need need need!! GIMME! NOW!!!

[dr_zeus440]

do you think that the projected "ease of use" "user friendly" "white light" image of magic is causing a free ride mentality? i.e. people expecting magic to solve all their problems and make them, what was it, the bestest cheerleader eva? etc. i ask this because everywhere i see people saying "i need help" or "i need a spell" or "i need a teacher" etc. and im thinking, hang on a second, need isnt exactly the right word, want maybe, crave maybe, like maybe, but not need. what do you think?

[zehava]

do you think that the projected "ease of use" "user friendly" "white light" image of magic is causing a free ride mentality? i.e. people expecting magic to solve all their problems and make them, what was it, the bestest cheerleader eva? etc. i ask this because everywhere i see people saying "i need help" or "i need a spell" or "i need a teacher" etc. and im thinking, hang on a second, need isnt exactly the right word, want maybe, crave maybe, like maybe, but not need. what do you think?

hrmmm... this is kind of a hard question to answer.

i think the 'free ride' mentality is evident everywhere, not just in religion. it seems that people are always wanting the easy way out (i think we've probably all been guilty of it at one time or another), religious or not ;)

-z

[Sylvan]

I think it's something that happens to many when they are new to the Path. After a bit, they see that they aren't going to get everything handed to them on a silver platter and they either take off or settle down and get serious.

As to "need" vs "want"/"crave"/whatever... Well... You're right. Most people don't *NEED* anything...

[Rick]

I said "NO" just because it was the only response that allowed me to call someone "freak"... :hehehehe:

[MoonFaerie]

I voted for some cases.

I agree with Zehava. It happens in everything, not just religion.

Also I agree with Kurgarra. Some people take interest into the path because they do believe it is a quick fix. Others take it more seriously right off the bat. Those that didn't, sink or swim. :)

~ MoonFaerie

[samiaminsane]

Most everyone seems to be looking for the easiest, fastest way to do everything.......patience has become a precious virtue........... I'm not completely immune to that because im looking for another job and am frustrated with how 'long' it's taking.

[LittleRhiannon]

I agree, for the most part. As I've said before, my religion and my practice of witchcraft are almost always completely seperate.

I think there is nothing inherently 'wrong' in useing magic for things you don't need. I think it's a little silly to do magic for every little thing you want, and expect the magic to do all the work.

Like, I get really really bad miraines, and medicine doesn't help. I could sleep it off, or I could do I simple healing spell, which ususally helps loads. I didn't NEED to, but it made things easier and less painful.

Of course, doing spells to get on the cheerleading squad or something like that, and then not practicing isn't going to do ANYTHING so it's hardly even useing magic. But if you were to say, do a spell that will help you try-out to the best of your ability, then practice for the rest of the remaining time, thats still not need, but it's not exactly a 'free ride'

[aftershocked]

I voted in some cases. Personally, I think that in America, we as a culture are starting to expect things to be instanteous- Fast food, online banking, speed dating. Nothing's worth taking the time to earn anymore. I include myself as this, simply because I've grown up with it and don't know from experience another way of living. I'm hoping to remedy that in the future.

As for religion, I see this trend in some people- mostly the people who agree with the 'Ordination for $5! One easy step!' web sites, rather than properly worshipping and serving the Gods. Some new pagans believe that lighting candles and muttering a few words from a book will make them thinner, prettier, more popular et all. And for some, maybe this works. But in my experience, when I tried this I got the cosmic 2"x4" from my God for not realizing that He meant for me to have to work for it.

