Deer

[clef0628]

The number of deer in my town and the towns around me has become a problum for some people. So, now they are planing on getting sharpshooters to thin the number of them down. :(
I really do not like the idea of killing dear because people's flowers are being eaten, or people cannot stop for one crossing a road. I may also be bias because, I have a deer animal sprit. I just wish there was a way to make people like having wildlife around, they were here first. I feel sometimes it in the number of people that needs to be corrected not the number of animals. But, most people around here cannot see putting animals and humans on the same plane. They still think, they are above the animals, and therefor can do with them as they please. Anyhow, I was just woundering how Pagans who are close to nature would feel about this.

Steven

[loopy]

Too many deer--hunt 'em down.
Too many cats and dogs--put them to sleep.

Wonder how long before they decide too many humans, execute?

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by loopy
Too many deer--hunt 'em down.
Too many cats and dogs--put them to sleep.

Wonder how long before they decide too many humans, execute?

I don't think that day is too far off.:mad:


To believe what you see is to be deceived.
**********************************
Reject all illusions of social harmony.

[magicbabs]

Hey contact some local or state offices. Contact the National Wildlife Federation. Get pro-active. If you are worried about Bambi and the others ----get mad---get active.....

I hug trees - I raise Hell with the government - I kayak - I am active in 6 local water conservation projects.....You are not helpless in this matter. COntact the local newspaper - submit an article don't sign your name if you are scared....what ever it takes...

Steve ---- get busy!!!

My friend called me several months ago and said " I need you to pray for the trees". I said "what???". She said the very old very lovely oak trees were being cut down on her schools campus. I told her to park her car in front of the bull dozer and call the school. She said she was afraid of losing her job ---- PLAUGH!!!

I told her I would pray that she had more guts.....I told her how to respond to get action...She did not do anything.

The trees were cut down, there is a very large parking lot where the trees were....

[Rævyn Cigány]

Originally posted by Mystique


I don't think that day is too far off.:mad:


.

It's already happening....it's called AIDS...:(

BB
Rae )0(

[clef0628]

I work for the county park commission, and then last fall we were thinking about it, I let me feelings be known. And, I glad to say we still do not allow deer hunting on county parks. But, the local town are still shoting deer. Environmental, animal rights groups have been trying, in some towns to point of were the town had to bring in the cops. Large number of people still want less deer around here. I remenber on lady on the raido says that animals are like people and the raido people, other callers just tour her apart for even think animals were equal to people. :(

Steven

[random]

I agree that animals and humans (we are animals) should be thought of on the same plain and not superior.

Sure, the deer may make tastey jerky, but to just kill them off becuase of the death of your garden? They were hungry, they got something to eat. Its the same with humans.

I am glad the you, steven, did something. I wish I could help. But then again, I am not taken seriously.

christy

[Emerald Sky]

This is sad. I live in the country. My property was a deer run several years ago. Consequently, we still have families of deer in our yard every day. It's beautiful.

I really don't know what to think about the "abundance" of deer. I know that there is way, way, way too much development pushing them out of their natural habitat. Perhaps there isn't an abundance as the media would like us to believe. Perhaps there are just the same old number of deer as always, only now they have no place to go. Kind of reminds me of the mountain lions coming down into the suburbs... :mad:

Anyway, I do know that it is very sad and very disturbing when I pass no less than five dead deer on the freeway each day on the way to work because they just have no room to move. :(

[Earth Walker]

What some people can't/won't understand is that we are
pushing back wildlife habitat, hence their food supply, thus
the deer (and other animals) have no choice for "raiding"
gardens, etc.


To believe what you see is to be deceived.
**********************************
Reject all illusions of social harmony.

[MammaStar]

We too, have a lot of Deer. I live at the base of a mountain, and a deer track runs through the back of our small piece of property. It was pretty dry here a few weeks ago. Some deer came into our yard and decided to take a drink from our little pool in the back yard. They let a lot of the water out. So instead of getting mad or worried about our garden. We did somethings to keep them out of our yard, and help Bambi and his family.

First, we went out to the local hardware store and got a water trough. We filled it with water and put it out back in the woods so that the deer can find it when they need to.

Then, I ran a line of rope along my back fence and attached some old & damaged CD's to it. The reflective light scares them and this helps to keep them out of our yard.

