School Issue

[SnowyMoon]

My daughter came home from our public school to tell me that her World Culture teacher did the following:

She said, "Now, I know probably most of you in here are Christian. Raise your hand if you are Christian."

My daughter did not raise her hand.

The teacher said, "(daughter's name), you are not Christian?"

Daugther said, "I don't know."

:bastard:

Okay. First off, is it just me, or is it WRONG to put kids on the spot in a public school classroom to tell what spiritual path they are on? They are KIDS! That is like telling the class to raise their hands if they are gay or not. First off, they are too young to KNOW. Most of them are doing what their parents are doing or want them to, and most will not know who they really are until later in life. Second off, it is a PRIVATE issue. To learn about different beliefs is good, Christianity included; in fact, it is GREAT for kids. However, it is the showing of hands that bothered me. In mentioning the choices of religion, she never mentioned Paganism as a choice. :geez:

What was my daughter supposed to say (she is truely undecided on her own path and just learns about different paths for now)? What if there were Muslems, Bhuddists or others there. Do you think the other kids need to know who believes what publically so rumor mills can turn and peers and neighbors can ridicule them or otherwise mistreat them? That was crazy.

Any thoughts on this?

[mothwench]

My daughter came home from our public school to tell me that her World Culture teacher did the following:

She said, "Now, I know probably most of you in here are Christian. Raise your hand if you are Christian."

My daughter did not raise her hand.

The teacher said, "(daughter's name), you are not Christian?"

Daugther said, "I don't know."

:bastard:

Okay. First off, is it just me, or is it WRONG to put kids on the spot in a public school classroom to tell what spiritual path they are on? They are KIDS! That is like telling the class to raise their hands if they are gay or not. First off, they are too young to KNOW. Most of them are doing what their parents are doing or want them to, and most will not know who they really are until later in life. Second off, it is a PRIVATE issue. To learn about different beliefs is good, Christianity included; in fact, it is GREAT for kids. However, it is the showing of hands that bothered me. In mentioning the choices of religion, she never mentioned Paganism as a choice. :geez:

What was my daughter supposed to say (she is truely undecided on her own path and just learns about different paths for now)? What if there were Muslems, Bhuddists or others there. Do you think the other kids need to know who believes what publically so rumor mills can turn and peers and neighbors can ridicule them or otherwise mistreat them? That was crazy.

Any thoughts on this?

*joins in on rant* :rant: what i was wondering was: your daughter can't have been the only one not to raise her hand. this is one of those really nasty tricks grown-ups play on kids: she knows the majority of kids will raise their hands. she knows just how sucky it can be for other kids in the minority. she knows that these kids will just want to be normal, like everyone else...
:flamer: i see this as a disguised conversion tactic, and i would have her for that.

[SnowyMoon]

That is how I felt too... the not wanting to be in the minority thing. Made those who did not put up their hands feel....odd.
Is crazy. :(.

[SnowyMoon]

Daughter says she was the only one who did not raise her hand. Teacher asked her in front of the whole class, "You don't know what you are?" Sheesh!

[mothwench]

Daughter says she was the only one who did not raise her hand. Teacher asked her in front of the whole class, "You don't know what you are?" Sheesh!

damn! are you going to complain about this waste of a job vacancy? ;)

[SnowyMoon]

E-gads. There is a bit more. Teacher asked her if daughter knew what Easter was (Christian version). She said yes. She does know the Christian version. Teacher said, "You are definately Christian then."
OMGods and Goddesses! Unbelievable. I am getting mad now. Who is she to tell my daughter what she is? (runs around in a temper tandrum). Going to be making a trip to the school I see.

[Findarto]

E-gads. There is a bit more. Teacher asked her if daughter knew what Easter was (Christian version). She said yes. She does know the Christian version. Teacher said, "You are definately Christian then."
OMGods and Goddesses! Unbelievable. I am getting mad now. Who is she to tell my daughter what she is? (runs around in a temper tandrum). Going to be making a trip to the school I see.
That's messed up, make a trip to see the teacher for today.

[banondraig]

E-gads. There is a bit more. Teacher asked her if daughter knew what Easter was (Christian version). She said yes. She does know the Christian version. Teacher said, "You are definately Christian then."
OMGods and Goddesses! Unbelievable. I am getting mad now. Who is she to tell my daughter what she is? (runs around in a temper tandrum). Going to be making a trip to the school I see.

:rant: unFLIPPINGbelievable!!! that teacher needs to be fired so s/he can go teach at one of those bible academies, which is clearly what s/he thinks that PUBLIC school is!!!! things like that are why i am never sending my kids, should i have any, to public school. i mean, :sick: what a terrible attitude!! first to single a kid out like that, then to tell that kid her religion??!! i'd better stop, the rest of my views on this subject can only be expressed in lanuage completely unsuitable for an all-ages forum.

