganGraphics/Air.GIF

and . . .

URIEL
earth
NORTH
pentacle
BLACK (split-triangle)
silver (i.e., "silver") (SQUARE)

http://www.robinwood.com/LivingtreeGrove/Graphics/GraphicsGIFs/PaganGraphics/Earth.GIF

Robin Wood © 1997, Used with Permission

Zander770
July 2nd, 2003, 04:58 AM
. . . A little trick I learned is to use beads...in my case I have a very old sandalwood mala. Each time your concentration lapses grab a bead. This process helps you both to count your distractions plus it serves as a reinforcement to redirect your train of thought back to the subject at hand. When you conclude the meditation...its a simple thing to count how many beads you had to grab and to jot it down on your spread sheet.

or? by "clicking-off" one bead per vibrated mantra (or? entire mantra)? but (O, Yeah . . .) malas are Great . . . just ask any priest . . . ("sorry!")

and: i, too, Toad, was (even) impressed by "david's" "45 day Trial" and i DO like the Journaling Software, very much, so far (so? THX for "turning us all on" to that!)

"mo' karma . . . mo' karma . . ."


:lilangel:

Xentor
July 2nd, 2003, 06:08 AM
I didn't read through every post here, since most of them concern the temple cloth.

Does anyone else build the temple out of a room? I've the space and time to do so. I like that idea better than a temple cloth (I'm not so good at nitting and sewing, but I sure can make curtains and paint the walls!). I saw someone (lapse of memory) who wanted to use their meditation room as temple. Nice choice. Anyone else?

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 10:44 AM
I was going to use the book correspondances but now I'm not so sure. It would be a shame if I made something I found hard to connect to...

If there is even a glimmer of doubt, then use your own correspondence.

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 10:47 AM
:lol: I was just going to post to mention the computer journalling software I like, then I realized you'd just mentioned it Toad :D

I dont feel the software is the best route. (Shock, huh?) The whole process and labor of writing this stuff down and then destroying it is a very important ritual in and of itself. I cant see it having the same psychological effect as hitting the delete key. :)

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 10:48 AM
*cavorts about the thread* I got my book... woo hoo.

Rock on!

Rain Gnosis
July 2nd, 2003, 10:54 AM
Not sure about the destroying bit.

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 11:04 AM
Not sure about the destroying bit.

The eventual 'destruction' of past memories is a very important part of purging one's 'self'. You are symbolically saying...the past is past and it is no more. The labor of actually making yourself remember painful memories and then writing them down and then burning them to a crisp has a very phsycological affect. What I am saying is that I can't see getting the same effect with typing these things into the computer and then hitting the delete key. *shrugs* The labor of remembering is still there. But, typing is WAY more easier for me than writing so that is less work and obviously hitting a delete key when everything is finished is a lot easier and a lot less symbolic that dropping a journal into a fire.

Toad
July 2nd, 2003, 11:11 AM
I dont feel the software is the best route. (Shock, huh?) The whole process and labor of writing this stuff down and then destroying it is a very important ritual in and of itself. I cant see it having the same psychological effect as hitting the delete key. :)


I had thought of that Mol...honestly. :)

First my mention of the journal software was not strictly for the self purgation. This journal software has become my magical diary/book of shadows, my dream diary, my tarot diary, and my ritual diary. My handwriting is horrible and well...I like to work on these types of things in my free time at work and such. I dont like the idea of toting a binder around with all this stuff in it. Anyway...

Yes, I am also using it for the purgation process but that is purely an issue of both security and convenience. I am a laptop user...so its very handy for me to do this with software.

I had planned to print out a hard copy of this for my ritual. Actually I would print it out...then wipe it from my drive. The hard copy would be my only version. I do totally understand you point of writing this down by hand...its very valid point. Its not one I had really considered in depth...I just always assumed that buring the printout would be quite effective. However, with your point I have to agree with you.

I guess I will go get me a notebook and start hand copying this stuff. =)

Rain Gnosis
July 2nd, 2003, 11:18 AM
The eventual 'destruction' of past memories is a very important part of purging one's 'self'. You are symbolically saying...the past is past and it is no more. The labor of actually making yourself remember painful memories and then writing them down and then burning them to a crisp has a very phsycological affect.

No, I was more or less thinking I started a magical diary again and hoping to keep it up and keep it rather than burning it, for my own personal use. Sorry my mind wanders, and I wasn't even thinking in the context of the purging in this lesson. Brain turned off, ya know?

Toad - it helps me to write in all caps - I donno if that'll work for you, but when I'm handwriting I tend to devolve back and forth between writing and printing and slanting my letters back and forth and whatnot till it's illegible. Somehow writing in all capitals prevents that (probably because capitals aren't joined, I have to pick up the pen each time I write a letter, and I write them straight up and down rather then leaning one way or the other). Believe it or not, I just thought of this the other day when I was halfass watching Oprah and a girl who was instructed to start journalling was seen to be writing in all capitals - and I thought wait a minute, I can do that. I started writing in all caps the other day and have finally found myself able to handwrite a diary! So, just a thought.

materra
July 2nd, 2003, 11:45 AM
I always write in Caps, have forever. For years I was accused of wanting to be a doctor. Once I started printing it got more legible, and translators could read it. Actually my messy writing comes from 30 years of charting for records during case management.

But I must confess I prefer typing these days.

Sigh. This is going to take a while....

Rain Gnosis
July 2nd, 2003, 11:57 AM
yeah I prefer to type as well. I can type better then 100wpm at top speed, but I can't write fast or for very long anymore.

I'm such a geek ;)

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 12:05 PM
Well, I guess the saving grace about the 'purging' diary is that...being legible is not required. After all, the actual remembering of the events/memories is the important part. Just jot down a note about the memory and be off to the next one. The whole point of this excerise is to:

Remember.
Forget.

Two opposite ends of the pole but very crucial when it comes to Magic. Remember that you are startingon a new road. A new way of life. If afterwards you decide to not work Ceremonial Magic, then fine. But, the purging will still stand with you along with the temple you are slowly building inside of your heart and mind.

Xentor
July 2nd, 2003, 12:09 PM
I started out writing, then switched to the computer. I can't read my own handwriting so contemplating on my own writing afterwards has no use.

As for destroying it, I thought I'd print all of it, read it very carefully, perhaps make notes, and then burn the print.

As for the deletion, I thought of using some tool that not only deletes the file, but overwrites it with a lot of zeros as well. Gone for good.

