Sumerian

[MistOfTheSea86]

I was wondering if this was the right place to put this. I was thinking of reading up on the Sumarian culture, could any of you help me start?

[Socharis]

you ever seen Conan? LOL :D

[MistOfTheSea86]

With *In his accent* Arnold Swartchaneger?

[Socharis]

Or the cartoon as well, they (Conans ppl) are Sumarian

[Socharis]

Originally posted by MistOfTheSea86
With *In his accent* Arnold Swartchaneger?

dont you mean Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[MistOfTheSea86]

I cant spell!!:(

[Myst]

Conan's Sumerian? I seem to remember him having the attitude that the Gods might grant help, and if not "to hell with [them]" (kind of funny to hear Conan referring to hell, no?). He also seemed to have the attitude of being a warrior and understanding death is a friend and you should not be afraid to meet him.

Very warrior-oriented.

When I think of Sumerian myth I think of Inanna too. :)

[Socharis]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
Conan's Sumerian? I seem to remember him having the attitude that the Gods might grant help, and if not "to hell with [them]" (kind of funny to hear Conan referring to hell, no?). He also seemed to have the attitude of being a warrior and understanding death is a friend and you should not be afraid to meet him.

Very warrior-oriented.

When I think of Sumerian myth I think of Inanna too. :)

Yeah hes definitely Sumarian, Rathamon always calls him the dumb Sumarian Barbarian.

But hey its fictional. LOL

[MistOfTheSea86]

All i know is that the Sumarian Culture is alot like Atlantis... One day they were there worshipping then Poof they're gone. That is it...:D

[Silver Venus]

Have you been reading the Celestine Prochecy? by Peter Redfield (I think..) at the end it talks about a similar if not the Sumarians that just vanished!
They actually got attuned to a higher energy level and once in tune became invisible to the common eye :)

[Myst]

oh I hate when I become invisible to the common eye.

but no seriously... :)

I've seen that book but never read it - seems to be too fluffy for me - then again like I said I haven't read it so I don't know.

I remember grade 8 english class where we made up our own spelling tests and Schwarzenegger was on at least one of them :p

The SO is really into Conan. Then again he's into the barbarian thing - especially today, being as he didn't get home till 2 am and has been working all weekend due to some twits at work. I bet he'd like to run around in furry underwear with a club for awhile too.

[Silver Venus]

Yeah Willow I would say it is a bit fluffy ~ but just a bit! Its a really good book with lots of teachings about energy and evolution in it! It really opened my eyes up to a whole load of new theories and thinking.. Maybe you should give it a chance and have a read :D



furry underwear with a club for awhile too


Would'nt we all ;)

[mysticwicks]

Moderator Mode

Please keep all posts on topic. The initial topic of this thread is "Sumerian."

Personal opinions vary, this is to be expected. However, all personal opinions should be topic related.

If you have been offended in any way, please notify the moderators of this forum before posting personal grievances which are off-topic.

Thanks for your support and understanding,

Mysticwicks Staff

[Socharis]

Originally posted by mysticwicks
Moderator Mode

Please keep all posts on topic. The initial topic of this thread is "Sumerian."

Personal opinions vary, this is to be expected. However, all personal opinions should be topic related.

If you have been offended in any way, please notify the moderators of this forum before posting personal grievances which are off-topic.

Thanks for your support and understanding,

Mysticwicks Staff





HUH?

[MistOfTheSea86]

Word to that Socharis!

[Silver Venus]

Im a little confused too ~ What has happened that may of offended someone?
I think Willow meant that the Celestine Prophecy was a bit too airy fairy for her she didnt mean fluffy in a rude sense! & I was only joking about the fur and club ;)

Oh well on with the Sumarian culture ~ have you found anything of interest Mist?

