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Earth Walker
June 9th, 2001, 03:30 PM
For those of you who are not aware of what occurred this past
Monday (6/4/01).
Bush was in Florida, gave a speech at the Everglades and then that evening gave a speech at Legends Field in Tampa.
Tickets were available to the public. Quite a few protesters chose to purchase the tickets and attend the event rather than being relegated to the Protest Zone several blocks away.
The harassment of the protesters and their subsequent arrest
has caused quite a stir. These protesters were not 'crashing
the event', they bought tickets being sold to the public.
Bush mouthpieces were calling it a PRIVATE EVENT and therefore
the police were within their duty to arrest these people.
The question is; if it was a PRIVATE EVENT, why were tickets
sold to the PUBLIC, and why was part of this PRIVATE EVENT
paid for by taxpayers?
The charges are VIOLATION OF FREE SPEECH, and VIOLATION
OF THE RIGHT TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT.
This little incident has started to grow and could be a big blow
to Shrubby.


To believe what you see is to be deceived.
**********************************
Reject all illusions of social harmony.

clef0628
June 9th, 2001, 03:43 PM
If you bought a ticket you shold be let in! That simple. And I also think that the protest area should be closer!! I want Bush to hear me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steven

I didn't vote for him, and no he is not going green either.

Earth Walker
June 9th, 2001, 05:51 PM
Article on the Tampa arrests: by Bev Conover

The Tampa Three are the latest example of our vanishing rights.

June 7, 2001 -- Whether it stems from the proverbial "hope
springs eternal" or the fact that most Americans still get their
"news" from corporate-controlled television, people have yet to
grasp the horror that they are being systemically stripped of
their fundamental rights.

The latest case in point happened Monday in Tampa, Florida,
where G.W. Bush was scheduled to give a pep talk to
supporters in Legend Stadium. Non-Bush supporters weren't
welcome, as two grandmothers and a gentleman with a
physical impairment, found out when they were arrested, hand-
cuffed and roughly hustled out of the stadium.
One of the grandmothers, Jan Lentz of New Port Richey said a
female police officer used her as a battering ram, as she shoved her through the crowd, knocking over 81-year-old Walter
Sorenson, also of New Port Richey and a member of their group.
He suffered a cut to the head.

Their crime? They dared to display anti-Bush signs. Only pro-Bush
signs were allowed. Anti-Bush demonstrators were relegated
to a cordoned off area known as the "First Amendment Zone,"
situated a half-mile from the stadium.
The compassionless conservative who now occupies the White
House, thanks to the treasonous decision of five Extreme
Court justices, required attendees at his latest love-in to have
tickets for the event. Ironically, Ms. Lentz, Sorenson, Sonja
Haught, aka Grandma Suni, 59, of Clearwater and Mauricio Rosas,
37, of Tampa had tickets. Yet, all were charged with trespass.
Ms. Haught also was charged with disorderly conduct, because
she dared ask the female officer who had shoved Ms. Lentz into
Sorenson, knocking him to the ground, why she did that.
According to Ms. Lentz, the officer responded, "Assault on a
policeman!" (Read both women's accounts in their own words.)

According to the St. Petersburg Times, Tampa police claimed they
were only following Secret Service instructions. Since when does
the Secret Service have the power to deprive people of their
First Amendment rights to free speech and peaceable assembly?
Tampa police spokeswoman Katie Hughes told the Times, "They
(the Secret Service) said that you can't be within eyeshot of the
president with those signs because it's a security issue," Hughes
said. "Most of this is bigger than us...We work within their
parameters."

Signs are a security issue or just anti-Bush signs, since all reports
say the stadium was filled with pro-Bush signs. Moreover, the
four from Mad Grandmothers and Others of the Oral Majority
carried 8-1/2" x 11" paper signs that weren't fastened to
anything. What they were going to do, fold them into paper
airplanes and launch them Kamikaze-style to take out Bush?


To believe what you see is to be deceived.
**********************************
Reject all illusions of social harmony.

Earth Walker
June 9th, 2001, 08:18 PM
This stripping of our rights didn't just start with the Bush II
Regime. People have been conned, with the help of the propaganda issued by the media and Extreme Court rulings,
into giving up a "little" of their rights here and there in exchange
for a "little" security, despite the admonition of Benjamin
Franklin, who said, "They that can give up essential liberty to
obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
But the Bush II regime has taken the stripping to new heights,
beginning with the theft of the 2000 presidential election, the
sending of GOP-paid operatives to Florida to thwart the hand
recounting of ballots, and the backing of the traitorous five on
the Extreme Court--Chief Justice William Rehnquist, Justices
Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Anthony Kennedy and Sandra
Day O'Connor--who trashed the right of states to conduct
elections and, worse, decided the people's votes don't matter,
but used the equal protection clause to decide that the protecting
and installing of GW Bush in the White House outweighed the consent of the governed. Gone is the right to a fair and honest
election. Gone is the right to have your vote counted.

