Parental Difficulties

[MystIc_WolF]

Ok, this is really starting to piss me off. I started studying Wicca at the end of last school year (I used to be christian, or catholic, I'm not really sure which, we used to go to christian and catholic services interchangeably, but not very often.). My mom is christian (not sure which denomination, don't care), my brother used to be christian, but was confirmed into the Catholic faith after he went off to college at a catholic university in Portland, and my dad is extremist agnostic, as in there is no god, science is infallible, agnostic. Well, I figured, "I'm gonna be asertive(?spelling?) and come right out and tell my family I'm pagan". I thought this would be the best way to go about it. Well, as usual I was wrong, neither of my parents took it that well in the beginning, thankfully these days they don't say anything unless I bring it up, or am dumb enough to not tuck my pentacle into my shirt. However they still seem to be of the belief that there is an age restriction of 18 on the freedom of religion portion of the bill of rights, and insist on informing me of this every chance they get. However, recently my mom showed some interest in learning what my religion was really about, (actually she said something along the lines of "I'm not sure I'm comfortable with you choice in religions, I'd appreciate it if you could find me a good, short book on wicca so I can see what you're getting yourself into" like I was still a preschooler and couldn't think for myself). Well, I got her Cunningham's "Wicca & Witchcraft Today" or whatever its called, read it, so I could discuss it with her if she had questions, then gave it to her, and asked her to read it as soon as she had a chance. Well, it's been about two weeks, I've asked her a couple times if she has read it yet, and she has an excuse every time. Then a couple days ago, my brother, who is convinced that he is my surrgate father since my dad is out of it most of the time (he drinks and smokes cigars all day) he's beat me and punished me before without consulting my parents, but thats for another thread entirely. Anyway, a couple days ago, he comes into my room, sees an issue of Widdershins lying on my desk, and says something to the effect "you know, mom and dad are convinced this is just a phase you're going through, and if you don't GET OVER IT (his exact words) soon, they'll make you.". Know, what I can't understand, and what I've tried to explain to my family, is that this isn't a phase. Why, in highschool, when I've got enough problems already, would I go through a phase that would single me out even more? I'm hoping that either my brother is using my parents to inform me of his opinions, or not giving me the whole truth (he has done this before, and I can't stand it). Basically, I'm asking for advice on how to deal with the situation, I have never felt any connection to christianity, and feel like I fit in perfectly in Wicca, this isn't a phase, but my family refuses to accept this.

:rant:

[Kaylara]

Well, recently my grandmother asked me if I was still into the Wicca thing... I explained to her that yes, indeed, I am. And no, it's not a phase I'm going through. (After 9 years...) Especially being young, and just getting started, your family may continue to believe that it's just a phase for years. Unfortunately, there's no way that you can change their perception on this if they don't want to. And, as far as I know, in the USA at least, the legal age to change your religion of your own accord is somewhere between 13 and 16. I'll have to check my facts on this. In the meantime, just don't make it obvious. Go about your religious practices quietly, and in private, and things shoud get better.

[Aidron]

Here's my advice, though you may not like it:

You stated you do not care what denomination your mother belongs to. Well, if you do not show others that you care about their faith and respect it, how can you expect them to do the same? Granted, you may have merely phrased this inaccurately to how you truly feel, but be careful, people often underestimate the affect words have on our lives.

If your mother is going to read a book on Wicca, try reading an equal portion of the bible. Suggest that you both do this routinely, then once a week or once a month, sit down and discuss your thoughts from what you gathered. In fact, you could do this with your entire family. It's merely one way of turning everyone's differences that are apparently driving them apart into a catalyst to pull you together. That is what witchcraft is all about, taking what you are given and using it to affect positive change in your life. Lucky you that you do not need herbs, candles, or anything, only patience and understanding, as well as they do.

