School problems.

[Selket]

Hi all. My mom asked me to post this about my little brother, as she's at the end of her rope.

My brother's in the eighth grade, and he's failing all his classes. Yeah, *all* of them. It's not that he isnt' intelligent, he just isn't motivated to do his homework. No matter what she tries, Mom can't get him to do his homework. He locks himself in his bedroom and won't come out until she gives up. He doesn't seem to be interested in anything other than playing computer games, so she doesn't know what to motivate him with. We've brainstormed, but can't think of anything. So any help you can give would be much appreciated!

[Sylvan]

Sounds like a grounding from the computer until his grades improve is in order. If he needs it for research for school, the computer should be out in a family area (living room, maybe?) and supervised to make sure he isn't sneaking into any games or just surfing the net idly.

If he's locking himself in his room and still not getting any work done... The recent movie "Freaky Friday" comes to mind. Take his bedroom door off its hinges. He can change his clothes in the bathroom for privacy.

Maybe these things sound harsh. I don't know, I'm not a parent. Just ideas, anyways. Take 'em or leave 'em....

[blueiris]

*nods head* i agree with kurgarra. one of my friends failed a class in eighth grade, and let me tell you, you have to work at that. Perhaps take off the door, ground him from the computer, tv, etc, and try to get a weekly update from his teachers because he may tell you that he did his homework, but just be lying to get off the hook. Be harsh with him. He's putting his future at stake for failing those classes, he could be held back, etc. If you think that's too mean, and if he is an intelligent boy just like you say, tell him how negatively it will affect his future. Tell him he'll be a homeless bum who won't be able to buy video games if he doesn't pass!! (okay i was just kidding about that).
Good luck with him!!!

[Mindflayer]

Sounds like a grounding from the computer until his grades improve is in order.

that's the LAST thing you want to do, sure he -might- get the work done, but nothing will change, he is going through EXACTLY what I did, I never did homework, barely did classwork, and all I did was come home and play Video Games...


Why? because I don't see the point, so unless you can give him a good reason to be doing homework (which, lets face it, is just busy-work that has NO bearing on how much he knows, or anything important)

Homework and grades, mean nothing, a little letter doesn't show how much you know, actions do...


I'm being completely serious here, punishing him for failing will NOT help... my dad tried to take my computer once, he returned it the next day after I "showed" him how much about computers I really know, by demostrating on his ;)


taking things away will change nothing, what he needs is a different form of education, sitting in a classroom, listening to some teacher ramble on for 30 minutes, then assigning busy-work is NOT a valid form of learning for everyone, sure -some- people it works for, but not all...


It's not that he doesn't care, it's not that he's trying to "rebel", it's that he doesn't see the point, and that the type of learning that he is getting is NOT working for him, if he's anything like me (which I suspect he is) he needs a more hands-on type thing...

ever think about sending him to a vocational or tech school?

that's what I did, and it worked, though I dropped out of highschool, got my diploma through the GED test, and then went to a technical college, for him I would obviously suggest looking more at vocational highschools

he NEEDS to be doing something he LIKES, and sees a point to doing, he likes video games? send him to a school to learn game design, programming, or maybe computer animation?

ask him what he likes, and HELP him achieve something, punishing him might get the work done, but it will not help him...


EDIT:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, do not take away the one thing that is most likely keeping him from going insane, the one thing that helps him escape from the mundane, help him learn and feel like he's accomplishing by using his medium to your advantage

[BethieRose]

I definitely see Mindflayer's point and I think that's good advice. I saw homework and most classwork as busywork and pointless most of the time. The main reason I kept at it was because of something my parents told me....When you're in school, you have to play by the teachers' rules. If they ask you to do something, regardless of whether it seems pointless, you do it to keep the grades up. Because those grades can seriously affect your future.

He sounds intelligent. I think approaching him to discuss his future is a good thing and should be done in light of the situation. Find out if he wants to go to college, or if vocational school is more where he'd like to go. That will give him a goal to work towards...if he wants college without first doing vocational studies, he'll have to work for it, no matter how mindless it all seems. Either way that GED is worth its weight in gold. In 8th grade, he may not see it, but he needs to be made aware of the choices he'll face in the future and how his actions now affect what choices he'll have available later.

[lovemy1dane]

I see Mindflayer's point also, but My daoughter had this same problem for a few years. She was pushed through 3rd -5th grade and was told by everyone that the school WILL NOT push through 6th. Well, this is 6th grade and she really is trying on her own. We took her door off and took away everything else she had to do except schoolwork. Once her homework was done (and chores) she could have something back for that night.(her choice) If she got above a 75 on all her tests that week, she got whatever she wanted back for the weekend. We started that at the end of 5th and she is on honor roll this year so far.She now has her tv, dvd,vcr gamecube etc... back as long as her mid terms and report cards are above 75 on all her classes. If she goes below that she will lose those things until the following mid term(1 mo.) One might say she will only care about getting a 75 and not acheiving any more, but right before x-mas vac. she got an 85 on her science test and she was livid that she did not do better and is asking for a retest.( I am VERY happy with that grade !) I wish you lots of luck, it is very hard to watch someone you love do something to hurt themselves, even if they don't know it at the time. Also have you thought about depression at all?? He could be depressed.

[Selket]

Thanks for your advice, everyone! We'll try anything we can. I'll show my mom your thoughts and we'll see what works. Thanks again and again and again!

[Ben Trismegistus]

that's the LAST thing you want to do, sure he -might- get the work done, but nothing will change, he is going through EXACTLY what I did, I never did homework, barely did classwork, and all I did was come home and play Video Games...
I disagree. Selket's brother needs to learn that people have responsibilities in life. And whether you like them or not, you have to fulfill your responsibilities before you can do something fun. His grades are more important than his computer games.

Homework and grades, mean nothing, a little letter doesn't show how much you know, actions do...
That may be true, but if he wants to go to college someday, or get a good job, he'll have to work for those "little letters". That's just the way it is.

he NEEDS to be doing something he LIKES, and sees a point to doing, he likes video games? send him to a school to learn game design, programming, or maybe computer animation?
If all the kids who liked video games did that, the world would be overrun with out-of-work video game programmers.

[Calyx]

I disagree. Selket's brother needs to learn that people have responsibilities in life. And whether you like them or not, you have to fulfill your responsibilities before you can do something fun. His grades are more important than his computer games.

That may be true, but if he wants to go to college someday, or get a good job, he'll have to work for those "little letters". That's just the way it is.


If all the kids who liked video games did that, the world would be overrun with out-of-work video game programmers.

Go Ben! I think you are right on the money. Rebelling is something everyone does, but just because you don't like something doesn't mean you don't have to do it. I'm sorry, but that's not the way of the world and you will be unpleasantly surprised at some point in your life if that's the way you are going to proceed. I don't mean to sound harsh, but hon, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee! The world is not going to revolve around you and your likes and dislikes. I think it only does that for movie stars and billionaires :hehehehe: So, if you fall into one of these categories, great. If not, you'll have to conform at some point........ :)

[Thistle]

So true, Ben and Calyx.

The point of doing homework, whether it's mindless busywork or not, is passing the class so you can move on to the next grade level.

[teyl]

Is there a reason that he behaves like this? Tell your friend to read the book titled The Journey for Kids: Liberating your child's shining potential it by Brandon Bays. If her son is open to it, it may help wonders.

