Dragons

[mol]

Hm. Not quite sure if this is the right place to ask this, bt I will give it a shot. If dragons existed, why have they not uncovered any fossils? Or have they and perhaps I am just not as well read on the subject. Any info would be appreciated.

[Hamelyn]

Well, it's my opinion that they have. I'm not sure what it's called, but they uncovered some fossils of these small bird-like, four-winged critters in china. They glided from tree to tree, they think, like a flying squirrel might.

I'm not insanely well-researched on the topic of oriental dragons, but I know that the motif (in females, at least) includes long, feathered, four-limbed serpenty-like things. Now, comparing trends of evolution... things were either getting bigger or smaller in that time. So either millions of years before this critter lived it was a LOT bigger... and the fossils would be fossil fuels by now... or the Chinese somehow knew the trent this critter would eventually become. If you wanted to stretch it, some of those dragons could have been ghosts of what was or the potential of the species.

But I use a lot of hodge-podged pseudoscience. *winks* Hope this helps stimulate da brain a bit, though.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

Well, one theory on this is that the Dragons had a "graveyard", kind of like the Elephants, secluded and only know to them by either racial memory or some form of communication between them. This could explain it, merely that we haven't found it yet. For all our sattelites and global mapping, there are still places on the planet we still have yet to discover.

Yet another tale has Dragons diving into volcanoes to die, which would account for not finding evidence. And even if a few never made it to the volcanoes, well, a lot of ground to unearth to find just a few fossils.

In truth, how do we really know that fossils of such creatures haven't been found? Many a thing is covered up by our dear scientific community.

As well, with Dragons having to be so large, there bones would have been more avian-like than reptile (hollow). Would such large, froagile things have been able to hold up over time?

And yes, Mol, with the Celts and Druids being so "connected" to Dragons (especially believing that all of Creation IS one big Dragon) this was very much so the appropriate place to post.

(besides! you are site God! Thou shalt posteth wherever thy chooseth!) :hailmol:

Myrddyn Emrys

[mol]

Thanks to both of you! The graveyard theory is a good one, but it wouldnt explain the complete lack of fossils found. After all, it would be impossible to say that every dragon died and then was buried. Who would have buried the last one?

I have never heard the volcanoe theory...while romantic, it doesn't seem plausible.

It is possible that some of our unconnected fossils at this time could be dragon bones, but it amazes me that this creature remains so hidden historically if it indeed existed.

As far as *when* the dragons were around...I dunno. There sure were a lot of myth in stemming from medieval times. Too many to dismiss in my opinion.

[Traz Heart]

when he talks about a dragon graveyard Mol he meens a place were they go to die not a place were they are burried.



A secluded island or something. Or a volcano as said before.

[mol]

when he talks about a dragon graveyard Mol he meens a place were they go to die not a place were they are burried.



A secluded island or something. Or a volcano as said before.
Either way, you would think some bones would have been recovered by now.

[FeatherGoblinglimmer]

http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/smilies2/tv.gif (http://www.mysticwicks.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies#)Maybe they have and they have been classified somewhere as just another dinosaur.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

One would presume, but, like I said, there is still a lot of the Earth's surface that we haven't explored.

Myrddyn Emrys

[banondraig]

Either way, you would think some bones would have been recovered by now.

you would think some bones would have been recovered, but if there was a "dragon graveyard", it could have been in the parts of the world where plates are slipping back into the earth's mantle and melting. since these are usually at the very deepest parts of the ocean, and we have only in the recent past been able to explore there, there could have been dragon fossils remaining as late as the first half of the twentieth century which are now destroyed.

[younghawk]

Ok this is only my little peace on this............

When dragons did exist in this realm they still didn't completely exist here only partly. They were very wise creatures and when it came time for them to pass they would leave this realm to do so. To a grave yard yes, but not of this realm and that is why their bones haven't been found and will not be. When time came for them to no longer be here, they left this realm completely. They now dwell in summerland, but they do venture here when someone calls upon them for assistance, help, or they just get currious. Rarely do they ever take physical form anymore. They can be seen though by those that know they still exist, but may I say do not just call upon one and the only reason be to see it. Only call them if you need their help or advice. I hope this helps some.

Path walker
YoUnGhAwK

[MoonDust]

don't kill my dream of ever having a pet dragon of my very own.

[Open Again]

I read this earlier this AM and just read the Atlantis one….. Gave me a thought…. What if the grave yard has been covered by water? Lots and lots of ocean flour that was once land…. Ow… thinking hurts I should stop now….

[MoonDust]

I like this theory

[Pesha]

Dragons have very large bones and could well be misidentifed as dinosauers. The graveyard theory is very plausable. Now being the proud companion of a dragon, whom I see, and smell, he likes cherry cigars, I can tell you they do exisit. They have a home and like to float on over to this world whenever it pleases them. So ok call me carzy and a candidate for the loony bin. But they are real and do not like being bothered for publicitys sake. And for those who crave a drgon of their own. Be patient, they choose you.

Sorry for coming in to the Druid forum but this post begged my attention.

BB
DS.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

That brings up another idea. What if they dove into the ocean at their death? Grasping, yes, but as likely as anything else.

Myrddyn Emrys

[Methos]

Or would anyone like to think about the fact that possibly Dragons are immortal and do not die ?
Although I am of like mind as Dragonsinger , and that they return to the Earth.

Just my 2 cents...

[Myrddyn Emrys]

I think an easy way to sum it up is;

"Nothing unreal exists"

Myrddyn Emrys

[mol]

Ok this is only my little peace on this............

When dragons did exist in this realm they still didn't completely exist here only partly. They were very wise creatures and when it came time for them to pass they would leave this realm to do so. To a grave yard yes, but not of this realm and that is why their bones haven't been found and will not be. When time came for them to no longer be here, they left this realm completely. They now dwell in summerland, but they do venture here when someone calls upon them for assistance, help, or they just get currious. Rarely do they ever take physical form anymore. They can be seen though by those that know they still exist, but may I say do not just call upon one and the only reason be to see it. Only call them if you need their help or advice. I hope this helps some.

Path walker
YoUnGhAwK
That sounds like something Piers Anthony would write!

Sorry folks...I guess I am just a hopeless skeptic.

[mol]

That brings up another idea. What if they dove into the ocean at their death? Grasping, yes, but as likely as anything else.

Myrddyn Emrys
Yes...I can see what you all are saying. But, there are plenty of stories of dragon slayers. Surely one of these folks would have kept some PIECE of a dragon and yet...we have nothing.

