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Alex
July 22nd, 2001, 06:31 AM
Wait til you see what they are up to this time:

http://cultureandfamily.org/report/2001-07-18/m_mists-avalon.shtml

These meshugana Goyem chafe my hide!

Since when is a positive depiction of one religion an assault on another?

B*B*

Alex

Danustouch
July 22nd, 2001, 10:13 AM
I'm not going to vote in this poll, because it seems to be a blanket statement type thing.

But...as for the article,....just more propaganda aimed toward furthering misunderstandings of our faith. Bummer.

rantnraven
July 22nd, 2001, 10:25 AM
I refuse to vote here as well. There are many Christians on this board and, I will not consider them less then my friends. Yes, this is a Pagan community but, it has members with very open hearts and many different paths.

One article will not give me cause to close my heart to those who have chosen there path. It is theirs and I will not discredit them for it.

Blessings to all that are here regardless of their paths.

This Poll seems to focus on hate. That, to me, is intolerable.

Your Brother in spirit,
RnR

Socharis
July 22nd, 2001, 10:27 AM
I also refuse to vote.

Twig
July 22nd, 2001, 10:32 AM
Because I belive in...
Peace,
Twig
:elf:

Wyrdsister
July 22nd, 2001, 12:03 PM
Here's a *wave* from the 5th non-voter.

Don't worry, Alex, we are not ganging up on you!! *HUG* But over time MysticWicks has worked very hard on steering away from "blanket statements" having to do with any and every group, including Christians. Trust me, that's not always easy. 8O Yet we want to stay a welcoming community so we try our best to be just that: welcoming.

I did read the article you referenced, and I believe I've read it before (didn't someone post the entire article in this forum? don't remember). I agree with you that this was definitely a biased, slanted article against paganism and TNT!

originally posted by Alex
Since when is a positive depiction of one religion an assault on another? Amen, brother! ;) (perhaps that's not the best choice of words? *just teasing!* :D :D) I completely agree with you on this point. It's too bad so many people feel threatened when a different point of view is expressed.

Wyrdsister

Kaylara
July 22nd, 2001, 12:09 PM
Merry Meet Alex. I am Kaylara, one of the co-moderators of this forum.

Since you are so new, I will let you slide on this one. We have members in this community of all faiths. There will be no attacking of another's path on this site. Please refrain from further posts of this nature.

*End Moderator Mode*


Oh BTW, I personally refuse to vote as well.

Blessings
Kaylara

ladyrowan
July 22nd, 2001, 12:13 PM
Ditto to the previous posts.

I just find it so sad that we can't all accept that we're all diifferent, with different beliefs. Not better or worse, just different.

I think there is quite a big difference in this between USA and UK;
I've found from a couple of chat rooms that SOME christians in america are more (searching for a tactful way of putting this!)
'passionate' in their belief that their way is the ONLY way, and the rest of us will burn in hell. I will also say that a lot of them have been very nice.
I personally have never come across such strong views at home.
Of course, I've had Christians, J.W's and Mormons trying to convert me, (the latter 2 groups now avoid knocking on my door like we carry the plague!) and 2 of the Christians who were particularly close friends let me down VERY badly, but then again, so have some Pagans.
I have Sikh, Hindu, Moslem, Cree, Catholic and Atheist friends, and while we discuss our beliefs, there is never an arguement about who is right or wrong, just a genuine interest in the others beliefs.
I think it such a shame that everyone can't be as tolerant, and as Twig says, live in peace.

BB to EVERYONE on this site

Spirahl
July 22nd, 2001, 12:42 PM
Personally, I have come under attack by Christians who have tried to do real harm to myself, my husband, and scarier...his children.
I know we want to try and uphold ideals, I do understand why people have not voted and I support that. (Haven't voted either).
But I also think it's naive to pretend that this type of hate does not exist.
Really, I understand the frustration that leads to the type of poll/post above, but we have to direct that energy elsewhere for all our sakes. Our hate returned... gives others an excuse for their views to become actions.
To be fair, I've also come under attack by people who aren't Christians. I think destructive people are found in every group, they just find in certain interpretations of dogma, an excuse or justification, and so hide behind it.

gunner
July 22nd, 2001, 12:46 PM
alex, i have to agree with kaylara, these over broad generalizations are not what this community is about. while this is a pagan community we do have christian friends and members, we respect them and they us. agree or disagree with anyone you wish but do it courteously please.

end moderator mode

that said and speaking for myself now do not think you can't post just do it with good will.

