21 Lessons of Merlyn

[Astraea]

I posted this in another forum but I just noticed this Druid one so maybe it's better suited here:

I've been reading tons of different information about the ancient Druids and Celts for several years and I have understood that the 21 Lessons of Merlyn is accepted basically as a work of fiction and does not portray the Druids in a historically accurate way. I just wondered if anyone knows of a good, honest review of this book- one that is by a person with some decent Druidic knowledge- that I could direct a friend to. I wanted him to see that I'm not the only person with these opinions of Monroe's book.
Thanks to anyone who can help.

Astraea

[Twig]

What is your opinion of "The 21 Lessons of Merlyn" and its' companion book "The Lost Books of Merlyn" by Douglas Monroe? We have a question of validity here so I'll hold off here until others have had their say.

Peace,
Twig

[Astraea]

Twig,
I just wanted to say that I read your reply to my post in the History forum- thank you so much for your input. I agree with you completely, and have to say that Merlyn was my first book on Druidry as well. This buddy of mine swears by Monroe's book, the Barddas, and the Book of Pferyllt, and it just aggravates me. I was hoping to find someone, like you, with some excellent 'Druidic knowledge'- thinking maybe if I showed him your input, he would then be interested in doing some research of his own. Maybe this would make him mad enough to go read up and try to prove me wrong!
I'm not a Druid myself, but I'm so fascinated with the ancient Druids and just want to learn everything I can. Something I was wondering- did the ancient Druids believe in reincarnation of the soul into new physical bodies? I've never read any direct evidence of their beliefs on this, one way or the other. I've read about their beliefs of the afterlife, beliefs of the soul living "eternally" beyond death of the body, and so on, but never found anyone- authors or otherwise- who was completely certain of their beliefs of reincarnation.

Thank you again! I'm glad I came here!

Astraea

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Twig
What is your opinion of "The 21 Lessons of Merlyn" and its' companion book "The Lost Books of Merlyn" by Douglas Monroe? We have a question of validity here so I'll hold off here until others have had their say.

Peace,
Twig

Um, fiction. The Book of Pheryilt (sp?) is a known forgery.
Try:

www.cyberwitch.com/wychwood/Library/whenIsACeltNotACelt.htm

for a review of the book and a few other things.....

Regards,

Maggie

[keelyoherne]

Originally posted by Maggie


Um, fiction. The Book of Pheryilt (sp?) is a known forgery.
Try:

www.cyberwitch.com/wychwood/Library/whenIsACeltNotACelt.htm

for a review of the book and a few other things.....


Thanks for sharing that link! I've read it before, but it is nice to reread it.

My favorite part quoted below:
"Most of Stepanich's tradition, like McCoy's, appears to have more in common with a box of Frosted Lucky Charms than with ancient Celtic religion."

ROFL!!!

Keely

[Twig]

First and foremost I would like to point out something in chapter 8 [21 Lessons] that is down right DANGEROUS !

This chapter deals with herbs used for medicinal purposes. There is an underlined instruction on page 155 to "add 1 drop of mistletoe tincture per dose to any of the 16 standards." Then he states that mistletoe helps curb "vertigo, dizziness, headaches, heart problems/palpitatiions, high blood pressure, arteriosclerosis, [and can be used as a] nervine.

Mr. Monroe advocates making a tinture with it. This increases the potancy to an unknown level in my opinion.

Mistletoe berries contain a very poisonous alkaloid. The American variety is much more deadly than the europian[sp] strain. My research has found that it has similar effects to belladona. But, there is no medicinal or scientific benefits that I can find to injest it.

In fact, from the symptom list he himself gives, it should be classified as a Central Nervous System inhibitor. If so, it is not a garden variety "downer" but, at high enough levels, starts to shut down things like the liver, kidneys, etc. The list of overdose problems is not pretty, belive me! Then there is the ultimate one...death. It has happened from eating the berries of the "holy toe".

To his honor, he has put good herbs on the list. I use most of them myself and, strongly recommend herblore to any budding druid. However, he did not give any adaquate precautions as to adverse reactions such as cautioning asthmatics against using goldenrod [chammomile], etc.

Being his books are "primers" to the druid field, I find this to be irresponsible and potentually dangerous for the uninitiated in the effects of herbs. Any teacher worth his weight will make DAMN sure you know the full potential effects before you try something. be it herbs, spells...whatever.

Comments??
Twig
:Elf:

[Spirahl]

I am not a Druid, but interested nevertheless, and read the book. It was a great read story-wise, there were times that I couldn't put it down. I did notice mistakes, such as Monroe's mention of pumpkins which are native to the Americas and not introduced to Britain at that time.

A couple of years ago, before having my own computer, I was at the library and stumbled across a site by a Druid group in England. They said that there is no basis for these books, and even worse was the blatent sexism. Monroe's claims that there were no women Druids is completely false and that Monroe had an "agenda". The publisher received so many complaints about the book, that he seriously considered breaking contract to publish the second installment. Well that's what that site said- I don't know enough about Druidism to know for sure.

I bought the second book, because- well, I'm curious, and wanted to see if I could catch more mistakes or whatever. It was enjoyable as "story" until the end when he started talking about being "The Chosen One" who's job it was to distribute this secret knowledge to those who were deemed worthy...blah, blah, blah. Personally, I found it a bit arrogant and "holier than thou". That type of attitude just doesn't wash with me. I wouldn't buy the third, if there is or will be one.

Just my 2 cents.

[Persephone]

I'd say the book is definitely fiction, but enjoyable and has some good ideas/information. I enjoyed reading both books, although the 2nd one, with his claim to be the reincarnation of Arthur and to be 'the chosen one', is a little harder to keep an open mind with.
And of course, being female, I totally disagree that women can't follow the druid path!

[Twig]

although the 2nd one, with his claim to be the reincarnation of Arthur and to be 'the chosen one', is a little harder to keep an open mind with.

8O I don't even remember seeing this part! Where did he say that!??
Heheheh.

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Persephone]

Oh, he may have implied it here & there...

[Spirahl]

I recall that most of that attitude became obvious at the end of the book when he was revealing the "secret" language that would awaken the trees and heal the earth...

[Twig]

In all fairness I invite Douglas Monroe to respond and clarify his books and positions.

Mr. Monroe. If you see this thread, we humbly invite your input in our Forum.


Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Mairwen]

Anybody know his email? I'll send him a link! :D

[mol]

Now that sounds like a plan.

Here is our mission:

1. Hunt down Monroe.
2. Get him in here.

I want to know a few things too. I have always been intrigued by the titles of those books. But, I have never purchased them because I have been told of their invalidity.

So....Id like to hear some more reviews and I would like to hear from the author himself.

[Pele_Oak]

I vote fiction as well.

But the probability of finding a good book is not good.

Basically the Celts and the Druids are fair game for all sorts of bogus info. I've read the stupidist things written about them, and everyone is guilty of making it all up! Archeologists, Authors, Occultists, ect.

Everything you read you have to think about, cross reference and look at their refrences ect.

For instance the human sacrafice aspect of old druidism does not mesh well with channled or pass life regresion info that says they where vegetarian pacifists.

You have to read, read and read and take the best of many books. Everything I have read on modern druidism indicates it is a recreated religion...ie peoples best guesses and fantasies. This is not to say they have not tapped into the ancient wisdom; many have; but it is a path of discovery now.

Pele_Oak

[Persephone]

I found the books very interesting and helpful, even though I didn't think all the information was correct.

I agree that we don't really know much for sure about the Druids. The closest thing to actual historical information was written by those who were fighting them.

Also I agree that you just have to read what you find available, and accept what feels right.

[thefluiddruid]

I read part of the book before I got disgusted and put it away.
I has nothing to do wht the Druidic beliefs I was raised with.
It is unfortunate that seekers have been fooled into believing this crap...

[Druidess Cara]

Douglas Monroe's books are good fiction yes, but he does have some good info in it. One of my favorites is chapter 15 when he talks about all gods being one. I've always felt that this is true.
I was raised Catholic, but I believe in nature and I have lots of Pagan friends. I never discriminate against anyone for their choosing of religion. I've read a lot of books on druidism and histories, but I think it comes from our own understanding of our place in this world. We are all connected yet different, that's what connects us. As Aristotle once said "When we try to reach the infinte and the divine by means of mere astract terms or images, are we even now better than children trying to place a ladder against the sky?" (21 Lessons -Pg.288) We don't need a ladder, we already have it in our hearts. time is experience and we learn from our experiences.
Just a lil rant, I love the place by the way. I'm glad to meet everyone and send my blessings!

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by Druidess Cara
Douglas Monroe's books are good fiction yes, but he does have some good info in it. One of my favorites is chapter 15 when he talks about all gods being one. I've always felt that this is true.

You are entitled to your feelings and views, but this was NOT the Celtic view of their gods. Their gods and nature spirits were all separate individuals.

May I suggest some more scholarly works?

"The Triumph of the Moon : A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft" by Ronald Hutton
"Pagan, Celtic Britain" by Anne Ross
"A History of Pagan Europe" by Prudence Jones, Nigel Pennick; ISBN: 0415158044

For online sources, I have a links page of fairly good information sites at http://draeconin.tripod.com/htm/links.htm

[Druidess Cara]

Oh I know that wasn't the way I'm just saying I agree with what was said. Thanks though for the book recomedations! :)

[Aramei]

Merry Meet all.

I find this thread very intersting because at the moment I am currently reading 21 Lessons of Merlyn and I am finding it to be a fascinating book.

I am not Druid but am looking for info to learn from. Am I to not believe what I am reading in these pages? I had thought it to be a great resource for druidry. I have also looked at many sites on druidism and my b/f studies druidism. Maybe I should ask his opinion of the book :)

?? I'm confused now. Thought I was learning something...LOL

Love and Light
Dragon Hugs
Aramei

[xjsjaglvr]

Well my old friend TWIG you invited me to this place so you knew sooner or latter I would put my two cents in about those "books".
FICTION pure FICTION. Now I will admit that many who now explore the path which some call Druidism do so because of an interest first raised by those books. Once that interest is raised though "Merlin, Pheryllt or whatever are best relegated to the trash.
Having been rasied a Pagan starting about age 10 I can tell you those books were never in my library. Of course as TWIG will say, Jag your an old time Druid. Yes, I learned in the old oral tradition. Does this affect my point of view? Yes it does. I see things different than many. I generally only teach or advise, that is my path. I neither teach nor practise what many call ceremony. Others are free to if they wish, however to many times have I seen people in long robes chanting gibberish, and thinking they are Druids. No thank you. Of course they are always the ones the news media seem to photograph or interview on Pagan holidays. Ah some will say "we are doing what works for us". Yes while that is true when others see that they often will think that it is correct for all. Care must be taken when selecting a source for such things.