I'm not saying you'll fix every dysfunctional behavior in your family overnight. I've been working on mine for six years and it appears as though I've gotten little done with these nutcases. :lol:

[MystIc_WolF]

Well, I guess what bothers me about my mom, is the fact that she wasn't very religious until a couple years ago when we started going to church again. I didn't even know what denomination she was until last year (and no, its not that I don't care, I just don't remember and don't think it should make that much of a difference in this situation). She doesn't pray at all, we don't pray before meals, I've never seen either my mom or brother read the bible even though my mom has two copies of it in her home office. It almost seems like she's just using it to control me. I've noticed over the years that my immediate family seems to be scared to death about anything outside the norm, my mom says that she's ok with me making my own decisions and encourages me to have my own opinions, and yet when I do, unless I agree with her, the opinion is wrong. I'm really starting to get fed up with how my family treats me, and they say I'm the immature one!

PS: Kaylara, I'm almost 17, how do I go about changing my religion, do I have to go through the courts? Just curious.

[Aidron]

Well, I guess what bothers me about my mom, is the fact that she wasn't very religious until a couple years ago when we started going to church again. I didn't even know what denomination she was until last year (and no, its not that I don't care, I just don't remember and don't think it should make that much of a difference in this situation). She doesn't pray at all, we don't pray before meals, I've never seen either my mom or brother read the bible even though my mom has two copies of it in her home office. It almost seems like she's just using it to control me. I've noticed over the years that my immediate family seems to be scared to death about anything outside the norm, my mom says that she's ok with me making my own decisions and encourages me to have my own opinions, and yet when I do, unless I agree with her, the opinion is wrong. I'm really starting to get fed up with how my family treats me, and they say I'm the immature one!

PS: Kaylara, I'm almost 17, how do I go about changing my religion, do I have to go through the courts? Just curious.


Perhaps she sees no need to pray or read the bible. You really should not judge how she goes about her religious practices. She is doing as much or as little as she wants, apparently, so let her be content with that. Not all pagans celebrate the sabbats or esbats, for example, and it is the same principle.

If in your eyes, your immediate family is scared of anything outside the 'norm', as you put it, do as Kaylara suggested and go about your spiritual practices quietly and in private. If your family so obviously has a problem with your chosen path, leave it at that and keep it to yourself. After all, you're doing this for you, not them and no one needs to be fine with it but you.

As for how your family treats you, some people never mature. It's just a fact of life. If that is how your family is, simply let them be immature and keep to yourself as often as possible since I doubt you could move out.

As for changing your religion, I have never heard of this. I admit I'm no lawyer or expert on the American legal system, but freedom to worship usually extends to all, and there is no age requirement. I have never heard of anyone needing to go to court to 'change' their religion, that would not be in keeping with seperation of church and state.

[Rina]

Just as a completely aside point...

YOU HAVE TO LEGALLY CHANGE YOUR RELIGION IN THE US???

How weird. There is nothing like that in the UK. If you're baptised, or christened, or whatever, there is no legal binding to it, and there is no need to inform the authorities about it.
I find it odd, and quite disturbing that religion has to have that degree of officiality in America?!

[MystIc_WolF]

Thanks Raven_Windsong, you just helped me realise something that I should have learned a long time ago. For some reason even though I've always had different views on just about everything from my parents, but for some reason I've still attempted to be accepted by my family in everything I do. I guess it just took someone coming out and telling me for me to realise that I don't need acceptance of any part of my life from my family, and really, telling them right off and seeking acceptance of my religious beliefs is what started this whole thing.

[Traz Heart]

Well start by asking questions.

Like why they think it is a faze?
Then answer if their relgious belife is a faze?
when they say "No" answer with "What makes you so shure"
Then tell them why you are shure in your belifes.

Ask them if they would feal different if you were muzlim or jewish or catholic?
They will try to back out of this question or avoid it by saying "there is a differance"
reply by asking "what makes one belife more valid then the other? is it the amount of people
that belive in it? Is it that it is not politicaly correct to say that their religion is wrong in your
mind? What is the line between religions?"


I think you get the picture Pm me if ya need to talk to someone



Use the way of talking only if your parents start to lay into you hard.

Well your answer is as simple as this.
Go to the school library. They should have a unedited version of the bill of rights there.