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 12:11 PM
As for the deletion, I thought of using some tool that not only deletes the file, but overwrites it with a lot of zeros as well. Gone for good.

Ok. Ok. I guess the process of a low-level format would be a good substitution for fire.

Rain Gnosis
July 2nd, 2003, 12:13 PM
I dunno, formatting can be pretty cathartik but I agree setting things on fire somehow seems more destructive.

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 12:29 PM
I dunno, formatting can be pretty cathartik but I agree setting things on fire somehow seems more destructive.

To quote the great God Beavis: "Playing with fire KICK ASS!"

Toad
July 2nd, 2003, 12:51 PM
To quote the great God Beavis: "Playing with fire KICK ASS!"


WOW...I just had an honest to diety prophetic vision.

I clearly see crispy hamburgers in my near future! :lol:

mol
July 2nd, 2003, 02:12 PM
WOW...I just had an honest to diety prophetic vision.

I clearly see crispy hamburgers in my near future! :lol:

Haha...plenty of beer to wash em down though. :)

Semele
July 2nd, 2003, 06:14 PM
As for the deletion, I thought of using some tool that not only deletes the file, but overwrites it with a lot of zeros as well. Gone for good.

Dear Gods!! What have you all done that you have to be so careful noone sees it?? Do I want to know?? I am scared!! :lol:

I haven't written anything on paper in a long time..well except for charting and even that is brief..breathing..no bleeding! This should be interesting. I am wondering though, because she mentions detail..do we need to write all the detail or just remember it all and jot a small note? What does everyone else think?

materra
July 2nd, 2003, 06:26 PM
I for one have really mixed feelings about this. As a Mental Health professional I have seen this kind of deep memory purging both help and hurt. It helps if it is dealt with correctly. But if old traumas are revisited without dealing with it correctly... yikes. I don't know. IMO just a brief note and acknowledgement that it happened and you moved on is good. Really deep re-living through writing it all out, every gory detail??? No thank you. Oh and I would want a copy of that wipe it out with zeros deal for my puter too. Sorry Semele, but some of the folks in my childhood were less than steller parents or people. I wouldn't want information about my personal stuff just lying about on my hard drive for someone to find... like my kids. Ick oh ick.

Xentor
July 2nd, 2003, 06:31 PM
Dear Gods!! What have you all done that you have to be so careful noone sees it?? Do I want to know?? I am scared!! :lol:


:rotfl:

It's perfectly alright for others to read and find out how my mind works. It's okay to be scared, really...

No, the destructive bit is only intended to be as ritualistic in nature as setting the print-out on fire: creating a clean slate and knowing I can move on from there.

Rain Gnosis
July 2nd, 2003, 07:04 PM
She is adamant that we must write, in detail, of these experiences, both good and bad. She wisely points out...that these memories are the past and cant cause us any further harm.

At the end of the month we are to analyze these writings. Look at this individual (yourself) as if they were a fictional character in a novel. We are to examine the situations and to see what/if any lessons were learned from the experiences and if those lessons were applied in the future.

Once this process is complete she suggest burning these notebooks in the process of accepting the person that is represented in them


She spends a bit of time stressing that as we go forward we must keep written records of our activities. Our exercise times, our meditations, our dreams and of course our rituals. She makes a point of stressing that these recordings should be short and concise...they are to be used as reference.

Oh I see, so the first journalling exercise here is to focus on the past and purge it - recognizing what was useful and accepting it so one can move on. This was something we focused on in Kemetic class - each day the rites were centered around the idea of Zep Tepi - the first time - emphasizing the past as formative of the present, but also accepting and letting go of it, and realizing that right now is every possibility of hope and truth. Very cleansing.


1 - Magic is the Art of Causation
2 - Magic...speaks to the subconscious mind of man through...symbols and rituals.
3 - Change is Growth
4 - There is no part of me that is not of the Gods
5 - The subconscious mind ... works through images not words
6 - The Universe is a Living Organism
7 - The Tree of Life
8- Symbols are a means of communication, a form of shorthand
9 - Astral Magic is meditation materialized to visual imagery
10 - All things are possible to the trained mind

I think these would be good meditations in general! I wonder if we'll be discussing each of these more carefully in turn.

Toad
July 2nd, 2003, 08:59 PM
I think these would be good meditations in general! I wonder if we'll be discussing each of these more carefully in turn.

I sincerely hope so...these meditations have been very valuable to me.

mol
July 3rd, 2003, 03:17 PM
Should another thread be started just for the discussions of meditation or should we just continue it in here.

Also, I know that the author said to use detail when writing things out for purging but I dont see this as particularly useful. Like I said before, the actual act of remembering and acknowledging that you learned something from it and then jotting a note down about it should be enough. I said before that these were the important points.

1. Remember
2. Forget

Well, let me revise...

1. Remember the event
2. Remember what you learned
3. Forget the event
4. Keep what you learned

shiloki
July 5th, 2003, 11:53 PM
man - you really can't even miss a couple days around here, can you...ya come back and it takes you an hour to catch up!!....

anyway...i've about given up on making any kind of temple anything...for now anyway...i thought of at least making a smaller "token" version just so i could feel like i did something, but my life just isn't conducive (sp?) to dedicating myself to a major project like that....or, maybe that's part of my problem....maybe i *should* divert my attention specifically....i'll have to think on that....

still don't have the book, but here are my thoughts on what toad said the book says:

even before i really had any inkling as to what magik might be, i found the idea of "purging" to be very usefull...i've only once performed an actual purging of any kind, but it did seem to help...in that case, i was trying to purge myself of certain feelings for a certain someone i didn't want to have certain feelings for anymore....so i had myself i little ceremony, thought really hard about how i felt, thought even harder about not feeling that way anymore and then burned his picture....and subsequently shattered the glass bowl i was burning it in 'cause i was 15 and, for some reason, didn't realize glass blows up when it gets too hot....but, i felt better later....

i have a lot of pent up memories...i tend to internatlize everything (particularly bad stuff) and carry around with me for eternity...so, this excercise can be extremely useful...all that stored emotion can, in itself, become a serious distraction...which is a poiont toad said the author made, i think...the only problem with that is finding enough paper to put it all down on....hah hah....

as for the meditation....i've never been good at anything "routine" or "regemented"...unless my checkbook depends on it....getting up for work everyday seems to be the only routine i have...but i can definately see how the centered breathing can help...one question...i'm a smoker (yes, i know how bad that is) so taking deeps breaths and holding them sometimes makes me light headed....is there a specific depth of breath i should be taking or is the light-headedness to be expected??...also, some of you, like toad and materra, have mentioned meditation classes you've taken...where can one find classes like that?...i could seriously use all the help i can get....

toad mentioned he wasn't quite sure about the "imagery" part of the meditation suggested by the author...like the centered breathing, i'm not too big on meditation, with one exception...i sometimes have a really hard time going to sleep because my mind won't shut-up, so i've developed a technique i see as meditation to help me go to sleep despite my brain....i close my eyes and just think the word "sleep" over and over and over and at the same time try to visualize nothing but blackness and a single candle flame....apparently it works 'cause...well... i fall asleep....

anyway...i gotta go feed my beastie....so....that's it for now.

