um... background?

[bananabrain]

mol, revelation -

if you don't mind me asking, where have you learnt what you know about kabbalah? i ask only because there is an awful lot of stuff out there that describes itself as kabbalah, much of which is absolute rubbish - and one should define one's terms carefully especially in this area, which is supremely language-dependent. in order to gain anything out of the study of kabbalah (as distinct from its practice) you will require at least a familiarity with the hebrew and aramaic languages and their grammar, because much of the basis of kabbalah is founded upon the qualities of hebrew letters and vowels. the sefer yetzirah is a case in point. furthermore, kabbalah at least in terms of its normative development is based upon texts which are mystical interpretations of the Torah - without an understanding of traditional methods of Torah study and principles (ie Talmudic commentary) it is the equivalent of trying to fly a jumbo jet without having passed your driving test.

please be aware that i am not trying to say "don't do this", but rather "if you must do this, try and do it in the right way". the traditional restrictions on 'kabbalah' must be understood in context. firstly, there is a BIG difference between learning ABOUT kabbalah and actually, if you like, doing kabbalistic things. the former is perfectly possible with the right reading list (which i can certainly help you with) but the latter requires one-to-one instruction from an expert, which i am not, although i do know people who are. secondly, you must distinguish between kabbalah as an umbrella term for the jewish mystical tradition (and there are various strands - if you don't know how it all fits together it is MASSIVELY confusing) and kabbalah as it relates to other mystical systems such as sufism, tantra and so on. thirdly, you must distinguish between 'hermetic' kabbalah as practiced by the golden dawn, for example, which i have a great deal of respect for but is intended for the initiated only, although not restricted to jews - and the kabbalistic rituals that are bound up in the cycle of every religiously observant jew's daily life, albeit sometimes very well hidden indeed. true jewish master kabbalists are fairly few and far between - one of my teachers was taught by one in jerusalem, but generally speaking you are talking about people that do not advertise themselves. in particular, organisations such as the so-called 'kabbalah learning centre' as popularised by such spiritual luminaries as madonna and mick jagger, have an incredibly bad, even cultish reputation in the jewish community. the point i am trying to make is that this stuff is a) difficult and b) potentially dangerous. that is why you are supposed to be a mature adult with a lot of background knowledge, experience and grounding before you start to apply it. that is what the age restriction is about: traditionally, it is only men that have an *obligation* to study, although this has in many cases turned into a restriction for cultural reasons (and because a lot of the people who really know kabbalah are also very very strictly observant) but , although oft-quoted, women now study Torah and Talmud as a matter of course, even in strictly orthodox communities. the restriction is also because it is expected that you will not start your initiation into kabbalistic mysteries, if at all, without a hell of a lot of Torah and Talmud under your belt - it is the equivalent of post-doctoral study - and what with the sheer volume of preliminary study and also earning a living it is expected generally that you will not reach this level of maturity until the age of 40.

if you want my honest opinion, to begin discussions about these matters you should at least have read something like gershom scholem's 'major trends in jewish mysticism', which is generally held to be the masterwork for those unfamiliar with the territory, although he's not exactly the final word on the subject! once you have read that, you should be familiar with the following concepts:

1. the vision of the merkavah
2. heichalot mysticism
3. the tree of life and the sefirot
4. the 32 paths of wisdom
5. the transmigration of souls
6. the four worlds
7. the five levels of the soul
8. the PaRDeS
9. the shi'ur qomah
10. gematria
11. temurah
12. the exile of the shechinah
13. the partzufim
14. the four worlds

you should also know the following major figures, in no particular order: isaac the blind, moshe de leon, abraham abulafia, the ARIZa"L, the RaMa"K, the BeSh"T, the MaHaRaL, akiva, elisha ben abuya, shimon bar yochai, shabbatai tzvi and nathan of gaza - not to mention aryeh kaplan z"l - and history of the following source texts: the bahir, the zohar, the sefer yetzirah, the shi'ur qomah, the mishnah, the gemara, plus a certain amount about the structure of TaNaKH.

all the best

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Revelation]

Bananabrain:

I think that fundamentally you have made some very strong points, which I think should be addressed. However, I would like to clarify one thing before I continue:

I think there is a difference between learning about Kabbalah for the specific purpose of enhancing one's own spiritual path and adding depth and perspective to a personal insight about God, and studying Kabbalah with the intent to apply its teachings to the end of, say, creationg a golem, or attempting knowldge of the holy guardian angel, as in the GD system.

To know the ways of others is to better understand oneself. If I look blindly down my own path and ignore the other avenues, then I stunt my own growth, and out unnecessary limits on my spiritual unfolding. To that end, the study of Kabbalah is necessary for my personal growth. Within the stidy of this sytem, I have given myself unlimited room for growth, stimulation, quandry, and independent thought. THere are few spiritual systems in the world that I personally find as intriguing as the study of the Kabbalistic system.

It was never my intention (I cannot speak for Mol) to teach applications of Kabbala. I couldn't if I wanted to. I have neither the skills nor the desire. In fact, I would say that it was never my intention to "teach" anyone anything, as I myself am but a beginner on this path. I consider this an opportunity to share my interpretations and experiences, and hopefully be presented with questions I cannot answer, so that I might be challenged and encouraged to seek the answers. For me, it is not much more than a variation of chevruta.