[DarkSidhe]

I was an underachiever. Had the term even been around wayyy back then, I would probably been labled with ADD as well. I agree both ways. In High School my senior year, in Trig/Pre-Calc, I Failed the first and second quarters, then aced the semester final (99%), which was just enough to get me to pass. Third quarter F, fourth D-, again, aced final test (97%). My teacher was pulling me aside constantly telling me that I could be an A or B student if I only did the homework. I would always reply "Why? You know that I know the stuph."

But that's High School, not grade school. If he's anything like I was, I would wonder if he's being sufficiently challenged by the coursework. Perhaps he's doing so bad not because it's just busy work, but because it's incredibly easy busywork. Depression could be a problem, as could Attention Deficit Disorder. How's his eyesight?

But, yes, I also agree that regardless of it being busywork, or even incredibly easy busywork, it is something that he will have to do, unless he really wants to spend his life in grade school, or go on to the 8-year high school plan.

[Antoninus]

I agree 200% with Mindflayer, Im exactly the same way, I dont see busy homework type work as important, ittl bore you more than ittl help.

Sounds like a grounding from the computer until his grades improve is in order. If he needs it for research for school, the computer should be out in a family area (living room, maybe?) and supervised to make sure he isn't sneaking into any games or just surfing the net idly.

If he's locking himself in his room and still not getting any work done... The recent movie "Freaky Friday" comes to mind. Take his bedroom door off its hinges. He can change his clothes in the bathroom for privacy.
Under NO circumstances take his door off, that will make him mad and less willing to work with you if you come up with an idea, Kids need privacy. Grounding him from the computer is also a bad idea, agian, it will make him angry and frustrated and less willing to work with you or his teachers. Computer games are actually more beneficial than most people think, they work out your hand eye coordination, critical thinking skills and the like, granted they dont do much for your body but they do relieve stress. I know that when I get grounded from the comp, I start getting more agitated and irritable from sheer boredom and frustration than anything else. Kids are like puppies in that they tend to get destructive when bored. You DONT want to take his door off, respect his rights to privacy, if you need to, knock on his door occasionally to check and see what hes doing. But I beg you dont take away the computer, its going to cause more trouble than its worth.

[Semele]

I Kids are like puppies in that they tend to get destructive when bored.

When a puppy is destructive we train it not to be that way. We cannot entertain our pets 24 hours a day so we teach them to pacify themselves and to wait patiently until we have time to play with them/feed them/walk them etc. It is the same way with children. They can't expect to be entertained every waking moment of the day. Games are fun and yes they do have many benefits, I will agree. However there is a time for fun and there is a time for work. Also if the games and computer are fun they can be used very successfully as a reward. think of it like this, if you do well and follow the rules you get the privilage of playing games, sounds better then saying if your bad I take it away.

It works with Trey. Gameboy, XBox, and computer games are his life man! He gets his chores done and runs to the game of choice, however if he has a bad day at school he doesn't play games that day plain and simple.

As for taking the door down, whatever works. my only thought is that as a parent you never "give up" or "give in" when disciplining a child. You have to command respect if you ever want to be respected. If we can't make our children respect us then how can we act suprised when they show a total disrepect for authority in general?

To allow our children to disrespect us does them a huge disservice in life. They will have to do things in life that they find boring and they will have to take orders from people they may not like, but if they continuosly disrespect those in charge of them they will end up in a very tightly controlled atmosphere where that respect is enforced. "Yes sir Wardon!"

[Antoninus]

Entertaining yourself isnt a privalege in my eyes, if you need a computer and a video game to do that, then who cares? For some people, myself included, games are the ONLY form of entertainment around short of shooting beer cans off road signs. Boredom is something I dread more than anything because when I get bored I usually get depressed so I play games to AVOID that. If you want to take away a kid's games, you should first find out WHY he plays them. Is it to relieve stress? Is it to keep from being bored? Or is it simply for entertainment? If he has other things to do (I do not mean chores and reading) then the games wont be of such paramount importance, but when he has litterally NOTHING else to do, your taking away his only outlet for frustration and the like.

I HATE when my parents say "Youve spent all day on the computer, cant you find something else to do?" Then when I ask what, the answers are always "Chores, read, go out". The chores are done, ive READ everything I can get my hands on and go out where? Ither that or they say "I dunno, find something".

A parent EARNS respect in my eyes. If a person is a good parent, then they deserve respect, if theyre bad parents, then Id say that respect is not forthcomming. I personally have zero respect for my parents because they do not understand that its easier and better overall to work WITH a kid than to say "DO THIS!!" Granted there are times when you do have to put your foot down and give orders, but that should be your lollipop (Emergency parachute incase your main chute fails). You shouldnt put your foot down unless you have a good reason, otherwise your child looses respect for you, I speak from experience here. My parents do this all the time "DO THAT!" "Why" "Because I said so!" To me that translates to "Do it because I want you to and for no other reason" or "I cant find a good reason right now so Ill just use the Parental Lollipop".

[Semele]

Boredom is something I dread more than anything because when I get bored I usually get depressed so I play games to AVOID that. If you want to take away a kid's games, you should first find out WHY he plays them. Is it to relieve stress? Is it to keep from being bored? Or is it simply for entertainment? If he has other things to do (I do not mean chores and reading) then the games wont be of such paramount importance, but when he has litterally NOTHING else to do, your taking away his only outlet for frustration and the like.

I am not saying to take them away just because he should/could be doing other things. In this case this kid isn't fullfilling his obligations as a child. He has to go to school and get the grades and probaly little else if he is like most kids his age. If he can't accomplish these things then no way should he be playing video games. I don't much care if a kid plays games and nothing else with his free time. I mean my son literally hates to do anything other than play games. When he isn't allowed to play for the day he acts out the games he enjoys and that's fine by me. I am glad he has an oputlet that he enjoys, but it will not replace his duties and I say what better way to use it to his advantage then as a learning tool for behavior modification. Then it becomes a dual capacity game.




A parent EARNS respect in my eyes. If a person is a good parent, then they deserve respect, if theyre bad parents, then Id say that respect is not forthcomming.

That's funny because I see a parent who doesn't make their child respect them as a bad parent. I don't mean in the old fashioned yes sir no sir way of blind respect, but at least have the decency to listen to your parents and obey them as much as possible. I don't think a parent should have to use force or threats to get the respect from their children. If they start when the kids are little by not allowing them to disrespect them then it is usually a natural progression into adolescence. There are times throughout the development of a child that they will test limits and it is then that the parents have to be assertive and set the ground rules again. If there is a mutual respect between parents and children then life is much easier and happier for everyone.

Granted there are times when you do have to put your foot down and give orders, but that should be your lollipop (Emergency parachute incase your main chute fails). You shouldnt put your foot down unless you have a good reason, otherwise your child looses respect for you,

Well, i agree you shouldn't HAVE to put your foot down, because if your child respects you they will hear your request the first time and it woint be a struggle of power. Of course i think we should give the children choices and options whenever possible, but I just happen to think that there are a lot of good reasons to put your foot down. For instance if your child is running toward a busy intersection are you going to ask them if they would stop please when they get around to it? Or would you say stop and hope they listen or even count to three giving them that many chances to be obedient? How many seconds does it take for a car to hit your child while the two of you are in a power struggle because the child has been allowed to argue in the past? No, you should say stop and the child should immediately stop and then listen to you as you explain the reason..afterward.