Lucidia
July 22nd, 2001, 01:05 PM
First of all, I'm gonna play devils advocate for a moment...

Now i didn't vote, because there wasn't an option that i agreed with.

But, if i just walked into a pagan forum, i MIGHT get the initial impression that there were other people that disliked non-pagan people that constantly come down on pagan beliefs.

However, walking to the other side of the fence for the moment...

This isn't the place to flame people for their beliefs if they dont' agree with yours

that is being just as bad as the christians that P'd you off in the first place.


...but....

Welcome to MysticWicks. There are many people here who know how it feels to be discriminated against because of their beliefs and lifestlye. There are also people here, that may have beliefs that differ from yorus, friends and family that may be christian or may even be christian themselves.

This is not a place for anger, or hate, or persecution. There is no need for a reversal of the witchhunts to target those who do not agree with us.


This IS a place to discuss injustice when it rears it's ugly head. It's a place for support, and most importantly, it's a place of education. It's a free speech forum, but only when you choose the freedom that is earned with RESPECT.

I will not judge you by this post, I do not know you personally, but I can be objective, and have a certain amount of understanding of where you are coming from.

Based on what you will learn about the people here in the next few days or even minutes you are here, I hope that you choose to stay, but leave you anger behind you.

Although life is hard when you choose to walk the path less taken, sometimes it makes all the difference when you just smile and walk on past the negativity that is thrown at you.


Once again, welcome to MysticWicks, and I hope that you learn from your time and conversation here.

Merrie
July 22nd, 2001, 01:43 PM
I really think Lucidia said it all.
I didn't vote either.

silvrsnstr
July 22nd, 2001, 01:59 PM
I know that you may feel angry towards Christians, but I think you need to direct your anger in other ways. This very poll is discriminating towards them, and wrong.Do they make polls like this on their website? Then pity them, don't act like them.
End Citazen mode.
Try to think before you post next time.

rantnraven
July 22nd, 2001, 02:02 PM
Just wanted to say that no one is trying to bust your chops over this. We are community of mixed beliefs and want to get along.

Welcome to the porch. Please pull up a chair thingy and we will talk awile.

I will make this suggestion, Delete this post and start a new one to introduce yourself. I think you will be surprised at how many warm welcomes you receive.

Smiles and blessings to you, Friend,
RnR

eaglewolf
July 22nd, 2001, 02:15 PM
Well, I voted... but I did so because most of you didn't...

...call me a rebelious social outcast going against the grain simply because there is nothing better to do until my baseball game comes on in a few minutes...

...er, I guess I could be cleaning house, but who in their right mind would want to do that?

~ew

Mariposa De La Luna
July 22nd, 2001, 02:54 PM
I abstain also.


Tolerance has to start somewhere. If we can't show it to them, then how can we expect it back?

MistOfTheSea86
July 22nd, 2001, 04:33 PM
I feel that you need to tell more about why you dislike them, instead of just saying that you do. It makes us think that your opinions are not warranted, and we will be angry. I think everyone here has or has had a problem or two with Christians, but we hardly let ourselves be lead by those opinions, we try to understand more before attacking. If you could tell us why you are so intolerant of them pherhaps we can help you become more tolerant;) That is why we are hear. To listen, to understand. But most of all to help those who need helping.:)

EasternPriest
July 22nd, 2001, 05:44 PM
No vote. No comment. Welcome and Blessings Alex.

mol
July 22nd, 2001, 06:15 PM
I really thought twice about adding to this thread....because in adding I am bringing the discussion back to the top of the forum.

I can understand how people may have been hurt by another set of people. But, what this was based on is actually spreading that hurt. What does that accomplish?

Anyway, Alex, welcome to this Community...but take heed now that this place is not just for Pagans. Although, most of us are. This place is about sharing and learning. Helping and giving. But, most of all, its about acceptance. We are indivduals here....but we are also one community.

gunner
July 22nd, 2001, 06:15 PM
i'd say our good padre has given alex "te absolvo" and we can pass over his early mistake and welcome him as several already have. so..., welcome aboard alex.

rantnraven
July 22nd, 2001, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by mol
This place is about sharing and learning. Helping and giving. But, most of all, its about acceptance. We are indivduals here....but we are also one community.

