Drugs in Spell casting and Rituals

[Sunday's Child]

What is the general view of mixing drugs ( natural drugs) with spell casting or rituals? no I'm not a druggie, just a question. Does it enhance the experience or boggle the mind?

[Mairwen]

Anybody comes to one of our rituals drugged or drunk (regardless of their purpose or reasoning) isn't let through the front door.

[Lavender]

Originally posted by Sunday's Child
What is the general view of mixing drugs ( natural drugs) with spell casting or rituals? no I'm not a druggie, just a question. Does it enhance the experience or boggle the mind?

Hi Sunday, I didn't welcome you earlier (forgot my manners there). Welcome! Are you refering to herbs or mind-altering-illegal-type drugs? There are herbs that you can take as a tea to to calm & prepare yourself that aren't harmful to your body. I think it's one thing to do that & quite another to take a drug so that you're not in full control anymore.

[Sunday's Child]

hello, yes Iam talking about natural drugs, herbs,etc. Aren't some natural drugs mind altering like peyote, jimsonweed, etc. Didn't Castaneda say Don Juan used drugs as a way of leading his people to "see" the world outside the culture and lingustic constraints of Westren rationalism,unencumbered by conditioned preconceptions or the taint of personal history?
Sorry, just rattling again.

[Mariposa De La Luna]

I always seem to see these questions after we just talked about it in class.

Drugs need not be used in ritual or spell casting. If you have the desire for those experiences with time and practice you can achieve them on your own.

Drugs are a shortcut to "enlightenment". Its is not a good thing. If you, mind and body, are not prepared you can burn yourself out. My teacher says that some people who are in asylums but are basically shells were put there because of this, too many drugs in the 60's. The other problem is that you start becoming dependent upon the drugs and want to reach that higher level more often. We were also talking about chakras and the Kundalini in particular. When you awaken the Kundalini you have this wonderful spiritual release or something, maybe someone else can explain it better. But if you haven't cleared your chakras of all thier gunky buildup its like putting a fire hose in a clogged drain and turning on it full blast, too much too soon, spiritual explosion.

Well then you can bring up Native Americans and others who may use mind altering sunstances more regularly. For one, they have a different mindset and cultural experience that may have prepared them for it as they were growing up. For two, they have lots of training and knowledge about those things that I cannot begin to comprehend how extensive it may be. Most of those cultures/societies have many hundreds of years behind them if not thousands.

[loopy]

Here's my personal view, just 'cause I'm in one of those moods. :D

I don't feel drugs are needed for ritual.


If you have the desire for those experiences with time and practice you can achieve them on your own --SAHM

I wholeheartedly agree. Sometimes the shortcuts are not the most fulfilling in the end. And there are SO many ways things can go wrong--overdosing on a harmful drug, or even not and having it react in your body in unexpected ways that could could lead to harm and death. And if not that, then it could lead to addiction.

Of course, I suppose there's an exception to every rule--someone very experienced in the matter would might find it not at all a risk. <shrug> Personal preference, I guess.

[MystyPines]

Well, I have experienced both "straight" and "under the influence" rituals, and I have to say doing it sober is the best way to go. I actually can't remember the Samhain ritual very well, and now know drug free is the way to go!!!!!!!

Bright Blessings!

[Lavender]

Originally posted by Sunday's Child
hello, yes Iam talking about natural drugs, herbs,etc. Aren't some natural drugs mind altering like peyote, jimsonweed, etc. Didn't Castaneda say Don Juan used drugs as a way of leading his people to "see" the world outside the culture and lingustic constraints of Westren rationalism,unencumbered by conditioned preconceptions or the taint of personal history?
Sorry, just rattling again.

Yes, such herbs like peyote & jimsonweed, etc are natural. Even such herbs have medicinal properties but are very dangerous in inexperienced hands. Unfortunately, most people thinks that just because it's natural means its safe. We know that's not the case. I mean, look at arsenic...that's a natural substance. My opinion is that if using that herb or drug in a ritual has the potential to kill or harm you, then you shouldn't use it.

I do see you point, though. I'm talking about chamomile & hyssop tea, you're talking about peyote. They're both outside substance that is being used for a similar purpose. It's a fine line between the two...I mean, it really depends on where you put the line. :D Ok, I guess it was my turn to ramble on...

[Sunday's Child]

Hey, thanks for the input. I myself don't use mind altering drugs or herbs for rituals or spells but, I know people that do. I do however use other herbs in my everyday life for just about anything and everything,haha.

