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View Full Version : Teenage mothers are never given a chane!



FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 10:30 AM
I suppose, this could be classed as a rant, but it isn't a rant at anyone here.. just a rant about the expeirences i have with being a teen mom, and it's been bugging me for a few days now, and i just want to blurt out my feelings!

I am baisically sick of the way teenage mothers get treated, we get looked at with disgust, and we are typically stereotyped to be lazy, and not bothered to be a proper parent, and not give our children the love & support they need!

Okay, yeh, i agree! Its the majority of teen mothers who are like this, but why do all of us have to be treated like this without even getting to know us? And, if a teen started to ache for a child (and believe me it happens) then were looked upon as stupid & immature! We can't help our feelings, it's not our fault if we desperatly ache for a child in our teenage years! Again, if you try to tell an older person they will think we just want a child to look cool or play happy familys with!!!

As alot of you know, i fell pregnant at 14, and yes i desperatly wanted to become pregnant and she was planned! I hid that away from people for so long, then i thought, why? If they don't like it, tough! It was my choice, i knew EXACTLY what the consequenes were with my sister having her first at 17, and being pregnant with her 3rd by the time she was 21!
I am now 16 (very nearly 17) and i am pregnant with my second, which i must add, i did not plan! But i didn't have it in my heart to abort the child, and i dont think i could EVER give my child up for adoption, it would rip me apart! And besides, it was my fault i became pregnant not the babies, and in my eyes the baby doesn't deserve to suffer the consequences!

I am still with the father whos been a great support, he helps out with our daughter, and puts up with me at the worse of times when my S.A.D flares up real bad! Hes been great, hes always had a job. And he is the father to BOTH my children! I'm not a single parent with a different father for each child!

The other thing that bugs me, is when people automatically think we can't look after our children!!! Well, i think i have done a pretty good job at raising my daughter, she is a bright happy little girl who is very clever for her age, and i've brought her up, not my mom, not my aunt, ME! Of course, i live with my mom because of my age it hasnt been possible to get my own place, but i've never dumped her on anyone! Like alot of older mothers i know do!
I DON'T smoke or drink, that is a BIG no no for me! And i know older mothers who smoke heavily while pregnant and around their children, they don't work, don't have any grades, drink, hit their children......... but because they are older no one thinks any different!
I don't let ANYBODY smoke around my daughter or me, as im pregnant! I had my boyfriends mom beg me to let her smoke around me & my daughter so she didnt have to go out in the cold, and try to say she smoked with all her kids and they came out fine! Well, i wouldn't let her!
I hate going to my sisters, because everyone smokes, nevermind that there are 3 children in the house, they still do it!

And i am not lazy, i suffer with S.A.D and lost my friends even before i become pregnant with my daughter! I read tarot which im very proud of, i have hobbies which i love doing and i am making an effort to take a home course in Interior Design!


Okay, now i have that off my chest :lol: Again, this isn't aimed at ANYONE on here, i just really need to rant about that! And try to let people understand that no one should judge someone before even getting to know them! There are alot worse mothers out there, who are 30yrs old, but everyone turns a blind eye because they are of "proper age"

Hope i don't offend anyone, because thats not what this is intended for. :)

Bainidhe Dub
February 12th, 2004, 10:52 AM
I can relate - my cousin became pregnant at 16 (a month shy of 17) - and everyone expected that she would get an abortion, because she was 16, and not really a very responsible person. But I really have to commend her and other teen moms who DO make it work. Chrissy (my cousin) became so much more responsible that she took care of her mom, baby sis, and her own baby, while her mom was recovering from an extremely difficult birth - all while 6 months pregnant with her second.

This is something that you really can't lump "all teen mothers" together - it's really a case by case situation. I can't say all teem moms I know have been as responsible as you FGM and my cousin, because they aren't - but it's unfair to treat you all the same.

Kudos to you FGM :)

MoonDust
February 12th, 2004, 10:52 AM
:hugz:
people are retards sometimes. Live your life for yourself and those babies. As long as they're happy & healthy then life is good.

That's all that matters.

Seren Mara
February 12th, 2004, 11:30 AM
I'm glad you're standing up for what you believe in. I hate stereotypes. I could rant for days about people who think that students are lazy and just drink their way through uni and go to about one lecture a week. I'm not one of those, and I'm glad you're not a stereotype either! :thumbsup:

FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 11:37 AM
I'm glad you're standing up for what you believe in. I hate stereotypes. I could rant for days about people who think that students are lazy and just drink their way through uni and go to about one lecture a week. I'm not one of those, and I'm glad you're not a stereotype either! :thumbsup:

:hugz: Thats all i hear about uni people, is they drink & have fun!! So, how do they graduate if thats all they do??? :)

Oh by the way, i havent forgotten about your reading, my bf is back at work and i didnt relise how hard it was to find time to do them, heh... i'll get it done soon hon, i promise!

Seren Mara
February 12th, 2004, 11:41 AM
So, how do they graduate if thats all they do??? :)

That's what I always say in reply! Degrees are hardly a walkthrough. Anyway, I'm digressing.

And as for the reading, whenever is absolutely fine, or if you're too busy just PM me and let me know! I'm supposed to be doing one as well, I've had it to do for a while now but I haven't found the 'quiet time' necessary either. So I know exactly how you feel. :)

Semele
February 12th, 2004, 11:46 AM
Hun, all you can do is prove them wrong by being the best mom for your children that you possibly can be. That is the only thing any of us can do. Whether you are a teen or an experienced professional, there will always be someone who will try to pass judgement on you. The only one who's opinion matters is your child. When that kiddo smiles at you when you tuck her in and when she takes her first steps and goes to school and reads a book and graduates college and every other milestone in life..then you can look at your accomplishments and ask yourself if you did your best. I think you are an awesome mom!

Nissala
February 12th, 2004, 11:53 AM
Be proud that you have chosen to give your children life. People are going to think what they want anyway, as long as your children know you love them that is all that matters. My daughter went through the same thing (3 children before she was 20). I could not be more proud of her if she had become a doctor! :hugz:

MoonDust
February 12th, 2004, 12:12 PM
I could rant for days about people who think that students are lazy and just drink their way through uni and go to about one lecture a week.
we do????

wow how come no one told me!!?!:D

Gareth
February 12th, 2004, 12:19 PM
FGM, I am almost twice your age and even I have been under a similar gun.
Like Semele said, do your best that's all you can do.

