What's your favorite thing about Wicca?

[Crystal_Raye]

I just wanted to know why everyone enjoys the Wiccan religion.

[Ben Trismegistus]

My favorite thing is that it's a hands-on, participatory religion. As opposed to most "organized" religions, in which you basically sit in the audience while somebody else actually interacts with the Divine, I love that in Wicca it's an entirely personal experience.

As a friend of mine puts it, "Wicca is a religion of clergy."

[VelvetBlade]

My favorite thing is that it's a hands-on, participatory religion. As opposed to most "organized" religions, in which you basically sit in the audience while somebody else actually interacts with the Divine, I love that in Wicca it's an entirely personal experience.

As a friend of mine puts it, "Wicca is a religion of clergy."

Now Ben,

That's so not true...I'm sure you know as well as I do that in every catholic mass you go to...participation is not only encouraged, but expected....every time they pass the collection plate.....lol

~AW

[Toad]

My favorite thing is that it's a hands-on, participatory religion. As opposed to most "organized" religions, in which you basically sit in the audience while somebody else actually interacts with the Divine, I love that in Wicca it's an entirely personal experience.

As a friend of mine puts it, "Wicca is a religion of clergy."

Ben -

Not trying to derail here...just curious as to your thoughts. Couldnt your definition be applied to most Pagan paths? ;-)

[Brenners]

Well I'm still learning about Wicca and you wanna know my fave part of it so far? The fact that when you investigate, you can get down to the truth. If something doesn't make sense to you, search hard enough, and you'll find an answer and hell, the answer might not satisfy you, but at least you'll have one.

You don't know how many times I'd argue with the priest over something in the bible and neither of us would ever end up anywhere near a real, sensible answer. We were always spinning in circles! Or maybe that is unfair of me to say, but I suppose that's just coming from my own personal experiences.

:)

[Earth_kissed]

out of curiosity, what is the differance between Pagan and Wiccan to you all? There is a definate differance to me but I want to know what you all think.

[Brenners]

Well I think Wicca is a Pagan religion. I think any religion not belonging to the Abrahmic faiths is considered Pagan, is it not? I've always understood it to be this way, correct me if I'm wrong.

:)

[Crystal_Raye]

out of curiosity, what is the differance between Pagan and Wiccan to you all? There is a definate differance to me but I want to know what you all think.

Paganism is the name given for a very large group of religions that are not Christian, Islamic, or Jewish. Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Taoism, Shamanism, and Wicca are all Pagan religions. So all Wiccans are Pagans but not all Pagans are Wiccans.

[Rain Gnosis]

Wicca enables one to connect with the immanent Divine as the God, Goddess, and in nature, as well as within oneself and others. That's what makes it important to me - there are a few religions and systems I look to for research, knowledge, info, myth, history, and magic, and Wicca is the one that offers that immanent connection with the Divine to me that I don't find with others.

[Earth_kissed]

Nowadays, the term pagan has become almost synonymous with devil worship - a gross misconception. the world's roots actually reached back to the latin paganus, meaning country-dwellers. "Pagans" were literally unindoctrinated country-folk who clung to the old, rural religions of Nature Worship. In fact, so strong was the church's fear of those who lived in the rural villes that the once innocuous word for "villager" ---villian--- came to mean a wicked soul.

the Pagans envisioned their world in two halves---masculine and feminine. Their Gods and Goddesses worked to keep balance of power. Yin and Yang. when male and female were balanced, there was harmony in the world. when they were unbalanced, there was chaos.

This is why in many ways I like to think I'm a paga, because I feel there is Chaos in the world, because in most modern religions, the Masculine is weighed much higher then the feminine, and they are not balanced! The Wiccans show much faith in the Feminine side of things because the use pentacle. this Pentacle is representative of the female half of things -- a concept religious historians call the 'sacred feminine' or the 'divine goddess'. in is most specific interppretation, the pentacle symbolizes Venus, the goddess of of female sexual love and beauty

I do not know much about Wiccan. but I believe they are differant. I agree that wiccan came from pagan however.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Not trying to derail here...just curious as to your thoughts. Couldnt your definition be applied to most Pagan paths? ;-)

Well, yeah, but the thread isn't "What's your favorite thing about paganism" ;)


Well I think Wicca is a Pagan religion. I think any religion not belonging to the Abrahmic faiths is considered Pagan, is it not? I've always understood it to be this way, correct me if I'm wrong.