If a child obeys all the time then the number of times a parent has to put the foot down is small.

[Ben Trismegistus]

A parent EARNS respect in my eyes. If a person is a good parent, then they deserve respect, if theyre bad parents, then Id say that respect is not forthcomming.
And your definition of a parent who deserves respect is one who allows you to play video games whenever you want and not require you to do your homework or chores?

[Antoninus]

And your definition of a parent who deserves respect is one who allows you to play video games whenever you want and not require you to do your homework or chores? My definition of a parent who deserves respect is not one that sits on his couch drinking and talking to himself

but at least have the decency to listen to your parents and obey them as much as possible. I don't think a parent should have to use force or threats to get the respect from their children
I rarely listen to what they say because half the time its so assasnine that it isnt even worth listening to. My parents know that Im a guy, that I have a girlfriend, and that I like computer games, beyond that they dont know ANYTHING about me yet they talk and act as if they knew everything. They get mad when I disagree with them, they INTENTIONALLY provoke arguments, in my eyes, these people are not worthy of respect.

Well, i agree you shouldn't HAVE to put your foot down, because if your child respects you they will hear your request the first time and it woint be a struggle of power. Of course i think we should give the children choices and options whenever possible, but I just happen to think that there are a lot of good reasons to put your foot down. For instance if your child is running toward a busy intersection are you going to ask them if they would stop please when they get around to it? Or would you say stop and hope they listen or even count to three giving them that many chances to be obedient? How many seconds does it take for a car to hit your child while the two of you are in a power struggle because the child has been allowed to argue in the past? No, you should say stop and the child should immediately stop and then listen to you as you explain the reason..afterward. As I said, there are definate times when you take control, but parents tend to abuse that power more often than they think. "because I said so" is a classic parental Lollipop that equates to putting your foot down in my opinion, there are some times when you HAVE to say "because I said so" because the REAL reason is something your child isnt ready for yet, IE: "Mommy? Why cant I play doctor with Sarah when she takes off her clothes?" SOME parents start to abuse that power and it gets out of control where the parent goes on a power trip because theyre in a bad mood or they feel like it.

[WitchJezebel]

Sounds like a grounding from the computer until his grades improve is in order. If he needs it for research for school, the computer should be out in a family area (living room, maybe?) and supervised to make sure he isn't sneaking into any games or just surfing the net idly.

If he's locking himself in his room and still not getting any work done... The recent movie "Freaky Friday" comes to mind. Take his bedroom door off its hinges. He can change his clothes in the bathroom for privacy.

Maybe these things sound harsh. I don't know, I'm not a parent. Just ideas, anyways. Take 'em or leave 'em....


I'm definitely with you on the grounding. Things are so different from when I was a teen (I'm 36). It's like the parents don't want to be perceived as the "bad guys". I didn't do too well in high school either and I remember having floor seats to a Judas Priest concert at Madison Square Garden. My mother told me that if I didn't pass ALL of the tests prior to the concert that I'd have to give up my ticket. I passed - I went, simple as that. I'm not saying that kids don't deserve respect and rewards for a job well done, but that respect has to be earned and the rewards come after you've done the work. Believe me, I didn't want to go to school or do homework either, I would have been content hanging out with my dropout friends and listening to heavy metal, but I had boundaries and limits. It's up to the parents to set them and enforce them. Kids may not like it now, but they'll respect you for it later when they become responsible adults.

I don't know about taking the door off the hinges, I'd reserve that one for extreme measures only.

*Edited for typos*

[Ben Trismegistus]

My definition of a parent who deserves respect is not one that sits on his couch drinking and talking to himself
What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about whether it's inappropriate for a parent to take away a child's computer or bedroom door.

[Antoninus]

You asked, I answered

[DarkSidhe]

My definition of a parent who deserves respect is not one that sits on his couch drinking and talking to himself.
I rarely listen to what they say because half the time its so assasnine that it isnt even worth listening to. My parents know that Im a guy, that I have a girlfriend, and that I like computer games, beyond that they dont know ANYTHING about me yet they talk and act as if they knew everything. They get mad when I disagree with them, they INTENTIONALLY provoke arguments, in my eyes, these people are not worthy of respect.


First, I'm sorry your parents are like that. But from what Selket stated in the first post, the one with the question, I don't see her(?) parents as being like that. Not every parent is like that. My father was an alcoholic who left us when I was four, but my mother was always there for me, involved in my life, and genuinly interested in what I did, and still is.

Second, we're talking about an eighth grader, not a high-schooler. At that age, whether they like it or not, children do not have any individual rights given to them by the government, other than the normal rights given to all living humans. Everything at that age must be designated by a parent or guardian.

Third, the problem is not just trying to be fixed by his mother, but by his sister(?) as well. If his parents were like yours (and again, I'm sorry) would his sister(?) be trying to help? They seem genuinely interested in his behavior, and are trying everything that they can think of, including posting here, to help.

Yes, some parents can be idiots, hey, 85% of the population are idiots in my book. But there are also worse; child abusers, child molesters, child murderers, etc. But the point here is that we are not attempting to judge parents, or bitch about them, but are attempting to help a girl(? I can never tell by all these names) and her(?) little brother.

[Mindflayer]

That may be true, but if he wants to go to college someday, or get a good job, he'll have to work for those "little letters". That's just the way it is.
No it's not, I never finished highschool, I'm in college and will have a VERY good job when I graduate..


If all the kids who liked video games did that, the world would be overrun with out-of-work video game programmers.There's a difference between liking something, and having it be your ONLY outlet, what would you say if he did nothing but paint, instead of playing video games? You'd say he should look into attending an art school...

It's the same thing, the kid has ONE outlet in life, and he should not have it taken away, he should have it usedto his advantage to help him be successful...




Rebelling is something everyone does, but just because you don't like something doesn't mean you don't have to do it. I'm sorry, but that's not the way of the world and you will be unpleasantly surprised at some point in your life if that's the way you are going to proceed. I don't mean to sound harsh, but hon, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee! The world is not going to revolve around you and your likes and dislikes. I think it only does that for movie stars and billionaires :hehehehe: So, if you fall into one of these categories, great. If not, you'll have to conform at some point........ :)
Again, there's a difference between rebelling, not liking something, and not be able to FUNCTION, for some people school just doesn't work, and why put up with something if there is no hope in getting anything out of it? Why stay in school if you are never going to graduate?

and, the world can revolve around your like and dislikes, at least your own life can, people just don't put up a fight, they just CONFORM to what "should" be, rather than what they want... sorry but I refuse to give up my life just to make society happy...



The point of doing homework, whether it's mindless busywork or not, is passing the class so you can move on to the next grade level.and what does passing teh class prove? you can learn the stuff and still not make the grades. higher letters do not equate to higher intellegence.

[DarkSidhe]

There's a difference between liking something, and having it be your ONLY outlet, what would you say if he did nothing but paint, instead of playing video games? You'd say he should look into attending an art school...
It's the same thing, the kid has ONE outlet in life, and he should not have it taken away, he should have it usedto his advantage to help him be successful...

