very disturbed...

[Raven Moon]

Merry Meet (although I'm not too merry at the moment)

I found a huge list of links about Paganism and Wicca having to do with abortions for sacrifices, bloodletting and burning also. I found nothing but bad things on this topic and find this very hard to swallow. I can not find a thing about this on any of the Pagan sites I come across. It had something to do with a Witch in France named Giniette Paris. (I think that is how you spell it) Who wrote a book about the religion having to do with abortions and sacrifices and Artemis. Ohhh I;m so upset I'm jumbling words. Please someone help me out on this I'm so distraught.
*sniffle* <and a tear drops> RavenMoon@1witch.com

Love and Light
Raven Moon

[Kaylara]

http://www.forerunner.com ? if so, don't worry about it, it's a fundamentalist christian website... They will put out any kind of slanderous information, to prove to each other, and in their own minds that they are correct. That witches' sacrifice babies, etc, etc, etc... I'm not saying that what they are doing is right, but there is freedom of speech. They can say what they want, and we can say what we want...
Even though we do not agree with them, and they do not agree with us, at least we can each voice these opinions! How horrible it would be if one of our opposing groups was not allowed to speak their opinion anymore!

Blessed Be!
Kaylara

[mol]

Originally posted by Raven Moon
Merry Meet (although I'm not too merry at the moment)

I found a huge list of links about Paganism and Wicca having to do with abortions for sacrifices, bloodletting and burning also. I found nothing but bad things on this topic and find this very hard to swallow. I can not find a thing about this on any of the Pagan sites I come across. It had something to do with a Witch in France named Giniette Paris. (I think that is how you spell it) Who wrote a book about the religion having to do with abortions and sacrifices and Artemis. Ohhh I;m so upset I'm jumbling words. Please someone help me out on this I'm so distraught.
*sniffle* <and a tear drops> RavenMoon@1witch.com

Love and Light
Raven Moon

Please dont read that drivel. I am on a Pagan list that had that circulating myself and it sickened me. It sickened me because I have not one clue why other people following other paths can call themselves righteous when all they do is try to hurt.

One of my mottos is May Love and Light surround you...does this sound like a motto of a killer?

i am sorry if i seem harsh, but this really does make me sad. And angry. White hot power rising through my spine...that is screaming to be directed.

But...Love. Love is the best policy and that is what shall be.

[Twig]

Dry your tear my Friend. I can assure you that the only thing me or ANY of the druids I know have sacrificed is a pint of beer To the Earth Mother and the Gods.;) To do otherwise would contradict everything we[I] belive in. :)
Peace,
Twig

[mol]

And I was really, really...disturbed. Disturbed by the HATE that this website is promoting. Now, I know quite a bit about the Christian Path and this is NOT what it promotes. And the late Jesus of Nazareth is turning in his grave right now. The only time I ever read anything hateful come from that man's lips was when he walked into a TEMPLE of GOD and started turning over the tables. Yelling and screaming at so-called followers of God.

In fact, he once talked to a Pagan and told the crowd around him that if that any of them had as much faith as he.......

I will stop there, before I go too far.

[snappyglitz]

Just Trust, Know and Listen to your own Heart. Do not be shaken from your Own path by the crap that is spread around in cyberspace. Many religions use scare tactics and crap as which you have read to retain and control their followers.

Be strong...Trust, Know and Listen to your Heart..The Goddess and God will assist you.

[Ariannon]

I agree with SnappyGlitz on this subject. It is nothing but propoganda. The ignorant (and I don't mean that in the bad sense) unkowingly believe what is printed and shown on a TV or on the Internet with out a benefit of a doubt. They believe it's all been thouroughly researched or why would these people say/show these things. It must be true or some official somewhere would stop it. That is why I believe that each Pagan should try to educate those interested in Paganism (whether they are Pagan or not) to show that this kind of stuff is misinformation and to clean our muddied name.

Ariannon

[Moondragon]

Unfortunatley I have seen many of these also. I even had an article forwarded to me by a friend about a group in texas who had a baptist preacher accusing they killed their babies and drank thier blood...ew.....what sickened me the most is our good 'ol new president back him. makes me worry about the future personally.

I have seen much hate in my time as a pagan I have been accused of being possesed of the devil, evil, a satanist, been dumped because of being pagan, a drug dealer, had my religious jewelry ripped from my neck & books confenscated, nearly expelled from high school, been publically shunned just to name a few. But then I grew up in small town hickville UT,USA. I never dress extreme aka all black, peirced, wild outrageous make up jobs. I looked like every other kid.
just my two cents

[Lynnaea]

Moondragon, I have heard that Utah is a religious state. With the Mormons in control of most everything. Is this true? I have talked to Wiccans from Utah who said how hard it was to practice in Utah.