[thefluiddruid]

Originally posted by xjsjaglvr
...........Of course as TWIG will say, Jag your an old time Druid. Yes, I learned in the old oral tradition. Does this affect my point of view? Yes it does. I see things different than many. I generally only teach or advise, that is my path. I neither teach nor practise what many call ceremony. ...............

It seems we have a bit in common. I too was taught Druidism as an oral tradition, and I was also raised Pagan.
Also, I am not into ritual workings, instead it is the way I live my life.
I also teach or advise. but not over the net, only as an oral tradition. The written word just cannot convey something as personal as spirituallity.
Even when I do teach, it is a case of me teaching "this is the way I was taught". I don't believe that a teacher is supposed to tell students that "this is the only way", but to give the student the tools need to find their own way...

[Twig]

Well my old friend TWIG you invited me to this place so you knew sooner or latter I would put my two cents in about those "books".

:) How have you been my Brother? I knew you couldn't be silent about our "old friend" for too long. ;) We're all glad to have you here or as our dear site god Mol says, "Welcome Home".

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[mol]

All the new faces in the Druid forum...welcome!

[thefluiddruid]

Actually I just haven't had the time to visit much lately. I've been busy getting the bugs out of my website, and trying to track down the person that hacked it last weekend.....

[Lavender]

Now, you've got my curiousity going about this book...would you recomend reading it as pure fiction? Or not bother at all?

[Aramei]

Well..seems my bubble has been burst..LOL
I truly enjoy reading the 21 Lessons of Merlyn and now am having a hard time continuing knowing it is fiction according to some.

I'm gonna force myself to continue reading it. Is there anything I should know as far as what about the book is false? That would help me to understand why people consider it fiction.

Thanks
Aramei

[thefluiddruid]

Well first of all Druids are not celibate, althought some individuals may be.
Also there is nothing prohibiting women from being Druids.
Basically this guy seems to be trying to start his own little cult under the name of Druidism...

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by thefluiddruid
Well first of all Druids are not celibate, althought some individuals may be.

Absolutely. In the histories it is noted that the Romans killed the Druids and their families.


Basically this guy seems to be trying to start his own little cult under the name of Druidism...

I found the book quite revolting, myself. It and the sequel.

[mol]

Ok.

How about a question?

What IS a good book to read about Merlin?

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by mol

What IS a good book to read about Merlin?

Which Merlin? There were at least two. Merlin Emrys (prophet) and Merlin ab Morvyn (poet) who lived approximately 100 years apart from each other. It is thought that it was a confusion of the two that gave rise to the myths of Merlin's (an Anglicization of the Welsh 'Myrddin') extraordinarily long life.

However, "The 21 Lessons of Merlin" is not about Merlin, but about the author's view of what the Celtic priesthood practiced and believed.

Anne Ross' "Pagan Celtic Britain", Ronald Hutton's books on the subject, and the Nigel Pennick/Prudence Jones collaboration has some good books as well.

[Astraea]

Mol,
I've read a couple books that examine Arthurian legends and myths- one was Celtic Myth and Arthurian Romance, by Roger Sherman Loomis. It didn't follow the same pattern as the findings of most others who have written about Arthurian legend. Not a book about Merlin, but it examines the myths surrounding his time.

Read some fiction other than Monroe's books too- "Mary Stewart's Merlin Trilogy" was fascinating and fun to read.
But the majority of what I've read is research on the ancient Celts, Druids. I haven't really found much regarding the actual history of Merlin- his actual existence rather than the myth. Maybe no one has written such a book. I'd love to know if one exists!

Wildchild,
I would definitely recommend Monroe's books. Even though they are fiction, they were still interesting. Like Draeconin mentioned, they aren't about Merlin at all.

[thefluiddruid]

Several years ago I found a great one at a flea market.
It examined several of the myths about Merlyn, as well has historical findings.
It talked about various legends, such as the one about his father being a demon. (Obviously a Christian legend.)
I wish I could remember the name of it. I would love to get another copy.

[Sora]

I'm a sucker for big, official looking books, I suppose. The Lessons was my first real, or not so real, look into Druidism. In my opinion, however humble or otherwise it may be, reading the Lessons of Meryln is like steping off the diving board, but the pool just happens to be empty. It sets you up, and then... 'splat'. It contredicts history, and most of the other literature I have read. But I personally thought it was good if you where interested in reading a story, but not if you where interested into truely taking a dive into authentic druidism.

[Shadowulfe]

i voted never heard of them....i have heard of them but never read either book so that puts me on nuetral ground....i really couldnt say one way or the other so I picked the only choice left to me....allthough I must admit I am intrigued by the various reponses to this post...the only way I can think of getting in Touch with Mr. Douglas Monroe is through Llewellyn's website....well anyways hope it helps.

Blessings,
Shadowulfe

[cydira]

This li'l witchiepooh may be a bit out of her league here but I've done some reaserch about the Celts and the Druids. I've read the 21 Lessons of Merlyn and I could never find the other books. When ever I did find them, I didn't have any money or some one grabbed the copy when I turned to see if I did have the money. Strange huh?? Just thought I'd share that with ya... even if it's unrelated. :D

As I was going to say before I started rambling, the 21 Lessons of Merlyn is complete fiction. The smattering of truth and the author's few recipies unfortunately make it possible for it to proport (did I spell that right??) to be fact. I tend to take a cautious step when it comes to working with *any* author who claims that their pet theories and fiction is historical fact with little if any references. I've found good books on the archeology and reaserch of the Celtic people and the Druids. Unfortunately, it's still horribly diffiult for me to find any good reserch about the Druids.

But... that'd kinda make sense. From what I have leared about the few encounters with individuals who were raised in the Druidic tradition, there is alot of work that is done with fairly powerful forces... if that's even the right way to describe it. I've been involved with an individual who had severe psychosies and thought that he was a druid or self styled arch druid. I pray to the goddess that I never run in to that particular man again. <shudders>

Sadly, Monroe's work gives these crazies a place to point and say that they're legitimate because of his fiction. <shakes her head> It scares me to think of what these people do to the true teachings of Druids, if the ever do get their hands on them. The thought of a psychotic mangling a religion for their personal power sickens me. And to use any religion, especially one of the oldest recorded earth religions, is perhaps a crime greater then any that we can describe. It is not simply profaning something sacred to another, but it is grossly abusing it. But I digress... (I probably did a while ago...) :bigredgri

[Maggie]

Actually, if you'd like more information about the druids and celts in general, the history sections are helpful. Ann Ross, Peter Ellis, Ronald Hutton are all good. To get technical, druidism isn't really the oldest recorded religion; a recognizable celtic culture doesn't appear until Hallstat, about 1600 bce (I think the year is correct <G>).

Regards,

Maggie

[Draeconin]

The Migrations of the Indo-European Mother Goddesses (http://draeconin.tripod.com/htm/migrations.htm)

Danu and Bilé - The Primordial Parents? (http://draeconin.tripod.com/htm/danubile.htm)
Pagan Resource Links (http://Draeconin.tripod.com/htm/links.htm) - Links to sites with solid information on many pagan and non-pagan subjects. Grouped by subject matter.

[Arak]

I agree with Twig that this book is extrememly dangerous.

As a story without the lessons, it is entertaining, although most definitely not well researched. With the lessons, this book is a disaster!

What makes this book so dangerous is that it is geared specifically at beginners who would not know any better and would not think twice about trying any of the activities suggested in the book.

On a spiritual level, there are rituals that beginners should not be even thinking about trying. On a physical level, the chapter on medicines is extrememly dangerous, particularly in regards to using poisonous herbs such as Mistletoe and Belladonna (Nightshade). Only a person well trained and experienced should be using herbs such as those. It's like handing a child some rat poison and saying that it's good for them. Highly unethical!

On top of the dangerous stuff, there are also the false facts that give beginners the wrong idea of what Druidism is all about.

For instance, Monroe's statement that pumpkins dotted the European countryside every fall is completely false. Pumpkins are native to North America and would more feasibly be seen dotting the countryside in the Unites States! Turnips were used to put little candles in for light by the Europeans.

Also, women could become Druids as is mentioned my writers such as Ceasar and even in Celtic mythology. Douglas Monroe insists that they are not Druids and has this very disturbing view of separating the two sexes.

His fascination with little blonde heaired boys is also slightly disturbing.

In short, I wouldnot recommend this book to anyone starting out, but I would recommend that people read it more for the sake of seeing where beginners might be getting their wild ideas from and to show what one should NOT be doing! It is always good to know all the views that are out there....especially the dangerous ones.

Blessings,
Arak /|\

[Aramei]

I am so glad I posted the question regarding "21 Lessons of Merlyn". I truly had no idea that it was so misleading. I do have strong interest in Druidism and thought this was a good place to start research.

I'm thankful to each and every one of you to point out the mistakes and misleading facts this book shows. I do, although, truly enjoy the story.

Any ideas where I can find "true" Druid facts and information regarding rituals, etc.

Aramei

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Aramei
I am so glad I posted the question regarding "21 Lessons of Merlyn". I truly had no idea that it was so misleading. I do have strong interest in Druidism and thought this was a good place to start research.

I'm thankful to each and every one of you to point out the mistakes and misleading facts this book shows. I do, although, truly enjoy the story.

Any ideas where I can find "true" Druid facts and information regarding rituals, etc.

Aramei

Depends on what you mean by "true" druid facts!:D

Anyway, there are some threads in the druid forum that give quite a few book titles. My own personal favorite for 'everyday' is __Kindling the Celtic Spirit__ by Mara Freeman.

Regards,

Maggie

[Druidess Cara]

Some of the books I read were :
The Druids ~Peter Ellis
The book of Druidry ~ Ross Nicholas
The world of the druids ~ Miranda Green
The Druids Celtic Preists of Nature ~ Jean Markale

I hope that helps you. Blessings!

[Arak]

Here is my bibliography from my website.I hope this has a fewbooks you might find interesting.