[Lilu]

Originally posted by Silver Venus
Have you been reading the Celestine Prochecy? by Peter Redfield (I think..) at the end it talks about a similar if not the Sumarians that just vanished!
They actually got attuned to a higher energy level and once in tune became invisible to the common eye :)

Actually I think it was the Mayans that Redfield was referring to, but he may have mentioned more than one culture. The Sumerians and Mayans are somewhat similar in that they appeared to rise up out of nowhere, and then just disappeared too. Of course the Celestine Prophecy is also a fictional book, it has some good ideas but they're not exactly *new* so to speak :)

MistoftheSea - Here's some links you might want to check out on the Sumerian culture (the REAL one, not the fictionalise Conan stuff)

Sumerian FAQ: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/sumer-faq.html
Sumerian Religion: http://www.mindspring.com/~mysticgryphon/religndx.htm
Sumerian Gods: http://www.usfca.edu/westciv/Sumerian.html
More Gods: http://sesic.sep.gob.mx/basemin/biblioteca/enciclop/D8.HTM

Lilu

[Mairwen]

I don't know which Moderator put the moderator post up.

HOWEVER

The Celestine Prophecy has NOTHING to do with this Thread. Please pull the Thread back on TOPIC, or I will close it down. Thsis is the second warning you've had.

[Silver Venus]

Hi Mairwen
~ I had no idea it was a topic that couldnt be talked about here ~ I only said it in refernce to what I thought of the dissappearance of the Sumarians and the energies ~ again I am sorry...

Thanks for the links Lilu Ill take a look at those later on :)

[Mairwen]

Well, it's not htat you can't discuss the books, but apparently whomever posted the first moderation felt that the subject was going way off topic. Get it back on please.

[Amethyst Rose]

The original moderation was in response to all the talk about Arnold and Conan. Talk about actors and movies just didn't seem appropriet for the topic or the forum. The conversation was starting to go back on topic with the talk of the Celestine Prophesy, but still wasn't quite right... it was heading in the direction of talking about the book (fluffy or not), not about Sumeria in the book.

I would like to see this conversation continue, as it is a very interesting topic and I myself know a lot about Sumerian dieties/religion and culture.

Therefore, if anyone would like to talk about the moderation, please pm me instead of posting in the topic.

[BrightStar]

Hi all!
I studied ancient Sumer and Sumerian culture in college.I had posted a thread or two from that class here,but it seems to be gone.Oh well,it took a long time to type it.It was The Descent of the Goddess Inanna/Ishtar and the Exhaltation of Inanna,both by Enheduanna.
Try a search for the name Enheduanna,she was daughter of the King Sargon and High Priestess of the Moon God Sin and the Goddess Inanna.She's the oldest author known by name in human history,she actually signed her work.
As far as I know,Sumer and it's people didn't just disappear.They were conquered by other peoples who saved much of the literature.People went on writing in their language for hundreds of years later,much as we use Latin.
A good book of ancient Sumerian and Egyptian chants to deities is Ancient Near Eastern Texts,I'm not sure of the author.
Peace and Love
BrightStar

[Draeconin]

Don't know anything about them myself, but found a couple of websites you might find of interest:

http://www.eliki.com/ancient/
http://www.crystalinks.com/sumerculture.html
http://gallery.sjsu.edu/sacrifice/sumerians.html

And if you do a search for "ancient sumerian culture", there are quite a few more.

My favorite search engines are Hotbot at http://hotbot.lycos.com/, LookSmart at http://www.looksmart.com/ and MetaCrawler at http://www.metacrawler.com/ (although MetaCrawler doesn't seem to be as good as it used to be). :/

Good hunting! :)

[Socharis]

I think Conan teaches us a lot about the Deities in sumarian societ, as Conan mentions quite a few.

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by Socharis
I think Conan teaches us a lot about the Deities in sumarian societ, as Conan mentions quite a few.

It's possible, but not knowing what kind of research the author did, I'm more apt to assume that, as a science fiction/fantasy author, he took a lot of artistic license in his portrayals.

[Myst]

You can find the pantheon of the Conan world on this site (which is about the RPG based on the movie/books) at http://affiliates.thethreshold.com/conan/Pantheon/Pantheon.htm

It includes the Greek Adonis, the Egyptian Set, the Sumerian and Babylonian Ishtar, the Vedic Mitra, the Siberian Erlik, the Babylonian Bel, Hanuman, Crom (Cruach), the Asian Asura, the Norse Ymir, Yama (of Hindu, Vedic, Brahmanistic and Buddhist myth), the Phoenician Ashtoreth, as well as various other deities (probably some made up, but not necessarily all).

This from a few searches of Encyclopedia Mythica. As you can see Conan IS in fact related to Sumerian myth as well as many others.