Your opinion that one needs to have certain texts before beginning to discuss Kabbalah intrigues me. One does need t obegin somewhere, and seeing as how this discussion began merely as a tool to encourage people to study and discover for themselves, I see no reason to look down upon the sharing and exchaning of information about the subject.

I myself have read the SY, most of the Bahir, and the history relating to the Zohar. Am I qualified to "teach Kabbalah" ? Hardly. Am I qualified to share my understanding of the subject, as an earnest and honest seeker of truth, hoping that the divine light really will shine through and show the way? Yes, I think so.

I take issue with almost nothing you have said. However, I would ask that if you find something false or misleading in anything I myself have said, please indicate so. Chevruta only works if one is challenged. It does little good to ask questions that put one needlessly on the defensive, and therefore I will not become defenseive, as I have nothing to defend.

I can only offer you my insight, and in so doing, I open myself up to scrutiny. Do you think that is easy for someone who does not claim to be an "expert?" It is never easy to be crticised, even for the best of intentions. Neverthelss, I do this, because it is how I grow.

You ask where I learned what I know. I almost cannot answer that question, any more than I could tell you how I learned what I know of God. I have been very blessed to have very dear friends who I respect who have departed their wisdom to me, challenging my views, opening my mind. I have read the words of Kaplan and Cooper, I have opened myself to the study of the mishnah, and I commit myself to the development of an understanding of both Judaism and Hebrew. I do not claim "knowledge". I can only claim integrity and humility.

Before you,

[bananabrain]

there is a difference between learning about Kabbalah for the specific purpose of enhancing one's own spiritual path and adding depth and perspective to a personal insight about God, and studying Kabbalah with the intent to apply its teachings to the end of, say, creating a golem, or attempting knowledge of the holy guardian angel, as in the GD system.

i agree. this is the difference between practical and theoretical kabbalah. theoretical kabbalah is in the public domain now and has been since the middle of the last century, largely due to gershon scholem. practical kabbalah, on the other hand, has continued much as it has done since the late 17th century, passed on (MeKuBaL) from teacher to pupil, as implied by the name KaBaLaH, 'received'. however, organisations such as the 'kabbalah learning centre' claim to teach practical kabbalah, even though they have been publicly repudiated and condemned by the school of the acknowledged master rav ashlag, whose mantle 'rabbi' berg claims to have inherited (although it seems to me he has a lot more in common with 'uncle al' in more ways than one). so, obviously, you see the problem and you see the distinction. i just needed to know that you knew!

i should tell you that my comments should be unless specifically stated otherwise taken to refer to the jewish end of things - my knowledge of the hermetic/GD end of things has been gained fairly recently, but my sources have shown considerable respect for both the jewishness of kabbalah and the importance of hebrew. as far as i myself am concerned, i'm a practicing, traditionally observant jew who, apart from the politics of the label, it would not be problematic to describe as 'orthodox' - unless you happen to be my mum! in terms of kabbalah, i have done a certain amount of reading as well as a certain amount of study with knowledgeable rabbis that are working within this tradition, although my practical application is strictly restricted to that which is already contained within traditional prescribed liturgy and ritual observance, like the counting of the omer. i have not chosen to seek a guide, although i do know where to start if i end up doing so whether or not i choose to wait until i am 40 - although in order to make it worthwhile i think i'd have to study a helluva lot more.


Within the stidy of this sytem, I have given myself unlimited room for growth, stimulation, quandry, and independent thought.

that's a good attitude to take, although self-limitation (hah, a lurianic pun!) is equally important. likewise, chevruta is a valuable paradigm.


Your opinion that one needs to have certain texts before beginning to discuss Kabbalah intrigues me. One does need to begin somewhere, and [...] I see no reason to look down upon the sharing and exchanging of information about the subject.

i don't look down upon it. however, there is no substitute for books - not even the web. i've seen a lot of bollocks on the web - not that there aren't a lot of books full of rubbish (ever come across the 'alphabet of ben sira'? pheuwww) - but there are certain books that are guaranteed to be a good start. i understand you're a physicist? obviously, there will be things in kaplan's writings that make more sense to you than they do to me, although fortunately i now understand all that stuff about 5D hypercubes. (i have a friend who is both jewishly learned and a physics PhD who i can ask when i get stuck!) but even so, sefer yetzirah is not a beginner's text, even with kaplan's commentary.

you should also appreciate where he is coming from - aside from having a physics PhD he was also an orthodox rabbi living a traditional jewish life with all that that entails, writing for a jewish audience. as a result of the quality of his scholarship in all fields, not only jewish, he is regarded as unquestionably 'kosher' by all authorities, which is a rare thing. i have made my own enquiries (i have a friend that knew him and has confirmed much of what has been said) and my fiancée, who used to know his daughter, has done likewise. not all his work was on kabbalah, of course - but general opinion seems to hold that he was 'called back' at an early age for reasons we are not privy too. however, his teachings are pretty much indispensable these days for anyone that wants to delve into the mystical levels of judaism in an experiential fashion.