Show your parents the freedom of religion part.
If they say "well you are in my house and my house is my rules"
ask them "is this house in the USA?"
If they answer YEs
say "Then I have the freedom of religion"
If they say something to the effect of "Well you are in my house...ect"
or "if you dont like it leave"

Here is what you can say.
"Fine I will leave. BUT you will be hearing from my lawer about you denying my freedom of
religion." (this has been done before and the person who is being denied this right allways wins
no matter what religion)

if they say my house my rules
say "My country their rules"

[schadenfreude]

Coming straight from a used to be dysfunctional teen and a very dysfunctional family .. here goes my piece of two cents :ballonsmi

Everyone is different. My parents believe in 'god' but never forced that upon me. I do not believe in 'god' as most of the population does. Sometimes .. people have points in their lives where they *snap* .. or *need* a crutch to fall back on .. If your mother has gone through something .. or for some reason feels the need to have a faith or connection with something .. or someone .. something to believe in .. something to feel close to .. something that could help / protect her .. someone to always forgive her etc etc etc .. then that could be the reason why she has become more religious .. persay .. you know?

As for the father .. no kid comes with an instruction booklet. I should know .. I'm 26 .. and my daughter is now 7 years old. Kids are hard to handle .. they really are. Parents lose control of their kids nowadays .. they try to regain that control one way or another .. some use force .. some use abuse .. some use neglect .. some care .. some don't .. that's life .. and the cards that have been dealt.

As for ..respecting another's religion in hopes of them respecting yours .. I disagree with that one. I am a firm believer that .. you get respect .. by earning it. Period. No ifs .. ands .. or buts. If you don't respect their religion .. then don't. But .. they are your parents .. so in a way .. some how .. whether you see it or not .. they should have .. (possibly .. possibly not) earned your respect. So .. that's a window of a way to show respect to them..

As for .. them disapproving of your reading and current interests .. they're just doing what they feel they need to do to protect you and raise you right .. they're old .. you more than likely won't be able to change their minds .. so don't bother trying. Trust me .. (or not) .. I've tried .. some ppl won't budge .. so .. it's a waste of energy and time to try.

I don't believe in hiding things either .. but .. I do believe in walls. Possibly create one without deception? It's like .. (i know this is a vulgar way to place an example) .. Would you have sex in front of your mom or dad? Probably not! .. It would more than likely offend them .. this is the same thing .. sorta heh .. Out of sight ... out of mind. You know?

Good luck .. I can understand the hard times of age 17 .. I can. Maybe .. try to remain defensiveless .. so to speak .. don't rebutt .. Listen to what they have to say .. if certain comments .. talks won't help the situation .. then might as well not bother saying it .. you know?

Again .. all my warm feelings your way hunnie .. it's a hard path .. most teens go through it ..

[Traz Heart]

No there is no law on changing religion. only one is freedom of religion and it has no limits on it.

I could say I am a johovas witness and not be on in their mind.
But I have the right to do so because of my freedom of religion.

[Kaylara]

Oh sweet tap dancing Jesus honey... That's it!!!!! Spelling lessons when you get home tonight!

[Phoenix Blue]

She doesn't pray at all, we don't pray before meals, I've never seen either my mom or brother read the bible even though my mom has two copies of it in her home office. It almost seems like she's just using it to control me.
So because she doesn't act like a stereotypical, Bible-thumping fundie, she doesn't have any right to express her religion at all?

It could just be she's concerned for you and doesn't want you to get yourself into anything you might have a hard time getting out of later. Mothers are protective. :) Sometimes, mothers are overprotective. And while your first instinct is probably to tell her to mind your own business, sitting down and taking the time to have conversations with her about your religion and hers--and the similarities between them--will do a lot more for both of you in the long run.

[WingedTigerChild]

First off, I would address mom's concerns, but if she refuses to read up, give her an ultimatum or whatever. I am serious. Parents are not all-knowing gods and need a little reminder of that sometimes. Regarding dad, ignore him. My father is the same way...ignorant. As for your brother, tell him to get a life. Honestly, what a jerk. I'd have set him on fire or something.