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
You can find the pantheon of the Conan world on this site (which is about the RPG based on the movie/books) at http://affiliates.thethreshold.com/conan/Pantheon/Pantheon.htm

It includes the Greek Adonis, the Egyptian Set, the Sumerian and Babylonian Ishtar, the Vedic Mitra, the Siberian Erlik, the Babylonian Bel, Hanuman, Crom (Cruach), the Asian Asura, the Norse Ymir, Yama (of Hindu, Vedic, Brahmanistic and Buddhist myth), the Phoenician Ashtoreth, as well as various other deities (probably some made up, but not necessarily all).

This from a few searches of Encyclopedia Mythica. As you can see Conan IS in fact related to Sumerian myth as well as many others.

I didn't say the gods didn't exist, just that he probably took a lot of liberties with his descriptions of them. (After comparing the descriptions from the Conan site with the descriptions from Encyclopedia Mythica, I can say for certain that he *did* take a lot of liberties with their descriptions.) Bel, for example, isn't a god of thieves. He is a sky god. Adonis wasn't a god at all, although he was saved by Aphrodite and raised by Persephone.

There is nothing wrong with what he did for the sake of story-telling, but it's just a story. *shrug*

And, trying to keep the thread on-topic... Here are a few more sites for the Sumerian gods/mythology:

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/sumer-faq.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/untangle/mideastg.html - all sorts of Middle-Eastern gods, including Sumerian.
http://www.pibburns.com/mythregi.htm - folklore and mythology from all over the world
http://www.clubi.ie/lestat/menu_egypt.html - Egypt, Babylon, Sumeria
http://168.255.115.5/basemin/biblioteca/enciclop/D8.HTM

[Myst]

Bel is also known as Baal and Beelzebub, who is in myth a fallen angel and servant of Satan. Further, "Priests instructed the people that Baal was responsible for droughts, plagues, and other calamities". Thus where the "God of thieves" stuff probably came from.

Besides people tend to make Gods of whomever they like :)
Anyways someone mentioned earlier on that Conan was OT of Sumerian and I was just pointing out that it's not - yes it is a story and no one's saying there's something wrong with that. Thanks for sharing the links btw, they are very informative.

[bananabrain]

it's 'cimmerian'. not the same thing as 'sumerian' at all. if you want the (fictional) background, part 1 of robert e. howard's essay 'the hyborian age' is in most editions of the first collection of short stories, usually called just 'conan' and part 2 is in the novella 'conan the avenger'. as for the mythological names howard uses, bear in mind that he's writing fiction set in an essentially prehistoric epoch, before the geography looked like it does these days. therefore, it ain't gonna match up with what you read elsewhere, although it might cross over occasionally with mentions of the gods 'mitra', 'ishtar', 'varuna', 'asura', 'ahriman', 'morrigan', 'set' and so on. howard was a storyteller, not a student of comparative religion.

b'shalom

bb

[Mairwen]

Thanks Bananabrain!! You're a life saver!! :D

[Draeconin]

Originally posted by WillowRaven
Bel is also known as Baal and Beelzebub, who is in myth a fallen angel and servant of Satan. Further, "Priests instructed the people that Baal was responsible for droughts, plagues, and other calamities". Thus where the "God of thieves" stuff probably came from.

Besides people tend to make Gods of whomever they like :)

And devils, it seems. :)

Baal was a god long before Christianity arose, so it would be more proper to say "Christian myth"... Just looked up Beelzebub in Encyclopedia Mythica. I think you'll all find this very interesting. I did. :)

Beelzebub is the patron god of the Philistines in ancient Palestine. He is also identified with the god of Ekron, Baal-Zebub. The term is a deliberate mocking perversion of the Canaanite Baal-Zebul ("Prince Baal"), one of the standard titles of the god Baal. In the Bible, Beelzebub is the prince of evil spirits and in Milton's 'Paradise Lost' he is Satan's chief lieutenant. He is also called 'Lord of the Flies', derived from the Hebrew "Baal-Zevuv".