By the Goddess, or God, "witch-ever"
RnR

clef0628
July 22nd, 2001, 08:14 PM
I chose the last choice. I got that way back in high school. People use to tell me I'd go to Hell for not believing in God. So, I'd say I'll go to Hell, fine with me. I was ok with that. It got them quiet real fast. But, I have to say I have many Christian friends and Family and I love them all. As long as, I can believe my way and they can believe their way, and if your nice to people they are gerenally nice to you.

bloodstone20
July 22nd, 2001, 08:25 PM
Welcome. YOu there?

rantnraven
July 22nd, 2001, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by bloodstone20
Welcome. YOu there?

I fear that Alex was hit pretty hard and will not be returning. We have all talked of tolerance. Perhaps now we shall all begin to practice it. I am at fault here and apologize.

A humbled Rant,
RnR

Alex
July 23rd, 2001, 07:45 AM
uhhh, I'd delete it, but I don't see how to do it.

Wyrdsister
July 23rd, 2001, 08:47 AM
Hello Alex! Glad you're still here!! :) :)

If you'd like to delete the thread, you can ask one of this forum's moderators (gunner, Kaylara, Semele, sherry), or mol the Site God (ie creator of Mysticwicks) to remove the thread. You can PM (private message) them, or just wait until they review this thread and see your desire to have it deleted.

Again, Welcome to Mysticwicks! I guess you got a crash course in community conduct, but I do hope you choose to stay and be an active part of the community! :D

Wyrdsister

Merrie
July 23rd, 2001, 10:33 AM
I guess you didn't get the warmest of welcomes, eh, Alex? Well, have a glass of lemonade with the rest of the crew, and I propose a toast. Here's to starting over, meeting new people, and learning something from every person and situation we find ourselves dealing with.

Cheers!

PS--Hey, Alex, Maybe you'll meet a christian or two here that doesn't fit that description. It's not totally, unheard of, Ya know. Christians, are people, too, and we're all the same in the eyes of You-Know-Who. By any name.

gunner
July 23rd, 2001, 11:04 AM
first, i accept alex's apology, we all screw the pooch once in a while, even me, as for deleting the thread, we can do that but i'd like to hear other thoughts on that, there have been some good comments here and perhaps a needed reminder for us all. what say you?

rantnraven
July 23rd, 2001, 12:09 PM
No need to delete it. Just thought that our new friend would rather intro himself in a diferent thread.

Leave it as it is, I say. No harm, no foul.

RnR

bloodstone20
July 23rd, 2001, 03:56 PM
That was over the line ... MW is no the place for you if you hate on ppl. Haters gonna hate, but do it in your head. Please.

Incendia
July 23rd, 2001, 06:03 PM
I think the I hate them was me....I mean't to click on #2...Sorry to anyone who was hurt or offended by my mistake :(

rantnraven
July 23rd, 2001, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by amicus
I think the I hate them was me....I mean't to click on #2...Sorry to anyone who was hurt or offended by my mistake :(

If you hit it then, oh happy day. no one knows who clicked what. Have a Cappiccino(sp?) or some lemonade.

Be happy and blessings,
RnR

Incendia
July 23rd, 2001, 07:27 PM
Thanks R'n'R! I think it might have been me 'cause I remember thinking that I hadn't noticed that someone had voted for number one before. Then after I voted...the poll results re-appeared and there was one for #1. Someone could have voted at the same time...but who knows...anyhow...I think I'll have a glass of that lemonade, it's certainly hot enought today!
Thanx,
Amicus

Semele
July 25th, 2001, 02:03 PM
Alex,
Welcome to the family. Sorry if everyone jumped at ya all at once. We are just a very protective group. Do you want the post deleted or not? It is entirely up to you as it is your thread. Just let us know.

Happydog
July 27th, 2001, 12:20 PM
What was so awful about his question?

I think, if we were honest with ourselves, all of us would have to admit that at times, yes, we are fed up with some Christians. I live in the Bible Belt, where fundamentalist Christians are quite active, quite intolerant, and very loud about it. It's hard not to get fed up with them, especially when they don't conduct themselves in a very helpful manner. I could give specific examples, but I will refrain.

Admitting that one is sometimes very annoyed with the way that some Christians conduct themselves is not a crime, and it doesn't mean you're intolerant. It means that you're HUMAN.

I don't think we need to serve the God of Political Correctness to such an extent that we have to filter our emotions out. I also think it seems a bit, can I say self-righteous, to say "I refuse to vote, for I am not intolerant of anyone; I just sit up here on my high-and-mighty throne, completely pure and free of controversy, never annoying anyone."

Folks, there are things in this world that should not be tolerated. Child abuse, rape, and murder come to mind as very obvious examples. I used this example in another thread but I'll use it again; if someone came on here and started posting about their extensive child porn collection and how much he enjoys beating his wife, would tolerance be called for?