For some idiots out there it's not good enough for thier standards.
They usually don't have any children, so what I say to them is :razz:

twolunarspring
February 12th, 2004, 12:30 PM
This, my dear, is one of the numerous injustices of modern life... people rarely judge you upon your own merit.

There are millions of mothers twenty years older than you are who are entirely terrible at it, just as there are many your own age. There is also many a mother of sixteeen who is loving, sensible and kind, and her children will grow to be a credit and a compliment to her.

Sadly, people tend not to see the big picture. Also, people refuse to take one seriously if one is younger than them, different to them... any person who does not want to get the best grades, go to the best college and get a nice, sensible job is regarded as a complete waste of space.

What can I say? There are many ignorant people in this world. But also, some good ones. Many, many good ones.

I believe that you are a wonderful mother, Fairy. And I am a very sensible person.

mudweed
February 12th, 2004, 12:44 PM
FGM, we all love you and know you're a great, dedicated, loving mother. (and a pretty cool person all around!) :huddle:


And like Gareth said... :razz: to anyone who thinks otherwise.

DayDreamer
February 12th, 2004, 01:35 PM
If my daughter were to get pregnant at age 14, trust me.... becoming a "good parent" would be the least of her worries. NO 14 year old CHILD (yes child) has any business having sex with anyone, let alone PLANNING to get pregnant. In my state, the legal age of consent for sex is 16. If my 14 year old got pregnant, her boyfriend would find his ass in jail so fast his head would spin. Statutory rape. Labeled a sex offender. No question.

I am militantly, adamantly against the idea that a 14 year old can be a responsible parent. Does that make me sound judgmental? Perhaps so.. but I don't care. If a 14 year old is THAT responsible, she DOES NOT GET PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE. The average American 14 year old is in 9th grade. NOWHERE NEAR old enough to be a parent. Unable to legally even GET A JOB, let alone support a baby.

If she were the incorrigible sort who continued on her path toward early parenthood, she'd find herself under lock and key in a juvenile facility until age 18 or 21, whichever I could manage. I'd most likely give up custody to state because I couldn't control her.... and if my 14 year old daughter felt the need to get pregnant, it's obvious that my own parenting skills were sadly lacking - and since that is what she's seen and learned, it's quite likely that HER parenting skills would be just as bad, if not worse.

Flame away.

Lil Miss Witchy
February 12th, 2004, 01:44 PM
The last poster blows me away!

Each person is different, and it seems like you are very responsible and taking care of your children! I commend you for that! I had a friend who got pregnant at 14, and she was no where near as responsible as you are! (She's 21, and her mother is now the legal gaurdian of her 6 year old!) But I had another firend who had a baby at 15, and is the best mommy I know! (She is getting married this summer to the father and they have 4 children between the two of them!! 4 at 23!!) But she loves her kids and raises them the best she can! They are also the most polite kids I know! (Please and Thank you are ALWAYS said!)

Don't let the people who don't understand your situation get you down! They don't understand where you are, nor do they see you're home life with your child!!

BTW; Congrats on your new little one on the way!

Lil Miss Witchy
February 12th, 2004, 01:46 PM
and if my 14 year old daughter felt the need to get pregnant, it's obvious that my own parenting skills were sadly lacking - and since that is what she's seen and learned, it's quite likely that HER parenting skills would be just as bad, if not worse.

At 14 I was having sex, and it wasn't that my parents were "Bad" parents, because they would have died had they known! It was that I fell in with the wrong crowd and got good at sneaking around on them!! But FYI, I am now 21 and getting married to the man who was my boyfriend at 14!

I'm not saying it was right for me to be having sex at 14; but it was nto a resault of my parents being bad parents; it was me being a bad kid...

Jenne
February 12th, 2004, 01:55 PM
My mother had me at 18, got pg w/me at 17. She was one of the best of mothers out there. She had all 3 of us by the time she was 25. She also had to live through the stereotype that she was too young, too ignorant to know better. She and my dad married at 17 while she was pg w/me, and she proved them all wrong. She made a home, stayed there with us til we all graduated, and now she and my dad are happily married still 31 years later.

True, they are the exception to the rule. But young parents can be ever much as loving and kind individuals (and yes, responsible too) as older ones. Heck, I know PLENTY of people who waited til their 30's to have kids, and they are HORRIBLE parents--leaving their children alone all the time, not caring who they are out and about with, excusing impolite behavior and irresponsible wrecklessness (not to mention trouble with the law and bad grades)...the list goes on.

The thing is, ANYONE can be a parent. And while the "ideal" situation is an older, more established person, or someone who can provide "the other half" of the parental unit, the fact of the matter is, not everyone HAS the ideal or IS the ideal. I've seen ALOT of success stories come out of certainly LESS than ideal circumstances, and I've seen a lot of failures out of the "two-parent, 2 1/2 income, white-picket-fence" family as well...

People really should take the time to look before they judge. And ageism goes both ways, certainly. Hugs, FGM, try not to take it personally. People are stupid. And all of us here who know you know how much of a loving, caring, GREAT mommy you are to your daughter and your unborn kidlet. :hugz:

FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 02:17 PM
If my daughter were to get pregnant at age 14, trust me.... becoming a "good parent" would be the least of her worries. NO 14 year old CHILD (yes child) has any business having sex with anyone, let alone PLANNING to get pregnant. In my state, the legal age of consent for sex is 16. If my 14 year old got pregnant, her boyfriend would find his ass in jail so fast his head would spin. Statutory rape. Labeled a sex offender. No question.

I am militantly, adamantly against the idea that a 14 year old can be a responsible parent. Does that make me sound judgmental? Perhaps so.. but I don't care. If a 14 year old is THAT responsible, she DOES NOT GET PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE. The average American 14 year old is in 9th grade. NOWHERE NEAR old enough to be a parent. Unable to legally even GET A JOB, let alone support a baby.

If she were the incorrigible sort who continued on her path toward early parenthood, she'd find herself under lock and key in a juvenile facility until age 18 or 21, whichever I could manage. I'd most likely give up custody to state because I couldn't control her.... and if my 14 year old daughter felt the need to get pregnant, it's obvious that my own parenting skills were sadly lacking - and since that is what she's seen and learned, it's quite likely that HER parenting skills would be just as bad, if not worse.