[FaerySong]

*now for my 2 cents*

Well those stories could have been made to make themselves feel a bit more important when a dragon defeated them? Or maybe they had slayed other monsters whom resemble dragons (and I use the term monsters lightly of course). I am a very firm believer in dragon-kind and all their wonders, and the theory of them diving into the ocean or a volcano sounds very realistic. Also, if they live on another plane which undoubtly they do now, volcanoes or the depths of an ocean could be a doorway to their world.
Being a scientist-in-training (8O), the graveyard could be in a high part, or rather remote part, of the world where all records could've been destroyed or lost to the location of its whereabouts. Also, like it has been said before, the plates moving could have a good deal to do with it if they left their bones on this world. It's been said that India will eventually be taken in by the moving plates, so why not a dragon graveyard?
Those are just some of my cents, this truely is an interesting thread.

[mol]

:)

Ok. I get the graveyard scheme, but EVERY dragon. Not one trace left at all?!

[Cev'aq]

I wouldn't think it's impossible that the "way to die" (a volcano, or whatever) would be "hardwired" into their brains... Alternatively, I have heard theories of a collective consciousness. Neither of those, however, solve the possibility of dragonslayers' "trophies"... Perhaps those are just unclassified "dinosaur" remains.

[Myrddyn Emrys]

No, not every one, but like I said, there is a lot of surface to the earth.

As to "unclassified" dinosaur fossils, well archaeologists have done that before, combining skeletons found too close to another. It's not an exact science, having no model to pattern after.

Myrddyn Emrys

[banondraig]

As to "unclassified" dinosaur fossils, well archaeologists have done that before, combining skeletons found too close to another. It's not an exact science, having no model to pattern after.

Myrddyn Emrys

that's true! they got the iguanadon completely wrong until they found a whole skeleton. a spiky bone which is actually its thumb was placed on the nose, or something like that. it's also possible that the chemical composition of dragon bones is just such that they doesn't fossilize well. for example, the komodo dragon has about 60 kinds of bacteria in its mouth that don't exist elsewhere. perhaps dragons carried such a thing which caused them to decompose rapidly after death.

[DragonLove]

I think its a government conspiracy.

[banondraig]

I think its a government conspiracy.

but which government?

[DragonLove]

The government thats hiding the dragon fossils : )

Just kidding of course!

[Mindflayer]

Ok, off topic kinda, but still related


how do people view dragons?

Are they similar to D&D? (forgive I'm a geek :p)

like, did/do they talk? breathe elemental concocsions(sp)? stuff like that?


I'm really curious about this, I feel that anything that can be thought up, could have existed at one point or another, either in this dimension or another

[Hamelyn]

Agreed on that whole conceptual dimension thing, btw. Yay! A fellow d&d freak. I'm not sure how I think of them, really. In a short story I worked on, once, I made them pseudo-critters. While they appeared to have full sentience and great power, they were lines of magic coelasced (spelling be damned) into an actual being. So they were more like manifestations of great power. Not sure if this is how I feel, but I can see them as real creatures, as well. Not neccessarily an intelligence along human lines, but in the Golden Age communication was likely possible. I think oriental dragons swam through the air, since it was normally covered (at first, anyway) by the water element and they resembled eels and all.

I'm really not sure what else I think about them. I like the explanation Flight of Dragons gives for their firebreathing, and I like the elephant graveyard (as well as the unclassified fossils) ideas... but I don't think I'm in any position to form a die-hard opinion, really.

I have a close friend who is dragon Otherkin. My views of reincarnation are not the norm, admittably, but I'm very inclined to believe her. I'll get her to post her opinion, hopefully. She doesn't talk about it often. Silly water-signs. *grin*

[banondraig]

i think of dragons as an elder race. since forked tongues are incapable of producing speech, i think communication would have been more along the lines of the anne mccaffrey dragons, which is to say mind-to-mind. thisi may also have had something to do with their reputation for liking riddles, as this telepathic speech was not necessarily only words, but possibly images or impressions also or instead. the fire breath could have been a trick of this type as well, not necessarily physical at all, i.e. their way of saying "go away!"

[mol]

that's true! they got the iguanadon completely wrong until they found a whole skeleton. a spiky bone which is actually its thumb was placed on the nose, or something like that. it's also possible that the chemical composition of dragon bones is just such that they doesn't fossilize well. for example, the komodo dragon has about 60 kinds of bacteria in its mouth that don't exist elsewhere. perhaps dragons carried such a thing which caused them to decompose rapidly after death.
Now THAT is an interesting thought.

[Equinox]

Hi-

I agree with mol, it seems likely that fossils would be left. Some kinds of dinosaurs may qualify as “dragons” depending on your perspective. The scientific community is quite good about reporting finds – even those that are unexpected or contrary to some people’s views (yes I’m a scientist). Yes, fossils are sometimes temporarily misidentified (like iguanadon's "horn" which actually goes on his hand), but subsequet finds usually clear that up. If Dragons physically existed as animals (not half spirit of something), then they would have left some fossils, which would be figured out even if intitial ones were misidentified.

There don’t appear to have been any dragons with four (or more) legs and an additional two wings. However, the four winged beast mentioned earlier did have four wings – because it had long feathers on both it’s “arms” and “legs” – so it still had only four limbs. This dinosaur, like the other ones on the transition from dinosaur to bird, was small – like the size of a chicken.

BTW – don’t forget that we still have millions of dinosaurs roaming the earth today – it’s just that we call them “birds”. After all, birds evolved from dinosaurs. I even have a dinosaur feeder in my front yard – it holds sunflower seeds.

Maybe there are more fossils to find. However, the huge gap of time (80 to 150) million years for the dinosaurs mentioned above) means that the dragon legends probably didn’t grow from these. They appear to be more likely a cultural invention.

Of course we have to keep in mind that regardless of how we got dragon legends, they are cool legends!! A constant source of wonder and awe, no matter what they are based on. My wife and I like dragons enough to have given our son “Draconis” for his middle name! So there is at least one dragon that I've seen (and hugged) myself!!

-Equinox

[skatha_mare]

I recently heard dragons referred to as the water and energy ley lines of the earth ( this was from a Scottish dowser). Could it be that the pictures are what people pictured? when you dowse a ley line it is often winding like a dragon.

[Equinox]

Skatha, like this?? :

http://www.paganforums.org/showthread.php?t=33218

[Myrddyn Emrys]

I agree! Best hypothesis on it I think I've heard. Perhaps, if it were a chemical reaction that caused their "fire breathing", upon death the the release of the compounds uncontrolled would incinerate the corpse? Hot enough fire will burn bone, and for them to be so large, yet be able to fly their bones would have had to be similar to avian bones and be somewhat hollow.