Toad
July 6th, 2003, 12:57 PM
Should another thread be started just for the discussions of meditation or should we just continue it in here.

Also, I know that the author said to use detail when writing things out for purging but I dont see this as particularly useful. Like I said before, the actual act of remembering and acknowledging that you learned something from it and then jotting a note down about it should be enough. I said before that these were the important points.

1. Remember
2. Forget

Well, let me revise...

1. Remember the event
2. Remember what you learned
3. Forget the event
4. Keep what you learned

First, to answer your question...I am happy to discuss the meditations here or in another thread...I am indifferent.

Secondly, while I certianly respect the view points expressed by the self purgation I personally went into quite a lot of detail. I have found that particular exercise quite eye opening.

Xentor
July 6th, 2003, 05:09 PM
Yes, let's leave this thread to the temple and purgatory and start a new one on the meditation bit. Divide and rule.

Lunacie
July 6th, 2003, 05:30 PM
Wow Toad! Thank you so much for sharing all this info for those like ME who haven't been able to get hold of a book. I had been wondering about the placement of the doorway in the temple and none of the photos was showing that clearly enough for my bad eyes to make it out. And I love the idea of using beads to keep track during meditation. I suppose if I run out of beads I will know it's time to stop trying and do something else for a while, eh?


I actually had to deal with a disturbing memory on the last day of June, and had been wondering what to do with all the feelings that had been dredged up. This idea of jotting down a few words about what I remembered and felt and understanding that the memory has no power to hurt me is very much like a weight has been lifted. I find it hard to believe in coincidences, so I suspect that Diety had a hand in putting two events together to help me face this past lesson and realize that I have learned something from it. I only wish Diety had prompted me to catch up on this thread a few days ago so I would have realized that I am not re-living the experience, but I am actually purging it. Whew.


Rain Gnosis, thank YOU for the tip on printing in ALL CAPS. My handwriting is tremendously sloppy, and although my printing starts out very nice, it soon becomes sloppy as well. I will try this trick and see if it helps make my writing more legible.

Toad
July 6th, 2003, 09:05 PM
I had been wondering about the placement of the doorway in the temple and none of the photos was showing that clearly enough for my bad eyes to make it out. And I love the idea of using beads to keep track during meditation. I suppose if I run out of beads I will know it's time to stop trying and do something else for a while, eh?




A couple of people have asked about the door...

The author calls for the door in the North/West. I put it due west so that I entered between the columns on the west. This wasnt an arbitrary change on my part.

I am glad you like the bead trick...I use a sandalwood mala...it has 108 beads...if I ever run out I am going to take up knitting. =)

mol
July 6th, 2003, 09:35 PM
Semele and I have finally decided to go with a room after all. After a lot of thought and trips to the fabric store we just felt itwas more feasible for us to construct a small room just for ceremonial purposes. We will most likely be using our closet in our master bedroom...which is huge. After we plan a bit more I will post about it.

Zander770
July 6th, 2003, 10:54 PM
Should another thread be started just for the discussions of meditation or should we just continue it in here . . .Also, I know that the author said to use detail when writing things out for purging . . .

yes yes yes: a new Meditation thread . . . pleeeeeze.

concerning your "sentence #2," this is something "i call" (sometimes) "spiritualization . . ." e.g., say . . . one's having "problems" w/a person whom was VERY "important" in their lives but are now "DEAD." one might "write a letter" and, then--"spiritualise" it . . . meaning:

BURN IT. (fire, &c) . . .

this is nothing new, AT ALL, here (BUT! IT WORKS, o soooooooo terribly! it does . . .)

Zander770
July 6th, 2003, 11:03 PM
Semele and I have finally decided to go with a room after all. After a lot of thought and trips to the fabric store we just felt itwas more feasible for us to construct a small room just for ceremonial purposes. We will most likely be using our closet in our master bedroom...which is huge

wish "I" could do just that . . . (and: w/a "newbe" coming! on second thought: a "closet" sounds perfeeeeeect! might it have an "inner-lock," therein, too?!!?)


aHAa!!!!
i'm STILL just using my "livingrm" (where i type this, now) as my "temple," too . . . it's (All of "IT" in the magician's "mind," anyway . . . viz: my "real" Temple? 3 UNDERSTANDING saturn BINAH . . .)

see ya all there, some/ANYtime!!!!

all ya gotta "do" is look for the #1/The Magician Key upon the Front Door . . . then?

KNOCK.

mol
July 7th, 2003, 10:24 AM
*scratches head*

Zander, what are you talking about man? :D

Toad
July 7th, 2003, 10:50 AM
Let me translate here...



wish "I" could do just that . . . (and: w/a "newbe" coming! on second thought: a "closet" sounds perfeeeeeect! might it have an "inner-lock," therein, too?!!?)


aHAa!!!!
i'm STILL just using my "livingrm" (where i type this, now) as my "temple," too . . . it's (All of "IT" in the magician's "mind," anyway . . . viz: my "real" Temple? 3 UNDERSTANDING saturn BINAH . . .)

see ya all there, some/ANYtime!!!!

all ya gotta "do" is look for the #1/The Magician Key upon the Front Door . . . then?

KNOCK.

I wish that I could use a room as well. With a baby on the way that doesnt seem likely. On second thought a closet might just work...especially if it has a lock as well.

Currently I am using my living room (also where my computer is) as a temple. Of course the magicians temple is truly his own mind -(something about saturn and Binah sephiroth)- You all are welcome anytime...just look for the door with the Magician Tarot card on the door and knock for entry.

Toad
July 7th, 2003, 10:51 AM
Sorry Zander...just funnin' :smoke:

(((((Zander770)))))

materra
July 7th, 2003, 11:45 AM
Actually, that might be a fair translation, right Zander? I know that you really have some skills with tarot...which I would love to have. (Zander used to do readings in the local metaphysical store about 6 blocks from me plus his other readings.)