I also have come across that horrible site about sacrificing and drinking blood, the fundies make up things about us because they feel they have to compete, like it's their way or no way. Just as they have been doing for the last 2 millenium, they use lies and threats in hope of destroying us. What they are doing is so far from what their founder, Jesus of Nazareth, tried to teach. I think Jesus was an enlightened soul trying his best to teach a loving way of life, it is too bad most Christians don't follow his path.

[mol]

Originally posted by Lynnaea
threats in hope of destroying us. What they are doing is so far from what their founder, Jesus of Nazareth, tried to teach. I think Jesus was an enlightened soul trying his best to teach a loving way of life, it is too bad most Christians don't follow his path.

He was not THEIR founder. He was a man that was trying to teach a Path...they made it into Religion.

[Moondragon]

Well,
Yes it is true that the mormon religion runs the state and everything in it. Most people thier are not tolerant of people who's viewpoints are differnt from their norm. But most of what I was talking about was an interection I had with a certain group of baptists which call themselves "the ROCK" they are a extreme religious group who a violent both pyscially and verbally. They are high standing in the community and thier numbers are quite vast and span many states.Thier target was homosexuals, bisexuals, they looked down on anyone not baptist, were violent to anyone not christian. I wasn't the only pagan to be harassed by them. They teach thier members to only trust thier own, including group exercises, mass hypnosis, drug use, Thieving and selling of goods they take from thier targets. Before they identified me as pagan I was dating one before I knew what they were was even attempted to be assimilated into thier group. These people I can't stress enough how dangerous they are. They iniatate alot of thier members at junior high/high school age.

Several of my friends and I had encounters with them. Two came to a physical confrontation. One of my friends was beaten and bloodied, his pagan books and ritual items burned and forced to watch thier hate material. All becaseu he was Pagan and Homosexual. I had one attack me singuarly and was able to fend them off my friend was attacked by a group of them. There are alot of people who dress like pagans who are not to piss off that group which makes it hard for real pagans to actually find a group.

Alot of Teenagers still dress like pagans to rebel against the mormons and mommy and daddy. But "The Rock" I would have to say is the worst thing there. The Mormons have come to a tolerance I guess of the pagans they don't like the pagans but they aren't as fanatical.

[lynx]

RavenMoon

I to am new to all of this. I have learned of many terrible things that people have done in the name of WICCA, WITCHES, and what have you. I have also seen acts of hatred, rage, and revenge with these eyes that do not judge.

I, however, have proof of the truth I am about to tell you.

Fact: Fear of the unknown is why the unknown stays the unknown.

Myth: All unknown is evil.

Fact: People will do as they will no matter the religion or belief that they hold.

Myth: People of different (meaning not the same as everyone else's) religions are evil and do evil.

I hope these truths will give aid to your troubles.

I leave you with this last thought.....

Everyone knows the truth, deep down inside.

[Trevi]

Y'know, I have come across many bad things on the web about
wicca and I have chosen to ignore them all. I know, in my heart what is right and decent, and no matter what they try to say, I know I do not drink blood or sacrifice babies to anyone! I have lost jobs and friends because I have argued this point. I even walked into a local Kmart and a woman who worked there noticed the pentacle around my neck, screamed, hit the floor on her knees, and took out a rosary! She made the sign of the cross in the air in front of me and started praying to God to forgive and save me! I went to the manager to complain and she said "Oh, I know who that is... she's just very religous." AND I'M NOT!?!? Just because we do not share the same religon doesn't make me any less religous! Many people need to realize that we are all different but we all feel the same emotions.

[Semele]

It is not only pagan folks who stand out in Utah, but as I understand it, all other religions. I have a close family friend who is a Baptist preacher. He started a church in Salt Lake City and has had numerous death threats from the mormon church. I am glad to say though, that they were just that, threats. He has stuck it out and now they are somewhat tolorant as they have come to realize this is his calling and he will not leave.

Semele

[Shatav]

Originally posted by mol
Disturbed by the HATE that this website is promoting.

Isn't it funny that so many web-hosts and web-nannies have engines that prevent hate sites, but a site like this, just dripping with hate is allowed to exist, and is not considered hate, but truth?

Sad, so very sad...

[VickiSharon]

We have recently moved to Utah. We live in a retirement community that is 90% Morman. I walk my path very quietly. As I begin to meet some of the folks here I realize more of us non-mormans are moving in.Since I am so new on the path,I just do my prayers to the Goddess each day. I was raised Hell and Damination Babtist and I know what they think about anyone who might be different.Thanks goodness I have found my true path and I just know I will find someone here of like thinking.