Flame away.

I just want to correct you on one thing.... My mother is the best mother i know! Shes been great with us all, and even had to cope during a very awful marriage to my dad! It may have been my dad that lead me to do the things i done, because of rebelling & being very depressed, but i don't take kindly people saying my mom was a bad mother & didn't do her parenting to the best she could! She done everything for us!

A parent shouldn't be put down for what their children do. It's like, when i had loads of time off school, who got the blame? My mom! Why? I haven't a clue, because she couldn't make me go to school! She could make sure i went into school, but whats stopping me for walking out?

I think the only way a parent can stop their children having sex at a young age, is terrifying the living day lights out of them, so that the seriously do think they'll be murdered for having sex, OR locking them up and not letting them have a life!

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 02:33 PM
I am so glad that you are a good parent, even at your young age. I am sorry you felt the need to have a baby so early, though. But may I ask a question: who is supporting you and this child, soon to be children? I know you are in England, but here in the states it's most often welfare. So that would mean that I go to work, make money, pay into the system, and then people on welfare draw out the money I've put in, because I'm working and they are not. Is your mother still supporting you? Do you receive any assistance? What about getting your O and A levels?

I am not intending to imply that you are doing this, but.....

I do resent a system that allows irresponsible people to continue to have babies and live off welfare, sit on their behinds in a subsidised apartment, raise up another generation to do the same, while I have to pay my own way. People who do that have an entitlement mentality.

Even though my hubby is from England, I don't really have any idea if there is a system like that over there that people abuse like they do here. I am hoping that you are one of the rare few who understand that your life choices should not be funded by others.

It speaks highly of you both that the father is sticking around, that you are taking care of your physical self and environment, and that have a support system. Take care, and safe, healthy babies to you.

MoonDust
February 12th, 2004, 02:35 PM
Day, I understand where you're comming from. I do. I would have heart failure if my 14 year old daugter would tell me she were pregnate.
Yes, I think 14 is too young. I was a teen once and I felt those cravings for a child. I wanted a baby. but if I want a child I have to stop being one myself.
Now I've got a cousin who got pregnate at 14. She droped out of school and made her baby her life. She ended up getting married to the dad. and now 15 years later, they're the picture of a happy family. Nice house, two cars, 2.5 children. That doesn't mean that I don't see how much she'd love to go to school. How when she was 18 and all my other cousins were out partying she didn't want to be out there with them flirting with cute guys.

BUT
The point to this thread is theat once a woman becomes pregnate -no matter the age- it's her job to be a good parent. I know of women who had their first child at "the right age" and are just not cutting it in the mom department. I've seen kids who at a VERY young age become pregnate and give their all (and then some) to that baby.

When I see a young mother I don't look at her with disgust or contempt I honestly hope and pray that this woman/child finds the strength to be and make her child happy.

Sylvan
February 12th, 2004, 02:37 PM
I apologise if anything I said on that other thread fired you up. Alot of it was from experience though, my sister got pregnant at 16 and went through alot of crap. My niece was a mistake- but is loved and cherished and was raised well. The other girl is *looking* to get pregnant.. there's a big difference... But then you said you were like her at one time... :( Did you feel differently after the baby was born?
I don't know. I'm sorry. :sadeyes:

FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 02:38 PM
I am so glad that you are a good parent, even at your young age. I am sorry you felt the need to have a baby so early, though. But may I ask a question: who is supporting you and this child, soon to be children? I know you are in England, but here in the states it's most often welfare. So that would mean that I go to work, make money, pay into the system, and then people on welfare draw out the money I've put in, because I'm working and they are not. Is your mother still supporting you? Do you receive any assistance? What about getting your O and A levels?

I am not intending to imply that you are doing this, but.....

I do resent a system that allows irresponsible people to continue to have babies and live off welfare, sit on their behinds in a subsidised apartment, raise up another generation to do the same, while I have to pay my own way. People who do that have an entitlement mentality.

Even though my hubby is from England, I don't really have any idea if there is a system like that over there that people abuse like they do here. I am hoping that you are one of the rare few who understand that your life choices should not be funded by others.

It speaks highly of you both that the father is sticking around, that you are taking care of your physical self and environment, and that have a support system. Take care, and safe, healthy babies to you.


:) My boyfriend, like i said in my other post, my boyfriend works, hes always had a job! And he supports us, now while hes wages are still quite low, we still live at my moms, we do pay our way, we don't just live here rent free!!
When she moves to Spain, she is going to kindly help us with a deposit on a new house, and by then my bf's wages should have rised.
But, my mom won't go anywhere until she knows we are stable and have enough money coming in to afford a mortgage :)

FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 02:41 PM
I apologise if anything I said on that other thread fired you up. Alot of it was from experience though, my sister got pregnant at 16 and went through alot of crap. My niece was a mistake- but is loved and cherished and was raised well. The other girl is *looking* to get pregnant.. there's a big difference... But then you said you were like her at one time... :( Did you feel differently after the baby was born?
I don't know. I'm sorry. :sadeyes:


Don't be sorry! None of what you said fired me up at all, it's been bugging me for a while actually! And, believe it or not, it is the older people (60-80yrs old) who are the nicest to me, and treat me with respect! You wouldn't think that would you?

Anyway, i've also said some things to the other girl about waiting, i didn't! Now i do NOT regret it, and nope, i don't feel any differently. I'm glad i had my daughter, shes one of the best things that has happened to me, and has made me respect things more!
I do try to persuade other girls to rethink it when they want to become pregnant, but it is their life. And if they will later find out it was a mistake, then so be it, and let them learn from mistakes, is all i can say!

But don't you worry, i didn't take any of what you said to offense at all :) and this post wasn't aimed at anyone!!! Just something i wanted to blurt out

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 02:43 PM
:) My boyfriend, like i said in my other post, my boyfriend works, hes always had a job! And he supports us, now while hes wages are still quite low, we still live at my moms, we do pay our way, we don't just live here rent free!!
When she moves to Spain, she is going to kindly help us with a deposit on a new house, and by then my bf's wages should have rised.
But, my mom won't go anywhere until she knows we are stable and have enough money coming in to afford a mortgage :)

Well done! It sounds like you are making your own way, with help given within reason.