I don't remember where I saw it, but it's perhaps the truest religious thing I've seen in a while. Someone on here posted about one of their friends who was having a perticularly hard time with a boyfriend. The person asked their friend why they didn't ask the Gods for help, and the friend responded:'Why should I? It's my problem.' I remind myself of that when I think about asking Them for something. :graduate:

[Flick]

I see it more in the young folk than anyone else. Not even magicly related either. Not to offend the contributing members, but I see a lot of teenagers in our area that are using it as a way to standout and therefore get attention. Dont get me wrong. Many of the people involved and most of the younger crowd are completely legit. Just that some use it as their ticket for acceptance or, on the other side of the coin, attention through rejection. I see that SOME kids find it makes the unique or "non-conformists" and therefore are using it for what it generates. Most dont even believe what they are saying.
Dont get me wrong. I feel this group is very well-centered and serious. But some use it for the entirely wrong purposes.
My two cents,
Flick

p.s.
If someone says, "A penny for your thoughts and you give your 2 cents worth...what happens to the other penny?

[Cerulean]

dookie,

I can call you dookie, can't I? I think that those people are often just venting about their problems. Sometimes they are looking for attention. Somehow, we have to do this indirectly. There's a lot of young people here and I'd rather they bring their problems here than not. So, it's not that bad, instead of looking for quick fixes, they want attention and catharsis.

[Flick]

Dookie! :hehehehe:
You're pretty funny. :wtf: :stooges: :fishsmack :woot: :crazyman: :falloffch :weirdsmil :yourock: :hahugh: :rollingla
Flick

[LittleRhiannon]

I see it more in the young folk than anyone else. Not even magicly related either. Not to offend the contributing members, but I see a lot of teenagers in our area that are using it as a way to standout and therefore get attention. Dont get me wrong. Many of the people involved and most of the younger crowd are completely legit. Just that some use it as their ticket for acceptance or, on the other side of the coin, attention through rejection. I see that SOME kids find it makes the unique or "non-conformists" and therefore are using it for what it generates. Most dont even believe what they are saying.
Dont get me wrong. I feel this group is very well-centered and serious. But some use it for the entirely wrong purposes.
My two cents,
Flick

p.s.
If someone says, "A penny for your thoughts and you give your 2 cents worth...what happens to the other penny?

Heh even most of my good friends don't know I'm a witch or pagan! Though when they find out, they aren't usually suprised. :hehehehe:

[Keith Dragon]

They are also balancing one extreme with another. The priest daughter that becomes a hooker. Tha Stoner that becomes born again Christian. The Soul seeks balance, and the extremes are sometimes seen as a quick way to do that. This path is mostly done through revenge though.

Keith Dragon

[Keith Dragon]

I think that the "Ease" of magic is an illusion. It by no means is an Easy path, especially when dealing with those that do not understand it. It take a stong will to follow this path. It take dedication, commitment, devotion, concentration, and the willingness to open your mind. These are not easy things for most people. It is taking rresponsibility for your own soul. It's the only paths that truly give you the tools to save yourself, but it is more than just casting a spell. If it were easy, Magic would rule the mainstream world.

I've found this path continues myself to look deeper and deeper into myself, and stripping what I don't like to see away, and re-creating myself. Most people when the look deep into themselves run scared of their own demons.

Those that think it is easy, soon learn otherwise.

Keith Dragon

[Druchii]

Many young people want to belive in something, and in turn are willing to believe in whatever will give them the quickest cure, result, or stimulation. If that's not the case they quickly tire, and leave off to find other outlets for their fickleness. I do not claim to know much anything about Wicca, but I know when I see people that want to draw attention to themsleves use any medium available at their disposal to acheive an end. College and high school are perfect ensemble areas for experimentation and risk taking. They can also be areas of life ripe with disjuncture, confusion, and just trying to find oneself. They were for me, but I found my outlet in books and art. Others as I said earlier used what was more readily accessable, ( shock rock like music, odd piercings, dressing in all black, etc. ). For a lot of them it is only a phase.

[Mithrea]

I said "NO" just because it was the only response that allowed me to call someone "freak"... :hehehehe:

:rotfl:

[DebLipp]

It's not new, but it's shifting more into Paganism. Twenty years ago, the "wishcraft" crowd (I wish it, I get it, TA DA!) were all New Agers, and Paganism, especially Wicca, was a lot more hardcore. Naturally, the two movements have had more and more overlap over the years, and the white light mentality is no longer considered a separate thing from Paganism.