If you try to go through life "tolerating" everything, there are people who will quite merrily do you harm in their pursuit of their own satisfaction. The phrase is "AN IT HARM NONE, do as thou wilt," but that "harm none" part is important. If someone IS doing harm you don't have to tolerate it. And you shouldn't. Turning the other cheek is a Christian doctrine, and most of us here are not Christians.

I am not saying that people should pick fights, but on the other hand, I don't think we need to throw our good judgment out the window for the sake of political correctness or fear of offending someone.

Myst
July 27th, 2001, 12:25 PM
You know what? Sometimes you get frustrated with other Pagans too, or Hindus, or Jewish people, or Atheists, or Agnostics... you know why? Because they're all humans, no more, no less, and for you to say Christians bug you is the same as someone saying that Pagans are evil. It is a broad generalization, it is not needed, and it offends some of the Christians who visit these forums as well as myself.

There is a big difference between being a little politically incorrect and saying you hate all Christians because some have been rude to you. The wording used in the poll was hate, not "dislike", but HATE, and hate is not a good thing to feel about anyone.

There is a HUGE difference between someone telling you you're going to hell and abuse, rape, or murder, HUGE. I don't think the subjects are even comparable.

But, the subject has been brought up, dealt with, and I had thought died awhile ago. Not trying to attack you at all, just think the subject has been beat to death already.

bloodstone20
July 27th, 2001, 01:09 PM
I agree with you completely. It seems to me that you often state such things, and are attacked for them. Well I say, good job, and thanks for stating your opinion.

Originally posted by WillowRaven
You know what? Sometimes you get frustrated with other Pagans too, or Hindus, or Jewish people, or Atheists, or Agnostics... you know why? Because they're all humans, no more, no less, and for you to say Christians bug you is the same as someone saying that Pagans are evil. It is a broad generalization, it is not needed, and it offends some of the Christians who visit these forums as well as myself.

There is a big difference between being a little politically incorrect and saying you hate all Christians because some have been rude to you. The wording used in the poll was hate, not "dislike", but HATE, and hate is not a good thing to feel about anyone.

There is a HUGE difference between someone telling you you're going to hell and abuse, rape, or murder, HUGE. I don't think the subjects are even comparable.

But, the subject has been brought up, dealt with, and I had thought died awhile ago. Not trying to attack you at all, just think the subject has been beat to death already.

Happydog
July 27th, 2001, 01:39 PM
Ooops...I should have looked at the dates of the posts before getting into the discussion. Sorry if I brought up anything I shouldn't have.

Semele
July 27th, 2001, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Happydog
Ooops...I should have looked at the dates of the posts before getting into the discussion. Sorry if I brought up anything I shouldn't have.

Not a problem...that is why we never prune the site...newer members have just as much right to read the old posts and possibly learn from them. I don't think anyone was trying to sound high and mighty...just being protective of our Christian members. We simply can't generalise...thats like saying all blonds are dumb or all blue eyed people are retarded...see my point?

MystyPines
July 30th, 2001, 04:51 PM
For those of you who missed the "The Mists of Avalon" which aired on July 15/16 on TNT, it will be airing tonight (7/30) (I believe Part 1 and Part 2) starting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time and going until midnight. Enjoy! I can't wait to see it!

Bright Blessings!

Happydog
July 30th, 2001, 05:07 PM
I loved that movie, no question. It couldn't cover everything that was in the book, but as far as putting out a positive view of priestesses and earth religions, you couldn't do much better. The image of Anjelica Huston, tall and stately and beautiful, riding that horse and instructing little Morgaine, "The Goddess is All That Is..." just sent a chill up my spine. I really think the movie was a great step forward for the depiction of Paganism all over the place, just like the book was.

Sylvan
November 22nd, 2003, 12:48 PM
New address for the article can be found here:
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/123/CFI/cfreport/index.htm
Letters to the editor regarding this article can be found here:
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/127/CFI/cfreport/index.htm
Article in response to the responses they got from Pagans can be found here:
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/141/CFI/cfreport/index.htm

Just to keep this updated.. :D

Phoenix Blue
November 22nd, 2003, 12:57 PM
Admin Mode

Bashing of any other faith, including Christianity, is not allowed here. The thread topic itself is perfectly acceptable, but the poll is not.

Obviously this thread was started quite some time ago :), but better late than never, I guess. I'll leave the thread itself open (though I'm going to move it to Entertainment), but the poll is now closed and the results are zeroed out.