For one, I highly doubt that it is his (Antoninus) ONLY outlet. If it were, he would not be online. If his ONLY outlet, even if he lived in some tiny podunk town in the middle of nowhere, is Playstation or X-box; that's his choice. I could post a five page list of things that you can do or get involved in when you live in a town that only has one stop light and have less than $5. Been there. Done that.

He says he read every book...If he's got a library within 1/2 hour, then he must be a remarkable speed-reader. His choice again, to stop reading, or maybe find a new book.

But the fact is again; we are not talking about someone who wants to drop out of High School, we are talking about someone who is having problems in Grade School. I don't think the Playstation alone is gonna help anyone in 8th grade accomplish anything involving success.

[Mindflayer]

For one, I highly doubt that it is his (Antoninus) ONLY outlet. If it were, he would not be online. If his ONLY outlet, even if he lived in some tiny podunk town in the middle of nowhere, is Playstation or X-box; that's his choice. I could post a five page list of things that you can do or get involved in when you live in a town that only has one stop light and have less than $5. Been there. Done that.

He says he read every book...If he's got a library within 1/2 hour, then he must be a remarkable speed-reader. His choice again, to stop reading, or maybe find a new book.

ok, but maybe it's the only thing he likes? or the one thing he likes the most?


But the fact is again; we are not talking about someone who wants to drop out of High School, we are talking about someone who is having problems in Grade School. I don't think the Playstation alone is gonna help anyone in 8th grade accomplish anything involving success.Playing the games won't, but making them will, and there ARE vocational and techincal schools for highschool students, not all of them are college-level

[PoetryInDespair]

Does he go to a middle school or a jr.high? If he went to a middle school(middle school ends at 8th where a jr.high at 9th) He could just be getting a strange sense of power. He could just be trying to understand all the things that are coming and that are going to start coming at him when he go to high school. I know I did when I wen into 8th at my middle school.8th grade is always one of the stranger years.:rolleyes:

[Kes]

Okay, for some background information:

My brother was in a similar situation. Very intelligent boy, but he would not do the work. Simply wouldn't study, wouldn't do his homework. My parents began checking his homework every night, and he'd lie about having already done it or he would throw the assignments out as soon as he got them.

My parents pulled him out of school to home school him, thinking he needed a different environment. It didn't work. Instead, he just fell further and further behind, and my mother was becoming increasingly stressed out from having to deal with him all day long.

So they sent him to a parochial school. He flunked out.

They sent him back to public school. By this time he's 16 years old and in the 10th grade. He barely passed 10th, 11th, and 12th grades, and went onto community college.

He flunked both semesters. They said he had to pay his own way for the next term. He still failed.

He's now 20 years old. No job, no job history, no driver's license, and less than two semester's college credit under his belt.

Computers remain his "only outlet."



My take on the situation being commented on in the thread:

He may break out of it. He may gain new interests or new insights. He could possibly do better in a different learning environment.

However, there is no way to guarantee any of that, and his education at this level is too important to let him screw up because he hasn't matured to the point of where he is responsible enough to force himself through what he doesn't like.

I agree that he needs to be disciplined - not in the sense of punishment, but in the sense of making him acquire discipline. Don't just ground him, take the computer away, take any games or electronics or toys or non-school books he has in his room away. Let him keep his bed, his dresser, a bookshelf with study materials, and a desk.

Now that he has demonstrated that he isn't mature enough to handle his responsibilities without being watched, he has to prove to his family that he can be trusted. If he grades improve to the level expected of someone with his intellect and abilities (not just from Fs to Cs, but to As and Bs) then he should be given his priviledges back.


The most important thing is, though, to remind him that he is totally capable of doing the material. That everybody knows he's intelligent, and to praise him when he does begin to get those As and Bs. Let him take pride in his intellectual abilities and academic accomplishments, and he'll develop the desire to succeed in school for its own sake.

[Mindflayer]

I don't understand this... why do people immediately just say "punish the kid". Punishment isn't what he needs, he's need HELP, punishing him won't help him.


My parents used to go through my bookbag without me knowing, they took away my TV, My stereo, my computer(once...). They grounded me, they called my teachers to get extra copies of my assignments... and you know what? I STILL didn't do the work, I refused to do it until they could give me either a VERY good reason why I should waste my time doing busywork, or until they decided to help me.


They asked me how they could help, I didn't know at the time, and they didn't even TRY to help me to find a way they could help me, they ignored me and continued with the "punishments"


All it did was make me lose trust in them, I hid my backpack, I lied to them about not having homework, I showed them OLD assignments to make them think I did it... they refused to help me, so I refused to do what they wanted me to...


eventually I figured out what i wanted (no thanks to them) and FINALLY, after 6 years of this crap, they helped me, they got me into a learning environment I enjoy, one that keeps my attention, and one where the work actually servers a purpose...



Punishing does not help, seriously, ask him if he needs a different learning environment, he can get the same education at a vocational school, AND learn a trade that will help him succeed in life...

[Calyx]

Again, there's a difference between rebelling, not liking something, and not be able to FUNCTION, for some people school just doesn't work, and why put up with something if there is no hope in getting anything out of it? Why stay in school if you are never going to graduate?

and, the world can revolve around your like and dislikes, at least your own life can, people just don't put up a fight, they just CONFORM to what "should" be, rather than what they want... sorry but I refuse to give up my life just to make society happy...



and what does passing teh class prove? you can learn the stuff and still not make the grades. higher letters do not equate to higher intellegence.

OK Mindflayer,
You got me going on this now. Here is the deal. He is in 8th grade, a point you seem to be missing completely. He isn't old enough to drop out, get a GED and go to a technical or vocational school yet. Maybe when he gets older, these could be viable options for him if he is still unhappy with school. But if I recall correctly, the original post never even mentioned him being unhappy with school. He just didn't want to do homework and wasn't motivated. That's where all the advice on this thread has come from.
I am sorry that you didn't enjoy school and that you feel like learning is such a waste of time. What a pity--you seem to be very bright and you've probably missed out on a lot of fascinating things because they were just "mindless". You are right, higher letters don't equate to higher intelligence, but they do say that a person has committed themselves to learn and indicate a level of responsibility.

I never suggested you have to give up your life to make society happy, but yes, there is a certain amount of conformity that must go on. I am a nonconformist on many issues, and people at work sometimes tend to see me as a bit of a maverick, in that I often go against the grain of the corporate environment, but I do know which situations it is appropriate to be different and which situations it is better not to press the issue. However, there are a number of ways that you do have to conform to society, but I won't go into them here. You seem to be suggesting that if you don't like something, then you just don't do it. Period. You can only do that so far, then you'll get into trouble. I suspect that you'll be finding this out for yourself, though.

Your own life can, to a certain extent, revolve around your likes and dislikes. But the world doesn't, and that's where the problems begin. You can control things to a point, but after that, well.......

[Mindflayer]

OK Mindflayer,
You got me going on this now. Here is the deal. He is in 8th grade, a point you seem to be missing completely. He isn't old enough to drop out, get a GED and go to a technical or vocational school yet. Maybe when he gets older, these could be viable options for him if he is still unhappy with school. But if I recall correctly, the original post never even mentioned him being unhappy with school. He just didn't want to do homework and wasn't motivated. That's where all the advice on this thread has come from.
I am sorry that you didn't enjoy school and that you feel like learning is such a waste of time. What a pity--you seem to be very bright and you've probably missed out on a lot of fascinating things because they were just "mindless". You are right, higher letters don't equate to higher intelligence, but they do say that a person has committed themselves to learn and indicate a level of responsibility.