[Romani Vixen]

Silver Platter anyone? I think that it's some of the newer generations. They think that the world owes them. I find this one of the most annoying things... specially sence my exroommate pulled this crap after we supported him for 2 mos. Sorry.... hit a button....

[Fairywolf]

I said "NO" just because it was the only response that allowed me to call someone "freak"... :hehehehe:
Bad Rick!!!!

I think that everyone at some point in time wants everything handed to them. Myself included. I have also realized that at some point I NEED to do it myself that way I know what I am doing and what I am talking about. Though after 4+ years I am still learning and growing. And once in a blue moon I wish someone would hand me all the knowlege I seek and be done with it but since that is impossiable................

[zakzekezedd]

I think that an awful lot of people initially get attracted to Wicca or paganism with the idea that they are going to work all these nifty spells to make their lives "perfect". Some of these folks may discover the beauty of the spirtiual path that Wicca or paganism embraces, but many will give up and move on looking for the next "quick fix".

[nomadicdragon]

I think that the free ride mentality is inherent in American society, probably in other countries as well. But it's more blatant here in the US. I don't think it's something that is restricted to the Pagan "world." And I wish I could say it was a generation thing, but it's funny. I seem to recently run into more and more people that want something for nothing. They want to be able to snap there fingers and have everything they want given to them. It ticks me off because I work hard and struggle to get what I want and need. (wait.. stop. reverse the order of that) :hehehe:

:rant: :smoke:

[Flar's Freyja]

do you think that the projected "ease of use" "user friendly" "white light" image of magic is causing a free ride mentality? i.e. people expecting magic to solve all their problems and make them, what was it, the bestest cheerleader eva? etc. i ask this because everywhere i see people saying "i need help" or "i need a spell" or "i need a teacher" etc. and im thinking, hang on a second, need isnt exactly the right word, want maybe, crave maybe, like maybe, but not need. what do you think?

I think that some new people with little experience do expect magic to provide instant gratification. It takes a while to learn that our needs are not fulfilled immediately - although sometimes they are - and that the outcome may come about in a way that we do not expect. For instance, a request for love may be answered by losing one's job - because we may meet our soulmate at the job that replaces it.

There is a difference between wants and needs, but that is up to the individual. One could actually need to be the best cheerleader to increase low self-esteem or receive a college scholarship.

If one is asking for a new car, then they should also be asking for a raise to pay for the new car and not expect it to magically appear. Except in the case of a friend of mine who wanted to pay off his car and got into an accident which totaled it.......or the friend that asked that everything she no longer needed in her life to be removed and her house burned down - be careful what you ask for!

[Aidron]

Freyja made very good points, which I myself was going to make.

However, let's look at another aspect. Who do you see most often asking for spells? I know, I know, most deem them newbies, or wannabes (which I consider rude, although some people deserve the label).

In either case, these people are not very experienced, and as such I seriously doubt they have the necessary skill and practice experience can teach you of what works with what, and how to do all the things that make up an effective magical working that the more advanced practioners often never realize were at one time complex for them. Face it, it's like when you're an adult, you sometimes forget what it is like to be a kid or teenager and understand what they are going through. It's only human nature.

[nomadicdragon]

Freyja made very good points, which I myself was going to make.

However, let's look at another aspect. Who do you see most often asking for spells? I know, I know, most deem them newbies, or wannabes (which I consider rude, although some people deserve the label).

In either case, these people are not very experienced, and as such I seriously doubt they have the necessary skill and practice experience can teach you of what works with what, and how to do all the things that make up an effective magical working that the more advanced practioners often never realize were at one time complex for them. Face it, it's like when you're an adult, you sometimes forget what it is like to be a kid or teenager and understand what they are going through. It's only human nature.

I agree. (oh god not again.) lol. That's why I think that it is something that is inherent in American society, not merely in the pagan world. There is a lovely generation that has hada e verything handed to them on a platter, and if they have not they have seen others and feel it is owed them. I think the problem is that we are generalizing with the pagan world. In every part of societies around the world, there is the air of gimme gimme inherent within.