I understand why people get so upset about a lot of deer. I come from a family of deer hunters. Every season, my Dad, uncles & cousins would go up to my Grandma's house and go hunting. Funny, how they never brought anything home. I think mainly, people are afraid of the "diseases" they can carry. For example, Lyme's Diseas. Which I suffer from. I'm lucky because they had caught it in time, I only suffer from minor complications. However, a family friend cannot walk from it. So I see both point's of view.

Of course, one of the bestsolutions would be to stop bulldozing every single stand of trees to build more malls. But that's probably too logical for the money grubbing gov't. Just my opinon.

[magicbabs]

Exactly - the trees are being torn down. For strip malls and parking.

That was excellent. I will have my friends try that method. I LOVE the broken CD idea....

EXCELLENT!!!!!

Developers don't understand that trees/forest are important. I just went to a conference last week regarding "Sprawl" development. ALso went to a recycling conference 3 weeks ago. There are alternatives to killing the deer, the water shed problems and many other issues.

When the Olympics came to Atlanta in 1996 - they asked all of us to stay out of town or ride the MARTA train system. The air pollution was GONE!!! NADA - Nothing - clean air - in the middle of June!!!

There is a river that runs through the metro area of Atlanta. 15 years ago the water was beautiful. 5 years ago - we were told to stay out of the water. Today the river still stinks but we are working to clean it up.

We have lots of options. We do make a difference.

I ask not to be blown off as another "tree Hugger". I am an activist. I have seen things change. I KNOW it can happen....

Hey man - we are Pagans - we are the ones worshiping nature. If we cannot help change things - the big money bosses are not going to care.

I have grown up in the South - LOTS of deer hunters. Lucky that most of them can't shoot worth a damn. They usually just hit them with their Ford pick up's.

Babs

[Yvonne Belisle]

My opinion on it is simple you don't kill what you won't eat. Be that deer cat dog rabbit man what ever. If your life isn't at risk then it's shouldn't be my exception to this is bugs some bugs I just can't deal with but I only kill them if they are in my house or on me or mine.

[mol]

It was...long ago...natural for humankind to hunt and kill for food. Nowadays we have other means and different ways of doing things. It seems that the days of hunting would stop, but, alas, now it is a sport...which taints the pure form of the hunt.

It use to be called. Survival.

[Red Dragon]

As a former park ranger as well as having a degree in wildlife forestry, I have to offer an educated pro viewpoint. :D

The fact is that our civilization and expansion and the almost complete removal of all natural predators has sadly caused a massive inbalance in some animals, a prime example being the common deer. Today they are more than a mere nuisance, but in fact are a real problem as there is no effective means of balancing the populations which must unaturally compete for forage.

The loss of predators also removes the process of natural selection which allows for improvement and adaptation of a species by allowing the old, sick and weak to survive where in a natural environment these would be culled by predators causing an improvement in the gene pool as only the healthiest and strongest survive.

When these same old, weak, and sick animals compete for already depleted foraging, it causes an unatural overpopulation which causes otherwise prime examples of the species to starve and die out.

The only solution would be to return the wild areas to the wild and remove all signs of civilization which simply can't be done. Thus we rely on the sad but more practical method of management by selective culling of the herds. :uzi:

This has to be done to reduce the numbers, and ensure the survival of the species. I too love all wildlife and Bambi, but it is one of those unfortunate things that needs to be done due to former mismanagement. Happily there are some recent solutions, such as the introduction of Canadian wolves in Yellowstone and Montana, but even this has met with opposition from ranchers who erroniously claim that the predators would cause harm to their animals. It is a fact that predators rarely take healthy animals, and as for the ranchers, they are compensated for each loss anyway. :p

Ranger "Red"

[Semele]

Red,
Thank you for that post. It was very informative. While it is still sad to think of the loss, it does make it easier to understand the necessity. I guess this is another example of the darkness we all need to learn to embrace. With each death brings a new beginning.

[bluecat]

I was not going to post, but now I will.

We have devoured their natural habitat in many places and removed predators. Modern civilization has created a problem and now has a sad responsibility. My concern is what is being done with the dead deer, it would be a deep wound to see waste occur. No matter what is done, so long as it is not wasted, that would just add insult to injury.