[mothwench]

:rant: unFLIPPINGbelievable!!! that teacher needs to be fired so s/he can go teach at one of those bible academies, which is clearly what s/he thinks that PUBLIC school is!!!! things like that are why i am never sending my kids, should i have any, to public school. i mean, :sick: what a terrible attitude!! first to single a kid out like that, then to tell that kid her religion??!! i'd better stop, the rest of my views on this subject can only be expressed in lanuage completely unsuitable for an all-ages forum.

but aren't private schools even worse for that? i went to a private school, and it was very religious. nativity plays at christmas, first holy comunion, the lot :sick:
i am stained! :rant: ;)

edited to add: teehee, i sent the same smilies you did without even realising! what a sick ranty thread this is!

[Mindflayer]

DEFFINATELY go to the principal about this, if he doesn't listen, go to the superintendant and the school board...



personally, if I was put in your daughters position, I would have started a riot and probably marched right down to the principal myself



EDIT: and the teacher shoudl realize, anyone who had someone that's Christian in their family, or even watched the History channel would know the true reason of Easter

[gyroWang]

I'd prolly march up to school and cause a big fight, not that i'm recommending that course of action :)

[LittleRhiannon]

oh my, If a teacher ever did that to me, I'd make a scene right in the classroom. I would go talk to the teacher. grrrrrrrr. I hope that never happens to me! btw, how old your daughter?

[~*Ginger*~]

DEFFINATELY go to the principal about this, if he doesn't listen, go to the superintendant and the school board...
I agree, go to the principle, talking to the teacher wouldn't be doing much of anything really, go over their head.
Keep your cool!

More than likely (the child) she's not gonna start any trouble on her own, and that's a good thing.

[Chibi-Fallon]

That's really odd. I know most teachers are really rather afraid of getting lawsuits thrown at them over this. How long has this person been teaching?
The sheer stupidity of this teacher is just amazing. It’d be interesting to know what was going through her mind as she asked that question.
banondraig don't judge public schools by this. Most of the time this sort of thing doesn't happen. It's like judging all teenagers by what you hear on the news. You'd think that all black males were in gangs. All white males were lazy rich boys who do nothing but smoke pot and have sex. And all girls (regardless of race) were whores. And that it was all the fault of the media (but not the news channels of course).
The *closest* thing to this I've ever experienced (in all 11 grades) is when we asked a teacher what their religion was. And for the most part they wouldn’t tell us until we hit high school.

[Autumn]

Holy smoke!

Likely this teacher was never odd girl out as a kid and has no clue what position she put your daughter in.

Complain bitterly and eleoquently about this it was extreamly unprofessional behavior...

[Ben Trismegistus]

Raise hell. And if anyone asks you what your religion is, or the religion of your daughter, tell them it's none of their goddamn business.

[redlady]

AAACH! I'm beside myself, I'm so BS'd. I'd ask the ACLU what they think (they must be good for something) and also pagan education bureaus, and believe it or not, by all means tell the ADL (Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish group) about this PUBLIC employee's behavior. What a flippin' A-hole!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crystal_Raye]

Thats just wrong to ask little innocent children these kind of questions, although there are times when I pray for MY teachers to ask this so I can finally come out and say who and what I truely am.

[SnowyMoon]

First off, I would like to start by thanking all of you for your support. :) You made me feel much stronger in tackling this issue. To answer a few of your questions, my daughter is 11-1/2, will be 12 in Feb. The school is a country school with a small population and includes the residents of 2 farming townships combined together in NE Ohio. The teacher has been in the district for quite some time. Hubby is 40, and he remembers her from when he was in school. Hubby is very supportive; he told me to tell them he is athiest. He is upset as well. I am going to be fully open with my spiritual path if they ask me. I see this as a sign that it is time to stand up for what I love and fully beleive in, and that means being open. ;). I really think it is the best way. Unfortunately, my mother had to have surgery today (breast biopsy), so I was unable to address it today; I will have to address it Monday, and I will be going to the school in person on Monday. I will state my issue, and request a confrontation with her with several witnesses. I won't stop until I am satisfied that this will NEVER happen again. I want her to understand that this was WRONG and why, and to protect children from being subject to anything of that sort from happening ever again. I will keep you all posted. What I feel this teacher did was hold her own version of the inquisition in her classroom, all that was missing were the stakes and the fire. I do also agree that she should be a Sunday School teacher, and not pushing her views in the public system.

My daughter is a bit less agressive than I am too, she likes to keep a more even keel. I would have raised a fuss too, if I had been in her shoes. ;).

Again, thank you so much for the support. I find comfort in that. :). I will keep you all posted as this goes along. Time to pick up the sward and be a warrior! ;) .

[Thistle]

SnowyMoon, that teacher was wrong to put your daughter on the spot like that. I would question the competence of a teacher who had so little idea of the meaning and application of separation of church and state. Ben is right, it's nobody's business.

Thank the Goddess, my daughter has graduated from the K-12 public school system. But I had to fight it out with them over things like this many times, even though my daughter was a straight A student, and wasn't disruptive in any way. (Go figure.)

Here are some tips for you from personal experience: Go to the teacher first. Then the principal. Then the superintendent. Then the school board. In that order. Choose your battles with the school carefully. If you go over someone's head, they'll just send you back down to them anyway. If school officials think you complain too much, they'll label you as a "troublemaker". If that happens, they won't listen to you, even if your complaints are justified. Not all school personnel are above taking their differences with you out on your kids. Sad, but true. It happened to us.