I never suggested you have to give up your life to make society happy, but yes, there is a certain amount of conformity that must go on. I am a nonconformist on many issues, and people at work sometimes tend to see me as a bit of a maverick, in that I often go against the grain of the corporate environment, but I do know which situations it is appropriate to be different and which situations it is better not to press the issue. However, there are a number of ways that you do have to conform to society, but I won't go into them here. You seem to be suggesting that if you don't like something, then you just don't do it. Period. You can only do that so far, then you'll get into trouble. I suspect that you'll be finding this out for yourself, though.

Your own life can, to a certain extent, revolve around your likes and dislikes. But the world doesn't, and that's where the problems begin. You can control things to a point, but after that, well.......

Actually, I didn't miss the point he was in 8th grade, that's why in my other posts I informed them there ARE vocational -highschools- where you get the same highschool education, except it revolves around a trade skill you enjoy...

and, I haven't missed out on anything, in fact I'd say I have more experiences than the average person my age...
my advice is simply to help him get motivated and send the message "if you need help, just ask", instead of sending him the message "get motivated or suffer"


as for the conforming thing, I didn't say to doubt the wisdom of those more knowledgeable than you, I just said that you shouldn't give up what you like (and believe in) to fit in with society...

[Calyx]

Actually, I didn't miss the point he was in 8th grade, that's why in my other posts I informed them there ARE vocational -highschools- where you get the same highschool education, except it revolves around a trade skill you enjoy...

and, I haven't missed out on anything, in fact I'd say I have more experiences than the average person my age...
my advice is simply to help him get motivated and send the message "if you need help, just ask", instead of sending him the message "get motivated or suffer"


as for the conforming thing, I didn't say to doubt the wisdom of those more knowledgeable than you, I just said that you shouldn't give up what you like (and believe in) to fit in with society...


Hmm, perhaps I missed the "high school" part of the vocational school. Thought you were referring to a vocational or technical college.

I never said you had to give up what you like, just realize that eventually you'd have to conform in some way. :) No one should have to totally give up what they like just for society, unless it's something they shouldn't be doing in the first place. :smoke:
Moderation in everything is the key, yes?

[Mindflayer]

Define "conform" cause to me that means giving up something I believe in to make the majority happy, and I refuse to do that, and there is a difference between conforming and compromising, a compromise makes everyone happy, conforming squelches the voice of the little man...


If I truly believe in something, I will never back done, even if it costs me my job, or more...

[BrenaSidhe]

---As I read through this thread I had to laugh a bit and heres why---

---As a kid I started skrewing off in school at oh about grade 2, skipping school, refusing to do homework, you name it... WHY? no reason really, just didn't want to... Had nothing at all to do with lack of "Good Reason to apply myself" I just didn't wanna and found out real quick that, if I didn't wanna, I didn't have to, and it became a pretty fun game... In school detention didn't bother me, I kind of liked being looked at like the 'baaaaaad kid/rebel', besides I could hang out all day pretty much unsupervised and draw... Got my lunch brought to me, or got to go before everyone else and get my own food... Didn't have to eat in a packed loud lunch room with everyone else, and soon found out that if I positioned just right I could ease drop on the office staff... Staying after school didn't bother me, as it meant that I got out of most of my chores at home... Being grounded worked a little, but was really no big deal either, as my family was always going someplace or doing something... I was either taken with, as I couldn't be left alone that long, or left home and did as I pleased... Yelling didn't work, because I could keep an argument going untill my parents were so pissed off , that they'd scream to go to my roooom! my reply to that [cool ok]... Moms attempt at removing all my designer clothes worked a little better, but not much... I'd just wear the worst stuff I had and go to school laughing about it being the only thing left , cuz my moms taken it all away... Begging, pleading, bullying, explaining didn't work either, I just didn't wanna!

---Money, money worked pretty well, untill my dad said that to get the money, i had to pull A's or B's on report cards and would only gfet the money after he signed the cards... That kind of make ya work for it/prove yourself thing just pissed me off, didn't really need the money that bad anyways... Then my other stuff started disapearing, my art supplies, craft kits, my bike got hung and locked to the rafters,but what worked better than anything...

---Then after the threat of being held back a year, in the middle of 2nd grade, I was picked up from public school one day and dropped head first into a lutheran school... !!!-OMG-!!! I spent 2-1/2 years in HELL, with more homework daily than I've EVER seen, short of pre-med [seriously]... In school detention meant that you sat in the pastors office , under his direct and constant supervision... Then I found out in 3rd grade that the most evil teacher to ever be born [MR. RUDE] was going to be teaching 4th grade... I cried and begged to go bak to public school, my parents ok'd it, so long as I kept up on my work and did my home work... Well I didn't, but I knew enough by high school to pay someone else to do it for me...

---Now to my own kids, the eldest is now 18 and unfortunetly followed in my footsteps... The ONLY thing that worked with him 'at all' was removing the video games... And Sorry, a mentally normal kid is NOT going to go insane if you remove their damned video games, if that was the case we'd a all went nuts before they were invented... I'd give him points for finished homework, once it was checked and I knew it was done'right'... Then he got video game time 30-1hour depending, not hours... No games were played untill homeword was done, if he wanted to play he had to take the time to do the work 1st... That worked better than anything else ever did... Now the almost 12yr old is in homework truboule, he's less easily swayed by the games than his brother was... What works best with him, is the lure of getting to play the games, and having it known that if he misses an assignment, that the teacher WILL be calling us that same day... All his teachers know this, and if he misses an assignment, they take him to the office and make him call us to tell us about it, while they look on... Then they get on the phone and talk to us...
It takes a little of their time but it works [fairly well]... Also inacted is removal of friday rec/games n stuff time at school,if his stuff isn't done, he gets to sit it out in study hall...

---Homework SUCKS, I don't think there should even be homework, unless a kids missed school [make up work], but the schools now have maditory homework every week... It sucks but it's just the way it is...

---Comprimise verses Conforming---
---Heres the deal, rebeling is a normal thing, more so for some than others, BUT there are some things in thsi world that are simply not comprimises or options... There are some things that just are, either you 'conform' and do as your directed to do, OR you suffer the consequences of your actions... Unfortunetly kids don't see the true and full impact of these consequences, they see part, but not the long reaching effects there of... As parents, it's our job to try our damndest to if need be, force, poke and prod, these kids through this stage, so they can bypass all the BS that goes with the consequences of not doing or doing certain things...
---My kids hate to hear it, [this isn't an option]... You either do or you fail, if you fail you are held back and you've only your own self to blame for it... Pluss you don't get out of the work, you just have the same people on yer ass next year, shoving the same crap down yer throat... I don't see failing as the option here, failing is the consequence...

[Kes]

I don't understand this... why do people immediately just say "punish the kid". Punishment isn't what he needs, he's need HELP, punishing him won't help him.

It sounds to me as thought people are advocating that he get help - by taking away his distractions and forcing him to do the work.


At this point, he's 13 years old. He's still coming out of childhood. He doesn't yet have the capacity to make informed and rational decisions about himself, or about whether a trade or vocational school might be what he'd need. If he asks to go into a different learning environment, that's one thing (assuming that the parents even have access to one, which is certainly not a guarantee).

