Personal Gain!?

[RubyRose]

Okay, what is personal gain and how do you know if the spell you are going to undertake attracts personal gain?
Anybody? Help is muchly appreciated.

[DanuMoonrunner]

Well.. To me the personal gain provision goes hand in hand with the For need not greed provision. For example, if my husband needs a new project to bring in the monthly income, I feel like I can do a prosperity or employment spell. However, if I just want some new clothes, or the money to get hooked to the internet, that's personal gain and tabu. I don't know how anyone else feels, tho 'cause I've been a hermit too long. :elf:

[Aidron]

I have honestly yet to hear the phrase 'personal gain' anywhere, in any book, from any witch or pagan, except on the show Charmed.

There it is about them working magick to improve their own lives and/or to gain things (anything) through magick. If they do not obey this rule, backlashes will follow (which could be considered karmic on the show.)

Personally, I find the very idea of that ludicrous. Magick, like many other skills, should be used to improve your life, and everyone else's, in a positive way. So, I scoff at personal gain, cause I find it quite silly.

I believe that everyone deserves to live a happy, positive, and harmonious life, and there is nothing wrong with desiring things. Granted, you should not get all caught up in your desires, and should realize you cannot have everything you wish, but the very idea that we are not entitled to use all our skills necessary to bring about positive manifestations... well, not to be redundant, but like I said, it seems silly.

[Morrighana]

What Raven said. :thumbsup:

[RubyRose]

Thanks Raven WindSong

I asked simply because it was brought up in a previous thread of mine.

[Rain Gnosis]

I'm lost, maybe 'cause I don't watch charmed. Wouldn't almost every spell be cast at least in part for personal gain? Even when you heal someone you love, for example, it's partly because you love them and want them to be happy and have them around to spend time with you. I do think personal gain shouldn't be at the result of harming others if at all possible, but I also think everyone deserves to be happy.

[LuvableFaerie]

Definitely with Raven on this. I love Charmed btw, but it is fiction and since there was magick, it has been done to advance one's position in life. The only caution I would make on this topic is to say that spells should be carefully written so that your gain is not someone else's loss... for that I believe there would be karma backlash... IMO anyway.

[Heathen Dawn]

The law against using manipulative spells seems to be a Wiccan innovation. If you go back to the old spell-books, such as The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage or the Arcana Goetia, you'll find that they are full of manipulative spells: love spells (including spells to dissolve a marriage), invisibility spells, spells for changing the course of nature and many other items of purely personal gain.

[Aidron]

The law against using manipulative spells seems to be a Wiccan innovation. If you go back to the old spell-books, such as The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage or the Arcana Goetia, you'll find that they are full of manipulative spells: love spells (including spells to dissolve a marriage), invisibility spells, spells for changing the course of nature and many other items of purely personal gain.


I would not consider invisibility personal gain, even if I did garner it any sort of logical foundation.


Gypsy traditions often include magickal practices to obtain the love of another or cause (mis)fortune for another, just to point that out as well with what you are saying.

[Skrette]

I would not consider invisibility personal gain, even if I did garner it any sort of logical foundation.


Well that dependes on how you look, doesn't it, there are mornings where the guy I see in the mirror would attain considerable personal gain from being invisible :smile:

[Rae ShadowWolf]

I can so see personal gain coming from Invisibility. Just to put one spin on it. Say you are a victim of abuse, and you are trying to keep yourself hidden, you cast an invisibility spell. It won't make you disappear, but shroud you, like a cloak, unscryable. Isn't that personal gain in a way? To make yourself "unnoticed, therefore invisible"?

[Aidron]

I still disagree. Invisibility in and of itself I cannot see affecting personal gain in anyway. It is how you would use it, which would determine if there was personal gain involved, if even such a ludicrous concept were to be given any heed.

If you are using invisibility or shrouding magicks defensively, to avoid a type of abuse, I truly could not fathom that involving any sort of personal gain, as you are simply be defensive. The person causing the abuse is the one aiming for personal gain, to abuse you and thus make themself feel better in one way or another.

[Theres]

...However, if I just want some new clothes, or the money to get hooked to the internet, that's personal gain and tabu.

why is that taboo? why can't personal gain be a goal of magick?
as long as doing so harms none, i see no reason why a spell can't be used to make you filthy rich.
there is nothing in Wicca that i've ever read that says magick must only be used altruistically.

[Aidron]

why is that taboo? why can't personal gain be a goal of magick?
as long as doing so harms none, i see no reason why a spell can't be used to make you filthy rich.
there is nothing in Wicca that i've ever read that says magick must only be used altruistically.


And according to other paths there is nothing that says a spell should not harm anyone.

What we're getting into here is religious semantics, which has no true solution or easy definition.

[Rain Gnosis]

I can so see personal gain coming from Invisibility.

Well I agree - your gain is going unnoticed. It has certainly been my gain at times not to be seen :)

And just because someone's commented invisibility spells are ludicrous, I'll point out I've successfully done them and I know others have as well. Though the effect is not so much "invisible" as "dim" - kind of like camouflage. It can actually be done as a type of magical shielding.

[Theres]

And according to other paths there is nothing that says a spell should not harm anyone.

What we're getting into here is religious semantics, which has no true solution or easy definition.

okay then, it's semantics. but what Pagan path dictates that personal gain is taboo? where is that written?

[Ben Trismegistus]

okay then, it's semantics. but what Pagan path dictates that personal gain is taboo? where is that written?

You said it before I had a chance to. But I'll repeat it in case there are some people who missed it.

To the best of my knowledge, there is not a single magical tradition which prohibits or even discourages using magic for "personal gain". This is a misconception generated by "Charmed", which is FICTION.

In fact, I would say that virtually every bit of magic we work has an element of personal gain. Prosperity, happiness, success, health - there's almost no magical intent that isn't for the purpose of personal gain. Otherwise, why bother?