When my kids need help with a downpayment, I certainly hope I'll be able to come forward and do what both my folks and in-laws have done for us. We've been married 21 years, but sometimes having that 10% downpayment for a home is just more than we can come up with. Both sets of parents would rather see us use the money now, and not wait until they're dead to inherit it. Besides, the death taxes would eat it up.

Stay happy, stay healthy.

Lil Miss Witchy
February 12th, 2004, 02:53 PM
Fairygothmommy, You are lucky to have such a supporting mom!!

My fiance's parents are very well off, but told us we have to make it on our own!(No monetary help what so ever) while my parents are not so well off (Just getting by is a stretch due to my dad being sick and out of a job for awhile!) And they are doing all they can to help us get a house and pay for our wedding!

Just wanted to give you (((HUGZ)))

Ben Trismegistus
February 12th, 2004, 03:05 PM
FGM, we all think that you're a very capable and intelligent woman. It's clear from your descriptions of your life that you are a caring and considerate mother who is doing her best to see that her child(ren) have a good life and a cohesive family.

But surely you must realize that you're the exception to the rule? Perhaps things are different in the UK, but in the US, there's a ton of teenagers having babies that they have neither the knowledge nor the expertise to care for. Additionally, these teenagers do not have the supportive mother and boyfriend that you do.

So, I understand your rant, but also understand that just because you don't fit the stereotype doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of women out there who do.

FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 03:18 PM
So, I understand your rant, but also understand that just because you don't fit the stereotype doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of women out there who do.

Yep, i know! But what i was saying is for people to not stereotype everyone before they get to know them.
But also, it's not just teens who fit under the typcial stereotype, there are also older mothers (i love a few personally) who are not good mothers, but because they are older people tend to not take any notice. When it is a teen mom, it's suddenly the end of the world.

docdoo
February 12th, 2004, 03:38 PM
FGM...I understand your frustration...in fact went through the very thing myself with my own children. I can truly see both sides of the coin on this one...I was pregnant very young as well...and, truth be told, was in no way, shape or form ready for the committment I had made.

I get Ben and I get Day Dreamer because...as they pointed out...you are in England. Perhaps things are different there? Here it seems that at least 2-3 times a month you hear about yet another baby being born by a teenage mother who was thrown in a trash can to die.

In saying this I certainly dont mean to imply that all young mothers behave in this fashion I know I didnt, and clearly you arent either. Having said that I'll reiterate, people are jaded with teenage mothers. And, its probaly a fair assessment as the majority of them end up living off the system or becoming a financial burden to everyone around them...that is if the grandparents dont end up raising the child anyway. Cases of kids being born at prom and then stuffed into garbage cans are cropping up all over the United States. Pregnancy rates amoungst teens is rising at an astronomical rate.

As these things happen we find several common thread to the old equation...first off it is precisely teenage mothers/fathers who are most likely to abuse their children. Secondly one of the largest categories of welfare recipients are women 20 and younger who began having children before they left school.

We find the same story over and over and yes..I agree that the stereotyping is unfair at best. One cannot simply assume that just because you are a teenage mother you are a bad parent...but the facts argue that most teenage moms will NOT care for their children properly. This is why you get the backlash...and its not fair and its not right, it just is.

I hated the stereotyping when I was in your situation...my parents, though they did not disown me, told me that if 'You are enough of an adult to have a child...then you are also adult enough to get your own place' Cruel? yes...but a potent lesson. It is only after all these years have passed that I see the wisdom in their actions.

In life there are stereotypes everywhere...even in your very own post! Quite frankly I am a very good mother...I have 3 well adjusted very polite boys who hold open doors for ladies and help old people with their groceries...I also smoke.

I smoke in my home around my children, I am aware that this is not 'socially acceptable' and that I am opening myself up to a world of flames by saying it. The only reason I do so is because I want to point out that stereotypes are everywhere. Many people would assume that by virtue of smoking, I am a bad mother, or that I dont care enough for my kids. All of which is false...however I open myself up to that stereotype by the choices I made, the choices I continue to make. I wish that that stereotype did not exist, I wish that people would not hear that I smoke and assume that I am negligent.

I also wish that when people found out I was pagan they didnt immeidatly ask me about blood sacrifices...but...having chosen the path that I have chosen I am aware of the stereotypes that are associated with my decisions. The only thing I can do is to show through actions. Its obvious that you are a good mother...but its also fact that you chose a path that has a stereotype associated with it, just as I did. The only defense you have against the being categorized is to lead through example.

Perhaps you were reading to have a baby...clearly, even if you werent you have stepped up to the plate and taken care of what you have created. You seem to be a wonderful person and a good mother, but you have to understand that people will never stop categorizing one another, it is part of human nature. All you can do is be the exception to the rule and know that when people talk about teenage pregnancies they are not referring to you.

hmmm I hope that I made my point the way I wanted to...it seems that without the aid of eye contact and body language much can become lost in the translation.

til next time

Ben Trismegistus
February 12th, 2004, 04:04 PM
Yep, i know! But what i was saying is for people to not stereotype everyone before they get to know them.
But also, it's not just teens who fit under the typcial stereotype, there are also older mothers (i love a few personally) who are not good mothers, but because they are older people tend to not take any notice. When it is a teen mom, it's suddenly the end of the world.
Well, it's easy to have a knee-jerk reaction when so many teenage mothers fit the stereotype. It's unfair to you, yes, but it's difficult to avoid.

One of the big differences between the UK and the US is that you never had to worry about your daughter's medical care. The vast majority of teenage mothers in the US don't have health insurance, for themselves or their babies. You know from personal experience how often babies get sick (and I know, because Joey's got a fever right now!), and a teenage mother on her own probably wouldn't have the money to take her baby to the doctor.

While I have no first-hand experience in this, my wife worked in social work (Child Protective Services) for awhile, and my sister worked for Planned Parenthood for awhile, and both have told me story after story about pregnant teenagers and with no earthly clue what they were in for. According to both my wife and sister, the vast majority of these women were having babies for one of three reasons:

1. "I want someone to love me unconditionally."

2. "Having a baby will make my boyfriend want to stay with me and stop sleeping around."

3. "Babies are cute and cuddly."

You can, obviously, see the fallacies in all three of these reasons, but many teenagers don't. I'm sorry if you get caught up in the generalization, but this is an issue I feel very strongly about.