Anyway, here is my news, this weekend I went to a used furniture place and purchased a wonderful painted cupboard. It has shelves on the top half and drawers on the bottom. I am very excited, it seems just right for me, not too big or small and it cost only 149.00.

By the way when I say painted... I mean artist quality fields and mountains on it with animals here and there. Good artist quality. It is a fabulous find IMO plus sturdy enough for my magical stuff and books.

I will be doing a painted floor cloth, I have the brushes and some of the paints, so I will get a few more colors and it will be good. I was planning on using my studio space for this....cleansing every time. However I love the closet plan Mol and Semele, I actually may have to rethink my studio plan now. I have a big walk in closet too. Hmmmm. Rats, too many choices.

Semele
July 7th, 2003, 03:52 PM
The funny thing is that we had purchased some needles and thread at the fabric store and then decided to go to anothe rplace to get the fabric. Well in the discussions we decided to use the original closet idea and we both felt relieved..we were kind of stressing about the cloth for different reasons. My main fear was that it would take us a year and a day to complete.

Anyway, Mol said, "Oh well, now we are out $14." Then we went to Southern Agriculture to pick up some pet stuff and the guy at the register said, "If you fill out this coupon I can give you $14 off."

Woo-Hoo! Kind of affirmed that we had made the right decision after all.

mol
July 8th, 2003, 05:23 PM
Here is a link to our meditation discussion thread. Please post your experiences during meditation especially on the topics provided but certainly not limited to them.

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=29169

Also, how are the temples coming along? Semele and I have mapped ours out and will probably start working on it this week barring any changes in the game plan.

Rain Gnosis
July 8th, 2003, 05:31 PM
(something about saturn and Binah sephiroth)

Saturn is associated with Binah, the third sephirah on the tree, corresponding with understanding.

Toad
July 8th, 2003, 05:40 PM
Saturn is associated with Binah, the third sephirah on the tree, corresponding with understanding.

D'OH

Toad
July 8th, 2003, 05:42 PM
Here is a link to our meditation discussion thread. Please post your experiences during meditation especially on the topics provided but certainly not limited to them.

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?threadid=29169

Also, how are the temples coming along? Semele and I have mapped ours out and will probably start working on it this week barring any changes in the game plan.


You guys knocking out that wall? or just confining it to that closet?

mol
July 8th, 2003, 11:22 PM
You guys knocking out that wall? or just confining it to that closet?

We are going to confine it. Actually, we are going to cut it in half with the back half acting as our de facto Temple and the rest being a good ol closet, still. Since we are going to be knocking the whole closet out eventually to expand our bathroom this really makes more sense to use this area. Especially since the Temple will only be used for a short period of time.

Zander770
July 9th, 2003, 10:01 AM
Sorry Zander...just funnin' :smoke: (((((Zander770)))))

oy vey!

actually, toad's "translation" (i'm "used to" this, as mentioned, above; because--albeit i do write within mla guideline standards and practices, i tend to use latin abbreviations; joycian, yeatsian, & crowlean "puns, metaphors, and aphorisms"; qaballa & g.:.d.:. "concepts, terms & ideals" that MAY NOT BE always as quickly gleaned off the top of someone else's head ["sooooo? i'm 'socratic . . .' go 'look it up'!"], et. al. (and Other Things), when i get "excited" and/or about to" pass-out" upon a longish day of "megalomania" AND "keeping me arse in the chair . . ."

basically, upon earning a magister templi degree one's supposed to have a strong temple based in BINAH (the black, third sephira on the tree of life . . . and its the Eleventh Path which "can" take [some people prefer to "jump"] you there and that which Key #1/The Magician lays upon--The Door TO BINAH [this is how i would "find" the sephira BINAH! finding my Temple proved much harder . . . esp after "leaving it" in its lonesome, unprotected]! altho I must admit to being drawn like "the moth to the flame" of YOD, the eighth sephira, in "comfort and creativity," and Other Things) this is all astral pathworking, that's all . . .

and, Other Times? mayhap i be out-and-out "countin' my coo" or practicing the ancient Art of Slight of Hand), HOWEVER: in this case toad's pretty "right-on" to exactly close!

"to my mentor: Zaziel!" (spirit of saturn; of archangel Tsafkiel; god of Isis; sephira of BINAH; numero trice; color black . . .)

Slan Agus Beannact,
:stomp: ("sheeeeeee!!!")
~Z77o~





Toad: I wish that I could use a room as well. With a baby on the way that doesnt seem likely. On second thought a closet might just work...especially if it has a lock as well.

Currently I am using my living room (also where my computer is) as a temple. Of course the magicians temple is truly his own mind -(something about saturn and Binah sephiroth)- You all are welcome anytime...just look for the door with the Magician Tarot card on the door and knock for entry.


Originally Posted by Zander770

wish "I" could do just that . . . (and: w/a "newbe" coming! on second thought: a "closet" sounds perfeeeeeect! might it have an "inner-lock," therein, too?!!?)

aHAa!!!!
i'm STILL just using my "livingrm" (where i type this, now) as my "temple," too . . . it's (All of "IT" in the magician's "mind," anyway . . . viz: my "real" Temple? 3 UNDERSTANDING saturn BINAH . . .)

see ya all there, some/ANYtime!!!!

all ya gotta "do" is look for the #1/The Magician Key upon the Front Door . . . then?

KNOCK.

Toad
July 9th, 2003, 10:11 AM
HOWEVER[/b]: in this case toad's pretty "right-on" to exactly close![/size][/font]



BWAA HAHAHA Thats truly classic Zander! You had me laughing out loud.

Toad
July 9th, 2003, 10:39 AM
We are going to confine it. Actually, we are going to cut it in half with the back half acting as our de facto Temple and the rest being a good ol closet, still. Since we are going to be knocking the whole closet out eventually to expand our bathroom this really makes more sense to use this area. Especially since the Temple will only be used for a short period of time.

Mol...I have to admit this to someone. Maybe you can stop me.

As you know...the wife is going out of town for most of the month. As I went to bed last night I was planning on how to corner off my garage and build a fairly large temple.

I mean I only need two walls and flooring. If I place it correctly I can pull in an existing light fixture and electrical socket. Plus I already have a window air conditioner sitting in a box in the garage that I could mount and exhaust into the garage proper.

I could easily have this completed by the time she gets back...and as they say...its better to ask forgiveness than permission.

