can this really happen in a circle? or is he lying? [long but please help]

[Saiya]

My friend Jon was practicing Wicca for 3 years, ending in '96, he told me today that he won't go back to it because of an experience he had where his 'coven' was attacked. I asked him what he was doing at the time, and he said, "attacking another entity, and he got angry." to which I replied, "-WHY- were you attacking him.......?" "He was attacking one of my friends and other spells werent working so i had to to protect my friend I was stronger than my friend." So I said, "um, rule #1of wicca- And Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will.... I doubt you were being attacked unless you attacked him first." he said that it was another coven's 'higher' (an entity they had 'employed' apparently...) attacking them because they had upset him somehow. I asked him if they had cast a circle, and he said yes...I'm not sure if he's telling the truth...or what.. Can you be attacked by another person with magick when you're inside your circle????

~edited to add~ now he tells me the 'higher' was mad because of a breach of contract...here's what he said: "we had a contract with an entity and another groyup had a contract weiththe same entity and wel we tried to channel the entity and well at the same time 2 of our group members tried to steal some of the magik"....I don't understand at all...

[Hope]

sounds like to much buffy to me

love
hope

[WillowSageheart]

A circle is put in place to allow you to center and help you focus, but mainly for protection. I personally think this story doesn't hold much water for so many reasons. First, I have never heard of a wiccan coven "attacking" an entity... nor have I ever heard anything about contracts with entities. It just doesn't work that way.

Am more than a little confused. What was the entity supposed to be? A person, a ghost, a diety... what? No matter what it was supposed to be, IMO, this story teller is feeding you a line of crap. Sounds more like a gang than a coven to me, and if it was a coven it really doesn't sound like a wiccan coven... or any other that I have ever heard of.

[Flar's Freyja]

While I believe in negative energy, I don't give much credence to entities, so I'd have to agree that it's a bunch of ca-ca.

[Twig]

My friend Jon was practicing Wicca for 3 years, ending in '96, he told me today that he won't go back to it because of an experience he had where his 'coven' was attacked. I asked him what he was doing at the time, and he said, "attacking another entity, and he got angry." to which I replied, "-WHY- were you attacking him.......?" "He was attacking one of my friends and other spells werent working so i had to to protect my friend I was stronger than my friend." So I said, "um, rule #1of wicca- And Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will.... I doubt you were being attacked unless you attacked him first." he said that it was another coven's 'higher' (an entity they had 'employed' apparently...) attacking them because they had upset him somehow. I asked him if they had cast a circle, and he said yes...I'm not sure if he's telling the truth...or what.. Can you be attacked by another person with magick when you're inside your circle????

~edited to add~ now he tells me the 'higher' was mad because of a breach of contract...here's what he said: "we had a contract with an entity and another groyup had a contract weiththe same entity and wel we tried to channel the entity and well at the same time 2 of our group members tried to steal some of the magik"....I don't understand at all...

Weeeell. I would ask these questions.
1. What book was he going from?
2. What was the entities name?

Personally I seriously doubt the story. But given your age (I assume he's a teen also) it could..remotely be. I say this because I cast a love spell for my sisters friend at 16 and it worked too well. He ended up stalking her and they had to move out of state.

Again, I seriously doubt it but if he answers those questions, get back to me with it. Now my curiosty is roused.

peace,
Twig

[sianand_flidais]

well I have heard similar stories, but the covens in question weren't necessarily wiccan, and it wasn't so much attacking an entity as messing with things they didn't understand ie trying to summon somekind of spirit with no clear idea of what they were trying to summon and no real reason for doing so. Don't know if I live in a bad area or what, but there have been a few problems around here between a couple of different covens. One of the reasons I'm solitary. Also, I don't think your friend is necessarily lying to you, but it seems more likely that something weird happened and everybody paniced and a lot of it was too much imagination and paranoia. Been in a similar situation myself, when a whole group of us became convinced we were being attacked by demons, but later when we'd all calmed down and talked it through we realised we were all just going nuts because there was a fair bit of negative energy flying around due to stress within the group. Bad things can happen inside a circle, but the stronger your belief in it's protective powers, the stronger it will be. Most of the stories I hear, things only went wrong when people started questioning how safe they actually were inside their circles.

[Phoenix Blue]

I agree with Hope - sounds like a drama play. That isn't to say it couldn't possibly happen, but I'm skeptical.

[Old Witch]

I'm really doubtful.........

[Ben Trismegistus]

Sounds like crapola to me. A bunch of kids who have been watching "The Craft" and "Blair Witch" too many times.

I've never heard the concept of a "higher" -- some sort of slave demon employed to do the coven's work? Sounds too Hollywood to me. And a contract, huh? Did they sign it in blood? ;)

[Aequitas]

I'm really doubtful.........
Word.


I've never heard the concept of a "higher" -- some sort of slave demon employed to do the coven's work?
Really? Servitors? Goetic invocation?

[Gareth]

(imo) Call LEO.

[Ben Trismegistus]

(imo) Call LEO.

Who?

[Gareth]

Who?

Reference to the tv show "Charmed"

[Pesha]

Hmm well how much TV does he watch. Coven does not automatically mean Wiccan. This sounds very suspect to me, very suspect. Take this with a grain of salt. I have never known a wiccan coven to engage in something like this.

BB
D'S...also known as...

[WandererInGray]

I'm sure they could...in theory.