Myrddyn Emrys

[Pesha]

I can understand the need for scientific proof of dragons, but I think maybe sometimes, is it not just better to just believe in the magick of dragfon and their existence?? Just a thought.

BB
DS.

[skatha_mare]

Skatha, like this?? :

http://www.paganforums.org/showthread.php?t=33218

exactly!

[mol]

I can understand the need for scientific proof of dragons, but I think maybe sometimes, is it not just better to just believe in the magick of dragfon and their existence?? Just a thought.

BB
DS.
:) Well, I don't 'believe' in Magic as I have had personal proof of how it 'works'. I have seen it. So, no...I can't 'believe' in dragons. That's not the way I work. :) But, also keep in mind that I am not dogging the people who do 'believe' in dragons! If you do, that rocks! I would like more proof, though.

Equinox, thank you for that great post.

[Mindflayer]

hehe mol, you sound like me... I have many beliefs, but there's also that (what if) in the back of my mind :p


I don't see this as a problem though, I mean what's the point in believing in something if you can't question it, without those questions you have nothing to search for in your beliefs :)

[banondraig]

I mean what's the point in believing in something if you can't question it, without those questions you have nothing to search for in your beliefs :)

yes! you don't want your mind to fossilize. maybe *that's* why there are no dragon fossils -- they kept open minds! :lol:

[Valnorran]

There was a book (unfortunately I can't rember the author or title) that speculated that mythical creatures got started as a result of ancients finding fossils and bones of extinct animals. For example, the skeleton of a dinosaur called a protoceratops could have given rise to the belief in griffons, and if you've ever seen a picture of this dinosaur's skeleton, the resemblance is clear. The skull of something like a wooly rhinocerous or large dinosaur could easily be mistakenly identified as a dragon's. I find the book's concept simultaneously interesting and depressing. Personally, I choose to believe in dragons. I've been fascinated by them since I was very small, and no matter what stories were told about them, I never feared them. I've always "felt" them, for lack of a better word, though I've never seen one. I'm convinced they are my guardians and friends. Some things you know through empirical evidence or scientific proof, and some things you know on another level. Some things you see with your eyes and know with your mind, and somethings you see and know with your heart. Every so often, I encounter something that I have absolutely no proof for, but I know it just as surely as I know myself. Dragons are some of these things.

[mol]

Thanks, Val. You have made me think even more.

[Tvhawk]

well now, here is my 'two cents'

I believe that dragons do exist. Since the beginning of their existance they have been wise creatures and also have the gift of traveling between 'realms'(or in other words....planes...or astral levels) and therefore often live in the other realms rather than here as we humans are stupid.....they come and visit...i personally have probably seen hundreds.......they visit me in the form of clouds.......if i could remember more dreams i am sure they visit me there as well.

ending of my two cents

[mol]

well now, here is my 'two cents'

I believe that dragons do exist. Since the beginning of their existance they have been wise creatures and also have the gift of traveling between 'realms'(or in other words....planes...or astral levels) and therefore often live in the other realms rather than here as we humans are stupid.....they come and visit...i personally have probably seen hundreds.......they visit me in the form of clouds.......if i could remember more dreams i am sure they visit me there as well.

ending of my two cents
They dont visit here because we are stupid? Well, that's not very nice at all...I guess I can see the reason for dragon hunters.

[RogueEcho]

It doesn't appear that anyone has come up with this, but have we ever considered that maybe when a dragon dies, it just fades away, rather than leave a trace? If they ARE creatures of magic, which I've always been led to believe, then wouldn't that fit?

Then there's also an interesting idea that comes out of D&D (yes, another one) -- dragons, in death, take the physical form of their favored humaniod form. That would serve to hide them as a species in the paleontological record.

The immortality/shifting between planes of existence and ley line ideas are quite interesting, too....


Just my pocket change.

[Grey Cat]

I read this earlier this AM and just read the Atlantis one….. Gave me a thought…. What if the grave yard has been covered by water? Lots and lots of ocean flour that was once land…. Ow… thinking hurts I should stop now….

National Geographic at least 20 years ago had a relief map of the bottoms of the oceans and in it I saw the shapes of dragons.

I've done a search of their site but can't find the map I had. It was on my wall for a long time.

[vikinggoddess]

water dragons?

anybody remember this?

http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/plesios.htm

[craig]

three points of consideration
'1) bird reptile evolutionary constructs did exist and we have found fossilized records of them in many places including the U.S. whether or not these creatures followed our mythos concerning dragons is unknown.
When looking at the fossil record please remain aware that we have suffered at least 15 recorded extinction periods within our viewable record. the earth is much older that the fossil record indicates and as such records of before times may not be available as they would already made their way through the magna recycling dynamic.
2) if you want to explore dragons as a form that exists in a dimension close to our own where we overlap in special places (stonehedge, chitzen itza, etc) then that information has to be examined by mythos forms. One thing that fascinates me is that the dragon mythos occurs in every culture of mankind. Also when we examine these mythos most of the relevant data is that these creatures were honored and existed in the ethical realm of white.
3) we who use dragons as our archtype or spirit brother have no doubts of their existance nor do we doubt our relationships with our brothers. however this argument exists in the realm of faith. Faith is real and relavant for me only and there is no proof but my belief supported by my power
Thanks for the discourse

[gawains_wife]

I agree with younghawk. One of my watchers is a dragon. I am surprised no one else has thought of the possibility that they go to another realm when they are ready to die.

gawains_wife

[Talon]

my youngest son has me convinced they exist...even if they have now live on the spiritual plane... he talks to the dragons and has 2 that follow him every where he tells me what they look like and where they are and what they are doing and not to sit on them when i am home if they are occupying my chair they tell him things that no 4 yr old should know about, places i have been before he was born, suggests things to add to my home brew (mead) to make the offerings more palatable, asks me to call an old high school sweetheart whos mother just moved into town and needs help, asks me to get the door before the bell rings,
if i didnt believe in dragons i wod still listen to the advise of my son
"DONT MAKE A DRAGON MAD, YOU ARE CRUNCHY AND TASTE GOOD WITH KETCHUP"

[Tvhawk]

oui, how i love that quote! i have a bumper sticker of that that lays in me book of shadows :D

[Elfa Wylde]

I'm personally of the opinion to agre with that some of the "dinosaurs" are in actuality Dragons. There are almost as many "kinds" as there are tales of dragons.

D.J. Conway has written a good book about this subject (and a LOT more) called "Dancing With Dragons"

I also have a bit of an alternate therory: perhaps they only exsisted on the other side of the veil.. and were only seen once in a while.... there are STILL being that cross back and forth.