:devil:

Zander770
July 10th, 2003, 11:31 AM
BWAA HAHAHA Thats truly classic Zander! You had me laughing out loud.
. . . "thanks" (i guess).

i'm glad to amuse you. you guys are truly "over my head," for sure. and, btw? that's a Reall Good Idea that you have . . . regarding the "remodeling" while your wife isn't present.

GENIUS!

e-gad . . .

file:///C:/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Zander21demon!!!whiterun.gif

mol
July 10th, 2003, 11:33 AM
Mol...I have to admit this to someone. Maybe you can stop me.

As you know...the wife is going out of town for most of the month. As I went to bed last night I was planning on how to corner off my garage and build a fairly large temple.

I mean I only need two walls and flooring. If I place it correctly I can pull in an existing light fixture and electrical socket. Plus I already have a window air conditioner sitting in a box in the garage that I could mount and exhaust into the garage proper.

I could easily have this completed by the time she gets back...and as they say...its better to ask forgiveness than permission.



Heh. And a nice little kitty sitting in the floor could lighten the shock up a bit on her return. ;)

Zander770
July 10th, 2003, 11:38 AM
Heh. And a nice little kitty sitting in the floor could lighten the shock up a bit on her return. ;)

o, yes . . . "sitting" would be Good . . . 'cause--i bet--"someone else'll" be s*itting . . ." on the floor and/or elsewhere . . .

e-gads, man . . .

Toad
July 10th, 2003, 01:04 PM
o, yes . . . "sitting" would be Good . . . 'cause--i bet--"someone else'll" be s*itting . . ." on the floor and/or elsewhere . . .

e-gads, man . . .


I think I am just gonna use the old 'Trading Places' line here...

'Yea...'

Toad
July 10th, 2003, 01:05 PM
Heh. And a nice little kitty sitting in the floor could lighten the shock up a bit on her return. ;)


Actually...I have been specifically warned against that. :geez:

Zander770
July 10th, 2003, 01:11 PM
I think I am just gonna use the old 'Trading Places' line here...

'Yea...'

i think i've had quite enough of this . . . :fishsmack i . . . am . . . OUTTA here!

have fun, boys!!!

materra
July 10th, 2003, 01:25 PM
Wow, you are going to be in such trouble Toad. I have a suggestion or two tho... don't vent the airconditioner into your garage unless it is a carport, you will be forcing bad smells and gases into your home if they are attached, and the extra heat will be awful. You will need a standard air conditioner opening and they can be framed in fairly easily. You can get the airconditioning venting sleeves and installation info at your local lumber yard or building center.

My other suggestion is using staging nails... the double headed ones? That way if you have to take it down it won't be as hard. We used them for several different "room additions" in rental properties, and then we were able to take them down with minimal damages. A bit of patching and paint...good as new.

I would also recommend a spotless house upon her return, really spotless. Oh, and no kitties. Good luck you crazy guy you.... :)

mol
July 10th, 2003, 01:27 PM
Oh, and no kitties. Good luck you crazy guy you.... :)

On no...believe me. She wants the kitty.

Toad
July 10th, 2003, 02:00 PM
On no...believe me. She wants the kitty.
OH I know she does...she is giving me the 'It wont be a kitten when I get back' and 'it wont know who I am if she comes before I got back'. But she did tell me directly...please dont have the kitty waiting for me.

*shrug*

Go Figure...

materra
July 10th, 2003, 02:04 PM
Maybe if you tell her the new room is for the kitty and that you will clean the cat box for it... and feed it and comb it and take it to the vet, and....you get the picture. I love kitties, but... I don't have one. I don't have the time currently to take care of one.
But someday... yeppers... I will have two kitties.

Toad
July 10th, 2003, 02:23 PM
Wow, you are going to be in such trouble Toad. I have a suggestion or two tho... don't vent the airconditioner into your garage unless it is a carport, you will be forcing bad smells and gases into your home if they are attached, and the extra heat will be awful. You will need a standard air conditioner opening and they can be framed in fairly easily. You can get the airconditioning venting sleeves and installation info at your local lumber yard or building center.

My other suggestion is using staging nails... the double headed ones? That way if you have to take it down it won't be as hard. We used them for several different "room additions" in rental properties, and then we were able to take them down with minimal damages. A bit of patching and paint...good as new.

I would also recommend a spotless house upon her return, really spotless. Oh, and no kitties. Good luck you crazy guy you.... :)

IFI go ahead with this. I am pretty much stuck with venting into the garage for the AC as there is no external wall in the area I want to put the room. I do agree with your suggestion...however I only plan to run AC in the summer...and only when I am in the temple. I wouldnt think it would be that big of a deal.

I could always just punch another hole in the walls and splice into the existing ducting...which thinking about it is a much better idea anyway.

Staging nails is another good suggestion. While I have done quite a few household renovations I have never really done one that I intended to take down at some point like this one.

I am still not totally convinced I will do it. I am trying to weigh just how she will react. I dont know if it will make her mad as much as it will give her fuel to make me do some other things she has been moaning about...like putting in a deck and hot tub. (which I am partially blaming on Mol BTW). :)

materra
July 10th, 2003, 02:39 PM
Toad, if you build your temple you better build a small deck at the very least. It is only fair. :D

I like your rerouting the Air ducts. It is more up to code and less likely to attract attention from the wrong sorts. Just have good gloves, I hate metal cuts. Used to get them all the time.... and lately I am thinking of doing some more metal work so I will be in the same boat. I saw this hanging candle light I want... but it needs a couple of tweeks.... so I will have to build it.

Toad
July 10th, 2003, 02:45 PM
Toad, if you build your temple you better build a small deck at the very least. It is only fair. :D




Yea...you are right. I was thinking if I could get the deck in and build her some new chairs for the dining room (I bought a lathe last week and I am dying to use it)...I can probably do just about anything I want in the garage. =)

mol
July 10th, 2003, 02:47 PM
I am still not totally convinced I will do it. I am trying to weigh just how she will react. I dont know if it will make her mad as much as it will give her fuel to make me do some other things she has been moaning about...like putting in a deck and hot tub. (which I am partially blaming on Mol BTW). :)

Haha! Don't blame me for that, man! You said you wanted one yourself!

Toad
July 10th, 2003, 02:49 PM
Haha! Don't blame me for that, man! You said you wanted one yourself!

Yea...I guess that is true. I did say I want one. I just dont want to PAY for one. :)

mol
July 10th, 2003, 03:51 PM
Yea...I guess that is true. I did say I want one. I just dont want to PAY for one. :)
Haha!