Good luck!!!!

Edited to add: Be sure to call what the teacher did "extremely unprofessional"

[Mnemosyne]

Remember that teachers are human and make mistakes. Is she a good teacher other than this incident? I would go to her first and tell her how you feel. Inform her that students come from various religious backgrounds. I don't know how it is in your state, but in CA, teachers need to have a culture certificate, CLAD, in order to get their teaching credential these days. In those classes, teachers learn about different religions and cultures.

[MotherMoon]

I would only make a big deal of it if your daughter is comfortable with that. You don't want to single her out even more, kwim? If she's comfortable with you making a big deal, do it. If not, maybe just mention something to the teacher or principal. *sigh* I'm so glad we're homeschooling!

[FaerieLuma]

:eek: :fpatricks Thats awful... A teacher is not supposed to ask children about their religion. If it was so important for her to know, then she should ask directly to their parents. :rant:

[boerbabe]

That's just wrong. I don't think anyone, reguardles sof age, but especially a child, should be put on the spot about anything so personal. Heck, at almost 23, I still don't know where I stand exactly!

I remeber being 5 or 6, and my Grandma coming up to me before bed, after I said my prayers. I remember she asked me if I believe in God, and I said yes. But I was scared to death that I'd get in trouble if I didn't say yes, same as if I didn't recite my "prayers" every night before bed.
Maybe the fact that I went to a private Christian school my first few years didn't hurt, that paddle with the holes in it hurt when you were getting whacked with it weekly!

Other then that, and that all ended by the time I was 7, there has never been even the slightest religious anything in my family of any sort. Your daughter has more guts to stand up for herself and not raise her hand then I had then.

I'd definatly go talk to the teacher, and let her know you're very unhappy with this, and your daughter was made very uncomfortable. If that doesn't do it, go to a higher up, assuming this is ok with your daughter too.

[tinuviel42]

*sigh* My daughters aren't in school yet, so I don't know exactly what they'll have to be up against, but I can tell you right now that if my children are ever singled out for their beliefs, or worse, for my and my husband's beliefs, I'm going to be contacting the Witches' Anti-Defamation League.
I had to go through stuff like that in college a couple of times. COLLEGE for crying out loud! Professors making assumptions that everybody must be x-ian, or asking people their religion. At the time, I didn't really care enough to make an issue of it. If they want to be ignorant, that's their problem, you know? But these are kids! I agree that it sounds like a conversion tactic. And if these are small towns, like you said, I also agree that it's a mini-inquisition. Are they going to find out who in town isn't x-ian and then start gathering kindling? Ridiculous. :geez:

[SnowyMoon]

Raise hell. And if anyone asks you what your religion is, or the religion of your daughter, tell them it's none of their goddamn business.
My thoughts exactly. Thank you.

[SnowyMoon]

Good news everyone! :floating: The meeting with the teacher went very well.

When I brought up the issue, she looked down, her face turned red, and she looked truely embarrassed. I explained my feelings and point of view, and I brought up the inquisition likeness of it. She felt bad about it. She said it started with a child stating they were Catholic and was not sure if it was Christian and what is this and what is that, and it led to this. She was trying to help the child that originally asked the question to understand, and it led up to the whole class being involved. She said she explained to the children that there are some common things in different paths as well. She was very applogetic and stated over and over that it was not her intent to put any child on the spot. I explained to her that my daughter is very educated when it comes to World Religion and Culture. I explained to she is exposed to many different paths including Paganism, Islam and Christianity, and that I am raising her as "student," and that it will be a choice she will make on her own when she is ready. I explained how I feel it is my job to educate her about as many paths as I can. The teacher liked that.

I then explained to her that my daughter is also aware of the inquisition and how some people can treat others when they don't understand them. The teacher again was very appologetic and explained that she is trying to do her best to present the material in a very fair way, and she was trying to address the question prompted by a student that kind of snow-balled into the whole class discussing it.

Overall, I truely did feel she was sorry. I think the conversation went well, and I feel that she did feel bad about the way she handled it and will conduct herself differently in the future. I really feel that she was fair with me, and I feel pretty confident it will not happen again. She was very open, and I did not feel discomfort from her. She was very understanding and again very appologetic. I think she will nip this convo in the bud next time a child starts it.

I expressed to her that had I been in her shoes, I would have explained that it is a personal choice and that they should discuss it with their parents. She agreed. ;). Whew!

[~*Ginger*~]

Well, good.
Glad to hear it went well...

[door]

Teachers DO makes mistakes, but some are unacceptable. Discussion of religion or politics in classrooms must be a finely tuned lesson plan and not a question and answer situation that your daughter was in. Even if the teacher was headed somewhere with that discussion the method was off.

As a teacher I would hope a parent would come to me about the problem first. As a teacher tired of people going into this profession because it is "easy and you get summers off" I would say you have to go to the principal and the board. Teachers left unchecked don't just get away with something, they cause damage in the chidren exposed to them.