However, it sounds too much like the hysterics of "a witch! A witch! She's moved to our village and my cow died!"
:rolleyes:

But then again...it's always hard to say. *shrugs* Something could have happened.

[Ben Trismegistus]

But then again...it's always hard to say. *shrugs* Something could have happened.

Sure it could have. But my suspicious is that these were kids who were easily influenced - someone got it into his head that they were being attacked by some demonic entity, and through the power of suggestion they all believed it and it somehow *became* so, at least within their perception.

[Gareth]

(imo) Call LEO.

I would like to apologize for this remark.
It's not fair of me to judge like that, I don't know the whole story of what is going on.
Just because I think it's not true doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I'm sorry.

[Danustouch]

I would say it is Crappolla too. :)

However, I WOULD say that there is still a lesson in this, besides the one of "Stop watching so much TV". Heh.

I do believe that things such as spiritual warfare can occur, because I believe you can invoke, and evoke spirits in your circle, and if YOU can, then others can too, and basically, I believe ANYTHING can happen.

My friend who is an HPS of a traditional wiccan group in CT and I were having an interesting discussion the other day. She is friends with someone who practices one of the African traditions of Paganism (I can't remember the name right now). And they do believe that deities, and other spirits/entities can possess a person. She said that if this can happen in other religious paths, why do we think it is impossible that it could happen in Wicca. Or that one could summon a destructive force into their circle? And in a way, I agree with her. While I've never met anyone who has been possessed by a demonic force, or a destructive entity, or whatever, and while I PERSONALLY have not had contact with anyone who has really summond something...undesireable in their rituals, I do believe it can probably happen.

I think it could happen most likely, when people start dabbling in things that they don't understand. I've met all too many people who start invoking or evoking a deity or spirit into their circle whom they know nothing about. For instance, MOST seasoned Witches/Wiccans/Pagans would know better than to invoke Kali, or Morrigan into a circle, without knowing much about her. They would also be careful as to exactly what they said to these deities, what they ASKED of these deities.

If someone starts messing around with Magick, and with Deities/Spirits/Entities without knowing how to properly conduct a ritual, set up protection, cleanse a circle, invoke/evoke, cleanse, banish, etc. Without knowing much about the spirits they are working with, without forming a relationship with the deities they are working with...well..imo...bad things COULD happen. I don't know about you, but, I'm not about to jump out of a plane with a parachute on my back, unless I know how to WORK that parachute.

So..In summary, yeah..I think bad things can happen. Whether they can happen in the way that this guy described, or whether it happened in this case at all...well..I doubt it. I think like everyone else has pretty much said, this is a case of a few teenagers who really watch too much television, and get a thrill out of creating dramatic fantasies for themselves and their friends. Frankly, I hope they WERENT actually even trying to practice magick in any way shape or form, because the impression that I get is that they would be the type to rush into it without studying it at all.

[WandererInGray]

Sure it could have. But my suspicious is that these were kids who were easily influenced - someone got it into his head that they were being attacked by some demonic entity, and through the power of suggestion they all believed it and it somehow *became* so, at least within their perception.
*smiles* I totally agree with you, Ben.

It's just that there are plenty of things in this world we neither know about or understand. *shrugs* It is too much of a stretch for me to believe that someone actually had an "entity" in their "employ" though.

[Rain Gnosis]

Let me put it this way - it could happen, but there's no reason it would and it's really unlikely.

People who have the strength to call such things usually have the wisdom not to. People who don't have the wisdom don't have the ability.

It's like curses - they are very possible, absolutely. But anyone who can pull off the good focused ones will almost never do so, and if they do only for good reason. Anyone who would throw that willy nilly doesn't have the ability.

IMHO.

[Semele]

My response is what difference does it make? If this person thinks it happened then fine let them deal with it the way they know how. If they are just telling stories to make life more interesting, don't add to the drama by even being interested. Either way it wont affect your life as I can see.

[Arylon]

I think it sounds like hogwash, myself.... :rolleyes:
But, I have heard many stories of this type, so maybe it DOES happen. But I am extremely skeptical.

[Saiya]

Thanx guys, I figured he was probably lying, but then again, I've only been practicing for about a year and a half, so I know I don't know everything, and I wasn't sure. I'll get back to him on this, maybe I'll show him this thread, and see what he says.
~*Saiya

[Xander67]

sounds like to much buffy to me

love
hope


or too much charmed, Saiya, I think your friend is pulling your leg.

edited to add,
I totally agree with willow sageheart, that is just what Ray Cooper says a circle is for in his book Practical Magic,

[Xander67]

(imo) Call LEO.

:lol:









*wips soda off my monitor* :sadeyes:

[Saiya]

I talked to him, and he still insists that it happened... oh well, his loss if he doesn't like wicca ^_^

[sianand_flidais]

I talked to him, and he still insists that it happened... oh well, his loss if he doesn't like wicca ^_^

Maybe wicca just isn't the right path for him. If he insists that it happened, then he probably believes it did, and who can say for sure? Still think it was more likely panic and paranoia myself... Still, that's better than thinking he lied to you.

*hugs*
sianand

[Saiya]

Maybe wicca just isn't the right path for him. If he insists that it happened, then he probably believes it did, and who can say for sure? Still think it was more likely panic and paranoia myself... Still, that's better than thinking he lied to you.

*hugs*
sianand


I'm really not sure, I'm just going to leave it as is, and not talk to him about it anymore unless he brings it up. I think you're right about it being paranoia...but maybe he's just lying...I don't think I'll ever know.