Toad
July 11th, 2003, 05:06 PM
Well looks like its official.

Wife and I discussed it before she flew out this morning. Since she is going to be away for most of the month...and I will need something to keep my busy :wah2: ...I get to build a hard temple in the garage as long as I promise to clean the garage out. Course I HAVE to clean the garage out to do the construction.

Anyone need wall fabrication 101 classes? :devil:

materra
July 11th, 2003, 06:09 PM
You go guy...

Lathe???? Oh oh, may need a road trip there... I need lathe lessons. :D

Toad
July 13th, 2003, 09:29 PM
Justy an FYI for those with the book.

I was able to tie the first knot in my cord this evening. :)

Lunacie
July 13th, 2003, 09:48 PM
Justy an FYI for those with the book.

I was able to tie the first knot in my cord this evening. :)

Woot! Congratulations, I think. I don't have the book and don't have a clue what this signifies. But I have no doubt that it signifies some kind of accomplishment. :)

Toad
July 13th, 2003, 11:49 PM
Woot! Congratulations, I think. I don't have the book and don't have a clue what this signifies. But I have no doubt that it signifies some kind of accomplishment. :)

I gather that the knot signifies the conclusion of your first month or initiation to this path. All I really know is the author says once you have completed these tasks tie a knot in your cord in this way.

In other words I have finished month one and I am moving into month 2 exercises....then again I did kinda start early....so dont mind me. =)

materra
July 14th, 2003, 10:59 AM
There's always one in every class... someone who works ahead, is helpful to the teacher and gets every assignment done correctly. I guess you're it in this class. :rollingla

Toad
July 14th, 2003, 11:08 AM
There's always one in every class... someone who works ahead, is helpful to the teacher and gets every assignment done correctly. I guess you're it in this class. :rollingla

OH crap! Your right!

Now that is seriously depressing.

Do I need to start skipping class and throwing spit wads at Mol when he isnt looking? Perhaps an exploding apple on his desk? :bad:

Semele
July 14th, 2003, 03:29 PM
Well congratulations Toad, my amphibious friend! You can do all the cord tieing, room and deck building you want, but soon you are going to seriously start missing your sweeties and the meanie. When you do, come on over and play with our lil sweetie and meanie, besides, I kind of want a deck too!! ;)

Toad
July 14th, 2003, 03:40 PM
Well congratulations Toad, my amphibious friend! You can do all the cord tieing, room and deck building you want, but soon you are going to seriously start missing your sweeties and the meanie. When you do, come on over and play with our lil sweetie and meanie, besides, I kind of want a deck too!! ;)


I have already extended the offer of free raw fish and as much sake as he can consume. All he has to say is when. =)

As for a deck...give me the word and send Mol to Lowes with me and we can get to work on that. Would truly be cake in your back yard with that concrete slab. =)

Btw - I already told them it was time to come home...but they are havin fun :

SylverStar
July 15th, 2003, 03:33 AM
I'm almost done with my cloth (I'm a little slow). But after I finished putting the element pieces on the light was shining through and making leaf patterns on the Earth circle and streaks through the Fire circle which made it look like a mini sunset. I thought that was really cool and I should share.

Toad
July 15th, 2003, 02:53 PM
I'm almost done with my cloth (I'm a little slow). But after I finished putting the element pieces on the light was shining through and making leaf patterns on the Earth circle and streaks through the Fire circle which made it look like a mini sunset. I thought that was really cool and I should share.


Cool! When do we get some pics?

SylverStar
July 15th, 2003, 10:19 PM
That may take awhile since I don't have my own computer. Plus I'm a procrastinator.

mol
July 18th, 2003, 09:57 AM
I have already extended the offer of free raw fish and as much sake as he can consume. All he has to say is when. =)

When! How about next week...sometime. :)


As for a deck...give me the word and send Mol to Lowes with me and we can get to work on that. Would truly be cake in your back yard with that concrete slab. =)

Rock on. Of course, we should probably design the thing first, eh? I think the first thing I want you to help me with is still the hottub.


Btw - I already told them it was time to come home...but they are havin fun

They seem to forget everything else when there is fun involved! :D

mol
July 18th, 2003, 09:58 AM
Moving on....

How are we doing with everything so far? Is everyone up to speed...maybe a check in is in order here. Post a little bit and let everyone know where you are.

Toad
July 18th, 2003, 10:26 AM
When! How about next week...sometime. :)


Your on man...tell me what day and we are there.




Rock on. Of course, we should probably design the thing first, eh? I think the first thing I want you to help me with is still the hottub.


I don't blame ya man...I would want this working too! =) I really dont think this is a big deal though...I guess less than 2 hours (that includes runs to Lowes). The cost will be negligable...under $40 I would guess. That in mind you tell me when and I am all over it bro.

Toad
July 18th, 2003, 10:28 AM
Moving on....

How are we doing with everything so far? Is everyone up to speed...maybe a check in is in order here. Post a little bit and let everyone know where you are.

I know you know this...but...being the good student...

I have completed all the month one activites...including ones listed in the book that have not been discussed here (robes, consecration and reading lists). I am working on month two exercises. ;-)

mol
July 18th, 2003, 11:14 AM
Your on man...tell me what day and we are there.




I don't blame ya man...I would want this working too! =) I really dont think this is a big deal though...I guess less than 2 hours (that includes runs to Lowes). The cost will be negligable...under $40 I would guess. That in mind you tell me when and I am all over it bro.
Well, maybe next week we can do some dinner and then fix the hot tub. :)

Semele
July 18th, 2003, 11:31 AM
Well, maybe next week we can do some dinner and then fix the hot tub. :)
Stay on topic or I will ban ya!!!

mol
July 18th, 2003, 11:35 AM
Stay on topic or I will ban ya!!!
BAH! It's not against the rules!

Toad
July 18th, 2003, 11:36 AM
Stay on topic or I will ban ya!!!
Allow me Mol...

Hey Semele!

:razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz::razz:

:D

mol
July 18th, 2003, 11:43 AM
Lmao!

Semele
July 21st, 2003, 12:28 PM
I can edit the rules ya know?!

Also, I am thinking of including a new one about Toad's use of smilies!

Toad
July 21st, 2003, 12:33 PM
BOOO!

:razz:

Elise
September 3rd, 2003, 11:25 PM
The author suggest a month long process of documenting the ups and downs of your life to this point. She suggest having pen and paper at the constant ready and to continually work on jotting down past memories both the good and bad into these notebooks whenever you have a free moment. She makes great pains to point out that the clearest of our memories are most likely not very pleasant. She is adamant that we must write, in detail, of these experiences, both good and bad. She wisely points out...that these memories are the past and cant cause us any further harm.