Wintersteel
February 12th, 2004, 04:07 PM
Hang in there! I had my daughter when I was sixteen. I put up with alot of negative attitudes for a long time..Especially with the school districts and teachers.. They thought that because I had my daughter so early in life, that I didn't understand the importance of a good education. I *gradutated* high school.. Shoot, Im 30 now and I still get crap from my daughters school.. Don't let it get you down..


Love and Light!

Wintersteel :hugz:

Linx
February 12th, 2004, 04:07 PM
Just a ***Hug Fairygothmommy

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 04:17 PM
i am pregnant with my second, which i must add, i did not plan!


May I also ask, since I'm sure you are quite aware of what causes a female to get pregnant: did you take precautions during sex so that the second, unplanned child, was never an issue?

Not really my business, of course, but that's something that I always wonder about with unwed mothers, or teenagers (of either sex) who are on their second or third child. A condom doesn't cost that much, and while not 100% reliable, better than nothing at all. And yes, because we are the sex that bears the children, it is always in our best interests to be responsible. Males should do, but rarely do.

zehava
February 12th, 2004, 04:46 PM
I do resent a system that allows irresponsible people to continue to have babies and live off welfare, sit on their behinds in a subsidised apartment, raise up another generation to do the same, while I have to pay my own way. People who do that have an entitlement mentality.

wow... another stereotype. this may be off topic, but i HAVE to respond to this.

*i* live in subsidised housing. *i* have lived in numerous subsidised complexes... co-ops. i have been on the board of these co-ops and i KNOW that the majority of people living in the communities i have lived in DO NOT sit around on the asses all day. the majority of the folks, from my experience, are hard working people, with full time jobs that just don't pay as much as the average american/canadian. they are the ones who serve you lunch at mcdonald's or work full time at kmart. they work their BUTTS off at low paying jobs trying to 'move up' in the world. without the subsidised housing, i don't see how they'd be able to continue to work their way up the ladder. many many of the people who live here eventually move out into their own FULL RENT apartments or finally get a decent paying job opportunity and buy their own homes. if they do decide to stay within the community, they pay full rent for their units. they do not have an 'entitlement mentality'.

the other majority in the communities i have lived in are the elderly. they are living on tiny pensions that just don't allow for them to live in full rent apartments or own their own homes/condos anymore.

that said, i do also know that there are people out there who abuse the system. that is a shame and it shouldn't happen, but it does. however, you shouldn't judge everyone who is on welfare or lives in subsidised housing by the few bad folks.

-z

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 04:55 PM
wow... another stereotype. this may be off topic, but i HAVE to respond to this.

*i* live in subsidised housing. *i* have lived in numerous subsidised complexes... co-ops. i have been on the board of these co-ops and i KNOW that the majority of people living in the communities i have lived in DO NOT sit around on the asses all day. the majority of the folks, from my experience, are hard working people, with full time jobs that just don't pay as much as the average american/canadian. they are the ones who serve you lunch at mcdonald's or work full time at kmart. they work their BUTTS off at low paying jobs trying to 'move up' in the world. without the subsidised housing, i don't see how they'd be able to continue to work their way up the ladder. many many of the people who live here eventually move out into their own FULL RENT apartments or finally get a decent paying job opportunity and buy their own homes. if they do decide to stay within the community, they pay full rent for their units. they do not have an 'entitlement mentality'.

the other majority in the communities i have lived in are the elderly. they are living on tiny pensions that just don't allow for them to live in full rent apartments or own their own homes/condos anymore.

that said, i do also know that there are people out there who abuse the system. that is a shame and it shouldn't happen, but it does. however, you shouldn't judge everyone who is on welfare or lives in subsidised housing by the few bad folks.

-z

Right. Okay. I was obviously not clear enough in my intent. What I said was irresponsible people sitting on their behinds, having babies to get the welfare, and then raising their kids to do the same. I said the IRRESPONSIBLE people. I was not impinging the values or honor of those people whom you describe, who seem to be hard-working folk. I was describing a facet of the welfare system, not the entire welfare system. If it came across as such, then I apologize. But please do not put words into my mouth. I clearly said: Irresponsible.

FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 05:01 PM
May I also ask, since I'm sure you are quite aware of what causes a female to get pregnant: did you take precautions during sex so that the second, unplanned child, was never an issue?

Not really my business, of course, but that's something that I always wonder about with unwed mothers, or teenagers (of either sex) who are on their second or third child. A condom doesn't cost that much, and while not 100% reliable, better than nothing at all. And yes, because we are the sex that bears the children, it is always in our best interests to be responsible. Males should do, but rarely do.

Yes, we used condoms! And i explained that in my other post *i think* anywho, i did say, it was my fault for getting pregnant, i should have been cautiuos and felt guilty to make the baby suffer the consequences... that was an awful time going through having to consider abortion.

But, i was also saying to my bf a bit ago, that it seems to be ok for older woman to fall pregnant by accident 2 or 3 times, they don't lectured about using contraception, so are they stupid & immature too? Because, most people seem to think that older women know more, so they should know more about using contraception right?

zehava
February 12th, 2004, 05:02 PM
Right. Okay. I was obviously not clear enough in my intent. What I said was irresponsible people sitting on their behinds, having babies to get the welfare, and then raising their kids to do the same. I said the IRRESPONSIBLE people. I was not impinging the values or honor of those people whom you describe, who seem to be hard-working folk. I was describing a facet of the welfare system, not the entire welfare system. If it came across as such, then I apologize. But please do not put words into my mouth. I clearly said: Irresponsible.

apologies. i wasn't intending to put words in your mouth.

please keep in mind that there are definitely irresponsible people in all income brackets though. yes, there are definitely irresponsible people on welfare and living in subsidised housing, and yes, the system really needs to be worked on and improved to avoid this. i agree. i think i just took your post in the wrong light.

yes, this is a pet peeve issue of mine. lol. sorry if i came across as putting words in your mouth though.

((hug))

-z

Ben Trismegistus
February 12th, 2004, 05:07 PM
But, i was also saying to my bf a bit ago, that it seems to be ok for older woman to fall pregnant by accident 2 or 3 times, they don't lectured about using contraception, so are they stupid & immature too? Because, most people seem to think that older women know more, so they should know more about using contraception right?
Depends on the circumstance. A married woman in her 30s having an accidental child is different than a 15-year-old high school student having an accidental child. If both got pregnant because they didn't use protection, then they were both irresponsible. But it's a slightly different situation in the case of the older married woman, who (one assumes) has greater resources with which to care for a child.