I decided that with all of the articles I'm writing, I should do up a bibliography. This turned out to be no small task as I have read a lot of books in the past ten years of my studies! I have tried to include all of the books I have read, but I may have missed a few.

I have put the books in categories of Author (if I have a lot of books by one particlular author), Druids, Mythology, General Paganism, and Llewellyn Publications.

I have a separate section on Llewllyn Publications as I know a lot of people have a huge problem with books published by Llewellyn, while others think Llewellyn is the best thing since sliced bread. In order to keep myself out of that debate, I shall simply list the books I have read by Llewellyn (because it is important to me to know ALL the points of view...not just the recommended ones! You never know when you may need to know what is being said!) This is the closest to a disclaimer on the Llewllyn subject as I am going to get. I'll leave the choice of whether you read these books up to you. (I do have a few Llewellyn books in my not recommended list...these are just books I personally do not recommend)

With that said, let's get started!


Authors
Caitlin and John Matthews

These two have written a lot of books that I personally enjoyed. I do not have all of their books, but here is the list of the ones I do have.


A Celtic Devotional (Caitlin Matthews), Godsfield Press, 1996.

A Celtic Reader: Selections from Celtic Legend, Scholarship and Story (John Matthews, Editor), Aquarian, 1991.

An Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom (Caitlin & John Matthews), Element Books, 1993.

Celtic Book of days: A Guide to Celtic Spirituality and Wisdom (Caitlin Matthews), Destiny Books, 1995.

Celtic Warrior Chiefs (John Matthews and Bob Stewart), Firebird Books, 1993.

Gawain: Knight of the Goddess - Restoring an Archetype (John Matthews), Aquarian Press, 1990, 1992.

Hallowquest: Tarot, Magic and the Arthurian Mysteries (Caitlin and John Matthews), Aquarian Press, 1990.

Ladies of the Lake (Caitlin and John Matthews), Aquarian, 1992.

Merlin Through the Ages: A Chronological Anthology and Source Book (R.J. Stewart and John Matthews), Blandford, 1995.

Singing the Soul Back Home: Shamanism in Daily Life (Caitlin Matthews), Element, Inc. 1995.

Sophia: Goddess of Wisdom - The Divine Feminine From Black Goddess to World Soul (Caitlin Matthews), Aquarian, 1992.
The Arthurian Tarot Course: A Quest for All Seasons (Caitlin Matthews), Thorsons, 1993.

The Bardic Source Book (Edited by John Matthews), Blandford, 1998.

The Celtic Book of the Dead. (Caitlin Matthews), St. Martin's Press, 1992.

The Celtic Seers' Source Book (Edited by John Matthews), Blandford, 1999.

The Celtic Shaman: A Handbook (John Matthews), Element, Inc. 1992.

The Celtic Spirit (Caitlin Matthews), 1998.

The Druid Source Book (Edited by John Matthews), Sterling Publishing Co. 1996.

The Elements of the Arthurian Tradition. (John Matthews), Element, 1989.

The Elements of the Celtic Tradition (Caitlin Matthews), Element, 1989.

The Little Book of Arthurian Wisdom (John Matthews), Element, 1994.

The Little Book of Celtic Blessings. (Caitlin Matthews), Element, 1994.

The Little Book of Celtic Wisdom (Now called The Little Book of Celtic Lore). (John and Caitlin Matthews), Element, 1993.

The Western Way: A Practical Guide to the Western Mystery Tradition (Caitlin and John Matthews), Arkana, 1985, 1986.

Taliesin: Shamanism and the Bardic Mysteries in Britain and Ireland (John Matthews), Mandala, 1991.

The Song of Taliesin: STories and Poems from the Books of Broceliande (John Matthews), Aquarian, 1991.
R.J. Stewart

Another prolific writer, R.J. Stewart's books have always been interesting to read and quite enjoyable.


Celtic Bards, Celtic Druids (Written with Robin Williamson), Blandford, 1996.

Celtic Gods, Celtic Goddesses; Blandford, 1992.
Earth Light: The Ancient Path to Transformation Rediscovering the

Wisdom of the Celtic and Faery Lore; Element, Inc. 1992.

Magical Tales: The Story Telling Tradition; Mercury Publishing, 1990, 1998.

Merlin: The Prophetic Vision and The Mystic Life (Two books in one), Penguin Arkana, 1986.

The Underworld Initiation: A Journey Toward Psychic
Transformation; Mercury Publishing, 1990, 1998.

The Way of Merlin: The Prophet, The Goddess and The Land - Techniques of Transformation From the Merlin Tradition, Aquarian, 1991.

Celtic Mythology and Life

Berresford-Ellis, Peter. The Chronicles of the Celts: New Tellings of Their Myths and Legends. Robinson Publishing, 1999.

Chadwick, Nora. The Celts (New Edition). Penguin, 1997.

Cotterell, Arthur. Celtic Myhtology: The Myths and Legends of the
Celtic World. Arness Publishing Ltd., 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000.

Day, David. The Search for King Arthur. De Agnosti Editions Ltd., 1995.

Davis, Courtney and James, David. The Celtic Image. Blandford, 1996.

Delaney, Frank. The Celts. Grafton, 1989. This was the book I read that started my entire journey into Druidism.

Cruden, Loren. Walking the Maze: The Enduring Presence of the Celtic Spirit. Destony Books, 1998.

Dillon, Myles and Chadwick, Nora. The Celtic Realms: The History and Culture of the Celtic Peoples from Pre-History to the Norman Invasion. Phoenix Press, 2000. (Originally printed in 1967)

Dowling-Daley, Mary. The Little Book of Irish Laws. The Appletree Press, 1989.

Eddy, Steve and Hamilton, Claire. A Beginner's Guide: The Timeless Wisdom of the Celts. Hodder & Stoughton, 1999.

Green, Miranda (Editor). The Celtic World. Routledge, 1995, 1996.

Gregory, Lady. Complete Irish Mythology. The Slaney Press, 1994. (Gods and Fighting Men originally published in 1904, and
Cuchulain of Muithemne originally published in 1902)

Heath, Jennifer. On the Edge of Dream: The Women of Celtic Myth and Legend. Plume, 1998.

Holleston, T.W. Celtic Mythology. Newcastle Publishing, 1997

MacCana, Proinsias. Celtic Mythology. Feltham, 1970.

Markale, Jean. The Druids: Celtic Priests of Nature. Inner Traditions International, 1999.

O'Connor, Peter. Beyond the Myst: What Irish Mythology Can Teach Us About Ourselves. Orion, 2000.

O'Donohue, John. Anam Cara: A Book of Celtic Wisdom. HarperCollins, 1997.

O'Donohue, John. Eternal Echoes: Celtic Reflections on Our Yearning to Belong. Cliff Street Books, 1999.

O'driscoll, Robert (Editor). The Celtic Consciousness. George Brazillen Inc., 1982.

(Penguin Clessics) A Celtic Miscellany. 1971.

(Penguin Classics) Early Irish Myths and Legends. 1981.

(Penguin Classics) The Mabinogion. 1976.

Pennick, Nigel. The Sacred World of the Celts: An Illustrated Guide to Celtic Spirituality and Mythology. Godsfield Press, 1997.

Rees, Alwyn and Brinley. Celtic Heritage. Thames & Hudson, 1990. (Originally published in 1961)

Ross, Anne. Druids, Gods and Heroes from Celtic Mythology. Peter Bedrick Books, 1986.

Ross, Anne. Pagan Celtic Britain. Academy Chicago Publishers, 1996 (Originally published in 1967).

Scott, Michael. The Book of Celtic Wisdom. Hodder & Stoughton, 1999.

Squire, Charles. Celtic Myth and Legend. Newcastle PublishingCo. Inc., 1975.

Tolstoy, Nikolai. The Quest for Merlin. Sceptre, 1990.
Webster-Wilde, Lyn. Celtic Women in Legend Myth and History. Cassel plc., 1997.

Wood, Juliette. The Celtic Book of Living and Dying: An Illustrated Guide to Celtic Wisdom. Chronicle Books LLC, 2000.


Druids & Druidry
There have been a great deal of books written on this subject. These are a few of the ones I have. Some of them are highly recommended by the various Druid groups, some are not.


Berresford-Ellis, Peter. The Druids. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1995.

Carmichael, Alexander. Carmina Gadelica. Floris Books, 1992.

Carr-Gomm, Philip and Murphy-Gibbs, Dwina (Editors). The Druid Renaissance. HarperCollins, 1996.

Carr-Gomm, Philip. The Druid Way. Element, 1993.

Carr-Gomm, Philip. The Elements of the Druid Tradition. Element, 1996.

Chopra, Deepak. The Way of the Wizard. Harmony Books, 1996.

Corrigan, Ian. Druiheachd: Symbols and Rites of Druidry. 1993.

Corrigan, Ian. The Portal Book: Teachings and Works of Celtic Witchcraft. Association for Conscious Exploration, 1996.

Drury, Nevill. Merlin's Book of Magick and Enchantment. Raincoast Books, 1998. (Not one I would recommend as an official book, but it is a fun read of fiction)

Evert-Hopman, Ellen. A Druid's Herbal for the Sacred Earth Year. Destiny Books, 1995.

Graves, Robert. The White Goddess. Noonday Press, 1948.
Frazer, J.G. The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion. The
MacMillan Press, 1976. (originally published in 1922)

Hansen, Daniel. American Druidism: A Guide to American Druid Groups. Peanut Butter Publishing, 1995.

Hope, Murry. Practical Celtic Magic: A Working Guide to the Magical Heritage of the Celtic Races. Aquarian, 1987.

Kindred, Glennie. The Tree Ogham. Self Published, 1997.

Kondratiev, Alexei. Celtic Rituals: An Authentic Guide to Ancient Celtic Spirituality (originally published as The Apple Branch). New Celtic Publishing, 1999.

Laurie, Erynn Rowan. Circle of Stones: Journeys and Meditations for Modern Celts. Eschaton, 1994.

Memory-Paterson, Jaqueline. Tree Wisdom: The Definitive Guidebook To the Myth, Folklore and Healing Power of Trees. Thorsons, 1996.

Nichols, Ross. The Book of Druidry Compiled by (John Matthews), Aquarian 1990.

Owens, Yvonne. Journey of the Bard. Horned Owl Publishing, 1997.

Piggott, Stuart. The Druids. Thames & Hudson, 1968, 1975.