That's *technically* correct, but I don't like that definition because it defines paganism purely by what it's NOT. Unfortunately, we haven't managed to come up with a better definition (check out the "Paganism Defined!" thread over in New Pagans).

But yes, Wicca is one religion in the Pagan family of religions. What sets it apart is that it follows a set of guidelines and rituals set up by Gerald Gardner in the 30s, and improved and expanded by his followers over the next few decades.

[Ben Trismegistus]

The Wiccans show much faith in the Feminine side of things because the use pentacle. this Pentacle is representative of the female half of things -- a concept religious historians call the 'sacred feminine' or the 'divine goddess'. in is most specific interppretation, the pentacle symbolizes Venus, the goddess of of female sexual love and beauty

I don't want to give you a hard time, but I do want to tell you that the pentacle is not a representation of the sacred feminine. It's a representation of the five elements (air, earth, fire, water, spirit), and is therefore genderless.

There are representations of both the sacred masculine and feminine, but they tend to be pretty balanced.

Some info on pentacles:

http://lynnrockwell.com/wicca/History-P.html

http://wicca.timerift.net/pentagram.html

[Rain Gnosis]

Unfortunately, we haven't managed to come up with a better definition (check out the "Paganism Defined!" thread over in New Pagans).

Just a note - I was just looking for that thread 5 minutes ago and it appears to have been toasted in the MW upgrade too.

[Rain Gnosis]

the Pagans envisioned their world in two halves---masculine and feminine.

Uh, and I also don't mean to upset you, but Pagans don't envision their world in halves necessarily either. The Greeks and Ancient Egyptians and probably the Norse, at least, didn't seek to balance masculine and feminine. The Egyptians, for instance, saw order and chaos rather then masculine and feminine as the basis of their spirituality.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Just a note - I was just looking for that thread 5 minutes ago and it appears to have been toasted in the MW upgrade too.

Bummer. We must've lost all the "stuck" threads.

[Earth_kissed]

argue with me all you want I get my info from the books "the da vinci code", "holy blood, holy grail" "the Daughter of god" "the woman with the alabaster: Mary Magdalen and the Holy Grail" and "the Goddess in teh Gospels: Reclaiming the sacred Feminine" accually my post earlier was a partially made of quotes from the da vinci code!!

[Brenners]

Isnt' the Da Vinci code just a fiction book based on a conspiracy theory?

[Earth_kissed]

I don't want to give you a hard time, but I do want to tell you that the pentacle is not a representation of the sacred feminine. It's a representation of the five elements (air, earth, fire, water, spirit), and is therefore genderless.

There are representations of both the sacred masculine and feminine, but they tend to be pretty balanced.

Some info on pentacles:

http://lynnrockwell.com/wicca/History-P.html

http://wicca.timerift.net/pentagram.html

my views on the symbology of the pentacle, are one of many!!! there is no need to argue the oragin of the symbol because it many meanings. it is also considered the most beautiful symbol to mathmatitions because it uses a perfect Fibbonacci sequence and uses the divine proportion used in all of nature known simply as Phi!!

[Earth_kissed]

Isnt' the Da Vinci code just a fiction book based on a conspiracy theory?

It's a fictional book based on FACT!! in the very first page of the book it says exactly that any information in this book about symbols, pieces of art, the priory of sion. not to mention all descriptions of architecture, documents, and secret rituals are accurate!!

[Ben Trismegistus]

my views on the symbology of the pentacle, are one of many!!! there is no need to argue the oragin of the symbol because it many meanings. it is also considered the most beautiful symbol to mathmatitions because it uses a perfect Fibbonacci sequence and uses the divine proportion used in all of nature known simply as Phi!!

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but you should know that the symbology *Pagans* use for the pentagram is the one I stated above.

And I just want to caution you -- I know you're excited about the DaVinci Code, but be careful about presenting that stuff as fact. I read a book last year called "The Hiram Key", which traced the origins of modern esotericism back through Jesus and the Essenes to the ancient Egyptians. I was walking around for months quoting from that book to anyone who would listen, until another friend of mine pointed out that much of the scholarship in that book was questionable, and had actually been disproven in other, more respected books. I was chagrined, to say the least.

[Rain Gnosis]

As usual, fact is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

[Rain Gnosis]

and had actually been disproven in other, more respected books. I was chagrined, to say the least.

I just watched Men in Black yesterday. You know that part where he mentions 1500 years ago we knew the sun orbitted the earth, 500 years ago we knew the earth was flat, just imagine what we'll know tomorrow? That's what I find. I try not to "know" anything anymore.