[Myst]

And I'm aware it's Cimmerian but as you can see Ishtar is mentioned and she is Sumerian. As Pagans we certainly understand the effectiveness of mixing deities and myths for our purposes, don't we :)

Inanna was the ancient Sumerian name for Ishtar, who I've worked with a few times. There's even a song about her by my favourite band. "She is described as an evil, heartless, woman who destroyed her mates and lovers" (Encyclopedia Mythica), which makes her great for spells to get rid of sexual harassment and others who might otherwise compromise women. She also reminds me of Lilith. The concept of Eden in the bible is reminiscent of the Sumerian Dilmun. Except you had Enki and Ninhursag instead of Eve and Adam.

Myths mix themselves anyway. They don't disappear even when people are conquered, but often become part of the newer religions in myth etc. When the Romans conquered the Greeks for example they took over their myths, just giving new names. When Christianity came into wider acceptance it took some of the Pagan Gods and made them into Saints or Demons. Adonis is even mentioned in the bible by another name (Tammuz)!

[mark krauss]

I've seen a lot of Sumerian material on the MSN netsearch.

[flar7]

Gilgamesh, would be a good search as he is (I believe) a Summerian. He sought immortality and when he found it, he lost it.
Cimmerian(fiction) are mountain peoples and culture
the Summerians were flatlanders and fought from chariots.

Gilgamesh was greatly feared because it was believed that he was god touched. He fought equally well with either hand, a scary sight to his enemies. fyi

[Krom]

Originally posted by Willow Raven


It includes the Greek Adonis, the Egyptian Set, the Sumerian and Babylonian Ishtar, the Vedic Mitra, the Siberian Erlik, the Babylonian Bel, Hanuman, Crom (Cruach),

I am not understanding. Crom is not a Babylonian God. Crom is an early Irish God. Am I just confused again???;)

MP B*B
Krom

[flar7]

Dont confuse Conan with actual historical myths, religions.
The Conan Crom is fictional. They be a difference between fiction and Myth. Take a mythology course sometime, is very cool.

[Krom]

Originally posted by flar7
Dont confuse Conan with actual historical myths, religions.
The Conan Crom is fictional. They be a difference between fiction and Myth. Take a mythology course sometime, is very cool.

That was what I thought. I know several of the Sumerian Gods and have never ever heard of that one. :) My name is derived from Cromm Cruaich. It is pronounced phonetically Chrome.

Anyway back on topic. In Sumerian mythology a few of my favorite Gods/Goddess are Innana, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal (which is the Assyro-Babylonian name of the Underworld Goddess)

MP B*B
Krom

[Myst]

Originally posted by Krom


I am not understanding. Crom is not a Babylonian God. Crom is an early Irish God. Am I just confused again???;)

MP B*B
Krom

Ok read the whole sentence. I didn't say any of them were Babylonian except for Ishtar and Bel. That sentence pointed out several deities from several belief systems that have been mentioned in the Conan series or could be related to deities in that series. I didn't mean to suggest the Crom mentioned in Conan was THE Crom, thus the (Cruach) signifying I wasn't sure whether that Crom had anything to do with Crom Cruach or Cromm Cruaich as you put it. ~ http://www.pantheon.org/articles/c/crom_cruach.html

My point, again, is that Conan's myth is in part derived from various other beliefs and myths, and that Sumerian and other myths are shared in Conan. Meaning Conan is not totally made up and is a valid series related to Sumerian (as well as other) myth. No one said it was all true, especially not me. But saying it has no relation is like saying that I work with Hecate isn't valid because I don't work with every Greek deity exactly as they are all the time.

[Krom]

Originally posted by Willow Raven


Ok read the whole sentence. I didn't say any of them were Babylonian except for Ishtar and Bel. That sentence pointed out several deities from several belief systems that have been mentioned in the Conan series or could be related to deities in that series.

I did read it WillowRaven. Maybe you need to re-read it as well. Then you might see where I was confused. You set them off (as in a series) with comas after you said the Babylonian Bel. I was just clearifying your statement. I did not want to assume. As for a reference to Crom or a God like him in Sumerian mythology; I have not seen a corresponding God to match. I am not saying that there is not either.



It includes the Greek Adonis, the Egyptian Set, the Sumerian and Babylonian Ishtar, the Vedic Mitra, the Siberian Erlik, the Babylonian Bel, Hanuman, Crom (Cruach),

MP B*B
Krom

[Mairwen]

Okay. One more mention of Conan, and this thread is shut down. And that's final.