Restall-Orr, Emma. Ritual: A Guide to Life, Love and Inspiration. Thorsons, 2000.

Restall-Orr, Emma. Spirits of the Sacred Grove: The World of a Druid Priestess. Thorsona, 1998.

Restall-Orr, Emma. Thorsons Principles of Druidry. Thorsons, 1998.

Shallcrass, Philip. Piatkus Guides - Druidry: A Practical and Inspirational Guide. Piatkus, 2000.

Spence, Lewis. The Mysteries of Britain: The Secret Rites and Traditions of Ancient Britain Restored. Newcastle Publishing Co., 1993.

Winwood-Reade, W. The Veil of Isis or Mysteries of the Druids. Newcastle Publishing Co., 1992

Worthington, Caristiona. A Beginner's Guide: Druids. Hodder & Stoughton, 1999.

Paganism in General

Adler, Margot. Drawing Down the Moon: Witches, Druids, Goddess-Worshippers and Other Pagans in America Today. Penguin Arkana, 1997. (originally published in 1975)

Cabot, Laurie and Mills, Jean. The Witch in Every Woman: Reawakening to the Magical Nature of the Feminine to Heal, Protect, Create and Empower. Dell Publishing, 1997.

Cuhulain, Kerr. The Law Enforcement Guide to Wicca: 3rd Edition Revised and Expanded. Horned Owl Publishing, 1989, 1992, 1997.

Evert-Hopman, Ellen and Bond, Lawrence. People of the Earth: The New Pagans Speak Out. Destiny Books, 1996.

Farrar, Stewart amd Janet. A Witches' Bible: The Complete Witches' Handbook. Pheonix Publishing, 1981, 1984.

Jones, Prudence and Matthews, Caitlin. Voices from the Circle: The Heritage of Western Paganism. Aquarian, 1990.

Starhawk and the Reclaiming Collective. The Spiral Dance: A Rebirth of the Ancient Religion of the Great Goddess. HaperCollins, 1989. *Reprinted and Updated*

Starhawk, with M. Macha Nightmare and the Reclaiming Collective. The Pagan Book of Living and Dying. HarperSan Fransisco, 1997.

Llewellyn Publications
I give you this list to with as you please. Some of these books are great, while others stink more than a garbage skow on a hot day... I've left my opinions out with only my recommendation or non-recommendation beside each book. Otherwise, it's up to you what you want to read. I consider it wise to have a look at all books as there may be an element of truth or at least you'll know what to avoid...one of the two.

Blamires, Steve. Glamoury: Magic of the Celtic Green World. 1996. (RECOMMENDED)

Buckland, Raymond. Scottish Witchcraft: The History and Magick of the Picts. 1991, 1993. (NOT SURE)

Conway, D.J. By Oak, Ash and Thorn: Modern Celtic Shamanism. 199 . (NOT HIGH ON MY LIST)

Conway, D.J.Celtic Magic, 1992 (NOT HIGH ON MY LIST)

Elsbeth, Marguerite and Johnson, Kenneth. The Silver Wheel: Women's Myth & Mysteries in the Celtic Tradtion. 1996. (NOT HIGH ON MY LIST)

Glass-Koentop, Patalee. Year of Moons, Season of Trees. 1991. (NOT TOO BAD)

Hugin The Bard. A Bard's Book of Pagan Songs: Stories and Music from the Celtic World. 1993. (I LIKED THIS ONE)

McCoy, Edain Celtic Myth and Magic. (NOT RECOMMENDED BY MOST)

McCoy, Edain.Celtic Women's Spirituality: Accessing the Cauldron of Life. 1998.

Mann, Nicholas and Magee-Sutton, Maya. Druid Magic: The Practice of Celtic Wisdom. 2000. (NOT BAD)

MacCrossan, Tadgh. The Sacred Cauldron. 1992. (NOT RECOMMENDED)

MacCrossan, Tadgh. The Truth About the Druids. 1990.(NOT RECOMMENDED!!!)

Monroe, Douglas. The 21 Lessons of Merlynn. 1993. (NOT RECOMMENDED!!!)

Monroe, Douglas. The Lost Books of Merlynn. 1998. (NOT RECOMMENDED!!!)

O'Gaea, Asheleen. The Family Wicca Book. 1993. (RECOMMENDED FOR FAMILIES)

Shadwyn. The Crafted Cup: Ritual Mysteries of the Goddess and the Grail. 1994. (NOT RECOMMENDED)

Stepanich, Kisma. Faery Wicca: Theory and Magick: A Book of Shadows & Light (Book One). 1996. (UP TO YOU)

Stepanich, Kisma. Faery Wicca: The Shamanic Practices of the Cunning Arts (Book Two) 1996. (UP TO YOU)

Thorsson, Edred. The Book of Ogham: The Celtic Tree Oracle. 1992. (NOT BAD)

Webster, Richard. Omens, Oghams and Oracles. 1995. (NOT BAD)

Wolfe, Amber. Elemental Power: Celtic Faerie Craft and Druidic
Magic (NOT HIGH ON MY LIST)

Wolfe, Amber. .The Arthurian Quest: Living the Legends of Camelot. 1996. (FOUND A FEW PROBLEMS WITH THIS ONE)

Well, there you have it, my bibliography which is constantly growing as I acquire more books for my collection.

If you have any recommendations for good books, please drop me a line at thaylann@yahoo.com

[Aramei]

k..that answered my question

:)

[Shadowulfe]

Thank you for the book recommendations! i am always searching for new books to study.

Blessings,
Shadowulfe

[CzechWoods]

Namaste all,

I did not read the hoax book, as I deny reading waste of paper.

I know from a dear friend, who is a trained druid, that my first impression of the book (lloks like a hoax to me) was once again validified. She recomanded me, to read that book, if i needed a good laugh

so far the review from my point of view.

need a good book on celts ? read robert graves the white goddess.

Czech

[Phrater]

All I want to say is: it is a great story...... if you bought it
thinking that it was going to historically accurate
smack yourself in the head.

Find me one person that knows the truth about Druidism
and is willing to write about it..... anywhere.

Don't tell me the OBOD or some other liberty taking
recreationist group.... they are all pathetically misguided.

If you want the truth find someone with true lineage.
If you want some good fiction keep buying books published by Llewellyn.

[Twig]

MODERATOR MODE

Dear Phrater,

Paragraph 3 of your post is in violation of rule #1 of the community guidelines.

Please respect all others paths in the community and this forum.

This is warning #1

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Phrater]

What is the purpose of a board if you cannot voice your
opinion?

Should I agree with everyone, mold my method of thought to better suit everyone else's comfort? Or tell it like it is and
provoke a spark in someone towards the realm of reality.

Too many people take the name of an old tradition then
redefine what it is as if they coined the term.

Even Neo-Druid is wrong as theyhave no real foundation
in the original besides the name.

It is just as biased as me Starting a "Christian" group based
that has nothing to do with Jesus, but rather my interpretation
of what I think it was.

If I do not have the right to speak my mind, take me off of your mailing list and do not waste my time any further.

If you support free speach keep me and maybe learn a thing
or two.

My intention was never to offend, simply educate.
-------------------------------------------------------
(Attn. I have edited the word based to biased for clarification-Twig)

[thefluiddruid]

The problem isn't in you expressing your beliefs, but in how you did it.
You can state that you don't share the beliefs of a group, but it is against the rules to verbally attack any group.

I myself don't share their belief, but they have the right to believe what they want.
I also don't agree with them calling themselfs Druids, but they could be considered Neo-Druids, as they base their beliefs on what they have been able to find out about Druids.

If you have a problem with their information, then educate them.

I myself come from a family lineage, but I don't force by beliefs on others, nor directly insult those who don't belive in the Tradition that I was raised with.

Of course your not going to find Druidic teachings in books, as ours is a oral tradition.

[Twig]

Moderator Mode

The entire concept of the MysticWicks community is based on acceptance of one by All regardless of their path. Therefore, I will not allow anyone to claim another path as wrong or invalid in this forum.

We (as druids) probably have the most diverse ways of all to worship our Gods given the lack of true info on the exact ways of our elders. So rejoice in the variety, don't condemn it.

Hell, if Monroe came here himself I would welcome him here with open arms! But then I would say "About them books?" ;)

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[thefluiddruid]

Originally posted by Maggie
To get technical, druidism isn't really the oldest recorded religion; a recognizable celtic culture doesn't appear until Hallstat, about 1600 bce (I think the year is correct <G>).

Regards,

Maggie

Hi Maggie,
While your statement was one considered correct, new discoveries have pushed back the origan of the Celtic people by almost 20,000 years, as well as showing that the Celtic people may not have origanated in the Indeo-Europian area as was thought, but arose throughout western Europe.

For more information you might want to check out
"Atlas of the Celtic World" by Barry Cunliffe, as well as the article at

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_479418.html?menu=

[Danustouch]

Back to the Douglas Monroe books...

Ugh...the blatant sexism was enough to turn me off right from the start.

Then..his implication that he was some sort of "Chosen One"..or maybe a reincarnated merlin, or something..left me feeling like I needed to hunt him down, and drag him to the loony bin.

Overall..i'd say.."heck yeah, his books are dangerous.". I've met several people who SWEAR by them, in various pagan chat rooms. That frightens me. And what's hysterical, is that when you try to point out the historical innaccuracy, they get all defensive, and bitter about it. Ugh.

[Mita]

If The 21 Lessons is not a segested read... can you please segest some good accurate books?

I am still searching spiritually and I have been leaning toward the Druidic Pursuasion!

What part of The 21 Lessons do you find unaccurate... the story line or the information at the end of each chapter?

[Twig]

Search back through the forum. Heck,There's a good recommendation on the prior page of this thread! [You didn't read the whole thread, did you?] Heheheh.

That's ok, that's what we are hear for. To help each other. I'll dig up some more. Uuummmmm here.

The Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom- Caitlain&John Matthews

The World of the Druids, by Miranda Green

THese are NOT pop press books! These are scholorly works on a college level. [ Few pictures ;)]But then, it is these books I put up against the "Monroe Doctorine" so to say. By these books I ask you, make your decision.

I made the mistake of trying to start paganism the fast way. It took years to undo the damage. Think about it. The Monroe books supposedly drops the secrets of the Druids in your lap! B.S.! Sorry but he oversteps the bounds in both the story and the "magick".