But that doesn't seem to be what's going on here. What's going on is a 13 year old boy who doesn't do his homework. What would you do if he wasn't doing his chores? What would you do if he was screaming and throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of a store?

Easy, take away his priviledges.

A little bit of slacking is one thing. We've all been through hard spells during our lives as students, I'm sure. But consistently failing courses in 8th grade is not just a "little bit" of slacking. It's permanently screwing up one's life.


Moreover, if he's really that addicted to video games that he can't function without them, that in and of itself is a serious problem. He needs other outlets, and taking away the computer/consoles will also help in regards to that.

[Mindflayer]

Brenda, i'm sure you have something in there I could respond to, but your text is -REALLY- small, so I can't even read it :p


as for:


It sounds to me as thought people are advocating that he get help - by taking away his distractions and forcing him to do the work.


At this point, he's 13 years old. He's still coming out of childhood. He doesn't yet have the capacity to make informed and rational decisions about himself, or about whether a trade or vocational school might be what he'd need. If he asks to go into a different learning environment, that's one thing (assuming that the parents even have access to one, which is certainly not a guarantee).

But that doesn't seem to be what's going on here. What's going on is a 13 year old boy who doesn't do his homework. What would you do if he wasn't doing his chores? What would you do if he was screaming and throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of a store?

Easy, take away his priviledges.

A little bit of slacking is one thing. We've all been through hard spells during our lives as students, I'm sure. But consistently failing courses in 8th grade is not just a "little bit" of slacking. It's permanently screwing up one's life.


Moreover, if he's really that addicted to video games that he can't function without them, that in and of itself is a serious problem. He needs other outlets, and taking away the computer/consoles will also help in regards to that.
I consistently failed 9th grade... 3 TIMES, and I didn't screw up my life, and I assure you at 13, I knew a LOT more than everyone thought I did, I just didn't show it, because it wasn't worth the trouble, and NOBODY listens to 13 years olds because "There's just little kids, what do they know?" A LOT, but nobody cares.

and, what would I do if he wasn't doing his chorse? what kind of chores? not cleaning his room? who cares, it's HIS room, he wants to live like that, fine, I'll just close the door when companies over...

now, if it was not mowing the lawn? I wouldn't take anything away, I'd just "suggest" that he does it, until he's so fed up with me, he goes and does it...


as for the "he needs other outlets" no, he needs other experiences, sure, but you can't make someone turn to using drawing, or building as an escape from reality... sorry, but it ain't gonna happen.


I can't make the parents do what I want them to, it's not my call, but I will stand by what I said, do not punish the kid, work with him, get him help to accomplish what you both want, taking away what he enjoys the most, will only hinder him... I WAS him, all my life...

[Valkie]

now, I remember when I was in 8th grade... school work was so damn boring that I did it all in 1) the 15 minutes that we had for home room 2) study hall 3) the 5 minutes at the end of class. Do any of you remember the mindless crude you had to learn in 8th grade?? I don't blame him for not wanting to waste his time on it at home.

and it takes a lot more than homework to fail *all* of the classes! This isn't a homework issue, this is a school issue. He's not applying himself at anything. Personally, I appeal to my boys hatred of working. one of those 'hey, don't worry, if you won't prove to the school that you know what they are teaching you, you'll just get to do it again next year.'

Actually, don't pay any attention to a word I've just said. My parents had it that my grades were my responsibility and no one else's. If I failed, que sera sera. I was the one who missed out on learing something and I was the one who had to deal with the consiquences, not them. I only failed one class and that was in 11th grade, because I refused to do the mindless homework just to prove to them that I knew it. (got A's on midterm and final). point is, I have no expertise in knowing how to make a kid do their homework. Maybe it's the fact that it is making such a big deal and getting so much attention drawn to him that is keeping him in the rut? Maybe he spends his time dreaming of bigger things than the square root of 847, or who was the 39th president of the US? Maybe he has a learning disability? Check all doors before disciding that he's lazy and a discipline problem.

Valerie

[Ben Trismegistus]

There's a difference between liking something, and having it be your ONLY outlet, what would you say if he did nothing but paint, instead of playing video games? You'd say he should look into attending an art school...
I recognize that this may be a bias on my part, but I would say that painting is creative, while playing video games is merely passive.

Also, just because someone enjoys video games doesn't mean that he's got the talent to WRITE video games. The two things are entirely different. Just because I like watching movies doesn't mean I'd be a good director or screenwriter. And there just aren't that many video game "tester" jobs out there.

I consistently failed 9th grade... 3 TIMES, and I didn't screw up my life, and I assure you at 13, I knew a LOT more than everyone thought I did, I just didn't show it, because it wasn't worth the trouble, and NOBODY listens to 13 years olds because "There's just little kids, what do they know?" A LOT, but nobody cares.
I just hope that you realize that your story is the exception rather than the rule. Given your own admissions about your academic credentials, I'd say that the fact that you're now in college and on a career track is astonishingly lucky. This is not a statement about your intelligence or talent - I'm sure you've got both in spades - but the vast majority of kids who fail 9th grade three times and drop out of school don't end up where you are.

[Mindflayer]

I recognize that this may be a bias on my part, but I would say that painting is creative, while playing video games is merely passive.
Yes, but they are both escapes from reality, lets your mind concentrate on something toerh than that which you do not wish to deal with...


Also, just because someone enjoys video games doesn't mean that he's got the talent to WRITE video games. The two things are entirely different. Just because I like watching movies doesn't mean I'd be a good director or screenwriter. And there just aren't that many video game "tester" jobs out there.

No, but there are plenty of Coder, Desginer, Engineer, Q&A, and Artist jobs(which there are about 5 or 6 different kinds, of EACH of these)



I just hope that you realize that your story is the exception rather than the rule. Given your own admissions about your academic credentials, I'd say that the fact that you're now in college and on a career track is astonishingly lucky. This is not a statement about your intelligence or talent - I'm sure you've got both in spades - but the vast majority of kids who fail 9th grade three times and drop out of school don't end up where you are.
yes, but the majority are also unintelligent slackers, and that's what I'm saying to help the kid, find out if he is just a slacker, or if he seriously needs a different learning environment, and criteria...

[Ben Trismegistus]

No, but there are plenty of Coder, Desginer, Engineer, Q&A, and Artist jobs(which there are about 5 or 6 different kinds, of EACH of these)
Like I said, if every kid who enjoyed playing video games wanted to work in the video game industry, it would be completely overrun.

[Phoenix_Blue]

Kids need privacy.
I disagree. Kids can earn privacy, but it is not something they need.

[Mindflayer]

Like I said, if every kid who enjoyed playing video games wanted to work in the video game industry, it would be completely overrun.
and like I said, there's a difference between liking something and having it be your only outlet and escape...

[Ben Trismegistus]

and like I said, there's a difference between liking something and having it be your only outlet and escape...
I don't see why that makes a difference. Just because it's your only outlet and escape doesn't mean you're qualified to do it as a profession.

[Mindflayer]

no, but it's a damn good reason to seek it and look into making it a career... what's a better way to learn then to learn using something you enjoy?