[Tranquility]

Just a factor to keep in mind, there is as much unknown and uncharted land as there is sea.. thats a LOT of uncharted planet earth...
I cannot remember who brought up dragons in the clouds but recently i was walking my dog and near the end of the walk each day there is this clearing in the area i bring her and it feels like im completely in a much more peaceful places, but it is in the middle of houses and stuff. Anywho, i had an urge to look up in this clearing of trees and i noticed a PERFECTLY etched dragon in the clouds! This wasn't just a vague shape i had to mold in my mind a bit, but this was a PERFECT representation of a dragon, like someone drew it in the clouds...

[banondraig]

I'm personally of the opinion to agre with that some of the "dinosaurs" are in actuality Dragons. There are almost as many "kinds" as there are tales of dragons.


sudden thought -- does cartilage fossilize as well as bone? maybe dragon wings decomposed much more rapidly than the rest of the dragon and so left four-legged, wingless fossils.

[Aidron]

In my opinion dragons are extremely powerful beings, much like faeries and angels. We do not see them because 1.) They do not wish to be seen and 2.) They are probably on another plane, or perhaps our plane but vibrating at a different rate so as to create an ethereal displacement effect.

I have worked with them very little, mainly because I am not drawn to them, but also they are not too keen on a sense of humor from my experiences, and since I am a laugh or joke a minute, the last thing I need is to get on the bad side of a dragon. I digress, however.

Dragons are probably so attuned with the energy of the cosmos that magic flows within and from them to the extreme. It would be very easy for them not wish to be seen, or to create an effect sort of like being ethereal.

However, I do not believe they leave physical remains. They are being of pure energy and magic, so when they pass on (which from my experiences and communion with them can take hundreds of our lifetimes) they merely become recycled energy, drawn back into the cosmos.

Granted, that's only what I believe, and they may very well leave physical remains. Should this be the case, I am sure dragons are intelligent enough to cover up such instances and take the remains of their kind to some place of where we cannot locate them, perhaps even destroy them, such as cremation. They are incredibly magical, and with magic anything is possible, especially to the degree I have felt them wield it.

[banondraig]

Granted, that's only what I believe, and they may very well leave physical remains. Should this be the case, I am sure dragons are intelligent enough to cover up such instances and take the remains of their kind to some place of where we cannot locate them, perhaps even destroy them, such as cremation.

i like it -- maybe there's a dragon cremation ground somewhere. that fiery breath must come in handy. i guess dragon courtship doesn't include blowing in ears. :lol

i think i just offended them. i'll be good from now on!

[Tvhawk]

Just a factor to keep in mind, there is as much unknown and uncharted land as there is sea.. thats a LOT of uncharted planet earth...
I cannot remember who brought up dragons in the clouds but recently i was walking my dog and near the end of the walk each day there is this clearing in the area i bring her and it feels like im completely in a much more peaceful places, but it is in the middle of houses and stuff. Anywho, i had an urge to look up in this clearing of trees and i noticed a PERFECTLY etched dragon in the clouds! This wasn't just a vague shape i had to mold in my mind a bit, but this was a PERFECT representation of a dragon, like someone drew it in the clouds...

Yes, the clouds...that was me :D....

and that is allways how i percieve them...well 90 percent of the time anyways...the other times i think my mind just places them there cause i expect them to be there. I have even scetched a couple of them....taken a picture of one too...will have to see if i still have it and i will have to send it in if i do :D

well ta ta for now....gotta get readdy for work!
:P MP :P

[Elfa Wylde]

sudden thought -- does cartilage fossilize as well as bone? maybe dragon wings decomposed much more rapidly than the rest of the dragon and so left four-legged, wingless fossils.


Actually... after reading yoru post, then looking up a few things (i'm a research hound)
I found that although cartilage doesn't exctly fossilize... there's often an impression left...
BUT and here's the clincher: often there's either such a faint impression that it's almost unnoticable OR ther'es no impression left when the bones/fossils are unearthed!

[Elfa Wylde]

I recently (thanks to the guidelines in the book i have) have had some communications with dragons.

and even more recently there has been activity on our land.

(Thank goodness for a place like this with people like you all... i can say all this without feeling like a kook!! thank you!)

anyway... There's a large white Dragon.. i believe it's female.. that has chosen my circle's sacred place as a good place to sleep. but during rituals she's awake and very vibrant. Several people have caught glimpses of her while dancing or chanting.

There's also a very young one about the length of a large sofa. I know her name is Lilly (i've had conversations with her in meditation) and she has been assigned (by whom i have no clue) to be my Guardian as well as guardian of our home. she also plays with our dog Russell and enjoys popping out at the cats, making them hiss and sputter but they calm down very quickly.

Like i say, this is all recent.. like in the last few weeks.... I'm learning a LOT though and they're wonderful to have around. I don't get the creeps in my back yeard anymore knowing that the White Lady is there watching.

[Tvhawk]

I recently (thanks to the guidelines in the book i have) have had some communications with dragons.

and even more recently there has been activity on our land.

(Thank goodness for a place like this with people like you all... i can say all this without feeling like a kook!! thank you!)

anyway... There's a large white Dragon.. i believe it's female.. that has chosen my circle's sacred place as a good place to sleep. but during rituals she's awake and very vibrant. Several people have caught glimpses of her while dancing or chanting.

There's also a very young one about the length of a large sofa. I know her name is Lilly (i've had conversations with her in meditation) and she has been assigned (by whom i have no clue) to be my Guardian as well as guardian of our home. she also plays with our dog Russell and enjoys popping out at the cats, making them hiss and sputter but they calm down very quickly.

Like i say, this is all recent.. like in the last few weeks.... I'm learning a LOT though and they're wonderful to have around. I don't get the creeps in my back yeard anymore knowing that the White Lady is there watching.


rather interesting.....which book did you get and read through?

[banondraig]

I found that although cartilage doesn't exctly fossilize... there's often an impression left...
BUT and here's the clincher: often there's either such a faint impression that it's almost unnoticable OR ther'es no impression left when the bones/fossils are unearthed!

interesting . . . so if they were closer to the shark/manta ray bit of evolution, they might have cartilage wings or even complete cartilage skeletons. this would make them at least somewhat light weight (i *think* -- my last study of biology was a long time ago). and non-fossilizing. or they could be another branch of reptiles, only with different skeletal structure. they'd have to be warm-blooded, though. no way around that.

maybe a few manta-type critters grew feet-ish fins, crawled out of the primordial soup, and found their powerful fins let them flap away from predators. the other ones either stayed in the water or got eaten. so the best flyers were selected for. not quite sure about the rest yet. stay tuned.