[Moondragon]

We lived there for several yrs close to salt lake we could point you to some local groups if you want....

Moondragon

[lynx]

I can not picture how one would say that there is hate in this site. I see only questions wishing to be answered by giving of thought.

I am honored to be able to have questions of hate asked and answers be found. Not many have the ability to put fear and hate into questions. To bad, too. If it were possible for others to do so, then maybe there would be less violence.

The true sadness, is when the question is never asked!


Lynx })i({

[VickiSharon]

Merry Meet, Thanks so much. It would be wonderful to find some connections here in Utah. I live in Hurricane, Utah.I would love to learn and to share with someone what I have learned too. Blessed Be, VickiSharon

[Raven Moon]

I just wanted to thank everyone who replied tho this thread. Some I agreed with and others rattled my brain. But thanks a bunch guys (and chickys) much appreciated! :)

[mol]

Originally posted by lynx
I can not picture how one would say that there is hate in this site. I see only questions wishing to be answered by giving of thought.

I am honored to be able to have questions of hate asked and answers be found. Not many have the ability to put fear and hate into questions. To bad, too. If it were possible for others to do so, then maybe there would be less violence.

The true sadness, is when the question is never asked!


Lynx })i({

I think you are referring to me saying I was disturbed by the Hath that this site was promoting....I was talking about the Fundie site...not this one. ;)

Just an fyi. Hehe.

[VickiSharon]

Merry Meet. Being new to the state of Utah.I would love to know some contacts here. Moon Dragon if you could do this,I sure would appreciate. I have walked this path alone and I would love to learn and share with others, Blessed Be, VickiSharon

[Shatav]

Originally posted by mol

I think you are referring to me saying I was disturbed by the Hate that this site was promoting....I was talking about the Fundie site...not this one. ;)


Oh, yes, that's what I was talking about too! Gosh, no, not this site here at all! MysticWicks is my home away from home. ;)

[Fairywolf]

I personally can not believe some of the things I have read about on this subject and am appalled at the thought that it is allowed to go on. I personally have ben able to grow up in a household where I have been supported in what ever I choose to do as long as I believed it to be right. I have just gotten started in to this but I am glad to say even though my mom is a christian she would support me. i just don't understand how people who don't undertand something can degrade it to the point they have been doing so all over the world and that they have been getting by with hurting people just to try to prove a point that they might not even fully understand but tring to get others to believe.

wolf : l

[Yvonne Belisle]

In this world there are some really sick individuals. Unfortunately when they twist something around they make others look very bad. You will find them in every path. Sadly enough just as we tend to remember things that move us with joy we also remember things that move us with horror. This simply means that if one sick individual kills someone in a very gruesome way and they happen to be of a particular religion it gets associated with that religion. What we tend to forget in our horror of this is that we are religious groups that have not had large public relations departments to counter the hate of those who see us as different. Thus we have not been able to effectively counter the lies perpetuated by ignorance and hate. Times are changing but they will not change overnight. In the past there have been cults that have perverted ideas into a struggle for power over others often for lack of another term they called themselves witches. You must remember that, that is not what they were merely what they were called in peoples minds and words. These things have given us a reputation in some groups that is completely undeserved. FOLLOW YOUR HEART it will lead you through the morass of false information that is out there.

[Trevi]

I wholeheartedly agree, as I'm sure you will find many here do.

Hazzah! :)

[Moondragon]

Unfortunately I was in the Salt lake city area but I still know some people in utah and some pagan groups there.

Quickbeam-Wiccan
Stonecircle-wiccan

I will also be in slc, utah on wensday this week I can do some checking when I go to visit my family.

[lynx]

Sorry, I got a little confused. I guess I'm a little boggled just thinking about how some people can be. Religious or not. I just don't have the words to tell you how I feel, except, WOW!! What in the world?:(

Tossed into the dark.

Lynx

[Amora]

This is a fine time to practice not believing everything you read!

BLESSED BE!!!

[Yvonne Belisle]

:)

[spiritguide]

Well,
Yes it is true that the mormon religion runs the state and everything in it. Most people thier are not tolerant of people who's viewpoints are differnt from their norm..