as a learning strategy, however, i do recommend an overview before plunging into esoteric texts. although i have had considerable success with the SY, i never go near the zohar or the bahir without a teacher and even then in small bits (in contrast to those charlatans at the KLC who will sell you an entire set even if you can't read hebrew and tell you to 'absorb' it by some specious spiritual osmosis, by just looking at a page every so often). jewishly speaking, it's post-doctoral level. i think you've got a really good attitude, but i do encourage you to start with scholem's MTIJM, because it covers all the stuff you're going to need to know to get started in a non-judgemental, critically detached and intellectually honest fashion - even if he is a bit of a yekke (ferry cherman, zis is meanink) plus these concepts that i forgot in the list in my last post -

15. tzimtzum
16. the breaking of the vessels
17. tikkun
18. adam kadmon

i am not trying to put you off - all i am saying is that in terms of kabbalah, you are dealing with the level of PaRDeS known as 'SOD' - secret or hidden. therefore, it is likely that the divine light will *not* shine through unless you have a teacher, not that i am offering my services, as i am not qualified! i'm just trying to help/challenge, which as you are aware is very much in the spirit of chevruta.


You ask where I learned what I know. I almost cannot answer that question, any more than I could tell you how I learned what I know of God. I have been very blessed to have very dear friends who I respect who have departed their wisdom to me, challenging my views, opening my mind.

then that is 'mekubal' to a certain extent. the reason i ask is because in my own experience i am constantly held up by the fact that a) my hebrew is not terribly good b) my aramaic is terrible c) my knowledge of Torah leaves much to be desired and d) my knowledge of Talmud leaves even more. that's why i ask what you know of these four, because without 'em, you're going to be held up too. that's very different from asking how you know what you know of the Divine - i wouldn't dream of asking you that, really - privacy of experience, dontcherknow. however, it is my experience that this stuff is most meaningful when learned in tandem with an appreciation of normative jewish life and belief - and that at least i can certainly point you in some of the right directions. (incidentally - don't mistake this for a conversion attempt - we're not permitted to do so, quite apart from the fact that i think it's rude!) but studying mishnah and gemara will certainly help. definitely definitely. the place to start is tractate hagigah 14b in the talmud:



Our rabbis taught: Four entered the 'Garden' [PaRDeS], namely, Ben Azzai, Ben Zoma, Acher, and Rabbi Akiva. Rabbi Akiva said to them, When you arrive at the stones of pure marble, do not say 'Water, water!' For it is said, 'Whoever speaks falsely shall not be established before My eyes' (Psalm 101:7). Ben Azzai took a look and died. Of him Scripture says 'Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of His righteous ones' (Psalm 116:15). Ben Zoma looked and was stricken [mad]. Of him Scripture says 'Have you found honey? Eat as much as is sufficient for you, lest you be filled with it and vomit it out' (Proverbs 25:16). Acher mutilated the shoots. Rabbi Akiva departed unharmed.

b'shalom

bananabrain

btw - cooper? doesn't ring a bell - give me a clue?

[random]

Originally posted by bananabrain
(hah, a lurianic pun!)

Gee, i hate to intrude here. But, I could not find any definition on lurianic. Could you, or anyone, tell me it's meaning?

[Revelation]

Rabbi Isaac Luria was the first to extrapolate in detail upon the idea of "tzimtzum", or the divine contraction, in, I believe, the Zohar.

Heh, I think it's a pun only Bananabrain and I would have gotten ;) (nudges Bananabrain).

[Illyandra]

Hey bananabrain!! Thanks for the helpful list!! Join in more, I'm sure what insights you have would be more than welcome here!!

And of course the luriatic pun reference went WAY WAY over my head!!:p

[bananabrain]

lurianic - pertaining to rabbi isaac luria, also known as the ARIZ"AL, which is an acrostic that stands for the Holy Rabbi Isaac or ARI, a word which also means 'lion'. consequently he's also sometimes known as the 'AR"I'. the Z"L bit is an honorific acrostic for the common hebrew phrase that roughly translates as 'May-His-Memory-Be-For-A-Blessing'. there are a lot of variations on these honorifics depending on the religious standing of the person, whether they're dead and various other things. however, the AR"I is the only rabbi that has ever been given the Alef ('holy')prefix...

incidentally, the RaMa"K is Rabbi Moses Cordovero, the BeSh"T is Rabbi Israel the Ba'al Shem Tov, founder of chassidism (most of those lads with the black hats come under this heading) and the MaHaRaL is Moreinu (our teacher) Ha-Rav (Rabbi) Loew of prague, the famous golem-maker. there are scores of other rabbis with these nicknames, like the RaMBaM, RaMBaN, RaLBaG, RaDBaZ, RaShI, RaShBa, ReMA and so on, who may pop up from time, but ask if you want to know. most of the acrostic guys are mediaeval authorities as opposed to Talmudic authorities like shimon bar yochai and rabbi akiva.

and yes, the AR"I is terribly important. he's responsible for the revolution in kabbalistic thought that comes about in the C16th.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[random]

well, thank you for clearing that up... I was a little... confused.