Oh and, you want the Phyrllt.........!???SORRRRRY, gotta buy the second book! ;) Hehehehe

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Mita]

The Monroe books are pure fiction, Alhough I enjoyed the story! They kept me from going completly insane in those long early Saturday mornings at work! I recomend you buy these books for a good bedtime story,but other than that, they're about the best outhouse wallpaper! |:^p I do find it humorous though when us druid folk start pulling out their hair when the subject is brought up! :^)

Blessed be!

[Starlock]

I think yes alot of it is crap but he does cover a number of areas that are true as many as not. He also hints at the mostly unknown past of the druidic faith thats even older than the celtic nation it self.

Anyway as I am one who has learnt threw books, experinces and memories of old, I would say that the book is worth a read but should not be taken as the bible of druidism in any way. As he states druids would not commit anything to writen word other than the scratchings and markings on wood, and even then not much.

That said tho i think that you will not find any book that will really answer your questons, may i sugest you look inside your self while you wait for your teachers to arrive.

[Maggie]

Originally posted by Starlock
I think yes alot of it is crap but he does cover a number of areas that are true as many as not. He also hints at the mostly unknown past of the druidic faith thats even older than the celtic nation it self.



The problem with statements he makes like this is that they don't really make much sense. "Druid" is a distinct functionary within ancient celtic societies, although the word in contemporary society now has a wider meaning. The 'druidic' faith, meaning that of the celtic pagan societies, didn't exist outside of those celtic societies. There assuredly were religions before the celts, and those most likely had similar functionaries, but Monroe's take on this is pretty much fiction.

Regards,

Maggie

[Starlock]

Originally posted by Maggie
The problem with statements he makes like this is that they don't really make much sense. "Druid" is a distinct functionary within ancient celtic societies, although the word in contemporary society now has a wider meaning. The 'druidic' faith, meaning that of the celtic pagan societies, didn't exist outside of those celtic societies. There assuredly were religions before the celts, and those most likely had similar functionaries, but Monroe's take on this is pretty much fiction.

Regards,

Maggie

what about hermits, druids did travel alot as well ya know, also the druids in my belive were around before we saw the rise of the celtic nation. It is my firm belive that much of the druids faith and belive system come from the religions and studying of Atalantis.

Yes ofc a druids was part of the celtic society but it was large than that alot larger, the celtic society was largely kept in the dark unless they joined the preisthood.

monroe is a guy trying to make money or he wouldnt have even writien the whole story as tho authur was the only important thing in the world of the druids. he used an old story and bit of what he has leran and alot of crap he picked up along the way.

But much of what he said is good and i belive that the book was wrtitien not for the knowledge contained within but for the things it would bring about, such as this conversaion.

[Twig]

I'm bumping this thread.

:bump:

Peace,
Twig

[Phoenix_Blue]

Thanks for bumping this, Twig. :) It's relevant to a discussion in the books forum, so I posted a link from that discussion to this one.

[Lucidia]

i'm no expert, but when i was younger, and I was drawn towards a druidic path, I read that stuff, and I think it was somewhat helpful. but i never really go by only one source. I read everything and forumulate my own sort of.. path....

[Myrddyn Emrys]

That right there marks you as a Druid, in my book. One should never take a single source as the ONLY source. I even tell my students that whatever I teach them, they need to form their own oppinion. I tell them to research, study, and question. I assure them that I'm only the diving board that will launch them into the deep pool of questing for knowledge. If they take with them only what I teack, well, they have learned something. But, if they take what I teach them and have learned to quest for more, then I have taught the proverbial starving man to fish.

Myrddyn Emrys

[Twig]

Quoteth Emrysonly the diving board that will launch them into the deep pool of questing for knowledge

:geez: :lol: You a funny man! Yeah, thats deep sayeth the Pool god.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Don't get in "over your head" on this one...

This could be a "deep" subject..

We could just "filter" our comments...

Then again, we could just be "skimming the surface"...

We may need to "pool" our knowledge on this one...

I know, I know...my comments are "all wet"...

:rolleyes:

Myrddyn Emrys

[JimWA]

I was alittle leary of taking this poll. Come on, with only the choice of totally fiction or totally non-fiction as the only choices, I had to vote for non-fiction, but I like the book as a fictionalized story of somebodies journey. So for me it's fictionalized non-fiction. What I'm trying to say is that the poll needed a middle ground. I can't say that you should follow the book or that you should throw it out. I say you should read it and take from it what you will. Jim

[kerilios]

Well, I'm a Druid for 6 years now and i read and have the two books by Monroe. What can i say...first it seems that it is based in some knowledge from the Medieval Magicians(has a tone of it) and some of the procedures are right and some are wrong. I would say that they are not books to trust but not everything are wrong. Ok sexist, historically wrong and etc...but can we entertain ourselfs with something more valuable?

This is my opinion

:geez:

[Twig]

And Welcome to our humble forum.

As to Mr. Monroe and his books. It's commonly known that the Druids main search is a search for Truth. It's been proven that the manuscript he uses as a basis for the books is a fake. That being said, how do you trust what they say as truth when the basis of what they say is a lie?

Even after it was proven as false, he still maintained the validity of it.

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[JimWA]

I can read these books knowing what they are, one mans thoughts on what druidry is. When he makes great sweeping statemnets that they're more than that. I can ignore them, and I do. This is just one man's vision and as far as that goes he does a good job. The basic story is historical fiction, but it is just a vehicle for deeper insights. They are not older druidic insights as he says but his own insights. This doesn't make them any less valid. I thing that if he would admit to them being historical fiction, he'd get a lot more respect. Jim

[Breuddwyd]

I have to say that although yes, the 21 Lessons is clearly based on forgery & fiction, that it still changed my life by inspiring me toward paganism (which I never knew existed prior to reading this book.) Yes, it's a fake (like the Necronomicon & a multitude of others,) but even so it will always hold a place in my heart.

Peace,
Breuddwyd

[turtlerain46]

The 21 lessons of Merlin was one of the first books I picked up when looking into druidism, however it only took maybe 2 chapters before I tossed it. I know it's bad to judge a book only after 2 chapters, but this one was a major exception. I still find it hard to believe that it was meant to be truth, :eyebro: It's actually kinda funny how there's a post going about this book, I was just talking to a lady the other day and it somehow came up in the conversation, needless to say it gave it us both a good laugh

[Mudbubbles]

Well fiction or not it worked for me. In my opionion weather or not it is based on forgery, if it works thare be something to it. I would say it's a good book; however if you do not belive me use it in reference sometime, and you may see what I mean.

[turtlerain46]

I definitly know what you're saying with, even though it was meant as fiction it still meant alot to you by introducing you to paganism. I think alot of people have the expeirence where the first they pick up is not always the best but still has a huge affect on you, because if it's published by pagan authors it still gives you a huge light into what paganism really is, (i.e not old women flying around on brooms, cooking children) Myn was a silver ravenwolf book, granted that now I don't really like her works all that much and the one I read teenwitch, was really silly it still gave me a light into the world, so I guess I kinda funny how many people endup looking back on their first book as being silly, but still having that strong affection for it.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

My personal view on this book in general is this;

It is a useful tool, containing SOME valid information...

Munroe's works should contain more warnings though...

Unfortunately, if this book were a gun, Munroe would have written the warnings on the INSIDE of the barrel!:wtf:

Myrddyn Emrys

[mol]

It's a fiction novel!

[Myrddyn Emrys]

It's a fiction novel!
The "sequel" is even WORSE! (The Lost Books of Merlyn. Should have stayed that way!)

Myrddyn Emrys

[Phoenix_Blue]

The "sequel" is even WORSE! (The Lost Books of Merlyn. Should have stayed that way!)

Myrddyn Emrys
:rollingla

[Twig]

The "sequel" is even WORSE! (The Lost Books of Merlyn. Should have stayed that way!)

Myrddyn Emrys

Goddess forbid he writes a trilogy!!!

And in all fairness I DID invite him here and this comm. is big enough he should have noticed by now.

[JimWA]

Invited who? Douglas Monroe? He's to busy writing his third book, lol.

Funny thing is that I would have never read his books except some friends fof mine knew I was into this druidic stuff adn they asked me about it after they read it. This means that I had to read them before comment. I even read the second book first. The first book was more entertaining, he should have left it there.

I can't see why al this negativity about the books except that they're historical fiction used to present one man's view of druidism. The feel and categories and methods and phillosophy are close enough to what I know of druidry for me to recognize them as druidic. I have no reason not to believe that the author is a druid, that he says he has the authentic way is laughable at best, propaganda to sell books at worst. Jim

[Angharad Goldenhand]

Tricky one. If you're talking historical accuracy, it's a load of codswallop, and as some have said, there are some dangerous things lurking in its pages.

But in the Druid tradition, creativity and inspiration are to be encouraged... I believe that Monroe had written in the spirit of Druidry, if not the letter.

Still, I would be happier if he made it clear that the books are his own personal invention, rather than trying to pass them off as genuine tradition.

[mol]

Tricky one. If you're talking historical accuracy, it's a load of codswallop, and as some have said, there are some dangerous things lurking in its pages.

But in the Druid tradition, creativity and inspiration are to be encouraged... I believe that Monroe had written in the spirit of Druidry, if not the letter.

Still, I would be happier if he made it clear that the books are his own personal invention, rather than trying to pass them off as genuine tradition.
I really want to know what is so dangerous inside of this book.

[Calzaer]

Mr. Monroe advocates making a tincture with it. This increases the potancy to an unknown level in my opinion.
While it's inadvisable to drink any solution with mistletoe in it, a tincture is perfectly useless. The substance is so diluted that you may as well be drinking dishwater that a mistletoe leaf was wisked through. In the case of some tincture recipies I've read and done the math on (blast you, math! Blast you!), there's not even a single molecule of original substance left in the tincture. Other, less stringent recipies make the dilution down to 1ppm.

How anyone thinks that makes a substance MORE powerful boggles my mind. Tap water has lots of stuff diluted into it to those strengths (and less!), but it's not a cure-all or a deadly poison.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Well, Mol, one thing in particular is his list of "The 16 Leaches (herbs) of Dian Cect". I'm not sure how much you have delved into herb lore, but he dedicates a mere two or three pages to these sixteen medical herbs. In all of my herbal reference books I have (approx. a dozen) , each of these herbs is given at least three pages of it's own. He touts the benefits and healing properties of these herbs, but glosses over side effects, states nothing on allergic reactions, and is vague or non existant on proper usage (ex. no statement at all that Calendula is srtictly topical and should not be taken orally).