[Cev'aq]

interesting . . . so if they were closer to the shark/manta ray bit of evolution, they might have cartilage wings or even complete cartilage skeletons. this would make them at least somewhat light weight (i *think* -- my last study of biology was a long time ago). and non-fossilizing.

I don't believe a whole cartilage skeleton would be possible for a land-dwelling creature, as a shark brought onto land (without any form of support, such as a sling) collapses... for lack of a better explanation. I'm not sure about the cartilage wing structure... I'm debating it with my DH. :lol:

[Elfa Wylde]

rather interesting.....which book did you get and read through?


I have the book "Dancing With Dragons" by D J Conway.

for over a year before i bought the book. i'd been catching glimpses and "seeing" dragons everywhere... (you know how it is, dragons in the clouds... a shift of trees just right... finally get into that store you've been wanting check out only to find that they have a HUGE dragon display.

I took it as an omen of sorts when i reached for a totally different book and acidentally grabbed "Dancing With Dragons"
Needless to say (so i'll say it anyway) i bought the book.

Fasinating.

[banondraig]

I don't believe a whole cartilage skeleton would be possible for a land-dwelling creature, as a shark brought onto land (without any form of support, such as a sling) collapses... for lack of a better explanation. I'm not sure about the cartilage wing structure... I'm debating it with my DH. :lol:
oh well. so much for that theory. just throwing stuff out till some sticks. :lol: i believe in dragons whether they can be proved or not -- nobody has *disproved* them yet. it's fun to speculate about what might have been or even is. there is a story in an old issue of skeptic magazine about "mokele-mbembe", which is a creature dwelling in equatorial africa bearing close resemblance to a brontosaurus, if perhaps smaller. will have to get in touch w/my uncle who showed me that article & find out more details -- it's been a while since i read it.

[sodken]

well in my reading dragon's are my favorite subject by the way.there
is four classes of dragon's.the air dragon's had wing's of course.but
fire chaos and water mostly didnt.there wing's was more of a cartalige
like the one's in your nose.so when they died the wing's would decompose.
this is my theroy as why we havent found fossil's.
but a graveyard in a seperate plane is also a option.or the ocean's
antartica if on this world.or maybe a volcano just adding some of my
theory's to the thread.the still exsit mostly on the astral plane.some in
my opintion still come to this world just to see what is up.man drove
them from this world.or they left because they was not wanted and hunted
by human ignorance actualy.
if you listen and are in tune you might just hear on as he pases over you.]
or feel him when he is needed.
dragon can be a great help if you treat them with respect and honour
they hold more wisdom than any man,and once you gain there trust
they will share some of there wisdom with you.Remember dragon are
very powerful in magical way's.and have lived long.respect them as elder's
of knowledge and as a friend.great thing's will come from it.
anyway ive threw my dollar in the pot.think i pass my 2cent about ten
lines ago.Happy Samhain and a blessed new year.

[8Starz]

Ok this is only my little peace on this............

When dragons did exist in this realm they still didn't completely exist here only partly. They were very wise creatures and when it came time for them to pass they would leave this realm to do so. To a grave yard yes, but not of this realm and that is why their bones haven't been found and will not be. When time came for them to no longer be here, they left this realm completely. They now dwell in summerland, but they do venture here when someone calls upon them for assistance, help, or they just get currious. Rarely do they ever take physical form anymore. They can be seen though by those that know they still exist, but may I say do not just call upon one and the only reason be to see it. Only call them if you need their help or advice. I hope this helps some.

Path walker
YoUnGhAwK


I've been told that I'm from the "Dragon realm," but I haven't yet studied the subject. But, I resonate with what you're saying, Younghawk. I've only recently been introduced to the concept that we, in fact, move in and out of different dimensions unknowingly...and that makes a lot of sense to me even as a "newbie" to the theory. I'm wondering if our different emotions don't each put us briefly into a different realm as we're experiencing them...

I'm very much into animal totems and the crow is one of my main totems. I think the crow also travels from one realm to the other like you say the dragon did. So, I wonder how often crow bones are found. I've seen the eyes of a person with multiple personalities visibly change upon the personality changing, and I think that's an indication of them being partially in another dimension. I think that white gauzy second eyelid of snakes and ducks also hints at this. But, it would seem the dragon, the crow and probably others had/have the ability to "morph" their physical bodies into those realms as well as their spiritual aspect. That's what's especially difficult for our left-brain to conceive of. But, there are a lot of animals that do things that can't be explained very well (or at all) by science...a little example, the light of the lightning bug...

I look forward to learning more about the Dragon realm and connecting with that energy.

8Starz

[turtlerain46]

That brings up another idea. What if they dove into the ocean at their death? Grasping, yes, but as likely as anything else.

Myrddyn Emrys
This idea makes alot of sense to me. Although I'm not a dragon expert by any means, since dragons were a creature of flame, it would make sense that upon the time of death they would dive into large bodies of water, (extiguishing the flame of life or what you will) Far fetched yes but logical


Oh and if anyone has any good place to find quality dragon info pm it to me, this is an area I would like to explore further

[mol]

This idea makes alot of sense to me. Although I'm not a dragon expert by any means, since dragons were a creature of flame, it would make sense that upon the time of death they would dive into large bodies of water, (extiguishing the flame of life or what you will) Far fetched yes but logical


Oh and if anyone has any good place to find quality dragon info pm it to me, this is an area I would like to explore further
While that is a good 'romantic' idea...it is not really practical. Of course, the 'believers' have me beat! :) But, I am choosing NOT believing and requiring some proof. Thats why I have started researching it.

[Alyn]

Unfortunately Myth, Legend, Story, Fantasy and Wishful Thinking get mixed into the Realities. They all have value but are often little more than speculation.
Here is what i know.
1. Dragons are not immortal, but are as humans once were, VERY long lived.
2. They are not super- intelligent, but are similar to us in being a diverse community of idiots and geniuses and everything betwixt.
3. They came from another "place" where many have always remained.
4. Allmost all of those that came here, were banished roughly 4000 years ago.
5. Of those that died before or since the banishment, they were all killed by humans.
6. Their remains were sometimes kept as trophies, sometimes destroyed by the superstitious, but mostly used up in spells and incantations and such.
7. The few that were not banished, stayed. Some may yet be about.
8. Very few had the ability to travel between. They were sent here.
9. Spirits of the dead have All remained here.