There are exceptions to every rule (as I pointed out) but the reason why younger women tend to get more flak for unplanned pregnancies is the same reason why many teenagers get more flak for turning to paganism than older people -- because it's assumed (sometimes correctly, sometimes erroneously) that the teenager is not fully aware of what she has gotten herself into.

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 05:10 PM
apologies. i wasn't intending to put words in your mouth.

please keep in mind that there are definitely irresponsible people in all income brackets though. yes, there are definitely irresponsible people on welfare and living in subsidised housing, and yes, the system really needs to be worked on and improved to avoid this. i agree. i think i just took your post in the wrong light.

yes, this is a pet peeve issue of mine. lol. sorry if i came across as putting words in your mouth though.

((hug))

-z

Peace. The system does need to be revamped to help those truly in need and kick out the leeches. As for irresponsible people in all income brackets, one only has to look to those top execs in Enron, etc.

And we all need pets, peeves or otherwise! :hehehehe:

FeatherGoblinglimmer
February 12th, 2004, 05:16 PM
Well i got pregnant with my daughter when i was 17, didn't even know i was pregnant till i was in labour. I had left my then partner and biological father around the time conception must of occured. I was on the pill till i split up with aforementioned partner.Which i then came off as i wasn't sexually active.

I know exactly what Fgm is feeling. I don't know what it's like in America and i wouldn't even presume to know. what i say is all to do about the way england is.

I was a hard working girl b4 i had her, often working 50+ hours a week.. I had my own flat. Which was a complete dump...Ceiling falling in, rot, mould,on several occasions there was a terrible smell that came from the drain outside cos the man who owned the shop downstairs did god knows what to it..i dread to think.

Luckily i had some money put by for when the birth happened, if i hadn't i would have been homeless. And no, i wouldn't have immediately been put in a council place. They would have put me in a type of hostel, very similar to those you hear about from years ago, when our grandparents were young.Where their would be other single mothers ranging from many ages. The rules as i were told were pretty draconian. You had to stay there every night... no staying over at friends. No being out after a certain time... etc, etc.Supervision with baby. That kind of thing.As it was it took the council 6 months to move me into a bigger, slightly less trashy dump!
The back kitchen wall has eroded away above the window, you can see the outer brick work.For over a year we had used water, drainage, bathroom, all icky stuff leaking over the kitchen sink.The only reason the council came out to fix the ever increasing problem was my fiance's father( an aged man of about 60 ish) going into the office to complain. I had gone in there on several occasions myself b4 this, but i had only been palmed off.Other parents that i know, older than me or couples are listened to and treated entirely differently.

As for sitting on my ass lazily... It actually works out better for me not to work and live off the benefits. To earn as much as i now get on benefits i would have to be working 13+ hrs a day at a minumum wage job which is all i am qualified to do. Which i think is negligent to my daughter. I want her raiised by me, not some nursery worker.

FGM don't be discouraged hun((())))

CajunLady
February 12th, 2004, 05:23 PM
I'm a teen mom, or was. I found out 3 days after my 16th birthday. I look up topeople like you though. My parents are raising my son. I see him, but his father hasn't been around since he was 2 months old. He knows I am his mom. It's a long complicated story with him. But the fact that you are raising him and the father is still around, that's just great. 3 words of advice--Ignore the idiots!! I had to!! One thing I do enjoy about having a 10 year old son is that I'm still young myself and it's fun to play around, etc. Basically, yeah, we grew up together! And it's not something I would recommend for everyone. But it's not something I regret either. I also learned to do the things no one though I was going to do, like graduate high school, etc. I'll show them!!! Now, I don't kow you very well, but from jsut this psot alone, I think you are a very good mom. And mom's come in all ages, sizes, colors and sex(yes sex!!) Chances are that 20 or 30 soemthign year old mom giving you greif sees you as the mom she should be--a great one! So hold your head up high! You sound like you've got a wonderful life!!!

FaerieGothMommy
February 12th, 2004, 05:26 PM
I'm a teen mom, or was. I found out 3 days after my 16th birthday. I look up topeople like you though. My parents are raising my son. I see him, but his father hasn't been around since he was 2 months old. He knows I am his mom. It's a long complicated story with him. But the fact that you are raising him and the father is still around, that's just great. 3 words of advice--Ignore the idiots!! I had to!! One thing I do enjoy about having a 10 year old son is that I'm still young myself and it's fun to play around, etc. Basically, yeah, we grew up together! And it's not something I would recommend for everyone. But it's not something I regret either. I also learned to do the things no one though I was going to do, like graduate high school, etc. I'll show them!!! Now, I don't kow you very well, but from jsut this psot alone, I think you are a very good mom. And mom's come in all ages, sizes, colors and sex(yes sex!!) Chances are that 20 or 30 soemthign year old mom giving you greif sees you as the mom she should be--a great one! So hold your head up high! You sound like you've got a wonderful life!!!

Nicely put! :)

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 05:30 PM
As for sitting on my ass lazily... It actually works out better for me not to work and live off the benefits. To earn as much as i now get on benefits i would have to be working 13+ hrs a week at a minumum wage job which is all i am qualified to do. Which i think is negligent to my daughter. I want her raiised by me, not some nursery worker.

FGM don't be discouraged hun((())))


Thank you for the insight into subsidised housing, you called it Council housing? I, too, would have preferred to stay at home with my children and raise them myself, but it took both my husband's income and mine to buy a house, and used cars. We don't live in a new house, and we've never had a new car. We go on vacations that don't take much money, and buy generic foods and clothes from Wal-Mart.

We didn't believe it was right to let the state pay us to stay at home when we are perfectly able to work. If one of us were disabled, that would be different. And it was hard to leave my children with daycare, don't ever think that it wasn't.

A 13+ hours a week job? I'd LOVE to only work 13 hours a week. You should try more like 40-50.

FeatherGoblinglimmer
February 12th, 2004, 05:38 PM
As i said...b4 i had my daughter i was working 50+ hours a week...And i am sorry, i meant to put 13 hrs a day not week there. I must apoligise there.I would love to work now. B ut sa i put i wouldn't have the quality time with my daughter that i think she deserves.