Munroe also states to make tinctures out of all of these. Some of these are best used as a simple tea, and tincutres of them will increase the potency level too high to be effective, but make them counter productive instead.

When it comes to the most hazardous one of them all, MISTLETOE, this lack of providing information on his part could be fatal to a novice or one of their patients they are trying to treat.

As to the Herbal portion he puts in his book, he hands the reader a loaded and cocked gun with a warning label written inside the barrel.

Using this as an example, if the rest of his research and planning for this book was as slip-shod, I doubt any of his credibility.

I'm sure others here will have things to add. I feel, that if by posting as we have in this forum, we get even just one new Druid to do further research before attempting anything in his books, we have un-cocked the gun at least. Once you cross referrence his material (not just the herbs, but a lot else as well), one can find the errors and sort useful from stupidity.

Myrddyn Emrys

[mol]

Thanks for the info. That does sound irresponsible of the author not to give warnings when dealing with herbs that have deadly effects. I wonder why he overlooked this? Perhaps ignorance?

[Twig]

"The substance is so diluted that you may as well be drinking dishwater that a mistletoe leaf was wisked through."

Ummmm not the way I make mine my friend. I use heated alcohol extraction.

And as to the mistletoe? The American variety is much more potent (deadly) than the Europian strains.
Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Twig]

:ballonsmi So sayth Emrys...
Once you cross referrence his material (not just the herbs, but a lot else as well), one can find the errors and sort useful from stupidity.

You know my Brother, that is exactly how I learned the Truth. You been watching me longer than I realised!!!!

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Bro, all I will say is...

:hehehehe:

Myrddyn Emrys

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Mol, the WORST part of all of it is that he is a TEACHER of Driudry at his "New Forest Centre" in Mexico! I pray to all the Godforms there are that his teaching methods aren't as lax as his writing methods!

Myrddyn Emrys

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Same way I do, except I allow the sun to heat mine by placing them in a windowsill in direct light. Does right nice in the Arizona sun! Have to compensate for time to heat in summer, though.

Myrddyn Emrys

[Druidess Cara]

Yeah it I think its pure ignorance .. and I can't believe they made him the teacher at the new forest centre.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Kinda helps to become the teacher when you finance the place...

Myrddyn Emrys

[JimWA]

Well, at least the book spark a lot of dialogue. It was good in that way for this message board. I for one enjoyed all the discussion even though it was mostly negative. Some of Monroe's bible study (BS) was quite entertaining. I got some good laughs from his books.

If you haven't figured me out yet, I'm quite irreverant and iconoclastic, but that's just me. Jim

[sodken]

this book was the first book i bought.it was very interesting to read.
but didnt seem quite right.the lost book's was second in my collection
wasnt a bad read.but something told me not to try what he sugested.
since i finished i have did alot of reading on magic.and got online finaly
and have watched his therory's slaughtered and smashed.but he isnt
the only one writting pure fiction and calling it fact.there are many out
there making there money on newbie's in magic.i wonder if any lawsuit
have ever been placed against a aurthor over false work's.

in a early post in this thread someone mentioned a mixture of mistletoe
and how the effect's could cause kidney failure.a friend borrowed my copy
of 21 leson's.soon after he became severly ill and died of kidney failure.
i wonder if she tried a mixture herself and that's why.
anyway for a good read i like it,for a guied isnt worth the paper it's printed
on.

Happy samhain and may all be blessed in the following year.and may
the god/dess smile on all you do.

[Morgandria]

I wonder if Mr. Monroe, when he is teaching at the New Forest Center, refuses to take women into his classes still?

-M.

[tensen]

Sorry that I'm positing a responce late...

But to the person who said a tincture was diluted... what method are you using for a tincture?

[Bainidhe Dub]

I really appreciate this thread - being the shopaholic I am I found a used copy of 21 Lessons for cheap and bought it just to check it out for myself. I look forward to sorting through this book, no matter how much boloney is inside lol :)

[Autumn Clair]

I am not a Druid, but interested nevertheless, and read the book. It was a great read story-wise, there were times that I couldn't put it down. I did notice mistakes, such as Monroe's mention of pumpkins which are native to the Americas and not introduced to Britain at that time.

A couple of years ago, before having my own computer, I was at the library and stumbled across a site by a Druid group in England. They said that there is no basis for these books, and even worse was the blatent sexism. Monroe's claims that there were no women Druids is completely false and that Monroe had an "agenda". The publisher received so many complaints about the book, that he seriously considered breaking contract to publish the second installment. Well that's what that site said- I don't know enough about Druidism to know for sure.

I bought the second book, because- well, I'm curious, and wanted to see if I could catch more mistakes or whatever. It was enjoyable as "story" until the end when he started talking about being "The Chosen One" who's job it was to distribute this secret knowledge to those who were deemed worthy...blah, blah, blah. Personally, I found it a bit arrogant and "holier than thou". That type of attitude just doesn't wash with me. I wouldn't buy the third, if there is or will be one.

Just a quick note. I read the thing about pumpkins too. Though I haven't read the book it was in a Druid Celtic site that pumpkins did not come from there they used something with a candle that they carried, pumpkins turned up here in the states for Halloween

Just my 2 cents.

[Faol]

It strikes me that you're all in the position of fleas arguing about who owns the dog. Nobody knows the validity of any other individuals claim because any living path constantly mutates. Just as each individual carries their own definition of 'enlightenment' within themselves, their path to attaining it is likewise defined internally.

My wife likes curry - I don't: our perceptions change the reality of curry - for her it is a treat, for me a torture. HOWEVER, love it or loathe it, it will provide nourishment

[Seamus MacNemi]

I personally couldn't agree more.:reading::T The Path is already written and enscribed in our own hearts so while books might serve to shine some light upon what's already there, they cannot write any more.
I wouldn't say not to read these books, but don't take them for Druidic Gospel ( if there is any such thing :rollingla:)

[Seamus MacNemi]

:hailmol: :T

[Seamus MacNemi]

Beware the BLACK HACKER :hehehehe: and these guys :stooges:

[Seamus MacNemi]

These posts, while they have made an interesting read, reveal as much about ourselves as they do about the authors of this and all other such fictions.
Of course it's fiction, but so then is most of what we call reality. The whole point of Druidism is to get beyond the Ficticious notions we all entertain about ourselves and the world aroung us. That is the meaning of the term DRUID.
Druidism is about the pursuit of TRUTH. It's not about being a Celt or an Irishman or what ever. The ancient Druids themselves endeavoured far beyond the limitations of any mere tribalism. That is why Caesar feared them so. They alone stood between him and his conqueroing of Gaul.
We can never recreate the Druidism that was. But can create a Druidism that IS. THAT, as far as I am concerned, is the true task which lies before us. All else is as much an effort of fiction as is the writing of these books.:rollingla:

[Autumn Clair]

Druidism is about the pursuit of TRUTH. It's not about being a Celt or an Irishman or what ever. The ancient Druids themselves endeavoured far beyond the limitations of any mere tribalism. That is why Caesar feared them so. They alone stood between him and his conqueroing of Gaul.

Actually Caesar feared them because they did not fear DEATH................But Everything else is right it is the pursuit of Truth with both Celts and Druids.
I would not want to go back to the old ways in everything Celts and Druids were into human sacrifice and cutting off heads and hanging them around as tropheys..........But the way of nature is what I like about them so much.

:fofftopic Of the Book.................

[Robert Baird]

I am the author of the above titled book. I take the likes of Ellis and the many others listed as sources here and put current archaeology into the mix. The area of my special insight (other than my last name and lifelong study of what a Druid or Baird [BRD and the Language of the Birds]) comes from having been mentored by the only speakers of the five dialects of Ogham. This book is the featured book this week on WorldMysteries and can be seen inpart through the publisher site at http://www.invispress.com/DRD

[Ceffyl]

Interesting discussion!

You can learn something from any book you read, so you might pick up some useful tid-bits from 21 Lessons of Merlin. However, if you are interested in a historical accuracy, you may want to double and triple check the sources.

Ceisiwr Serith (http://www.ceisiwrserith.com/aboutme.htm) wrote a thorough review (http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/reviews/21.html) for the Celtic Studies Resources (http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/) Web site. On the same site, a review/dissection of the Book of Pheryllt (http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/pheryllt.html).

Other reviews:
Druid.org on 21 Lessons (http://www.druid.org/druidbooks/monroe.htm) and Ellen Evert Hopman's Review (http://www.druid.org/druidbooks/monroe.htm) (If you have trouble fnding the information for these reviews, Visit Druidbooks (http://www.carlmccolman.com/druidbooks.htm).)
Randall's Review at The Cauldron (http://www.ecauldron.com/bk21lom.php)

It's been a while since I read 21 Lessons of Merlin. The first thing I noticed was the format: presentation is difficult and confusing and the typography is poor. My book had been printed so light it looked like a photocopy of a photocopy. The bibliography is incomplete (unfortunately all too common in Pagan literature). You're never quite given enough information about any titles to easily look them up. His attitude towards women was another turn-off for me.

I should pull out my copy and review it... I'm curious now.

Blessings,

Ceffyl

[Myrddyn Emrys]

It strikes me that you're all in the position of fleas arguing about who owns the dog. Nobody knows the validity of any other individuals claim because any living path constantly mutates. Just as each individual carries their own definition of 'enlightenment' within themselves, their path to attaining it is likewise defined internally.
Some of what you say rings true, but, when you have a variety of other sources that all correspons with each other and they all contradict the information in Monroe's works that he is passing off as Welsh Druidry, the validity isn't there. If he were to come out and outright say that this was his own path of Druidry, that would change the whole outlook on it. Yet, he continually quotes from the Book of Pherllyt which has been proven to be a fake, leaves out critical warnings on things that could be FATAL.

If you look at the information that the BDO, ADF, OBDO, OBOD, Henge of Keltria, and just about any other source for Druidic Teaching uses, it differs so greatly from Monroe's that it's impossible for him to even concider it "authentic" Druidry.

[Ladyvi]

~ holds hands up~ .. the gifts are represented in us in different ways .. i can do things my SO cant .. and my SO can do things i cant. it something inate within our souls. to be druid is to have he heart of the earth with in your own. to feel her move and the seasons change within your blood. it isnt a matter of if you are of lineage or have an affinity for a particular element. its all inclusive. druidry isnt an act or what you are. its a lifestyle and who you are.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

But I honestly think that the "movement" Monroe is most attuned to is the movement of royalties into his bank account.