Those aren't the only rights that have been taken away from you.
Your Fourth Amendment rights have been chipped away. You
are no longer secure in your "persons, houses, papers and
effects," against unreasonable searches and seizures. Police have
been given such broad discretionary powers that the courts have
upheld that you have no reasonable expectation of not being arrested without probable cause. Just ask the Texas mother who
was hauled off to jail and booked for not wearing a seatbelt.
Your rights to free speech and assembly have been so limited that they have become next to worthless. Just ask the protesters
who turned up in Seattle, Washington, Phildelphia, Los Angeles,
and now Tampa. But where is the public's outrage? Of course,
in the absence of the black clad goons, the corporate media
labels "anarchists" and whom we suspect are paid political operatives, there is little coverage of what peaceful protesters suffer at the hands of the police, except for a talking head saying,
"We don't know what they are protesting about."

No, the corporate media don't know what they are protesting about, because they don't want to know. If they did, it's simple
enough to find out. Just ask them.
The people's national capitol has been turned into a fortress.
All the better to control the nasty protesters. George II won't
have to suffer the chanting of demonstrators in Lafayette Park
the way Richard Nixon did. Even Nixon in his darkest moments
didn't try to silence his detractors by locking down Washington
and using the Secret Service to keep them away from every place he went, under the guise of "security issue."

Better yet, George II may take his next clue from the World Bank and hold his love fests in cyberspace. That assuredly would make
gone with the pesky detractors, their shouting and their signs.

None of this bothers the dear corporate media. Why should it?
It's less work for them. Besides, they don't understand what we are so upset about. Didn't they go through the ballots for us and
stand on their heads to tell us that GW won? Besides, people
don't care anymore, right? So, get over it.

Hey, you didn't see the Tampa Three on the national news Monday night, did you? But, the way things are going, you may soon hear the rumbling of trucks coming for you.

Where is the ACLU when you need it?

------------------------------------------------
A Times Editorial
Foul call at Legends

Because the Bush rally was open to the public, the protestors should have had their rights protected by Tampa police instead of
being arrested.

St. Petersburg Times. June 8, 2001

President Bush's rally at Tampa's Legends Field on Monday was
more than just another tightly scripted political event [/I} to
promote his tax-cut plan. It also turned into a cowardly exercise
in suppressing legitimate protest.
[I] The event was advertised as being open to the public, but only
Bush boosters were welcome. No one who publicly opposed the
president's tax cuts, his environmentally risky energy policy or
his national missile defense shield was allowed to enter the
stadium, even if they were holding a ticket.

Those presidential critics who were somehow able to slide past
security were jostled and denounced by the crowd for holding signs that read "Florida Votergate" and June is Gay Pride Month."
The resulting disturbance led to the arrests of the women and men who refused to give up their signs.

A Secret Service spokesman, who insisted that his agency wasn't
involved in removing any of the protesters, said rally organizers
were within their rights to exclude whomever they wanted
because the function was private. If this had been a truly private
event, the agent would have been correct. Constitutionally,
sponsors of a private event can screen the audience as long as
they don't discriminate against a protected group.

However, White House spokesperson Jeanie Mano said "this was
a governmental, presidential event." White House staff participated in organizing the rally, along with local supporters
and the hosts of Legends Field, a publicly financed stadium.
Public employees helped pull together a rally at which the public
at large was invited to hear the president. Although Mano also
said the event was called "private" by the Secret Service, it had a
distinctly public character. It was partly paid for with tax dollars
and should have been an event at which all points of view
regarding the president's agenda were welcome.

A "First Amendment Zone" set up by organizers and situated one-third of a mile away from the stadium entrance was not even close to acceptable. All of the United States is a First Amendment
zone.

The Tampa Police Department shares blame for this outrage.
Spokeswoman Katie Hughes couldn't even get her story straight.
Initially, she said the police were acting on instructions from the
Secret Service that signs critical of the president were a security
risk. But the Secret Service denied issuing such a policy.
Gregory Mertz, the special agent in charge of the Secret Service office in Tampa, told St. Petersburg Times staff writer Christopher
Goffard that holding up a sign regardless of its content is an
individual right.
Hughes then backtracked, saying the police department's actions
against protesters were on instructions from Legends Field
security.

Since when do on-duty Tampa police blindly take orders from
private security guards? At what point in their training were
Tampa police told to ignore the Constitution on some rent-a-cop's
say-so?

The event was an all-around bad show -- a contrived, staged
performance at which only one side of the story was allowed to
be heard and heavy-handed police tactics were used to silence dissenters.
The real question is; what exactly were President Bush and his
team so afraid of?


To believe what you see is to be deceived.
**********************************
Reject all illusions of social harmony.

sylphanie
June 9th, 2001, 09:21 PM
To a large extent, the political corruption in the US isn't due just to cover-ups. The population is rather sedated. After the WTO protests in Seattle and other cities, the excessive tactics and weapons utilized by the police became very well known. Yet, there was little backfire for their actions and rather than the populace being outraged at the actions of the police, people spoke about the ridiculous 'left-wingers' that were causing the 'disturbance.'