I have speculated about the reasons and logistics of these events but they are just that, speculation. And it is true that some legends came form dinosaur fossils discovered by ancients. But most legends and stories came from our ancestor's interactions with real Dragons.
I think it is a mistake to lionize and idealize them however or make any generalizations. Some are good, some are evil, some are fools, some are wise. They are an intriguing topic for sure, and there are things we can learn from them . But personally they hold little significance to me or my faith. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong. I've been wrong before =].

[Autumn Clair]

Hm. Not quite sure if this is the right place to ask this, bt I will give it a shot. If dragons existed, why have they not uncovered any fossils? Or have they and perhaps I am just not as well read on the subject. Any info would be appreciated.

Think mystical Mol, what of the theory of combustion, like that of the human theory body burns from inside out. I would believe it more if it were a dragon. When they die they combust and their souls go to the stars. Dragons are mystical maybe they weren't meant to be found, bone of a dragon could be pretty powerful in a spell.

Think it over.........

[~*Ginger*~]

I watched something on 'Animal Planet' about bears burying their dead.

That might be a possiblity.

Or maybe they went into caves, to die.

If they did bury their dead, or went into a cave to die.
Maybe they sealed it in some way.

That would be some really deep digging, to locate remains.

[mol]

Think mystical Mol, what of the theory of combustion, like that of the human theory body burns from inside out. I would believe it more if it were a dragon. When they die they combust and their souls go to the stars. Dragons are mystical maybe they weren't meant to be found, bone of a dragon could be pretty powerful in a spell.

Think it over.........
I dont just get into believing. I like to see proof, even if it is a personal proof. Mystical animals? Well, what about golems, werewolves, vampires, and unicorns!?

[Autumn Clair]

While that is a good 'romantic' idea...it is not really practical. Of course, the 'believers' have me beat! :) But, I am choosing NOT believing and requiring some proof. Thats why I have started researching it.

Let's all do some research on dragon's see who can give MOL the Proof needed that dragon's existed.

[bellamandu]

it was always my belief that dragons existed on the earth long ago, and after they saw what horrible things man could do, they left into a spiritual world. almost another dimension if thats what you would call it. they are stil around us everywhere, most of us just cant see them. but thats why we cant find any rock hard evidence against them in large numbers. at least by what ive learned.

[mol]

it was always my belief that dragons existed on the earth long ago, and after they saw what horrible things man could do, they left into a spiritual world. almost another dimension if thats what you would call it. they are stil around us everywhere, most of us just cant see them. but thats why we cant find any rock hard evidence against them in large numbers. at least by what ive learned.
They just left into a spiritual world? How did they do this and how do we do it?

[Myrddyn Emrys]

They just left into a spiritual world? How did they do this and how do we do it?
Ask the Tuathe De Dannan.

Myrddyn Emrys

[bellamandu]

They just left into a spiritual world? How did they do this and how do we do it?


i guess the only way i can explain it is by comparing it to when we die. some of us go to other places,some are reborn, while some of our spirits stay and roam the earth. some people even beleive in some sort of heaven, or equivalent. its almost the same as well as i can explain with dragons. they have their own equivalent heaven (although they did not literally die, as far as i know) to which, instead of dieing, they saw what horrible things man was doing, and what we are, and they became almost above that, sort of attaining nirvana i guess. because of this, they aheived, or left to go to if you will, and went to a equivalent heaven. some stayed, in spiritual form. sort of like ghosts i guess? some are assigned to be our spiritual guardians, some stay because of some sort of attachment, etc. some dragons were even reborn into humans. as a lot of people have found out, many of us were dragons in past lives. .....is any of this making any sense?

its not something that we can just do. we have to eventually attain it. Some of us can see these dragons, and co-exist with them, but we cant actually "do that", that is, going into a spiritual world, until we reach higher spiritual understanding, or until we die.


....for the imaginative, almost like alternate dimensions. several seperate entities, occupying the same space, although they do not technically coexist together. like ghosts and humans.

[~*Ginger*~]

I watched something on 'Animal Planet' about bears burying their dead.

That might be a possiblity.

Or maybe they went into caves, to die.

If they did bury their dead, or went into a cave to die.
Maybe they sealed it in some way.

That would be some really deep digging, to locate remains.
I guess, this didn't make any sense to anyone but myself.....

[Slasint]

Dragons were cave dwellers. They were a very intelligent species. When they knew they were to die they would dwell back to their cave. Or if they were killed their bones were used by the people of that time. known for the magic in them. They are still alive, living among the other world. portal of the dead, dwelling of the fairies.

[Cerulean]

Dragons existed. Most cultures have legends about them, cultures as diverse as England and China. In Hawaii they tell of giant magic lizards called Mo'o that no one was eager to tangle with. To this day, they say that these inhabit the bottom of pools or exist in the form of mountains and rock formations that they turned into.


There are some channeled teachings about the time when dragons flew and I'll send you a private message with the titles. This was much further back in time than people currently think the Earth's history goes. Continents have come and gone since dragons flew Earth's skies. They traveled to the center of the earth to the fire sea to purify themselves, and could breathe fire. As for what they did with their bones, I don't have the courage to ask them, but you can . . . if you're willing.

[Grey]

As for how they get to this spiritual world, couldnt it just be one with a higher (or lower possibly...) energy level than ours? especially if it was a higher theory philotics would explain how they traveled there... not my favorite, but still a theory.

[Cerulean]

Think about how many animals have died in a forest near your house (if you have one) but how few skeletons you see.

In the nineteen century they were finding Neanderthal bones for decades before they knew what they were.

[door]

I recall reading that more Pterosaurs are being discovered in parts of Germany, Russia, Arizona and the Southwest. Pterosaurs, such as the Rhamphorhynchus, have a very dragon-like look and make-up.

http://www.prehistory.com/rhamphor.htm

[banondraig]

yep, very dragonish. thanks for that great link, door!

[mol]

I recall reading that more Pterosaurs are being discovered in parts of Germany, Russia, Arizona and the Southwest. Pterosaurs, such as the Rhamphorhynchus, have a very dragon-like look and make-up.

http://www.prehistory.com/rhamphor.htm
Ah...excellent link. Looking over this now.