[Daernius]

I may be just a beginner, and have only been following my druidic path for about two years now, but I can't help wanting to put in a few words about the work of Mr. Monroe...
I think we all know that we can't always expect perfect historical accuracy in every book we read, but that still doesn't mean we should neglect to see the true message portrayed by Monroe in his work. In his second book he really is just showing us the danger that our Mother Earth is in right now, and the ever-increasing power of man to destroy her. I personally think that we should be addressing the true crisis at hand (the future of the world we live in) rather than the flaws in historical accuracy and typos present in his writing. I don't care if he completely made the whole thing up--he still has a very important point that it seems we are all failing to acknowledge! Something must be done soon to change the consciousness of mankind to stop destroying the earth.
I mean you have to give the man some credit for attempting to formulate a solution to save our burdened planet. Personally, I beleive in his solution of forming a network of awakened trees to alter the consciousness of man, and ultimately save (if not delay) the life of our mother earth. No matter how crazy it may sound, and no matter how many mistakes and irresponsible words he may have included in his work, he still has a point!
Have you not sensed something quickly approaching us?? Do you not feel something wrong in our future?? I, for one, have felt the changes in our planet, and felt the cries of the mother earth beneath our feet. I feel it, Monroe feels it, the Mother Goddess feels it...doesn't anyone else??????

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Yes, I (and others I know) feel it strongly. Yes Mr Monroe is right in that respect, but only in that respect. Have you read all the posts in this thread? As well there is at least one or two more threads in this section (or in the archives) on his works. Much better sources out there than Douglas Monroe

[Daernius]

okay,
I just felt that all the posts in this thread made too much of an attack at Monroe, and I just wanted to make sure we were still getting something from what he wrote, despite the presence of the hisorical inaccuracy and mistakes in his books

[sari0009]

I posted this in another forum but I just noticed this Druid one so maybe it's better suited here:

I just wondered if anyone knows of a good, honest review of this book- one that is by a person with some decent Druidic knowledge- that I could direct a friend to.

http://davensjournal.com/21LoM.xhtml

[happyheathenmom]

Monroe is to Druidry, as Ed Fitch is to Asatru..

Wasn't Monroe a convicted child molester or something to that effect?? I can't remember it's been too long since I read anything about him..

[domiobrien]

Monroe is to Druidry, as Ed Fitch is to Asatru..

Wasn't Monroe a convicted child molester or something to that effect?? I can't remember it's been too long since I read anything about him..

Monroe is, apparently, a Ceremonial magician by training, with no Druidic background, material borrowed from sources ranging from known Celtic forgeries to the movie Excalibur, complete misstatements of fact, and yes, convictions for child sexual abuse.

[whisper54]

In the olden days or Dark Ages, occult material was hidden in secrete libraries, and generaly studied by scholars that had access to a very small amount of accumulated knowledge. It was understood that some books were off limits to even monks. It was a time that even the bible was against the law to own. Today that same knowledge is available in any Barnes and Noble. Today we have more knowledge available to us than at any other time in the history of man, and the truth is still hidden. Hidden beneath hundreds of books that have no meaning, hidden behind the veil of glossy, glitzy books that only touch on the true nature of the teachings. The neophyte is at risk here in learning useful lessons if they are caught up in image rather than discipline. 'Merlyns lessons' a case in point.

Monroe is walking a thin line when he advocates recipes that can do harm, such as mistletoe. I read a lot of herbal material and that is the first time that I know of an author that actually prescribes a dosage. A small figured person could be at risk here. I'm surprised that he hasn't been sued by some one that has partial paralysis because of his recipes. Oh by the way, the American variety of mistletoe is a lot stronger than the european variety by several times.


as for Monroe,,,,, they probably said the same thing about Crowley, or worse for that matter.

[Nantonos]

In the olden days or Dark Ages, occult material was hidden in secrete libraries, and generaly studied by scholars that had access to a very small amount of accumulated knowledge. It was understood that some books were off limits to even monks. It was a time that even the bible was against the law to own.

What time are you talking about here? Just to the nearest century or so - not sure what you refer to.

Today that same knowledge is available in any Barnes and Noble. Today we have more knowledge available to us than at any other time in the history of man, and the truth is still hidden. Hidden beneath hundreds of books that have no meaning, hidden behind the veil of glossy, glitzy books that only touch on the true nature of the teachings.

An apt analogy. Te difference between data and information.

[blackroseivy]

Wow... Are any of the books worth anything, do you think? Or are they all a waste of time?

[Nantonos]

Assuming that people do not have infinite amouts of either cash to buy books or time to read them, there are probably a few hundred books I would recommend above this one.

Unless they were doing a sociological study on "the construction of identity in 20th century Pagan communities" or something.

[whisper54]

Nantonas,,,, I'm refering to the beggining of the twelfth century, it was a time of some very nasty fanatics out to nab all Heretics. When a child reached the age of 12 and 14 they were made to take a loyalty oath in front of the bishop to be good catholics and report heretics and help hunt down and capture any heretics. They were also required to take confession at certain times. Those who refused to take the oath were considered potential heretics and the priest's were to report them.

Lay persons were forbidden to posses any books of the old or new testament 'with the exception of the Psalter, the Breviary, and the Book of Hours of the Blessed Virgin' and it was expressly forbidden to own one of these in the vernacular version (non-latin)

my reference book considered it a time of Nazi-style informers

[Silvan]

I recall that most of that attitude became obvious at the end of the book when he was revealing the "secret" language that would awaken the trees and heal the earth...

I don't remember the book well enough to recall exactly the bit you're talking about. I've often wondered what was up with his "Charm of Making" or whatever he called it. The words were something like

analnatrac urvasbithud dothiel dienve

I'm sure I've got the spelling all wrong, but the words came straight out of the movie Excalibur. I memorized them when I was a wee lad, and then I think I ultimately read that book because I stumbled across that bit of text while flipping through it in the crapper. (My wife has all manner of books stowed in various strategic places in the salon du crappée. Most recently I picked up "The Dragon Queen" by Alice Borchardt, and that was definitely a much more fulfilling read than the 21 Lessons of Merlyn.)

Anyhoo, I spotted obvious errors in the book too. Pumpkins, and didn't Merlin smoke a pipe? Smoking didn't come to the old world until centuries after the time of Merlin. I think it was just a work of pure fantasy that somehow made it into the Occult section instead of the Fantasy section. It was not a bad read taken with a grain of salt, but it claimed to be far more than it obviously was, with respect to authenticity.

I've been meaning to do that pelen-tan walk in the woods at night one of these days though. Authentic or not, I think it would be an interesting experience. I spend a good bit of time on and around a nature trail near my house, which is my "sacred place," but I have never been there after hours. I haven't spent the night in an unsettled wood by myself in years. Camping trips don't count. Too much farting and snoring going on to hear the sounds of the non-human presence.

[Nantonos]

There is an excellent, detailed, erudite and witty review by Ellen Evert Hopman:
http://www.ceardai.com/OMnGD/21LOM.htm (http://www.ceardai.com/OMnGD/21LOM.htm)

[Sonic Seamus]

The thing that bothers me about this book the most is that it and D.J. Conway is all you'll find on the subject of Druidry in most bookstores, occult shops and witchy store.

I'm glad though that druidry usually involves some scholastic approach so at one time or another a student will come to find the truth for themselves.

[evilslinkycat]

meh, imho I say its fiction.

I have a copy of it somewhere that I bought years ago, I tried to read it but just couldn't bring myself to go past the first few chapters. I'm not a Druid, but I am rather intersted in the subject.

[Dave the Druid]

For some reason I had thought that we had put this stinker (the book) to bed a long time ago but not unlike an old salami that has gone on to meet it's maker it does reappear from time to time.

[wolfchild]

So is the concencus that if one (say myself) hasn't read the book, it is probably not in their best interest to do so now?

[Dave the Druid]

Correct!

[wolfchild]

Thanks!

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Yes, this book is pretty much like a fungal infection...innocuous at first, but you soon find out when you think it's gone, it reoccurs....

[dirgedoll]

I believe that the 21 Lessons of Merlin are as Druidic as Lucky Charms are Irish.

If you want a good Irish texts to read Miranda Green, or Cross and Slover's Celtic Heritage would be a good place to start.

Most books from www.booksforscholars.com (www.booksforscholars.com) would be a safe bet too.

Blessings,

Katherine

I posted this in another forum but I just noticed this Druid one so maybe it's better suited here:

I've been reading tons of different information about the ancient Druids and Celts for several years and I have understood that the 21 Lessons of Merlyn is accepted basically as a work of fiction and does not portray the Druids in a historically accurate way. I just wondered if anyone knows of a good, honest review of this book- one that is by a person with some decent Druidic knowledge- that I could direct a friend to. I wanted him to see that I'm not the only person with these opinions of Monroe's book.
Thanks to anyone who can help.

Astraea

[ShadowDragon999]

Agreed,just because a book mentions Druids doesnt mean its accurate nor has good basis.I do like Myrddyns expression of the action and his thoughts about the book,but eh books for scholars site is very good for academia purposes.

[Twig]

I believe that the 21 Lessons of Merlin are as Druidic as Lucky Charms are Irish.

If you want a good Irish texts to read Miranda Green, or Cross and Slover's Celtic Heritage would be a good place to start.

Most books from www.booksforscholars.com (www.booksforscholars.com) would be a safe bet too.

Blessings,

Katherine


:crylaugh: Lucky Charms! I Love it!

Paece
:elf:

[Meadhbh]

I've read part of it, I really think for the most part its fiction. It seems to me that he takes alot from the victorian druid reviel. When they wore robes, and gathered in the boys club to gloat over their manly druidness. Its okay for a fiction account though.

[Redbranchwarrior]

Its a fun book, its nonsence, but fun. If ya think by reading it you'll be a Druid, nope sorry. It is fun though, it has a great story, some usefull information like most of the shelf books. Is it true Druidism, my thats a loaded question, Druids can't even agree what is true Druidism. My thought, no, but read it anyway.
PS: I think an "other" choice would have been good here.

[Dave the Druid]

At the risk of killing off a majorities favourite bashing item; might it be reasonable to close this thread?