[Branwyn]

I think the problem is that we are generalizing with the pagan world. In every part of societies around the world, there is the air of gimme gimme inherent within.

When I was a christian, I used to rant about the "gumball christians". These people were usually in "charismatic, evangelical, gift-believing" churches. They were being taught, "Ask and you shall recieve, that your joy may be full." They were being taught instant gratification. If you prayed in the proper way (a ritualistic formula that included using the 'name of Jesus' about 20 times), and you BELIEVED, then God would HAVE to give you what you wanted.

I called it 'gumball christianity' because it was (in my mind) much the same as taking a quarter, plunking it into a gumball machine, and getting the gum.

That type of attitude, to my way of thinking, created a scapegoat...in thier god! If you prayed right, and had enough faith (and in the Bible it says you only need faith the size of a mustard seed, so ANYBODY could have enough faith), God had to do it for you. So, you didn't get that job you prayed so hard for? It couldn't be that there were 50 people who were better qualified for the job than you were. No sirree. It was obvious that God had something else (usually thought of to be better) for you planned. You got sick, and didn't get healed instantly when prayed for? Well, either the person who laid hands on you didn't have enough faith, or "the debbil's got a hold of you"! Either way, it's not your fault, you are completely blameless, and you can continue to let others handle whatever the situation is.

I see a lot of people who come into paganism from christianity who seem to have that idea. Spells are just prayers (I've heard people tell me), and so the gods should answer as the christian god was supposed to do.

One of the things that first attracted me to paganism, when I was searching, was the fact that all the pagans I talked to believed in personal responsibility, and dealing with the consequences of their actions. Yes, somebody might cast a spell for a job, but they also didn't blame thier god if or when they didn't get it. They just kept putting in applications other places. Life wasn't 'out to get them'.

In the past few years, it seems to be different. New people coming in don't even want to take the 30 seconds it takes to do a Google search for "love spells", and instead spam boards with "i need a luv spel 4 my grrrrrrlfrend", and when they don't get the results they want, respond (5 minutes later) with, "U all r sooooo MEAN!!!"

Ooops, looks like I've just added a rant to this thread! :rant: Guess it's been wanting to come out for a long time! The point I was trying to make is that it's not only in paganism, this IWWIWWIWI disease (IWWIWWIWI=I Want What I Want, When I Want It). It's everywhere, unfortunately.

Branwyn,
one of the "meanie pooh pooh heads" on the AOL pagan boards

[nomadicdragon]

I think the difference between the pagan world and the christian world, is that in the christian world, you pray and god is supposed to make everything ok and if it's not ok, you can blame some imaginary sin or the devil. In the pagan world, you do your best, cast a spell for assistance and you keep working. There is no ok or not ok, there is just what you can do that is your best and nothing after that.

[Dextra]

I think that some new people with little experience do expect magic to provide instant gratification. It takes a while to learn that our needs are not fulfilled immediately - although sometimes they are - and that the outcome may come about in a way that we do not expect. For instance, a request for love may be answered by losing one's job - because we may meet our soulmate at the job that replaces it.

There is a difference between wants and needs, but that is up to the individual. One could actually need to be the best cheerleader to increase low self-esteem or receive a college scholarship.

If one is asking for a new car, then they should also be asking for a raise to pay for the new car and not expect it to magically appear. Except in the case of a friend of mine who wanted to pay off his car and got into an accident which totaled it.......or the friend that asked that everything she no longer needed in her life to be removed and her house burned down - be careful what you ask for!

Being careful what you ask for is always a good policy. Taking the time to do something about a troubling situation through mundane means first is always the best way to go about things. I know of so many people that if a difficult situation arises, the first thing they do is head for the altar. The universe recognizes when a situation needs rectifying, and will be there when you need magick to help you out.

Also, a lot of people aren't very careful about HOW they ask for help. Like Freya said, if one is asking for a new car, they should specify how the funds for the car should come about, like asking for a pay raise. I think that's where 90% of most magickal blunders occur. You can't just sling energy around willy-nilly. You have to tell it where to go and what to do.