Ok ok yes im mormon but yes im druid also sigh bashing other religions though is not the thing to do why cant we all just get along i was raised in a mormon family they are not all quite what ya think as to them ruling the state you can only rule you if you let them (laughs my feince is mormon strait forward and she knows about my druidism half and she is the best person in the world she has never looked down on me cause im different i guess its all in the eyes of the beholder.......... points out also if your wondering being druid and mormon at the same time yes its possible kinda confusing but its possible so please no more bashing weither small or big none of the gods and goddesses like it why let your self stoop down to that low level of ignorance
S.G.
let your path be shaded from the sun

[HorseCrow]

There are Pagan-bashing sites like that all over. Homophobia is a sad disease.
I'm Pagan AND I'm a midwife- and I have NEVER come across anything like that despite having free access to babies and abortions. It is completely untrue, so don't believe it.

[elfmage]

I agree that religious intolerance is stupid, pointless, and often downright disgusting. However, I have a few point to make, although I will probably be shot for them.

1) Religious freedom means ALL religions. Yes is does, as so often quoted by Pagans. Who then turn around and attack Christianity. All religions includes Christianity. Yeah, the church can be right bastards at times, but hey, it is their FREEDOM to practice that religion!

2) Having someone pray for your soul is not the end of the world. It shows that they are truly concerned for your eternal soul (usually.........sometimes they are just being gits), which is touching, even if it does get annoying. Anyway, what is it going to do? Contaminate you with Christianity? Grow up.

Sorry if I am just ranting (bad mood warning), it just strikes me that maybe people need to consider these things.

Cheers,
Elf

[Kaylara]

*shakes head at ancient thread*

[spiritguide]

yes but sometimes the ancient stuff is all anyone has to talk about these days

[Mab]

And I was really, really...disturbed. Disturbed by the HATE that this website is promoting. Now, I know quite a bit about the Christian Path and this is NOT what it promotes. And the late Jesus of Nazareth is turning in his grave right now. The only time I ever read anything hateful come from that man's lips was when he walked into a TEMPLE of GOD and started turning over the tables. Yelling and screaming at so-called followers of God.

In fact, he once talked to a People and told the crowd around him that if that any of them had as much faith as he.......

I will stop there, before I go too far.
Thanks for that, Mol. As a Christian, I find it horrific some of the things ppl who OBVIOUSLY don't follow this religion do in the name of it! I mean...I'm sorry, but I can't swallow that all this stuff is done in God's name---persecuting others, putting out blatant hateful propoganda! Now, granted, I don't believe Jesus is turning in his grave over this. I beleive He's sitting in Heaven going "WHAT THE HELL??? I told them 'hate the sin, love the sinner'. I told them 'judge not lest ye be judged'. I told them 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' Obviously some of them DID NOT LISTEN. I never preached hate!!!" And I firmly believe ppl that put out crap like "witches sacrifice babies" and "Wicca is a Satanic, demon-worshipping religion that needs to be stamped out & it's practitioners burned/hanged/otherwise destroyed" are just hateful ppl who would be that way no matter what religion they practice---and they will get what's coming to them.

God & Goddess in Heaven---it just sickens me & amazes me how horribly perverse & disturbing the human mind can be.

[Gwynna Star]

Yes, this sickens me also...

I have theory on Fundamentalist Christians who come up with these "hate" websites or the evangelists on TV who talk about the evils of Harry Potter...

I believe that *some* of these people like to have an enemy that they can point at, so they feel better about themselves, and it proves how "right" they are over other people. Some folks just have this type of personality. Scary as it is... :ahhhh:

I'm not trying to make excuses for them... But, this is something I wonder about... :eyebrow:

[Mab]

Yes, this sickens me also...

I have theory on Fundamentalist Christians who come up with these "hate" websites or the evangelists on TV who talk about the evils of Harry Potter...

I believe that *some* of these people like to have an enemy that they can point at, so they feel better about themselves, and it proves how "right" they are over other people. Some folks just have this type of personality. Scary as it is... :ahhhh:

I'm not trying to make excuses for them... But, this is something I wonder about... :eyebrow:
yep. I agree. Doesnt' matter the path, some ppl just are big bullies who like to point fingers at others to make themselves feel better.

[Keroberos]

That fundie site that was posted, I looked around it a bit, and they actually equate organ donation with human sacrefice!!!! The people at this site are completely out of their minds!!!!

I do agree that many of the people who follow religions spawned by these wise prophets (ie Jesus or Muhammed) don't actually follow the wisdom of the prophets they profess to pray to. Loving your fellow man despite their differences isn't hard to do. Actually it's a lot easier than hating everyone who's different. I just don't understand people sometimes.

[Shugo]

I beleive in freedom of speach just as much as everyone else, but I also beleive it should have limits. It simply doesn't make sense to me to use freedom of speach to defend this sort of filth. I mean, have we really convinced ourselves that the founding fathers of the US would have approved of this sort of thing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought part of what this country was founded on was freedom of religion, which includes the right for people to practice any faith and feel secure from hate.