I think there is general agreement that is soundly not a good book for Druids, but beating a dead horse get's tiresome doesn't it?

Just my thoughts really. You do as you like.

[CromanMacNessa]

At the risk of killing off a majorities favourite bashing item; might it be reasonable to close this thread?

I think there is general agreement that is soundly not a good book for Druids, but beating a dead horse get's tiresome doesn't it?

Just my thoughts really. You do as you like.

/|\
Dave,

I have to agree with you.

However, before the thread is closed or archived or whatever, I want to get my two pence in (since I've never posted in this thread that I can recall, but have said things about the book and author in question in other threads here). But I'll keep it short. All I want to say is that I have some comments about this book in my article here:

http://groups.msn.com/CromansGrove/whatisdruidism.msnw (http://groups.msn.com/CromansGrove/whatisdruidism.msnw)

[Dave the Druid]

Greetings CromanMacNessa!

We have not met but I have read much of your thoughts.

[bows]

Peace and Harmony to You.

[flyntfaery]

21 Lessons came highly reccomended by a highly regarded High Druid friend in TX... I respect him very much... I think he intended it for my hubby and I to use it as a starting place and not the end all be all if ya know what I mean....

[Druidess54]

Hello, this reply is more than a bit late (I've not been posting for a long time).
I have both of those Druidic Books from Douglas Monroe. I like the druidic triads because they make sense to me, but I didn't like the sexism in it. He made women sound dark and negative, while the males were made to sound like they are the only sex that reflects light and purity. (something to that effect anyway.) As far as I'm concerned, there were both male and female druids who enjoyed all the privliges of being in the priesthood. I have read books of fiction with the druids as the main attraction (Druids by Morgan Llewelyn) and (The Silver Land by Nancy Harding) that put female druids in the limelight and made the book a great read. Soooooo my vote is that it's a good story but his facts are a bit dodgy and he's living in a fantasy.
Blessings......Druidess54

[SephirothTepes]

I posted this in another forum but I just noticed this Druid one so maybe it's better suited here:

I've been reading tons of different information about the ancient Druids and Celts for several years and I have understood that the 21 Lessons of Merlyn is accepted basically as a work of fiction and does not portray the Druids in a historically accurate way. I just wondered if anyone knows of a good, honest review of this book- one that is by a person with some decent Druidic knowledge- that I could direct a friend to. I wanted him to see that I'm not the only person with these opinions of Monroe's book.
Thanks to anyone who can help.

Astraea

not trying to start anything..but to say one form of durid is wrong..and a nother is right is like saying one form of wiccan is wrong and a nother is right..and that kinda sounds like what the christians are saying about us..... if it feels right in your heart and soul..then sure it is right for that person....we all have diffrent beleives adn stuff..but they form around basic consepts...i have been in diffrent circles in diffrent parts of the USA and i have never been to any that were the same...everything was diffrent everytime...and as far as i am conerned..that book and its lessons...are something more people should live by..then maybe there will be less hostility in the world..and more understanding..even if its not druid..half my family was druid..the other half is wiccan with some christains throughn it to the mix... and that book was something my whole family loved to read and live by..so if it can bring us togther..then who is to say if fiction...maybe its just something..that others haven't seen....but thats just me..

[CromanMacNessa]

not trying to start anything..but to say one form of durid is wrong..and a nother is right is like saying one form of wiccan is wrong and a nother is right..and that kinda sounds like what the christians are saying about us..... if it feels right in your heart and soul..then sure it is right for that person....we all have diffrent beleives adn stuff..but they form around basic consepts...

"Druidism" is not a "build-your-own" religion. It has historical antecedents which cannot be ignored in favour of universalism and ultra-relativism. As cozy as the "everyone is right, noone is wrong" dogma may seem, it's simply wrong. Not everything is just opinion, and contradictions do exist (note that a contradiction indicates that at least one of the statements involved MUST be false). If everyone is right, then someone must be wrong, because some of those "everyones" out there believe that others are wrong, and they're right, as the notion of everyone being right declares, but then they also must be wrong, because they are denying the notion that noone is wrong, but then they can't be wrong, because noone is wrong ... See the nonsense to which this hyper-relativistic dogma leads?

"If it feels good, do it" is not "Druidic" ethics, but hedonism. There is no hint anywhere in the texts or the living Oral Tradition that suggests that the Draoidhean of old were hedonists or encouraged hedonism. In fact, there are many examples of ethical teachings which were promulgated by the ancient Draoidhean which are contrary to hedonism.

as far as i am conerned..that book and its lessons...are something more people should live by..then maybe there will be less hostility in the world..and more understanding..even if its not druid..half my family was druid..the other half is wiccan with some christains throughn it to the mix... and that book was something my whole family loved to read and live by..so if it can bring us togther..then who is to say if fiction...maybe its just something..that others haven't seen....but thats just me..

That book's lessons include claims which are demonstrably false. The claim that women were not and cannot be "Druids" is one such. Another is the claim that the ancient Draoidhean were vegetarians and that Draoidhean today must also be vegetarians. Still another is the claim that the ancient Draoidhean were celibate and that Draoidhean today must also be celibate. None of this is simply what "others haven't seen," it is all contradicted by historical fact.

While there are some interesting original ideas in the book (and note that I said "original," meaning that they have no historical precedent and therefore cannot be claimed to be salient characteristics of a religion which is at least 2500 years old), the blatant rejection of any historical accuracy is enough to render the book useless for anyone who doesn't have the background in the historical studies. Even the titles he gives in his bibliography do not support his claims, and "the book of Pheryllt" is the work of Virgil, the Latin poet, not some mysterious book on "Druidic Alchemy" as he tries to portray it. It, too, does not support his phantasies.

Monroe is not a "Druid." He's a lying profiteer. The overwhelming majority of what is written in his books is not worth the paper it's printed on. This is one of the very few public people who claim to be "Druids" about whom I will make such a statement (as I have said before, if a person is a liar, a sexual predator, or an idiot, I am perfectly willing to issue a statement of judgement of them in this way, publically). He knows where to find me if he wants to defend himself against my judgement, and he has been repeatedly invited to this forum in order to explain himself in regard to the inaccuracies in his first book.

[SephirothTepes]

"Druidism" is not a "build-your-own" religion. It has historical antecedents which cannot be ignored in favour of universalism and ultra-relativism. As cozy as the "everyone is right, noone is wrong" dogma may seem, it's simply wrong. Not everything is just opinion, and contradictions do exist (note that a contradiction indicates that at least one of the statements involved MUST be false). If everyone is right, then someone must be wrong, because some of those "everyones" out there believe that others are wrong, and they're right, as the notion of everyone being right declares, but then they also must be wrong, because they are denying the notion that noone is wrong, but then they can't be wrong, because noone is wrong ... See the nonsense to which this hyper-relativistic dogma leads?

"If it feels good, do it" is not "Druidic" ethics, but hedonism. There is no hint anywhere in the texts or the living Oral Tradition that suggests that the Draoidhean of old were hedonists or encouraged hedonism. In fact, there are many examples of ethical teachings which were promulgated by the ancient Draoidhean which are contrary to hedonism.



That book's lessons include claims which are demonstrably false. The claim that women were not and cannot be "Druids" is one such. Another is the claim that the ancient Draoidhean were vegetarians and that Draoidhean today must also be vegetarians. Still another is the claim that the ancient Draoidhean were celibate and that Draoidhean today must also be celibate. None of this is simply what "others haven't seen," it is all contradicted by historical fact.

While there are some interesting original ideas in the book (and note that I said "original," meaning that they have no historical precedent and therefore cannot be claimed to be salient characteristics of a religion which is at least 2500 years old), the blatant rejection of any historical accuracy is enough to render the book useless for anyone who doesn't have the background in the historical studies. Even the titles he gives in his bibliography do not support his claims, and "the book of Pheryllt" is the work of Virgil, the Latin poet, not some mysterious book on "Druidic Alchemy" as he tries to portray it. It, too, does not support his phantasies.

Monroe is not a "Druid." He's a lying profiteer. The overwhelming majority of what is written in his books is not worth the paper it's printed on. This is one of the very few public people who claim to be "Druids" about whom I will make such a statement (as I have said before, if a person is a liar, a sexual predator, or an idiot, I am perfectly willing to issue a statement of judgement of them in this way, publically). He knows where to find me if he wants to defend himself against my judgement, and he has been repeatedly invited to this forum in order to explain himself in regard to the inaccuracies in his first book.

first off i didn't say everything in that book was right..
..

and what i ment was everyone is diffrent..and what works for me isntwhat works foryou...there are diffrent energies in the world i know for fact that druids beleive that.......the basic consept for the lessons them self is what i ment..i didn't mean the text it self was right and not a damn thing in it is wrong..humans are byist..and will warp everything they write...so you have to read between the lines..and stuff...look at the core aspect of the lessons..not the book as a whole.

[Seamus Donn]

first off i didn't say everything in that book was right..
..

and what i ment was everyone is diffrent..and what works for me isntwhat works foryou...there are diffrent energies in the world i know for fact that druids beleive that.......the basic consept for the lessons them self is what i ment..i didn't mean the text it self was right and not a damn thing in it is wrong..humans are byist..and will warp everything they write...so you have to read between the lines..and stuff...look at the core aspect of the lessons..not the book as a whole.



I doubt that reading in between the lines is gonna make the book any more accurate than reading on them. Everyone may be different but this book is still full of falsehoods and that should matter to everyone.

[SephirothTepes]

I doubt that reading in between the lines is gonna make the book any more accurate than reading on them. Everyone may be different but this book is still full of falsehoods and that should matter to everyone.


ok..i know that not everything in the book is accurate or of good taste ...i know 90% of it is shit..all i ment is the lessons them selves..the core wording of the lesson..and what it offers is good..thats it..thats all i ever read of it anywas..i didn't care for the stories in it..

[Twig]

"If it feels good, do it" is not "Druidic" ethics, but hedonism.

Aye Brother. I would imagine they would have to have been of the highset moral fibre. I can remember something about multiple wives (I think) but we don't have have that option so its a moot point. No offense to the ladies.

What kind of standards today that are accepted is well reported throughout the net, and everyone I have talked with has just that, high moral standards...much higher than the populus at large expects as a norm. ;)

Peace

[Alaiyo]

I find it an entertaining read and while there are useful things to be taken from it, I don't believe that th