Prayer In School Problems

[Vampy]

I have 9 nephews 6 of whom are in schools, they are of either pagan or wiccan religion, the school that they go to normally allows student prayer groups to be held as long as they are lead by a teacher, but and I quote "We do not, and will not allow any prayer to anyone other than God!" said by the school principles in a Parent Teacher meeting. When my nephews who are as rebellious as me, and they are only 5 - 6 years old, start to invoke the Goddess in front of the principal we sent to IER (Individual Education Room) to keep them from Invoking the Goddess in front of their peers. They have been told that they are not allowed to wear their Celtic/Pagan/Wiccan jewelry. Which I am steaming about.

My Question Is What Are Your Opinions About Prayer In School?

And Should I Go To W.A.D.L and W.A.R.D With This?

Forever Yours,

[Wildstar]

In an ideal world, everyone should be able to pray and not pray how they wish.

Since this is not an ideal world, it should be universally banned.

In your situation, though, I think you should go to the Board, or whatever, and petition the ban against your religion and its symbols.

[lovemy1dane]

Are the kids in public or private school?? If they are in a private school, the school might be able to do that. If it public, then I would call everyone I can get my hands on . This is why I voted no. I f there was no discrimination, things might be different. As Wildstar said , this is not a perfect world.

[Ben Trismegistus]

Your poll is misleading, but I answered it anyway.

Yes, prayer should be allowed in school. HOWEVER, it should be allowed only on an individual basis. If you want to pray, as long as it doesn't take away from class time, that's up to you. But prayer *groups*, ESPECIALLY when led by a teacher, are totally wrong.

Personally, I don't understand why *anyone* needs to pray in school, other than a silent "oh god help me pass this test" from time to time.

[Radocs]

What Ben said.

[Vampy]

Are the kids in public or private school?? If they are in a private school, the school might be able to do that. If it public, then I would call everyone I can get my hands on . This is why I voted no. I f there was no discrimination, things might be different. As Wildstar said , this is not a perfect world.


They are in a public school

Forever Yours,

[Wintersteel]

hmm prayer in school.. I say no.. simply because unless everyone can pray in their own individual way(to their own gods and goddesses), then its discrimination. Besides, school is for learning math, english, science. Not Ideology or Theology (unless your in College). I don't believe it has anything to do with the separation of church and state. Good luck Vampy, with your kids school..


--Winter

[Chibi-Fallon]

"School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible because it sends the ancillary message to members of the audience who are nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community."
U.S. Supreme Court decision, Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, 2000-JUN-19

Now I'm not positive on this one but I do believe that most schools count the things that teachers do while on the clock as "school sponsored". And certainly the school principal saying "We only pray to God" is in violation of that.

Ah I found the bit I was looking for! It's from Equal Access Act
"The group is not sponsored by the school itself, by teachers, by other school employees, or by the government. This means that such employees cannot promote, lead or participate in a meeting. However, a teacher or other school employee can be assigned to a group for "custodial purposes."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/equ_acce.htm if you wanna see the whole thing

[LittleRhiannon]

At my school, we have a 'moment of silence' where you can pray if you want to. People aren't really expected to, so it's not too bad. I personally don't see the need really, for a general morning prayer I can do it AT HOME, and if I have something to pray about I don't need a whole moment of silence for it, but whatever.

Sounds like 1st class discrimination. contacting the ACLU would be a good idea. I hope everything goes well!

[Rockprincess]

I don't think prayer groups or structured prayer is appropriate, although a moment of silence is nice.

[Jenne]

Nothing wrong with prayer in school, as long as the school doesn't make you pray, and doesn't make you pray to anything specific.

But the question the poll asked, as Ben pointed out, was quite misleading. I don't think you meant, Vampy, "prayer to anyone" but rather "prayer to God", and not "allowed" but rather "forced" on the children attending that particular school.

So, I answered that I believed prayer in school should be allowed, but if I were to answer he question under the parameters you described below your poll, uh, no.

[Semele]

I would say that as parents we have to teach our children how to function in the real world and what better place to start then school. I disagree with any kind of organised religion or prayer in school especially if it is led by a teacher. I will also say that you can make it illegal to pray in school but that will never stop the silent prayers..and I believe they are heard just as easily as the loud, well publicised ones. Choose your fights wisely!

I saw a bumper sticker a few weeks ago that said something like.."God, how can you allow guns in our schools?",then underneath it it said "I am not allowed in schools" Now I understand the point they were trying to make with the bumper sticker, but to me it said something completely different..it said that the God they were talking to wouldn't be there to protect and love us where others had said he didn't belong. Hmmm, my Gods are with me always whetehr they are invited/allowed or not and I silently thank them when it is more appropriate. When I am in a more relaxed place like my car I thank them very loudly at times. the key is just finding the right response for the time. I am not hiding just making my life easier!