[Ben Trismegistus]

no, but it's a damn good reason to seek it and look into making it a career... what's a better way to learn then to learn using something you enjoy?
If that's so, it's vitally important to have other skills. Look at me. All my life, I planned to be in the performing arts -- an actor, a rock star, a musician. After 10 years of pounding the pavement, I realize that there are simply too many people trying to be performers, and there's no way I'll be able to support myself in that career. So I'm looking at other things. Luckily, I've got two college degrees (a bachelor's and a master's) and good transcripts. Had I dropped out of school to become a performer, I might not have that.

[Lai]

I hate to say this, but he really, really does need the video games and/or computer taken away until his work is done.

I'm probably not the best example, since I was on the computer 24/7 for the past three years and always managed to make nothing but all A's and high B's. Don't ask me how I managed that! :lol:

Yet... school isn't the only thing you miss out on if you spend your life glued to a screen. You miss out on socializing, interacting with real, physical things, and facing life. It's also not even a matter of whether or not he plans on it as a career. I'm a published author and studying to become a veterinary technician as well. Does that main spending every waking hour of the day writing and being perfectly studious is all right?

NO!

It's not healthy at all to do one thing, no matter what it is! You miss out on life, and eventually even your passion becomes "boring" too if overdone. Getting out, taking a walk, exercisizing a bit, and being with your family is something that will mess you up quite badly if left out (well, not those to the letter, but along those lines). It's not just games, either. Spending your entire life playing a sport or studying for school is just as unhealthy.

His computer/games are more than just an outlet for him. They're taking over his life, and seriously affecting his school work. If he's bored, why not challenge himself and study ahead in classes, or ask for harder work? Chances are, teachers will be impressed and give it to you! :)

I also had problems with my parents. I saw them as different people entirely, monsters who would never understand me at all. However... unless you're parents are physically abusive, drunks, or insane, they are not as horrible as they are made out to be. I finally tolerated a lot of the degrading, rude things they flung at me, and once they had figured out I no longer planned to hurt them right back the fighting stopped. My parents are no longer my parents anymore, but good friends... and we're finally a family. If you can't tolerate people who will love you unconditionally, you're going to have some serious problems once you get into the working world! :hehehehe: (Note that the "you" is a general "you" and not addressing anyone in particular!)

He needs limited access to his computer/games. I absolutely hated when my parents did that to me; I became immensely depressed and hated them badly. But after a few days when I had calmed down... they really had been in the right. "Life" really opened up to me again.

In conclusion, fixing the problem is just a matter of finding out what it is to begin with. You can't fix something when you can't find the break. :)

Oh! A final thought! Maybe try switching schools? In the past year I've been through three high schools, and I've only just now found one that challenges me and keeps me interested. Fr example; the first one was just the core classes, while the second involves us going out to farms, welding, and all sorts of interesting classes. Of course, he's not in high school yet, so you could try looking into the high schools and showing him that he needs good grades to get into the neater classes!

[Mindflayer]

If that's so, it's vitally important to have other skills. Look at me. All my life, I planned to be in the performing arts -- an actor, a rock star, a musician. After 10 years of pounding the pavement, I realize that there are simply too many people trying to be performers, and there's no way I'll be able to support myself in that career. So I'm looking at other things. Luckily, I've got two college degrees (a bachelor's and a master's) and good transcripts. Had I dropped out of school to become a performer, I might not have that.

I'm not saying it's not good to have other skills, it's a great to have a back-up plan... but that doesn't mean that forcing the kid to consume and spew-out the crap they're teaching him in-school is going to give him any skills... how does learning names and dates develope a skill? how does learning where commas go in a sentence develope a skill?

I too have a back-up plan, but that doesn't mean I'm giving up on my first plan, just because the back-up plan is "more reasonable" if everyone did that, we wouldn't have anything of artistic value...

[Phoenix_Blue]

Y'know, it's likely the kid is just plain addicted to the computer games. In that case, no amount of enabling is going to help. I agree, it's good to have a back-up plan. . . which means that while he might dream of a job someday as a computer game programmer, he needs to work toward that in school and, later on, in college. I am a computer programmer, and I can tell you that even video game programming isn't about just playing games.

Further, I have to wonder how many artists have "real jobs." I'm willing to bet it's quite a large percentage. Even my creative writing teacher, when I took the class some years ago in college, said (albeit half-jokingly) that people who wanted to write full-time would need to marry someone who would support them. Artistic careers, with very few exceptions, do not provide you with the money you need to live day-to-day.

[Ben Trismegistus]

I'm not saying it's not good to have other skills, it's a great to have a back-up plan... but that doesn't mean that forcing the kid to consume and spew-out the crap they're teaching him in-school is going to give him any skills... how does learning names and dates develope a skill? how does learning where commas go in a sentence develope a skill?
Writing and grammar skills are vitally important. I've worked in administrative recruiting before, and I can't tell you how many cover letters and resumes I've seen that are chock full of spelling and grammatical errors. And believe me, those letters and resumes go right in the trash.

And history is important (which I assume you mean by "names and dates"). How can we understand the world we live in if we don't understand where we've been as a society? School teaches you about REAL LIFE, which I think is much more beneficial than spending all of your time in escapist fantasy.

[Mindflayer]

ok, but you didn't answer the question...


What do grammer and history have to do with learning a trade skill? ;)

[Mindflayer]

Y'know, it's likely the kid is just plain addicted to the computer games. In that case, no amount of enabling is going to help. I agree, it's good to have a back-up plan. . . which means that while he might dream of a job someday as a computer game programmer, he needs to work toward that in school and, later on, in college. I am a computer programmer, and I can tell you that even video game programming isn't about just playing games.

I know that, I'm learning Game Design :)

[Phoenix_Blue]

What do grammer[sic] and history have to do with learning a trade skill?
Ben did answer your question. How many trade schools or potential employers do you think will accept your application for admission if your spelling and grammar are unprofessional?

[Mindflayer]

yes, but that doesn't help you LEARN the trade...

Like I said, the Technical/Vocational schools, teach the regular curriculum WHILE teaching you the trade...

[Ben Trismegistus]

yes, but that doesn't help you LEARN the trade...
Perhaps not, but it helps you get the job.

How many game designers do you think are out there? If a company is looking for a designer, and has 10 resumes on their desk, and your letter describes a video game that you'd like to "develope" [sic], your resume will probably end up in the trash.

I don't mean to be rude, and you'll probably just prove me wrong and have a perfect life, but you can't say that the information you learn in high school isn't important.

[Calyx]

Ben,
I think this is a lost effort. You aren't going to change his mind, he hasn't listened to anything we've presented so far. :rolleyes:
There are some life lessons that he's going to have to learn for himself! :) Soon, most likely.
Mindflayer, not to insult you, but this thread is becoming like :bangyourh . I think you so badly want to believe what you write that you are not listening to anything of value that other people are trying to point out.
I for one am giving up.....but I will keep reading to find out what happens!

[Mindflayer]

I'm listening, I'm just giving my side... it's a point/counter-point descussion...


and not everything I learned in highschool was a waste, just the majority of the time I spent there was...

All I am saying is that the school program does not work for everyone, it has a very specific style of teaching, and that style of teaching does not work for everyone... if someone is having a problem, find the source, just because someone plays video games all day does not mean that's the problem, it could be something else intirely, which in THAT case. a different learning environment is better suited to their needs...

[Lai]

"a different learning environment is better suited to their needs..."