Dear Gods!! What have you all done that you have to be so careful noone sees it?? Do I want to know?? I am scared!! :lol:

I haven't written anything on paper in a long time..well except for charting and even that is brief..breathing..no bleeding! This should be interesting. I am wondering though, because she mentions detail..do we need to write all the detail or just remember it all and jot a small note? What does everyone else think?


This would take sooo much longer than a month for me..In fact, I've been working on writing down past memories (both good and bad) for a couple of years.. Long before I found this path.. It's over 130 typed pages and over 67,000 words.. (and in ths writing process I've just gotten to the point I'd graduated high school...and I have 6 kids now ages 19 down to 5.)

In all fairness, I have been writing a book, and have always loved writing. It has been a very therapeutic process, but I personally see no need to write this all again ...

Hippywitch
September 9th, 2003, 06:48 AM
Right so the cloth is coming along ok. (Bit slow but I've only got a wee time each evening when the spawn go to sleep!) Kind of following Toad's outlines cos it looked very good and also something I'd be comfortable with using. I've changed the colour correspondances to suit my own as I couldn't go with yellow for earth at all!
So I'm using : East - Air - Yellow
South - Fire - Red
West - Water - Blue
North - Earth - Green
Sorted! :lol:

However I am having a few problems getting the book so could I have a few more details on the rest of month 1's exercises vis-a-vis consecration (which is pretty damn important guys!), robes, reading list etc.

Cheers!

Toad
September 9th, 2003, 11:58 AM
Right so the cloth is coming along ok. (Bit slow but I've only got a wee time each evening when the spawn go to sleep!) Kind of following Toad's outlines cos it looked very good and also something I'd be comfortable with using. I've changed the colour correspondances to suit my own as I couldn't go with yellow for earth at all!
So I'm using : East - Air - Yellow
South - Fire - Red
West - Water - Blue
North - Earth - Green


Excellent news HW! Make sure to get some pics up when you get it done. I want to see it!



However I am having a few problems getting the book so could I have a few more details on the rest of month 1's exercises vis-a-vis consecration (which is pretty damn important guys!), robes, reading list etc.




As for the book…I know I ordered mine off of Amazon. It was pretty painless.

That said…let me answer your questions directly:

Consecration

(I am going to paraphrase the authors suggestion here so I wont get my chops busted for copyright infringement – just FYI)

Once the cloth is completed…you need to clean the room where you are going to do the consecration. I vacuumed, scrubbed the windows, window ledges, base boards. I even took it a bit further and opened the window and cleared the room with dragons blood incense use parts of a house cleaning ritual I had previously used.

Once your room is cleaned…spread out your cloth. From this point on…we are never to enter this temple with our shoes on (though my son has violated this rule – but what the heck…it can’t all be perfect). We need a bowl of water and some salt (I used sea salt).

Place the bowl in the middle of the cloth with the salt beside it. Kneel beside these and clear your mind. Place you hands together in the prayer position…then fold you ring and pinke fingers together so you have your index and middle fingers pointed out with then side by side and you pinkie and ring finger interlocked (a lot easier to do than write/read).

Fill your thoughts with how water is one of mans greatest blessing and without it he cannot live. Take a deep breath…hold it for a second…and intone this prayer:

In the name of the creator/creatrix (feel free to change this for any god/dess name you prefer to use.) I bless and consecrate this element of water for my use.

Use you imagination to ‘see and feel’ a rush of heat and light come from the crown of your head through your body through the tips of the extended fingers into the water. Do the same for the salt…just substitute the word salt for water above where appropriate.

Once the salt is blessed…mix the salt into the water gently swirling it around until the salt melts. Rise to your feet holding the bowl of blessed elements.

Starting in the eastern quarter, dip your fingers into the salt water and flick it onto the floor. Saying:

Cleansed and blessed be this quarter of the East where the light is born.

Move to the South…sprinkle water as before and recite:

Cleansed and blessed be this quarter of the South where honor courage and love are revealed

Move to the West…sprinkle water as before and recite:

Cleansed and blessed be this quarter of the West where the inner voice of the spirit is heard

Move to the North…sprinkle water as before and recite:

Cleansed and blessed be this quarter of the North wherein dwells the spirit of the Earth.

Move to the center of the cloth where the altar will stand…sprinkle water and recite:

Cleansed and blessed be this place where the four quarters meet and where the light of this holy place will be lit.

No move to you ‘doorway’…sprinkle water and recite:

Cleansed and blessed be these places of entering and departing that nothing of evil shall enter and all that is good shall come forth from this place of peace and harmony.

That is the first cleaning…the actually consecration is yet to come.

Robes

DAN doesn’t really talk a whole lot about this robe. She does suggest that it should be a simple, no hood, solid color (white, black or brown) with a simple white cord. I personally made mine by using a t-shirt (a very large and comfy t-shirt) folded in half as the pattern. I folded my cloth in half…laid my shirt pattern on the fold and simple extended the length. The sleeves were approximated and again drawn on the fold and cut so I only had one seam. My robe is not fancy by any means…but it serves its purpose for now.

Reading List

DAN Official Month One Reading List

Building a Temple – Dolores Ashcroft Norwicki
Experimental Magic – JH Brennan
Magic, It’s ritual, power and purpose – WE Butler
The Magician, His Training and Work – WE Butler
The Mystical Qabalah – Dion Fortune
An introduction to the Mystical Qabalah – Alan Richardson
The Secret Temple – Robert Wang

I personally did not follow this list.

I personally substituted:

The Chicken Qabalah – Lon Milo Duquette and
A Garden of Pomgranites – Isreal Regardie for Richarsons book.

The Mystical Qabalah is HIGHLY recommended as is The Secret Temple (as Greenman put it at one point…never leave home without your Wang).

I substituted Liber Aba – Aleister Crolwey for The Brennan and Butler books though I may look at these again at some point.

I also found Draja Mickharic – Spiritual Cleansing and Magic Simplified to be extremely helpful

If you can think of anything else you need…I am here! =)

Hippywitch
September 10th, 2003, 07:57 AM
Cheers Toad.

I can't use on-line shops as I don't have a credit card! But I had a word with a friend who works in Borders and, though he looked at me very strangely, he's going to have a look and order it if it's not there!