[Vampy]

I am sorry about the poll my brothers, and sisters, I did not mean to be so confusing, Jenne has stated exactly what I meant, once again I am sorry.

Humbly Yours,

[docdoo]

My children are, and always have been, free to worship in whomever, or whatever they choose. Their paths are as indivdual as they are...they are currently looking into many different religions, trying to find their niche in things. My oldest is leaning towards paganism and I must say that if something like what you describe happened to him in school I would be down there, phone in hand and the principal, myself and the school board would be having a lengthy discussion about the supreme court.

I would never suppose to push my beliefs onto anyone else, I expect to be afforded that same consideration. I would be utterly livid if that happened! Although, I also tend to get a bit hot-headed at times sooo....

Anyway until we live in a society where all religious beliefs are accepted then I vote no to prayer in school.

Until next time,

[SylverStar]

Yes prayer should be allowed in school. It should be outside of the class room though. We had a Youth group at my school. Youth on Fire and it was a Christian group that met every morning for prayer around the flag pole. Then they also met on Wednesdays like all other clubs. And a teacher did supervise the group. I found nothing wrong with this at all. I think programs like this should be allowed. I also think however there should be no restrictions on what type of religious group.

[ckynes1968]

I voted no. I don't believe that public schools should have any school sactioned prayer groups unless every students beliefs are represented.

[Jenne]

Yes prayer should be allowed in school. It should be outside of the class room though. We had a Youth group at my school. Youth on Fire and it was a Christian group that met every morning for prayer around the flag pole. Then they also met on Wednesdays like all other clubs. And a teacher did supervise the group. I found nothing wrong with this at all. I think programs like this should be allowed. I also think however there should be no restrictions on what type of religious group.
SS, *giggle*, sounds like ME in my hs days. I was quite the Bible thumper. The year I graduated, the administration decided to drop prayer from the Baccalaureate proceedings. I wrote and circulated a petition among the senior class to keep the prayer, lol. For political AND religious reasons.

Anyway, I agree, that there should be no limit on what particular groups would like to worship, if one group is allowed, all should be. Though, could you see the school allowing Satanists to worship en masse? Think not...

[Vampy]

LOL, thank you very much I will pass this information on to my sister so she can decide what to do... as for me I am staying out of it because if I get into it all Hell would break loose, Literally!

Forever Yours,

[Valkie]

I voted yes because there is a right in the US to follow whatever religion you want to and to pray were ever you want to. Where as the situation is the way that it is, I would definately bring it up to the school board and whoever else will listen. They are sending your nephews the impression that what they are doing is wrong and sending the other kids the impression that what they are doing is wrong. They are promoting the 'evil' stereotype to paganism whether they are meaning to or not and by saying that they can't pray their way, they are picking a religion, which is against the law.

[Vampy]

THat is what I am going to do I have had it up to my ears with this.

[Antoninus]

Prayer in school is asking for trouble. But Dane does have a point, if its a Private school, they make thier own rules. If its a public school, then you go into the the principals office, the district office ANYWHERE and raise hell about it. Schools are chicken when it comes to inforcing rules like that, they always back down when challenged by a parent with support because theyre affraid of a lawsuit. If you threaten to bring in the ACLU, a school will usually crumble. You REALLY might want to talk to your nephews about it tho, because though it may seem like a glorious victory for you, they might think otherwise. School kids are absolutely MERCILESS when it comes to teasing and if you squre off with the school and make a big deal, then you might cause problems for your nephews. The other kids might tease them more, some teachers will give them a hard time, the principal will be stricter in punishing them in the future. So if your nephews want you to, by all means, charge in with your sword drawn and banner waving, but if they dont want you to, I would QUIETLY challenge the school.

I voted no because it makes things FAR too complicated. Its like a teachers "No Talking during test rules". The teacher catches one person talking "But Mrs Someboddy! I was just asking for a pencil!" Then you have to play god and decide who gets punished and who doesnt, so teachers eliminate that by saying NO talking WHATSOEVER. If you let prayer into school, administrators have to play god and say "You can do this but YOU cant do that!" Its just easier to leave the whole package at home where it belongs. Plus the teachers and principals can play favorites if they desire, it just adds a new burden to a student and the school. No prayer of ANY kind should be allowed in school, this is the separation of church and state here.

[Vampy]

But but, i have to be ¿QUIET? what is this word, I have never seen this word before! *AHHHHHHHH! Runs behind the couch hiding from that horrible awful word!* But I do like the charge with your sword drawn and banner waving... now that I can do... LOL... but you do draw a very good point my young sir. I guess I had never thought of that before... hmmm.... I will talk to them... this school just does not know who they are dealing with!

Forever Yours,

[morrigen]

In an ideal world, everyone should be able to pray and not pray how they wish.

Since this is not an ideal world, it should be universally banned.

In your situation, though, I think you should go to the Board, or whatever, and petition the ban against your religion and its symbols.


I agree. This is what I was going to say. :)