Frankly, I would rather have misogynistic, racist, anti-environmentalists protest loudly and freely than have police show up armed in riot gear, expecting trouble, at every rally. Does it not occur to them that the presence of police will create more tension and increase the likelihood of an actual riot?

I shouldn't have to know how to deal with tear gas just because I'm protesting the government.

Sylph

Kaylara
June 10th, 2001, 01:16 AM
Well, think about it... If anything should have caused massive protests, etc.. it was the 2000 election. In any other country, it would have started a civil war, or at least a little bit of public outrage... But in the US, nothing... People just saying, "oh, just say Bush win so that we don't have to hear about it anymore."
It is sad how complacent the American people have become... While they slowly whittle away our freedoms, and tell us it's for our own good, no one seems to care. Just turn on the boob-tube and everything will be okay... Who cares about real life, or our freedoms... People here don't care what happens because the feel disconnected from it, it's not happening to them so who cares?

It's sick... I really wish that people weren't this ready to lie down and take it... I know that I will never be like this, I am too friggin cynical, and think that the only way to make things better is a huge over haul of the government. (Not to mention great social change, which I feel lies in the young of today.)

Kaylara

eaglewolf
June 10th, 2001, 01:19 AM
Go Youth!!

~ew

widukind
June 10th, 2001, 05:52 AM
I think it's crazy a president can win the elections and not even have the most votes. The US elections have surely been rigged.

An what's up with the US government shoving it all on Commies everytime something goes wrong? Not all commies are stalinists, and nor are they all maoists. It totally undermines the freedom of individuals. I personally think it's crazy if you emigrate to the US you have to sign a statemetn saying you never were part of a communist party. What logic is there behing such regulations?

It's all part of the sad transformation of western society in a police state-like regime, with only rightist parties in charge. The world could sure use a little communism, which brings me to another point.

How come the US still allow 'white power' organisations like the KKK to retain existence? That's crazy. Probably because they are all 'decent crhistians'.

One last quote:

"Bush is an idiot. He'll start a third world war."
- Yours Truly

Brightest Blessings!

Widukind

sylphanie
June 10th, 2001, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by widukind

An what's up with the US government shoving it all on Commies everytime something goes wrong? Not all commies are stalinists, and nor are they all maoists. It totally undermines the freedom of individuals. I personally think it's crazy if you emigrate to the US you have to sign a statemetn saying you never were part of a communist party. What logic is there behing such regulations?


Well, the animosity between "Communist" countries and "Democratic" countries kind of makes sense if you squint hard enough. Communism, in its ideal, is a dictatorial government. What most people don't see, I think, is that people who favor communism don't necessarily believe that to be a bad thing. People can be pretty stupid, especially in groups, and the Party was kind of designed to wisely rule once the proletariat overthrew the feudal state. That makes sense - they had just come from a very decentralized government and the seemingly best way to solve the problem was to centralize.

Democracy is a bit different. In it's ideal, the 'wisdom comes from the masses' so-to-speak. The majority of people will be right the majority of the time. So, taken in that perspective, democracy makes sense.

In reality, both kind of worked in practice. The Soviet government didn't fail because of inherent flaws in the system, but mostly because they stressed industry over agriculture and that only permitted their industry to expand to a certain extent. In China (poor Mao, he always gets picked on) - they DID put more investment into agriculture but had been completely unaware of their history. Rather than coming out of two thousand years of feudalism they had actually been coming out of many hundreds of years of what was basically industry-less capitalism! So, they had some trouble reconciling their history with their present state.

As for democracy, I think there's no need to re-iterate it's faults.

At any rate.... ^_^ The United States is a very hegemonic state. (*gobble, gobble*) After WW2, most of Europe was in no state to be doing anything. Most of Africa was still reeling (and is still reeling) from being turned into colonies. There was no real competition in South America, the Middle East was re-orienting itself, and East Asia...I think its safe enough to say that almost all the countries in East Asia were having serious problems.

The US found itself an economic and industrial super-power, with the USSR as its only potential competition. In an effort to increase their power and sway over the government (something the federal government has really ALWAYS been trying to do, darn those federalists), the US deployed the propaganda machine. Hey, it'd been working well so far. So the cultural and economic problems that the US would inevitably have were shuffled under the rug of the Cold War. When it finally did happen in the US's counter-cultural movements of the 1960s/1970s, it seemed to come virtually out of no-where to many. Again, it was easy to link the movements to Communism, despite how many differences there were.

Phew...um.... Forgive my long-windedness. ~_~

Sylph

orgtigger
May 25th, 2005, 03:42 AM
:bumpsmili
I was digging around and found this.
Do the arguements sound at all familiar?
This is from 2001

Darkdale
May 25th, 2005, 08:17 AM
:bumpsmili
I was digging around and found this.
Do the arguements sound at all familiar?
This is from 2001

lol Who cares? However, threads like this do entertain.