FeatherGoblinglimmer
February 12th, 2004, 05:40 PM
As for the comments on vacations and cars and clothes....Most of my daughters clothes come from charity shops, her toys were mostly gifts and as for my clothes...i rarely have new ones and the stuff i have are old and tatty. If it wasn't for my partner i wouldn't live any kind of decent life at all.He doesn't live with us, but he does take care of us when we need it. We plan to move next year into a rented place of our own and are saving all we can to make sure all goes well.

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 05:42 PM
Before this becomes a "Flame the Dragon" thread, I must say that I have posted that FGM is a responsible young woman, with her head on straight. She is taking care of her kids, and since her bf has a job, they are not on assistance.

Her mother is helping them with a downpayment on a house, and she choose life over abortion when the instance was not rape, incest, or deformity.

I am not judging any of you, and wish only that those who abuse the system would stop and quit living off my tax dollars.

Whew! Might have to bow out of this thread now, as I am beginning to get a hot foot from the vibes.

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 05:47 PM
As for the comments on vacations and cars and clothes....Most of my daughters clothes come from charity shops, her toys were mostly gifts and as for my clothes...i rarely have new ones and the stuff i have are old and tatty. If it wasn't for my partner i wouldn't live any kind of decent life at all.He doesn't live with us, but he does take care of us when we need it. We plan to move next year into a rented place of our own and are saving all we can to make sure all goes well.


Best of luck!! I'll certainly keep you in my prayers and hope that it all does indeed go well.

:huddle:

Ben Trismegistus
February 12th, 2004, 05:56 PM
I am not judging any of you, and wish only that those who abuse the system would stop and quit living off my tax dollars.
I agree with you there. I support welfare programs, but I believe that they are there to *help* people get on their feet, not to support them indefinitely.

Athena-Nadine
February 12th, 2004, 06:05 PM
FGM, I see what you’re saying, and I have no doubt you are the best mother you can be to your child (soon children). Everyone on here knows how important your children are to you. :)

My mother was pregnant with me at 15. She was 16 when I was born. And my father was 28. Yes, I know what you’re all saying—"Oh, my gods! He should have been in jail!" And you know, if it was my daughter, no doubt I would agree. By the time my mother was 18, she had three children (my brother and sister are twins). When I was 7 and she was 23, she took in my cousin who lost both of her parents. At 30, she had my baby brother.

My mother dropped out of high school after she got pregnant with me. My parents didn’t get married until I was 8. Because of her parents, I was almost put up for adoption at birth against my parents’ will. My mother had to run away from her family and hide at my paternal grandmother’s house until I was a few months old. My mother got her GED and decided to get financial aid and go to college as soon as my brother and sister were in Kindergarten. We were on Welfare until I was about 8. I was in 4th grade when my mother graduated. Right after that, she got a full-time job in Manhattan making only $5.00/hour. She worked at that market research company for about six years before moving to another market research company. She was with that company for over eight years, and was a Vice President when she left. In ten years, she went from making only $5.00/hour to being a Vice President.

Almost a year and a half ago, my father had a stroke that has left him completely paralyzed. He can do nothing but blink. My mother still has my baby brother at home. He will be graduating high school this year. So here she is, only 47 years old, taking care of a teenager and a completely incapacitated 59-year old husband. She has raised four adults, and one almost-adult. While my father has always been in my life, my mother did all of this almost single-handedly, as he was always out getting drunk or doing drugs somewhere. I am also in the top 5% of household income in the country. My brother has been in the Army for almost 8 years. He was sent to Iraq last March and will not be home from the Middle East until this March, at the earliest. Only one of my siblings—one of my sisters—is the mess that everyone thought we all would be. Unfortunately, she took after my father.

My mother, who everyone said was too young, who everyone said was ruining her life, is my greatest inspiration. I can’t say "I can’t…" do anything without thinking of everything my mother accomplished—with children—and feeling ashamed for thinking of giving up. I have never known her equal in strength and determination, and probably never will.

My mother is now also one of my best friends. There is nothing I can’t go to her with. She even knew the first time I ever had sex! Many of my friends can’t believe how freely we will talk to each other. *…laughs…* But then, it’s always been a joke between us that we’re so close in age.

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 06:14 PM
Nallia, your mother sounds like an exceptional woman. You have every right to be proud of her and to hold her in high esteem. She is who the system was designed for, to help succeed and then move on.

Blessings on you and yours.

FeatherGoblinglimmer
February 12th, 2004, 06:20 PM
Dragons chest i hope you don't think i was attacking you because i wasn't. I was just adding my experience and thoughts for FGM and all others on this thread. The systems in England and America are incredibly different and i wanted to maybe help people to understand what it is like here.*huggles*

DragonsChest
February 12th, 2004, 06:27 PM
Dragons chest i hope you don't think i was attacking you because i wasn't. I was just adding my experience and thoughts for FGM and all others on this thread. The systems in England and America are incredibly different and i wanted to maybe help people to understand what it is like here.*huggles*

No worries! :hugz:

My hubby is English, but we've been over here for the last 22 years. We'll be visiting the UK next year, summer of 2005, after years of saving. I want my children to meet their cousins before my son goes off into the world. He'll be 18 then, and it will probably be the last trip we get to take as a family.

Although his family is all over the pond, I don't have any real experience with the social system. We lived there for 4 months when we got married, in a tiny little flat in Woking, but then moved back to the states because the job market was better here.

The systems in each country must be very different, as you and FGM have described.

twolunarspring
February 12th, 2004, 07:04 PM
You know... it just goes to show that stereotypes are rarely accurate: on a message board within a pagan website, one might expect the contributors to be a little more latitudinarian. On the contrary, though, judging by some of the rather incensed comments I have read in this "thread", those who lead 'alternative' lifestyles are not always the open-minded individuals that they might purport to be.

mudweed
February 12th, 2004, 10:48 PM
I certainly didn't read any of the replies on this thread as particularly "incensed." Open-minded doesn't mean that we all agree on everything. Sometimes is hard to accurately judge another's intent from their words alone. Perhaps you'll give all the posters a second chance?