Completely agree. If the school is boring, he doesn't like the kids/teachers, then he needs something more interesting and challenging. Switching schools is stressful, but works wonders. Been there, done that, am happier than I've ever been in my life. Once you find the right school, you actually look forward to getting up every (well, almost :hehehehe: ) morning!

And as a random thought; it's pointless to pureposefully avoid doing work because school is boring. Why? It goes against the reason a person refuses to do well in school! The better your grades and the more classes you pass, the faster you get out! Try and go to high school for 3-4 years.... don't try and you'll be a senior when you're friends are sophomores and juniors in college. I have yet to figure out the point kids see in not doing their work and basically trying to fail all their classes. Want to get out of school? Don't prolong it! :goodgrief Or maybe I'm just missing something entirely here?

And I also agree with whomever said this is just a case of video game addiction. It's no more of a healthy outlet (er, well, maybe it is...) than smoking. Games work your hand-eye coordination; well, it could also be argued that smoking works your "social" skills.

Er, right. No more sleep tea and then posting in a discussion for me.. :lol:

[BlondeNorse]

Further, I have to wonder how many artists have "real jobs." I'm willing to bet it's quite a large percentage. Even my creative writing teacher, when I took the class some years ago in college, said (albeit half-jokingly) that people who wanted to write full-time would need to marry someone who would support them. Artistic careers, with very few exceptions, do not provide you with the money you need to live day-to-day.
BINGO! I second that "commotion!" I've been a freelance writer (professional) for several years, and I've always needed a "day job" (or a "night job" ). I was also an active professional songwriter. (I had only one song cut, and it was a lousy album cut [not released as a single] on a lousy album, released by "Babs" Mandrell. Ugh. But a cut is a cut is a cut!) Since I am now physically disabled and bedridden, I don't have too much involvement in the music business anymore, so I stick to my prose and poetry writing.

I have next to no money, but I've learned to live on what I do have. Plus it does tend to free up one's mind if "work clutter" isn't getting in the way! I'm not the materialistic kind, thank goddess. Paid work is hard to come by, especially when most of it is "over the transom." I have yet to write the "Great American Novel," (*grin*) but I have the feeling that the things I most want to write about are things that most people don't want to hear. (The truth, for one.) (Or, perhaps, it's more "the truth as I perceive it.")

Although I have permanently distanced myself from my "family" (in every way possible, without packing up and moving, which cannot be done yet), my "mother's" last words to me have succeeded in helping to give me the worst case of "writer's block" conceivable! ("You're not a REAL writer; people can't enter your name on Amazon.com and find your writing!") That isn't exactly correct, by the way, but it still has me paralyzed.

My "father" wouldn't ever talk about my successes in that area. He has been writing, hoping to be published (besides his doctoral dissertation), all of his life -- but I beat him to it. (He's [i]not intellectually impaired, but he IS emotionally dysfunctional.) I was published in five books and all over the Internet within a period of one year. Major blow to the ego. <---(I can get away with sentence fragments because I'm aware that I'm doing it. Creative license. *grin*) I believe that he's jealous of my success, and refuses to admit it. I never flaunted it, goddess knows! I never even talked about it to my "father." Even though I dedicated the first one TO HIM, my "parents" don't own a single one of the five books that contain my work. I dedicated another to my nieces; my "parents" don't own that one either. I haven't a clue if either of my sisters owns a copy of any of them. Plus, I still burst into tears whenever people ask me about my "family." I hate that. I thought I had conquered that, but over the holidays, I found that I had not.

I asked the last psychotherapist I saw if he would hypnotize me enough to let me break through the writer's block and bolster that necessary dam of nasty tears?! Just enough to allow me to function?!! He said, "no." I need to "work through it," he says. (I know that; I have my master's in counseling and psychotherapy, but how many YEARS of therapy must I endure? It seems that 22 years of it should be enough before hypnotherapy is considered a valid option when the patient is severely hampered by the parental/familial damage?!!)

I've been turning the thought of working with it, magically, over and over in my head. I still don't know what I think about that.

Back on topic -- no matter what one chooses to do as a career, proper use of the English language is imperative. In both the verbal and written form. If it never made a difference where one places a comma, poor Willam Strunk, Jr. would have been a laughingstock and a pauper! :) Seriously, though, it does affect in what light most people regard you. "If it talks like an ignoramus. . . ." :drool:

If one thinks about it, proper use of the English langage does make an immediate impression -- even if that impression isn't a conscious one, but more of a subconscious one. Back in my "band days," guys who slurred lousy English that smelled of Budweiser at me weren't likely to get a second look. Believe me, I wasn't alone! Take away the "Bud breath," and the impression didn't get very much better! Take that to a more practical level -- personnel directors aren't likely to be as interested in people who can't fill out an application properly as they are in those who can. The same applies to people who are able to speak to them in an intelligent manner versus those who aren't. (One of my "day jobs" was as an assistant human resources director; I weeded out the people who weren't intelligent enough or interested enough in the job to write legibly, spell correctly, or punctuate properly. It was evidence of a lack of a proper education. Who were we hiring? Engineers and CAD operators. Proper English matters. Always.)

I've nearly written a dissertation here!! Sorry about that!! (I tend to talk a lot at times! No??!!!) :shhhh:

Blessed be! :smoochypo

[Vanessa TPD]

I'd like to second Ben T. and the others who said that limits needed to be set for your brother. Maybe taking his door off its hinges is a bit much, but definitely remove the lock. Other suggestions: your parents should have a conference with his teachers and check him for ADD if they haven't already done so. Check out the coursework he's doing and compare it to his own academic level - if it's too easy, you might want to pursue alternate educational arrangements (skip a grade, homeschool, etc.). If you can't find any extenuating circumstance to explain his lack of effort, then your parents are definitely going to have to set punishments and rewards to make him buckle down and do the work.

Hope that helps :).

[lorhawks]

I agree to a certain extent with what was said about by Ben T and the others about discipline... There is a certain amount of "punishment" which is essential for a child (and at 13 you ARE STILL a child), to learn to grow, and fit within societal rules.

That being said, I was also an underachiever. Not because I wasn't smart enough, but because, frankly, I didn't have the math skills to be in the level of classes I was in during middle school, but they pushed me through anyway. I still am struggling with math- I never caught up, and I have to work 5 times as hard as anyone else in my class. Is there a learning problem involved with this child? My brothers and sisters also all had learning disabilities which prevented them from doing well in school and frustrated them into giving up. Has any testing been done for dyslexia, or just poor logic/ordering skills?

Because of my grades, I spent most of my middle school years grounded, restricted, no tv, no friends, no computer, no phone, go to your room... all the disciplinary measures. You know what I did to compensate? I cut myself. I became very depressed at my failure in school and my isolation, and sometime in the sixth grade I turned to self mutilation and suicidal thoughts for compensation. This lasted well into my high school years.

I am not advocating a lack of disciplinary measure, it just seems odd to me that no one has yet suggested that maybe the kid is depressed! I think it would be wise to at least investigate this. Take him to a therapist, find out WHY. Middle school was a really rough time for me, personally. You have puberty just kicking in, and the social structure is being formed of popular/unpopular. It can be really stressful, if you are one of the "awkward" ones. Self-esteem can have a lot to do with scholastic failure.

Just my thoughts.