[faustus]

I love some of the theories you all have come up with.This truely is the place to ask such interesting questions.Dont you really wonder why there was such a dragon craze all over the world covering such diverse peoples and places.fact becomes myth Myth becomes legend.and so on.please keep the info coming. F.D

[dragonkin]

One of my guardian spirits is a dragon, and he takes a little offense of people refering to him as an extinct species. He says they are still very much alive, well and still here its just most people can't see them. It's a little hard to explain, but I'll try.
Dragon's come from a paralell plane of reality as to many other beings that have now been relegated to myth and fantasy. At one time our worlds were much more closely connected and over time as people were taught to only trust what they could perceive with their "five" senses and to believe only what others told them to be true the link between the realms began to weaken. After Christianity demonized them and spread lies about them, such as them eating people, (Anak snorts and says dragons have never had any interest in humans as a food source, Yech! They as a rule stick mostly to plant matter), and spread fear throughout the populace they quit coming through in physical form,although they still could if they wanted to, but who wants to drop in and have people poking sharp pointy objects at you or now a days much worse.
They still have a strong bond with humanity and look out for us, much as they always have. Their wisdom is available to any who ask with an open heart and mind. I have travelled non-physically to the dragon realm on many occassions and find them to be a healthy, vibrant and thriving race of incredible beings.
Anak says that if you trust your senses beyond the five physical ones, and have love and peaceful intentions in your heart, when you trully desire you to may meet a dragon. Trust me it is a very worthwhile experience.

Walk In Peace

Bright Star Night Dragon &
Anak of Laughing Waters, Southern Realm, Dragon Realm

[Storm]

I don't know if this has been covered but I felt I had to point out. If DRagonslayers had taken trophies they would not exist today because bone is parishable. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, you know? They don't have any actual rune staves for divination from ancient times but they assume they had them based on written records. Why? Because wood is perishable. Fossils exist because the bones became incased in airtight mud to preserve them before they decomposed. Animals that lived in wet environments were likely to be fossilised by sinking into mud before completely decomposing. Also dinosaur bones are very dense. Human bones are not likely to preserve as well. (I can't speak for dragon bones). I can't explain any better than any of the other theories as to why no fossils have ever been found. But that may explain why no trophies.

[Barazulus]

(Haven't read _every_ reply, apologies to anyone who already posted this idea)

Much of what we know about dragons comes from the pictures, movies, and sculptures we see. The original concept of the dragon had to come from somewhere. We can also consider that Job 41:19-21 speaks of a creature, where "...Firebrands stream from his mouth, sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds. His breath sets coals ablaze and flames dart from his mouth." In earlier verses we see that God is speaking of the "behemoth", a giant creature with a huge tail. While there's no mention of wings (that I saw), that sounds like a bloody dragon to me!

I have a red dragon as my spirit guide...he's not big, he generally hangs out on my shoulder. I've woken up a couple of times in the middle of the night to a pitch-black room, but there's a reddish outline hovering at the end of my bed. And I have no reason to believe otherwise *g* Now if only i could train his to turn some of my coworkers to ashes...

[banondraig]

I don't know if this has been covered but I felt I had to point out. If DRagonslayers had taken trophies they would not exist today because bone is parishable. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, you know? They don't have any actual rune staves for divination from ancient times but they assume they had them based on written records. Why? Because wood is perishable. Fossils exist because the bones became incased in airtight mud to preserve them before they decomposed. Animals that lived in wet environments were likely to be fossilised by sinking into mud before completely decomposing. Also dinosaur bones are very dense. Human bones are not likely to preserve as well. (I can't speak for dragon bones). I can't explain any better than any of the other theories as to why no fossils have ever been found. But that may explain why no trophies.

excellent point. i could be wrong on this, but i would expect dragons to be hollow-boned like birds, so that they would have less weight to support when they fly. thus their bones are likely to be even less dense than those of humans.

[Lucius]

In my opinion...Dragons aren't beings of this world. I see Dragons as spiritual beings on the astral plane. They can be guides, or help in magickal endeavors. And, who knows....maybe the "dinosaurs" were really the "dragons." Just a thought to ponder... :floating:

[Seamus MacNemi]

Has anyone thought about Dragon stew?:dinnertim:I hear they taste like chicken :rollingla:

[banondraig]

Has anyone thought about Dragon stew?:dinnertim:I hear they taste like chicken :rollingla:
:fishsmack :fishsmack :fishsmack

with that attitude, flame-broiled Seamus is more likely!!! :flamer: :hairraise

[Seamus MacNemi]

Aw SHUCKS. I thought all you dragons had a sense of humor. :geez:
Heck, you wouldn't like me, I'm so old I'd taste like old shoe leather:toofless:

[Ouroboros]

Dragons have very large bones and could well be misidentifed as dinosauers. The graveyard theory is very plausable. Now being the proud companion of a dragon, whom I see, and smell, he likes cherry cigars, I can tell you they do exisit. They have a home and like to float on over to this world whenever it pleases them. So ok call me carzy and a candidate for the loony bin. But they are real and do not like being bothered for publicitys sake. And for those who crave a drgon of their own. Be patient, they choose you.

Sorry for coming in to the Druid forum but this post begged my attention.

BB
DS.

I honor your post, to think people would call you crazy? When for thousands of years humans and dragons were revelled together... So many coats of arms, so many tales and stories, so much truth only fortunatly now being rediscovered.

I think it's absolutely incredible you have a dragon companion, I hope some day one might find me too. :floating:

[Ouroboros]

One of my guardian spirits is a dragon, and he takes a little offense of people refering to him as an extinct species. He says they are still very much alive, well and still here its just most people can't see them. It's a little hard to explain, but I'll try.
Dragon's come from a paralell plane of reality as to many other beings that have now been relegated to myth and fantasy. At one time our worlds were much more closely connected and over time as people were taught to only trust what they could perceive with their "five" senses and to believe only what others told them to be true the link between the realms began to weaken. After Christianity demonized them and spread lies about them, such as them eating people, (Anak snorts and says dragons have never had any interest in humans as a food source, Yech! They as a rule stick mostly to plant matter), and spread fear throughout the populace they quit coming through in physical form,although they still could if they wanted to, but who wants to drop in and have people poking sharp pointy objects at you or now a days much worse.
They still have a strong bond with humanity and look out for us, much as they always have. Their wisdom is available to any who ask with an open heart and mind. I have travelled non-physically to the dragon realm on many occassions and find them to be a healthy, vibrant and thriving race of incredible beings.
Anak says that if you trust your senses beyond the five physical ones, and have love and peaceful intentions in your heart, when you trully desire you to may meet a dragon. Trust me it is a very worthwhile experience.

Walk In Peace

Bright Star Night Dragon &
Anak of Laughing Waters, Southern Realm, Dragon Realm

Much respect to Anak, from the human race I hope we can say "my bad" in union soonish

What sort of techniques do you employ in connecting to the dragon realm? I'm only finally getting into it, this one book I picked up called "Dancing with Dragons" has me in rediculous excitement. Childhood memories being re-opened, I've always felt a great bond with dragon kind.