[mol]

I usually like to have a VERY clear head when I am using any kind of Magick, especially of the Ritualistic genre. Although, I am know to throw some chaos into the mix now and again. I can say that in some instances (depending on the nature of the ritual) that 'mid-expanding' drugs can have some interesting affects on the Work. But, all of this can be done through meditation...so it really is just a shortcut as said before. I dont really recommend it. But if you are going to do it. Please KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

[Sunday's Child]

Please know what you are doing? Sorry, I rarely know what I'm doing. Does anybody,really?

[Mairwen]

We do have a note in our Ritual Lore that states what I've already said. But there is a small addendum that says that sometimes mind-altering agents are used by Elders who are experienced and well-trained in such matters for specific things. In my 9 years with the Gwyddoniad, I've never seen nor heard of anyone doing such a thing. It's totally unnecessary.

[magicbabs]

When you awaken the Kundalini you have this wonderful spiritual release or something, maybe someone else can explain it better....
Well then you can bring up Native Americans and others who may use mind altering sunstances more regularly. For two, they have lots of training and knowledge about those things that I cannot begin to comprehend how extensive it may be.

OKay - She is so correct about the Kundalini experience. It is SO awesome. Most of my gifts that I am allowed to use are Kundalini based. This is very powerful healing energy. However, the best way to learn about Kundalini is not through books, but by taking Kundalini Yoga. This was the best for me. Books don't guide you through it as well as a teacher. Also, Kundalini is confused with "sex magic" and sexual tantric practice. Kundalini is different.

As far as doing Peyote - most natives won't allow no-natives to do the drug. There are a lot of natives that believe that Don Juan was basically "pulling Carlos' leg" with what he was shown.

Also, Don Juan was a sorcerer and not a basic magic worker.

Hey - we should open a thread on Carlos/Don Juan....

Anyway - I personally don't believe in doing any mind altering drugs (natural or not). When you are dealing with casting, magic, spellworking, unknown energies----you need your full wits about you BABY!!

Most of the people that use drugs that DON'T practice magic - have spirits attached to them. Much less a person that is a practicing pagan that is welcoming the spirits to help.

My opinion - which is just an opinion is - if you can't reach a spiritual high on your own without drugs - you shouldn't be practicing a path..

But you know the quote about opinions -

Good Luck,
Babs

[mol]

Originally posted by Mairwen
We do have a note in our Ritual Lore that states what I've already said. But there is a small addendum that says that sometimes mind-altering agents are used by Elders who are experienced and well-trained in such matters for specific things. In my 9 years with the Gwyddoniad, I've never seen nor heard of anyone doing such a thing. It's totally unnecessary.

I agree. The effects of drugs (as mind-expanding/altering) can be achieved through meditation, etc. The use of drugs in Magick and Ritual is totally unneccessary.

My opinion.

[mol]

Originally posted by Sunday's Child
Please know what you are doing? Sorry, I rarely know what I'm doing. Does anybody,really?

Yes. I usually know what I am doing.

[Mairwen]

Originally posted by mol
I agree. The effects of drugs (as mind-expanding/altering) can be achieved through meditation, etc. The use of drugs in Magick and Ritual is totally unneccessary.

My opinion.

Yup. Which is why I expound the fact that anyone showing up to any of our rituals under the influence of drugs or alcohol is absolutely not allowed in, for any reason.

[Sunday's Child]

okay Mol, just kidding, I feel very much that you and others here, know what you are doing, otherwise I wouldn't be spending this much time here asking so many silly questions...

[magicbabs]

Your question was definately not silly. I would have asked the same thing. I just have been doing this a long time and I have been burned a good bit.

My teacher said "No question is silly".

[magicbabs]

Also - I tried the altered state magic....it did not work as well as the clear head magic. It just works better for most people I know.

Babs

[Draedon]

Originally posted by Sunday's Child
What is the general view of mixing drugs ( natural drugs) with spell casting or rituals? no I'm not a druggie, just a question. Does it enhance the experience or boggle the mind?

Cannabis is great for meditation and psychic development.

[Myst]

The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked especially in a forum such as this, wherein several friendly, knowledgeable people are willing to help. :)

As my mother told me, she had to take (legal) drugs in a health situation at one time or another and can't understand why people would volunteer themselves to feel that way. I would prefer meditation over trying anything, but then that's my opinion. If it's understood that no one can arrive at a coven meeting under the influence then it's just a matter of respect that dictates you should never arrive under the influence, period.