Luckily I have a white silk robe I've been using for magic for some years so I'll continue to use that methinks! I also have the Dion Fortune book though I've never read further than the first few pages until now. I was eyeing it suspiciously just the other day thinking 'I'm going to need to know about this qabalah stuff aren't I?'. Guess that's a sign!

Don't know if I'll ever get piccies of the cloth posted as I'm a total technophobe... but thinking about it my friend in Borders is pretty computer au fait so if he isn't too disturbed by the sudden revelation of my life path I can always ask him to help. Here's hoping.

Thanks again Toad, appreciate it.

Hippywitch
September 27th, 2003, 05:49 AM
yee-ha! I finally have the book!

I should have finished month 1 last weekend but after getting the book I decided to take another week to meditate on a few things I'd missed.

I'll be burning my purge book tonight and good riddance to it too... that was alot harder than I anticipated... and I'd had therapy for the nasty bits previously to this... thankfully there was so much good stuff happening this month that my psychic energies weren't totally depleted...

See you all soon in the month 2 thread!

Toad
September 27th, 2003, 02:35 PM
yee-ha! I finally have the book!

I should have finished month 1 last weekend but after getting the book I decided to take another week to meditate on a few things I'd missed.

I'll be burning my purge book tonight and good riddance to it too... that was alot harder than I anticipated... and I'd had therapy for the nasty bits previously to this... thankfully there was so much good stuff happening this month that my psychic energies weren't totally depleted...

See you all soon in the month 2 thread!


Excellent!

bluglass
September 29th, 2003, 12:56 PM
I'm a Jew by birth but I feel I'm called by as I say "the great spirit" a term I use with my children. The path technically speaking is not straight and narrow as a Jew nor is the call specific to any god or goddess but more to be open minded, mindeful and basically I think just to get me back into more than one reality.

This forum has been recommended to me. On the second say of what is the New Year for me I decided to have a look at the lessons. I've read though most of the threads. Couple of things strike me. One is that in consecrating space or even finding a space you should/could be very Japanese or eastern in a Feng Shui sort of way. Cleanse all the space you live in or have available to you. One poster talked about built up energy that can be harmful but can also be beneficial. YOU, YOUR ENERGY signature IS built up in all things in all places you occupy. Keep what is essential and discard the rest. Second, if you are short on space or ability to use a space specifically I am reminded of an ancient Jewish practice of setting up a tent which is dedicated and consecrated to the scared. In the beginning when the Jews wandered they didn't have a temple but they did have the "Tent of Meeting" If you read the service for Yom Kippur there is a great deal of discussion about its construction, the materials, the decorations and its size. Much of it sounds like a great deal like what the author is describing in her book. Jews use a prayer shawl. When one prays often you use the shawl to wrap around you and create your own personal space of worship. Another use of the prayer shawl (which comes in many sizes) is as the ritual first home in the marriage ceremony. This is the chupah. The shawl is attached to four poles and held aloft by attendents or set in some kind of temporary framework that holds the poles safely in place. For those short on space could you not do the following: clear a room or several or your how house -- generally. Pick a space you would use repeatedly for your temple. Make an alter or place your special storage box in that room. Specifically clean and clear the space the alter or box are to alter according the the ritual prescribed by the author in the workbook. Clean and clear the room as best you can according to the ritual but instead of building a permanent temple use your alter cloth or a second specially crafted cloth in the temporary stuctural style as the chupah or tent of the meeting. When you would errect it you would necessarily go though ritual cleansing of yourself and the space prior to errecting the temporary structure. And you would be mindful, meditative and prayerful, in otherwords concentrating solely (get into the flow) of the process of errecting the temporary temple. You could use your alter cloth as the floor and a second special cloth as the roof. Heck you don't even need to do this you could simply use special poles dedicated to this specific task to define an interior space. This would allow you to turn your temple to any orientation that was appropriate to your needs.

Great artistic techniques and construction techniques out there. I'm an artist but not a figurative artist. One of my special projects is women's Jewish ritual garb i.e, prayer shawls. I started this project when women (who are not really disallowed from wearing prayer shawls but neither are they commanded to do so as men are) weren't wearing them. Now they do and so many artists design them to a woman's taste. But, this doesn't address the ritual -- magical aspect of prayer and what the designs on them should be magically. Remember that your images need not be representational. If you aren't that good at design they can simply be simple graphical elements. You could even just put blots of the appropriate colors in the appropirate positions even if the just look like blots not quite Jackson Pollack, more toward Monet. My understanding is that when you are doing the work you are imbuing your energy into the work. You get into the flow and are in tune with what you are doing and so in the end it doesn't really matter what it looks like so long as it resonates with you when you view it. And in the end even this is illusion since in time it will become a trigger that you hardly even acknowledge to get into your proper state of mind. The temple is inside of you. But as wisely pointed out there are beginning steps one takes in any learning in any endeavor which you must master before moving to the next plane. Such is the initial task of constructing a physical temple. Thus you make holy and magicall all your life and every place you are. My children recognize this. Sometimes we will be complace and they will say oh, look that bird is the great spirit or they will say a statue we are looking at is the great spirit or will point to a building and ask if that is that where great spirit lives. Should we not be doing the same?

hedgecub
November 16th, 2003, 06:59 PM
Is it necessary to get all the books in the Reading List at the end of each chapter? On page 43 it says that the required books for each month are listed in the previous month, and the only lists of books I can find are the Reading Lists.
If I need to get all the books listed each month, I may as well give up :( The finances just canna take it, cap'n!

And also, how many people have/have not gotten An Introduction to the Mystical Qabalah and Magic, Its Ritual, Power and Purpose? I checked on Amazon and the former is only available used, the latter takes over a month to ship :(

- little cub

Toad
November 17th, 2003, 09:49 AM
Is it necessary to get all the books in the Reading List at the end of each chapter? On page 43 it says that the required books for each month are listed in the previous month, and the only lists of books I can find are the Reading Lists.
If I need to get all the books listed each month, I may as well give up :( The finances just canna take it, cap'n!

And also, how many people have/have not gotten An Introduction to the Mystical Qabalah and Magic, Its Ritual, Power and Purpose? I checked on Amazon and the former is only available used, the latter takes over a month to ship :(

- little cub


Hedge -

I am into month 5 in this series...and I haved yet to read all of her recommended books. Though I have been reading other related titles. There is a lot of this type of material available online if you look for it. I think the important thing is to read, to learn. DAN's outline is a good one...but I would not hesitate to bend something here or there that doesnt suit ya.

Just my two cents...