[fireswimmer]

I There is a lovely generation that has hada e verything handed to them on a platter, and if they have not they have seen others and feel it is owed them. I think the problem is that we are generalizing with the pagan world. In every part of societies around the world, there is the air of gimme gimme inherent within.

I think that there is some of the gimme attitude but I am nto sure that it is entirely the younger ones. I am 28 and have been practicing for 10 years. I am surprised by some of the people who are ten years older than me who are looking for the easy way. I think that the young ones are likely to post a message asking for a spell whereas the older ones are more likely to read a book in hopes of finding the right spell. Both are looking for a quick fix.

I am not sure about the lovely generation that has had everything handed to them. One thing that I have seen wuite a bit of is material things replacing time. When the newest pair of sneakers is handed over instead of being watched at a game, or play... different values are taught. There is a very high price to be paid for being given so much.

Fireswimmer

[Ben Trismegistus]

Yes, in many cases. I call it "insta-Wicca" or "insta-Witchcraft" (I think Rain Gnosis coined those terms). I suspect that it comes from the large number of DIY Witchcraft books out there, containing a bunch of spells to give you what you want right now. Ugh.

[Rockprincess]

If the question is

do you think that the projected "ease of use" "user friendly" "white light" image of magic is causing a free ride mentality? i.e. people expecting magic to solve all their problems and make them, what was it, the bestest cheerleader eva?
Then I think the answers given above are very succint.

However, I see this question:

everywhere i see people saying "i need help" or "i need a spell" or "i need a teacher" etc. and im thinking, hang on a second, need isnt exactly the right word, want maybe, crave maybe, like maybe, but not need. what do you think?
as being something else - a matter of semantics. In our materially driven, instant gratification society, especially for the majority who have more than enough to fulfill their actual bodily needs, the disctinction between the words want and need has become blurred. I daresay that for many younger people (my 25-35 year old generation included), there is NO disctintion in connotation in their subconscious...because they have never felt "need". So many people would phrase a request "I need a spell" when they mean "I want a spell", without differentiating the connotation.

[Toriach]

The problem that I had at first was that I did get things much too easily, but it was always what I thought I wanted rather than what I really wanted. It was only through study, practice and self discipline that I learned how to work Magic for what I truly needed and wanted. Also I learned that my Magic worked best when I took mundane steps as well as Magical ones to get what I desired.

[LadyTrinity]

Magic is not a free ride. Everyone posses the ability to do magic. It's not really the materials involved within a spell its the belief in your self that makes it work. The materials merely guide ones self. Most people do not realize that they posses the ability to make things happen or to make magical changes in their lives. The world would probably be a better place if most people were as open minded as we are :thumbsup:
Magic is a beautiful talent that is waiting to be unleashed by most!

[blueangel]

I didn't understand what you meant when I first read the poll but now i understand. I agree that some people seem to think that doing spells is something that is going to solve all their problems and I think it's sad because there is so much more to paganism.

[CzechWoods]

do you think that the projected "ease of use" "user friendly" "white light" image of magic is causing a free ride mentality? i.e. people expecting magic to solve all their problems and make them, what was it, the bestest cheerleader eva? etc. i ask this because everywhere i see people saying "i need help" or "i need a spell" or "i need a teacher" etc. and im thinking, hang on a second, need isnt exactly the right word, want maybe, crave maybe, like maybe, but not need. what do you think?

what most people dont lik to realize is that if they get a teacher, spell or magical help, or consulting... you name it, this is not meaning they can lay back. it only means that when they work hard, there will not be the same kind of resistance to their efforts. but effort is the key.

many people understand this concept, but most of the people who desperately insist of needing spells or especially teachers, hope those teachers will make everything be good, while that - of course - is an illusion, and finding out what a teacher does to your life in fact, often than, is a very painful awakening