[beautifuldisaster]

OH baby!!! I know what you are goin through with your parents...for the most part. I didnt inform my parents I was Wiccan . A third party did that for me... I was hoping to be the one to tell them that because peole are not generally ...how do you say...approving of my religious choices. Oh well things dont always work out how their supposed to obviously. My parents just made slightly frightening rude allusions to what I was supposedly doing and now were on a dont ask dont tell basis...It works for the most part. Right up until they get one of their sudden urges to go to church I am just fine...what can you do ...parents have their opinions and of course what they believe is ALWAYS right...didnt you kow that?lol My brother informed me that my mother got concerned that maybe I was sacrificing smalll children in my closet at night and went online and researched Wicca. My mom has an indirect way of solving things. He said that some of what she found was disturbing but she doesnt see me doing any of it...she really wants me to keep it under raps though. Im guessing she knows what a persecuted religion it is...I found that out first hand. However I think that because she cares about what I am doing and went online and researched on her own we are on level ground. As long as I dont bring up the fact that I am Wiccan to anyone I am free to practice.
My mom is one of those mothers that wants nothing more than for me to have tons of friends and be a perfectly normal millionaire on day... for some reason I dont think that Wicca fits in with her agenda...what can you do? Maybe your mom just needs an adjustment period.

[eighteenwheelwitch]

Hello there MysticWolf,

There's alot of good advice in what our friends here have posted already.

For my two cents; I'm a dad w/ a son and two daughters. THE most important thing in the mind of a parent is to make sure that their child doesn't get hurt. We (parents) FEAR :hairraise anything that we think may hurt our child and try to stop that thing we FEAR. All too often that fear comes through ignorance, (not stupidity, just a lack of knowledge).

If your Mom has shown some desire to understand your beliefs, that a great starting point. Try to educate her gently (we parental units are very fragile). Let her see that you are still the same loving, caring, etc. person that she has always known you to be. Ask her in all sincerity about HER ideas on "God" and religion. Let her see that you really desire to understand where she is coming from and then she may grow a desire to understand your ideas. It will take time. I know that at 17, time can seem to drag on forever and a day when you have an unmet desire.

B.T.W.... You are not alone in trying to have a parent understand your path. I am very recently out of the closet re: my spiritual path with my family. and guess what... My 'Mommy' wants to have a talk with me (age 36, w/wife and three kids) about my becoming a "witch or pagan or whatever you are now". That'll be this weekend.
My sainted mother will probably ask the following; "So your not a christian anymore?", :whatgives "Don't you see Jesus as your savior?", "Why are you doing this to me?", "well, what do you believe in then?", etc., etc., etc.
I'll then try to explain as well as I can. I'll remind Mom that I'm still the exact same person that I was before she became aware of the NAME of my path. I"ll remind her that she and Dad are the ones who gave me the ability to question deeply by their examples. I'll explain to Mom in what ways I still identify with aspects of Christianity and how even as a kid I would change the words of the prayers and creeds of our church in my own head to fit what I believed in my heart........ After all of this and more, Mom still won't understand :bangyourh ....But maybe she will. ... All that really matters is that I be true to myself.... I'll Let you know how it goes.

Brightest Blessings of understanding to you and your family. :wave:
eighteenwheelwitch.

[MystIc_WolF]

OH baby!!! I know what you are goin through with your parents...for the most part. I didnt inform my parents I was Wiccan . A third party did that for me... I was hoping to be the one to tell them that because peole are not generally ...how do you say...approving of my religious choices.

This is part of the reason I decided to tell my family myself, I figured it might go a little easier if it was me telling them and not a teacher or counselor from school or something. I guess in a way I was a bit naive in thinking they'd have no problem accepting me for who I am, my mom, like just about every other mother in the world, still sees me as the 6 year old that she needs to guide and protect almost 11 years ago. I guess its going to take a while to get her to move past that. Although I definitely think I'll take some of your guy's (and gals) advice, and see if I can have a bit of a discussion about my religious choice with my family. Maybe once they see that it isn't devil worship, and I'm really serious about it, they'll be willing to take my religious choice more seriously.