I have seen starvation before, when I was stationed at White Sands Missile Range. Many wild horses had to be destroyed because of this. Some groups thought they knew the "truth" about it and cried foul, but the real truth was even uglier. That is all I will say in that matter.

As for the Wolves, we also have this issue in New Mexico with the release of Mexican Wolves. Ranchers, who call themselves stewards of the land, are killing them, because they claim they are taking cattle. The wolves take a few and if it can be shown that a wolf took it, compensation is made. There is a lot of hooey going on that they are afraid the wolves will come after people. They are afraid of people and as long as they have the occasional cow, deer, or other game there will be no problem. We need the wolves and other predators to help keep the balance.

I have hunted before and in my hunting I have come across animals that were taken by nature. Believe me, folks, the hunter's gun is much more merciful than nature.

This was a hard post to make folks because people have created a problem and now have to take harsh corrective measures. It's not as easy as just transplanting these animals. I used to think that until I understood more. Nature will eventually make a correction and people will fight that too, if they can. There was one great correction made about 67,000,000 years ago, I certainly hope nature does not feel necessary to repeat this.

BLUE

[Red Dragon]

I too have seen the slow agonizing deaths of animals in these cases, and no matter how cute they look, they don't look so cute when thay die of this slow death.

I felt I had to give an opposing veiwpoint from an educated versus emotional standpoint, as it's too easy to yell and scream to do something from your easy chair without understanding the issues. To stop this method of control without considering the facts would cause needless suffering and a far worse fate than a well aimed bullet from a professional hunter. These people are true profesionals, and not your 'bubba' beer swilling idiots.

Rest assured the animals taken from these culls are used with respect and for as varied uses some examples are aclimatizing orphan predators and raptors to the taste of wild meat, and in some areas to feed the poor who otherwise wouldn't be able to provide their families with fresh meat. Other parts such as antlers skeletons and pelts are used for education and various conservation related uses.

They do not die in vain.

I always like to remember the old adage when looking at these highly emotional issues,

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Red Dragon
As a former park ranger as well as having a degree in wildlife forestry, I have to offer an educated pro viewpoint. :D

The fact is that our civilization and expansion and the almost complete removal of all natural predators has sadly caused a massive inbalance in some animals, a prime example being the common deer. Today they are more than a mere nuisance, but in fact are a real problem as there is no effective means of balancing the populations which must unaturally compete for forage.

The loss of predators also removes the process of natural selection which allows for improvement and adaptation of a species by allowing the old, sick and weak to survive where in a natural environment these would be culled by predators causing an improvement in the gene pool as only the healthiest and strongest survive.

When these same old, weak, and sick animals compete for already depleted foraging, it causes an unatural overpopulation which causes otherwise prime examples of the species to starve and die out.

The only solution would be to return the wild areas to the wild and remove all signs of civilization which simply can't be done. Thus we rely on the sad but more practical method of management by selective culling of the herds. :uzi:

This has to be done to reduce the numbers, and ensure the survival of the species. I too love all wildlife and Bambi, but it is one of those unfortunate things that needs to be done due to former mismanagement. Happily there are some recent solutions, such as the introduction of Canadian wolves in Yellowstone and Montana, but even this has met with opposition from ranchers who erroniously claim that the predators would cause harm to their animals. It is a fact that predators rarely take healthy animals, and as for the ranchers, they are compensated for each loss anyway. :p

Ranger "Red"

Thank you. I come from Michigan, where extensive deer herds are a real problem. It isn't even the removal of their habitat that causes so much problem, it's the removal of their predators and in fact suburban gardens provide an even bigger source of food than they might have otherwise, not to mention winter feedings during heavy snows in the name of compassion. At the turn of the century they *were* being hunted to near extinction and they were protected. They no longer need to be protected! It isn't a matter of *convenience* for humans either--Readers Digest had an article recently that mentioned a study the insurance industry had commissioned in Wisconsin. There hitting a deer with a car is the leading accident that citizens of that state encounter, even ahead of household accidents. Studies in Michigan (I think near Isle Royal) indicate that large herds of deer impact the environment negatively, as far as diversity goes. There are efforts to develop birth control for the deer, but there are practical problems with delivering the doses every year--they ARE being worked on, but it goes slowly.

Life and death are flip sides of the same coin, there is nothing unatural about it. Humans have interfered with the deer, and now both are suffering for it.

Regards,

Maggie