[Brenners]

I was walking around for months quoting from that book to anyone who would listen, until another friend of mine pointed out that much of the scholarship in that book was questionable, and had actually been disproven in other, more respected books.

Ben, for the sake of my own curiosity and giving Earth_kissed a hand with the correct information, do you have any book recommendations?

Thanks!

:D

[Ben Trismegistus]

What sorts of books? I haven't read the DaVinci Code (it's on my list), but I was just cautioning Earth_kissed about presenting any one book as gospel.

As far as a figure like Mary Magdelene is concerned, all the information that exists is theory and conjecture, so it's impossible to say what's true or not. One book about Mary Magdelene that is especially good (and entirely fictional) is Clysta Kinstler's The Moon Under Her Feet, which presents Mary Magdelene as a priestess of the Goddess. It's a good read.

For other fictional accounts of religious and esoteric conspiracy theories, I highly recommend Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum, and Katherine Neville'sThe Eight and The Magic Circle.

[Earth_kissed]

I realize that my thoughts about most things cannot be proven. such as mary being maried to jesus, but meaning of symbols is not really fact or fiction, it's opinion, and many cultures have differant views and uses on differant symbols, it really more matters the enviroment of the symbol. I mean the Pentagram is definatly on the american flag and is not considered goddess or pagan, just a symbol of.....well to be honest I don't know what the stars on the flag symbolize.

::grins:: somthing new to look up.

anyway, there are certain things that are never certain. but things like 2+2 will ALWAYS equal 4. No matter who your talking to. but things like symbols will always be disagreed apon, to it's best to agree to disagree

[Eeluna]

This is a fascinating discussion. Ben here is a direct quote from one of the links you provided:

http://lynnrockwell.com/wicca/History-P.html

"For some it represents feminine energy relating to the Goddess". That's a great link by the way. Thanks for providing it.

I know that the pentagram is most commonly said to represent the four elements plus spirit, but I've also read that it represents many different things. This is something I've been thinking about for a while.

I'm not an expert, and I still have a lot to learn, but this discussion has clarified some of my thoughts on the pentagram. The symbol, at first, was uncomfortable for me. The only exposure I'd had to it was from the media where it is always represented in an extremely negative way. Over the years I have grown to love it.

Some people say the symbol originated from the design at the center of the apple. I find this to be quite a reasonable conjecture. Apples were sacred to our ancestors. I believe they represented rebirth, love, the sweetness of life, etc. Since the apple is considered feminine, I don't find it too hard to think that maybe the pentagram was originally was a symbol of the Goddess.

To me the pentagram represents the Divine which is actually neither male nor female, but can be both or either. It also represents the four elements, the physical and spiritual, the Earth and the Universe. In fact I think it represents the All to me. It smbolizes this amazing Universe, and the fact that it is Divine, that I am a part of this Divinity and that love and beauty are an inherent part of existence. For me it symbolizes the wonder and joy of life and my connection to the Divine.

So even though a Pagan can say that the pentacle/pentagram represents the four elements and spirit, that is not its whole meaning. That is perhaps its most basic meaning. There are layers and shades within the symbol that may reveal themselves upon further study.

[wickedlizard]

i like the bits about "nature".

like herbal medicine,

um, divination, mostly tarot.

but I don´t consider myself Wiccan, but, close enough.

[Rain Gnosis]

Some people say the symbol originated from the design at the center of the apple. I find this to be quite a reasonable conjecture. Apples were sacred to our ancestors.

Apples were a Celtic symbol of Avalon and the Sovereign Goddess, and thus the Divine feminine.

So, in a Wiccan context a pent represents the 5 elements. In other contexts it represents other things. I think Ben could've substitute "Wiccan" for "Pagan" to have made that clearer.

But, c'est la vie. It's neither here nor there :)

[indigo rain]

The Greeks and Ancient Egyptians and probably the Norse, at least, didn't seek to balance masculine and feminine. The Egyptians, for instance, saw order and chaos rather then masculine and feminine as the basis of their spirituality.

okay, but aren't order and chaos simply characteristics of the feminine and masculine, respectively? for example, in qabala where you have on the left the pillar of severity and form, which sounds like order to me, and on the right the pillar of mercy and force, which sounds like chaos. i think different people call it different things, but i find most, and note that i say most, not all, pagan religions seek to balance the feminine and masculine properties.