Antoninus
February 12th, 2004, 11:18 PM
The "teen mother" stereotype isnt good, having known a few of them myself. Theyre always portrayed as lazy sex queens who dont care about anyone but themselves and irresponsible. Its always escaped me why people take the time to lecture teen mothers, if its already got that far, they need help, not a lecture.

morrigen
February 12th, 2004, 11:35 PM
Even with my little guy, at the ripe ld age of 32...I've had people mutter things about "single mothers".....anad when I was pregnant, a total stranger came up to me at the shops and yelled at me...saying things like 'single mother...sl*t...etc"
Funny thing is...I'm not single!
My partner and I have been very much together for years...we even wear matching wedder bands, tho we are not legally married....
The whole single mother hysteria has become so bad that I think unless you are dressed the "right" way, drive the "right" car and own several investment properties, people assume you're a welfare dependant..
Ok, so that's a bit of an exageration, but i think you know what I mean....

mudweed
February 12th, 2004, 11:39 PM
when I was pregnant, a total stranger came up to me at the shops and yelled at me...saying things like 'single mother...sl*t...etc"
Funny thing is...I'm not single!
It must be because you're not out with your male escort, you hussy!

No, seriously, I don't get it. A lot of single mothers do better by their kids than some couples do...

morrigen
February 12th, 2004, 11:42 PM
Funny that...no one was rude when my partner was with me...only when by myself...maybe you have something there :hehehehe:

I think the "single mother/teen mother" has become a bit of a social scapegoat....

Palantari
October 15th, 2005, 09:09 AM
Hiya, well i had my first child when i was young (that was awhile ago...lol i hve 3 now) and i agree there are alot of stereo types towards teenage mothers but you're right there are women of every age who should not be parents...its not the age that makes the maternal abilities its the character of the woman...at 14 some girls are more maternal and more mature than some women at 40. Although there are some at that age that do good to take care of themselves nevermind a child. I think as long as you do your best and your children are happy and you are comfortable with your life, then you shouldn't worry about what anyone else thinks...including some unsupportive family members (it happens). Just get on with it and enjoy your family. All the best ~Palantari

LadyTrinity
October 15th, 2005, 03:01 PM
I kinda know what you mean. I was 20 when I was pregnant. Even though I was not a teen, I was treated like one because people would tell me.. oh goodness! Your not even married! Or, aren't you too young to have a child? Or.. what are you doing having kids? You should travel the world and explore first. :foh:
My cousin just had her baby and she is 24. She has to live with my aunt for a while because she is having alot of troubles and a hard time. No matter what age you are there are up and downs to parenting. I was told last night by my mom on the phone that she is so proud of me because I did my best and was always home with my baby and didnt party it up like some people worry about younger people.
Maybe younger teens should wait before they experience intercourse, but when you have a baby, the best thing is to try your best at being that baby's everything. Its not the teen moms that have babys we should worry about.. its the teens who always abort when they find out they are pregnant are the ones that need a little help :hugz:

Raven Reed
October 15th, 2005, 03:21 PM
I was twenty when my first child was born, but I looked a lot younger. I got some very strange looks and was lectured more than once by people who felt that they had the right to.

I think that parenting is hard, no matter what age you are when you have kids. As long as you know that you are being the best parent you can be, that is all that you can do.

SoulHealer
October 15th, 2005, 03:52 PM
When I was studying nursing I actually did a study on teenage mothers

It was a real eye opener as to not only what they thought but how people treated them and also as to what sort of people they were

Some teenagers may get pregnant for the wrong reasons - but heck so do a lot of older people. It dosn't automatically make them bad mothers

I spent a lot of time with teenager mothers and I am still friends with many of those i met then- its not as easy as a person age as to if they are a good mother or not

Kalika
October 15th, 2005, 08:05 PM
Wow, talk about reviving old threads! :)

FGM, I just want to include, that even though this is old, from everything I've read of yours... you are a great mom! You seem to have escalated yourself above and beyond what most mothers your age would do, and that is very much a reason to be proud.

I understand what everyone else is saying too. I had my son 8 months ago at age 23. When I take him out alone, I get a lot of strange looks and muttered comments. (I look about 17.. which has something to do with it, but I don't know)

One thing that really stands out to me though, is how kind other mothers are. It is the people that *don't* have children with them that make the rude comments.

JadeNSC
October 15th, 2005, 11:48 PM
I understand what everyone else is saying too. I had my son 8 months ago at age 23. When I take him out alone, I get a lot of strange looks and muttered comments. (I look about 17.. which has something to do with it, but I don't know)

I was 23 when I had my son as well (he's now 20 months old). Your post reminded me of when we took my son for his first hair cut at 15 months. The woman looked at me and at one point she said, "You're fifteen right?" I about died laughing and said, "No, I'm 24!" My friends all say I look about 18/19 which I guess is OK. I get the strange looks too sometimes, but I think in my case it's more of "Is she 18 or in her 20s?"

I get nasty looks from people who knew me in high school (we had to move back to my home town for financial reasons, and I hate it). The main problem is that *gasp* we aren't married and my son wasn't planned! This is the worst sin you can commit where I'm from it seems. Everyone around here seem to view sex in such a negative light. Well, I'm still with his father, we live happily together, and my son is happy, very smart (too damn smart for his age if you ask me :lol: ), and well adjusted. His father and I are very much still in love and while we've had some rough times financially, we do not regret how this came about and regard our son as a true blessing.

I think the best any of us can do is just raise our children responsibly and teach them how to be the best humans they can be. And we teach them to ignore what other people think of them and to just follow their hearts. :)

FaerieGothMommy
October 16th, 2005, 01:51 PM
Yes, Kalika... Wow, a very old post being revived :)

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this.

Of course, i've had my baby now. My daughter is now 3, my son is now 15 months old & i am 18!

I just do the best i can, luckily, i haven't gotten much grief at all. The thread was started, not just from my experiences but what i'd seen others go through & what others say about younger mothers.

I think the best thing for it is to ignore the people that disagree with what you're doing, and just do the best you can. :)

obie
October 27th, 2005, 10:25 AM
My motto has always been "F*ck what ppl think of you". You can't go living your life worrying about what others think of you. there will always be ppl who will judge you and who you will judge in turn.

with that being said, i admire you for stepping up and taking responsibility for your child. YOU yourself are taking care of your kid, and not dumping the child on parents and running off and partying somewhere. this in my opinion shows maturity and responsibility on your part.

In my opinion i think you are a brave person to take on the responsibility of taking care of a child so young. I also think you are very mature as well as a very strong woman. I wish you the best.

Malcolm
October 27th, 2005, 11:52 AM
Am I the only one that didn't realize FGM was only 18????

Jesus, guess I should look at peoples profiles.