[Ouroboros]

I don't know if this has been covered but I felt I had to point out. If DRagonslayers had taken trophies they would not exist today because bone is parishable. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, you know? They don't have any actual rune staves for divination from ancient times but they assume they had them based on written records. Why? Because wood is perishable. Fossils exist because the bones became incased in airtight mud to preserve them before they decomposed. Animals that lived in wet environments were likely to be fossilised by sinking into mud before completely decomposing. Also dinosaur bones are very dense. Human bones are not likely to preserve as well. (I can't speak for dragon bones). I can't explain any better than any of the other theories as to why no fossils have ever been found. But that may explain why no trophies.

Well there is something that may clear up dragons existing physically, but it has to go to the level of DNA.

There were tales of certain trees/plants growing amidst the spilt blood of dragons, whether during dragons fighting or what have you. I think they can be found in Malaysia, and albeit the understanding is that dragons blood is so poisonous that the ground it's spilt on will not nourish plant-life, these trees/plants were able to do it but had become part dragons-blood. In ancient times this plant was a perfect substitute for real dragons blood. Thus rituals were developed, etc.

If we took this specific plant life and studied the source pattern of it's DNA structure, we might run across the strains which lead back to the dragon...and of course through the right computing calculate what the species of life it truly came to appear like...(dragon?)

I'm presently without all the details, but I'll try to post more about the search when I get home.

[Ouroboros]

excellent point. i could be wrong on this, but i would expect dragons to be hollow-boned like birds, so that they would have less weight to support when they fly. thus their bones are likely to be even less dense than those of humans.

I think they might have had either.

Here's something interesting I read about dragons and flight :

It was known that male dragons had NO WINGS, and females had wings. How did the male dragon fly? How did even the female elemental dragons fly...they were gigantic!

Well according to something I read dragons were so tuned to energies that they could literally leap into the air and push themselves Through the air (like swimming in an ocean, or lets get all Monk about it and refer to Air as something that can be stepped on like a stone). They usually accomplished said task by feeling the magnetics between the earth and the atmosphere. They are so powerful they could literally swim through the air. Look back at ancient chinese dragons for examples of the wingless ones...

Moreover, think about the greatest of great martial artists. Beyond the body is the spirit, but furthermore there were some masters who were able to literally leap and twist and glide through the air as if it were a big giant friend giving them a boost.

[banondraig]

Aw SHUCKS. I thought all you dragons had a sense of humor. :geez:
Heck, you wouldn't like me, I'm so old I'd taste like old shoe leather:toofless:

does shoe leather taste like chicken? :deviltail *i* do have a sense of humor, or i would have :smash: or :uzi: instead of :fishsmack . it's just that the dragons don't like that kind of humor. sometimes i think they prefer the :hailmol: treatment!

[Ouroboros]

does shoe leather taste like chicken? :deviltail *i* do have a sense of humor, or i would have :smash: or :uzi: instead of :fishsmack . it's just that the dragons don't like that kind of humor. sometimes i think they prefer the :hailmol: treatment!


fish R funneh

[banondraig]

fish R funneh

exactly!

[Elfa Wylde]

I honor your post, to think people would call you crazy? When for thousands of years humans and dragons were revelled together... So many coats of arms, so many tales and stories, so much truth only fortunatly now being rediscovered.

I think it's absolutely incredible you have a dragon companion, I hope some day one might find me too. :floating:


There are ways of asking for a Dragon companion/guardian/guide but learn more about dragons first and be really sure you want one around.

There are three here with me and my family. I have a guardian forest dragon, Lili, who, from tip of nose to tip of tail is only about the size of a couch, while my youngest daughter's guardian, Mala, is a midnight pixie dragon only about five feet high (they're a type of small wyvern having only two legs and wings.) Then, there is the White Ice-Dragon, Pacha, who (literally) surrounds our sacred space (an entire hill.)

Pacha was our first dragon. She is a very large Wyvern who is able to completely circle our hill and overlap at nose and tail. She breaths ice and we can tell when she's please with our majikal workings because the whole yard will fill with fog. She's an arctic-white with opalecent scales. Her wings are white and leathery with very fine feathering like a moth's.

Lili is my personal guardian dragon. She's of the forest varitey. Four legs, the size of our couch (she likes to sleep on my feet when i'm sitting on "her" couch) Lili's a firebreather and her favoutite couch is the warmest spot in the house. She's a purple-blue with a green irridencense to her scales and her wings are a dark dark blue, buttery-soft leathery.
She's only about 500 y/o and is very cheery and rather a giggle box, but not EVEN ditzy. she knows well how to take delight in even the smallest things and lately has taken to singing to me when i'm meditating or doing housework. She's got a voice you'd have to hear to know what she sounds like.

Mala is the opposite of Lili. she's much smaller, a very glossy midnightblue wyvern. she's also very shy. she's also fond of dancing. She's the most recent addition having been here only a couple weeks.

I would recommend that anyone seeking dragons get ahold of the book "Dancing with Dragons" by D.J. Conway. It's fabulous.

According to Lili, Dragons go to the 'other side' before dying. She's also stated that she thinks "maybe the bones are porous and tending to dissolve redily" but she's not sure yet and is looking into it. She says she hopes once she finds out she'll be "allowed" to tell.

From Lili, i got the nikname "Elvish DragonRider" as i first met her in a dream where i was an elf and she let me ride her..though briefly.

I can keep posting about dragons from Lili and the book if you all like. just holler out.

[Ouroboros]

I would recommend that anyone seeking dragons get ahold of the book "Dancing with Dragons" by D.J. Conway. It's fabulous.


Your dragons sound adorable. I've actually Been reading Dancing with Dragons recently, i'm like 1/6th through the book so far. I'm positive I have some ancient if not childhood connection to dragons. After this book, is there anything else you recommend?

[Elfa Wylde]

I've been looking for more books on the subject, but so far to no avail.
I read 'Dancing' through the first time then went back and started giving the rituals a try here and there. It was during ....probably... the 5th time that I realised that Pacha was there. That's pretty much what I'd reccommend for the time being. I'm looking for more info as we speak. For some reason (ha ha) i seemed to have forgotten a very good source until now.... the internet. I wonder if there's any good material on Dragons here.....
When I find anything I'll let you know!

[Elfa Wylde]

Here are four sites I found just running the basic search "Dragons in Magickal work"
I think all four tell you to get 'Dancing' LOL good book. So far though nothing new has popped up.

http://www.colba.net/~tempest1/dragons.htm
http://www.draconian.com/home/frameset.htm
http://www.geocities.com/spring_dragon13/dragonmagick.html
http://www.tsrt.net/page15.html