[mtpathy]

do you think that the projected "ease of use" "user friendly" "white light" image of magic is causing a free ride mentality? i.e. people expecting magic to solve all their problems and make them, what was it, the bestest cheerleader eva? etc. i ask this because everywhere i see people saying "i need help" or "i need a spell" or "i need a teacher" etc. and im thinking, hang on a second, need isnt exactly the right word, want maybe, crave maybe, like maybe, but not need. what do you think?

i think that many that walk around saying that they want or need a teacher
are the same ones who wouldn't do the things that a genuine teacher asked
of them to begin with.
there are teachers who teach by being a friend of the students,these
teachers imo tend to be too linent,teach by words,and let the student get
away with not being serious in there studies,it is by this teachers point of
view the students responsability to learn by consistent practice,and its the
students responsability to be the self starter,and self motivator.
there are also teachers who teach by putting there student in situations
where they have to learn magick,by being attacked with it,pesterd with it,
or teaching the student one ability that they excell within,then using that one
ability to teach them many lessons.and all the teacher does is give them no
more then the bare basics and let the student either sink or swim.
either way if the wrong teacher is with the wrong student,no one learns
anything,and everyone involved looks foolish.
salutations

[debnmike]

The first impression I got from this poll/thread was that the "free ride" concept was pertaining to casting a spell and expecting everything to resolve itself.

I don't view magick that way. For magick to work, you have to use a little "elbow grease" as it were. If you are trying to get a job, a spell alone won't do the trick, unless you are actively pursuing your wish i.e. sending out resumes, contacting potential employers, etc.

I see some folks who sign up for accounts and the first thing they post is "how can I do a spell for......?" Those are usually kids (and no offense to the younger set here) who have come to the conclusion that "hey! I don't actually have to do anything, I can just burn some incense, say a few words and I'll be rich/get a boyfriend/be popular/whatever!"

Magick is all about intent, and in my opinion, dangerous in the wrong hands. But, then again, for magick to truly work, it has to be used in conjunction with the mundane. After all, if casting one spell would bring a windfall, we'd all be millionaires, right? :hahugh:

[Xander67]

I think there is a new crop of teachers who are exploiting the old ways for a profit.. Take a look at the books.. the new ones.. if you place them side by side they are all just copies of the same info.. only re-worded to protect them from being sued by the people they are copying from..

I do think there is a danger of presenting magic in such a simple "light" version because they arent adressing the fundamentals.. they arent telling you that the forces you are working with can be very powerful and can bite you in the ass if you are not carefull.. and they are filling the kids minds with false hopes in something other than themselves...

show me a book that tells a kid that the power that lies dormant deep within thier psyche, and then teaches them the proper ethics about HARD WORK
PRACTICE THIER SKILLS
if you are a cheerleader... PRACTICE your cheers!
dont just light a few candles, meditate and do a white light spell and expect it to "MAgically" manefest results...
you have to do the work... there is where the real magic is.. the real magic is inside your actions.. spells and enchantment help to the extent that the person's will is strong enough...

If you own a buisness... do your spells for attracting new buisness.. but dont just sit on your ass and wait for the emails to come in... you have to WORK... GET OUT AND SHARE YOUR PRODUCT OR SERVICE...

please forgive me for ranting, but you struck a nerve... I am saddened, deeply saddened and disturbed by the trend I am seeing today...
They are leaving out the most important element to success in magic..
YOU!

THey unknowingly, or maybe knowingly, are encourageing the kids and new comers to put thier faith in the spell itself or the props...:rant:

[Xander67]

Magick is all about intent, and in my opinion, dangerous in the wrong hands. But, then again, for magick to truly work, it has to be used in conjunction with the mundane. After all, if casting one spell would bring a windfall, we'd all be millionaires, right? :hahugh:

only if you have your money in the stocks that are booming during the windfall:lol: :hahugh:

[Meadhbh]

I think it depends on the person in question. Any time you do something not just magic your going to find people with that kind of attitude. They think that they should have what they want when ever they want it. People like that are always going to be in quick and flashy no matter what it is.